Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Wii PlayStation (Games) XBox (Games)

The Latest From the Front in the Console Wars 284

Posted by Zonk
from the look-out-for-low-flying-sales-figures dept.
The October NPD numbers are out, and (now that we know we'll keep getting the information) it's time once again for analysis and reaction from media and businesses alike. GameDaily has a one year later look at the fight that began last holiday season. As for the numbers themselves, with Halo 3 now a known quantity in the market the 360 is down to 366,000 from 527,800 in September. Microsoft is still quite happy with software sales, though. The PS3 only saw 121,000 units sold last month, but early news from November has Sony very excited. And all the while, somehow, the Wii manages to sell even more units. The system is up to 519,000 from 501,000 in September, with the DS slight down to 458,000 from 495,800. As the GameDaily analysis article concludes: "the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win. The 2007 holiday buying season will be crucial to setting all three players' market positions going into next year. Which is all nice to know, of course, but not that important to actually enjoying your system of choice well into the future."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

The Latest From the Front in the Console Wars

Comments Filter:
  • Wiiiii! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Kenoli (934612)
    the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win

    I disagree.
    • Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by achilles777033 (1090811) on Friday November 16, 2007 @10:42AM (#21378523)
      Maybe. I tend to agree, but the article had a couple good points. if Wii owners don't keep buying games, did Nintendo really win? Also, Final Fantasy is likely to sell a lot of Playstations. Many FF fans are in the same category of rabid loyalty as Halo fans, and they'll shell out the green just to play the next one.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by nomadic (141991)
        if Wii owners don't keep buying games

        It would be very possible. I got a wii about 2 months ago and I've bought a single wii game since then. I want to buy more, I eagerly scan the videogame store shelf every week, but the games tend to be underwhelming at best.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Zelos (1050172)
          There's Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 out at the moment,both fantastic games, plus Zak&Wiki (in the US, 2008 EU). Personally, I've also bought and enjoyed (in order of decreasing greatness):

          Mario Strikers
          Excite Truck
          RE4:Wii
          Warioware
          Eledees
          Super Paper Mario

          and I'm looking forward to Super Smash Bros Brawl, Battalion Wars 2, Mario Kart Wii and maybe Resident Evil:UC.
        • Re:Wiiiii! (Score:4, Informative)

          by Mr_Silver (213637) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:53AM (#21379499)

          It would be very possible. I got a wii about 2 months ago and I've bought a single wii game since then. I want to buy more, I eagerly scan the videogame store shelf every week, but the games tend to be underwhelming at best.

          Count yourself lucky you have a Wii, I can't buy one in the UK for love nor money. The shops in London all get small batches which sell out on the day they come in.

          For games, check out the Wii section of Metacritic [metacritic.com]. If you stick with only the green rated games, you're looking at Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Resident Evil 4, Metroid and Zack & Wiki as 5 to start off with.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by moreati (119629)
            Try Amazon France, my parents got one from there quite easily. Similarly, people have posted about positive results ordering from Germany. The accute shortages appear to be UK only. Alex.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by antek9 (305362)
              Right on spot there. No-one buys the Wii over here in Germany, the shelves are always full, whenever I take a look. Seems like Nintendo keeps miscalculating their shipments. Or maybe they know something we don't, then again, what do I know?
        • by trdrstv (986999) on Friday November 16, 2007 @01:25PM (#21380747)

          if Wii owners don't keep buying games

          It would be very possible. I got a wii about 2 months ago and I've bought a single wii game since then. I want to buy more, I eagerly scan the videogame store shelf every week, but the games tend to be underwhelming at best.

          It's Ironic that Nintendo captured the casual market and yet there are very few games for them, they either fall under the "core-gamer category" (RE4, Metroid3, etc...) or the "Shovelware" (Too many to mention actually) category. I own a Wii with something like 15 Wii games, and 2 dozen VC games. I love it, and play it often. My parents enjoyed WiiSports so much they wanted one of their own for when they have company over. They are as "non-gamer" as can be, but are not opposed to buying games anymore as long as they appeal to them. To date they only have 3 games (WiiSports, WiiPlay, and Tiger Woods 08) and 1 VC game (PacMan). Occasionally I bring over Rayman RR, or Excitetruck and we play them a little, but that's it. They are both retired, have time and money available to them, but there is simply not a selection of games they find appealing.

          Nintendo is moving units to casual gamers, but they (and 3rd parties) need to recognize this largely untapped market and deliver some games they want to buy! Guitar Hero Helps, so does DDR, and Karaoke games, but what about SuDoKu, or NY Times Crossword puzzles...

        • I have, especially recently, found more good games to play than I have time to play them. Before that, I filled the (long) downtime between releases with the superb selection of Virtual Console games available. I have owned each Nintendo system aside from the Gamecube, but my tastes growing up are much different than they are now so I missed a few tried and true classics that the VC has given me an cheap and easy opportunity to catch up on. Until August, I would've understood the "no good games for the W
      • Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by orclevegam (940336) on Friday November 16, 2007 @10:51AM (#21378633) Journal
        Yes, Nintendo won even if people stop buying games for it. It's the third party developers that get screwed at that point. That being said I don't think that will be the case though. The Wii is in an adjustment period. The DS went through the same thing. Developers are still trying to adapt to the system and find out what does and does not work with it. When the DS first came out the only decent games were for the most part created by Nintendo with most of the third party games being mediocre. The Wii is going through the same thing now. Almost all the good games are by Nintendo with the third party items (for the most part) being decidedly mediocre. With luck however the developers will pull through and we'll start to see games from third parties soon every bit as polished and fun as Nintendo's own offerings.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by brkello (642429)
          Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one. Nintendo is moving consoles. The 360 is moving games. The PS3 has a bit to catch up but has superior hardware. Hopefully at some point I will own all 3 (but not until prices drop).
          • Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Insightful)

            by king-manic (409855) on Friday November 16, 2007 @12:48PM (#21380251)

            Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one. Nintendo is moving consoles. The 360 is moving games. The PS3 has a bit to catch up but has superior hardware. Hopefully at some point I will own all 3 (but not until prices drop).
            I'd really like to see a three way horse race. Consumers win with competition and we have a pretty fierce one right now. It'll mean cheaper systems and hopefully better quality systems. I have 2 of the 3 (PS3, Wii). I may pick up a 360 for mass effect. Right now each side seems to specialize in different games. I enjoy this and hope they keep it up.
          • Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one.

            I think you're talking about the difference between the battle and the war. Nintendo is looking to be the winner of this round, with Microsoft and Sony fighting over second and third place. Of course things may very well reverse with the next generation of consoles, after all Nintendo was a distant third in the previous generation with Sony the undisputed champion. By your criteria no companies besides Sega and Atari have ever lost (and maybe not even then, Sega is still in business and making games, just

      • by ByOhTek (1181381)
        But why would Wii owners stop buying games?

        Also, as an FF fan, I can say XIII will be the first FF I don't buy - Not worth spending the money on a PS3 for.
        • Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by tbannist (230135) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:12AM (#21378903)
          You've got it backwards. The majority of the Wii target audience aren't gamers, the proper question is "Why would they start buying games"?

          The "big games" are still all aimed at the PS3 and the 360 because that's where the gamers will end up. The Wii could end up moving the most hardware, but end up selling fewer games than the PS3 or the 360. That's the danger of selling your console to a very, very casual set of gamers who might never feel the need to buy another game for their console after they've found one they enjoy diddling with.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by stoolpigeon (454276) *
            I have quite a few friends who, like me, have young kids and haven't bought a console for quite a while, and they now have a wii. Their kids will keep them buying games. If game sales are soft now, it's not because wii owners are too 'casual' to want new games - it's because the game makers completely missed the boat on this platform and are still catching up.

            It is still hard to find a wii at stores. They are still going for way above retail at amazon. And that's not bundles. I don't think with
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by ByOhTek (1181381)
            Interesting. Admittedly a lot of Wii user are not hardcore gamers (but have many games targetting them, that they do buy), but there are a lot of gamers that buy Wiis also. Do you have numbers to back up your statement that most aren't gamers?

            (I can think of more gamers I know that have Wiis than have and/or want PS3s, and even more than want Wiis than those that want 360s/PS3s combined.

            I know a few non-gamers that want Wiis, none that want PS3s, and only a couple that want 360s.
            • I'm in that last boat.
              I generally am not a gamer, but I love Halo. I bought a 360 the other day just to play Halo3. $450 for a fscking video game... Geeze. On the bright side, I still don't have to consider more RAM, or the latest top end video card for my PC because I don't need it to support games there, so I suppose it's a wash.
              -nB
          • I hate to even post this because it could cause many "hard core" gamers and teenage boys that currently like the Wii to toss it in the trash.
            The Wii is still a big hit and is still the thing for Christmas this year. My wife is on several scrapbooking message boards. This of sort of like slashdot for moms. Guess what they are all trying to find for there kids this Christmas? It isn't the PS3. Now for the really bad news. The women on these boards love the Wii! Some of them are "test" playing it themselves
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Loosifur (954968)
            I don't know if I qualify as a hard-core gamer, whatever that is. I own a Cube, an Xbox, a PS2, a DS, a PC whose primary use is gaming, and I just got a Wii for my birthday a few months ago. I spend about $100 a month on games, maybe $750 on average for PC hardware. So that's where I'm coming from. I don't own any Halo t-shirts, though, so I'm not sure if I'd pass. That being said, I spend about three hours a day, more on weekends, playing video games. From this perspective, I gotta say the only console I w
            • Games aside, I could build a computer that did everything the PS3 does, hook up a controller to it, and have the exact same experience.

              How many controllers can you hook up to your PC with TV output? Sure, you can connect four through the USB hub, but too many PC games will read only one controller. This is because their multiplayer modes are designed for the LAN or Internet use case, in which each player has purchased his own PC and his own copy of the game. That doesn't work too well for households with multiple children or for family parties. So a family that already has one PC can buy a PS3 for $500, three extra SIXAXIS controllers f

          • by naoursla (99850)
            But Nintendo makes money on each Wii console sold. Even if they don't sell more games, they still got their cash. If each buyer of the 360/PS3 purchased no more games after the console then MS/Sony would be in trouble.
        • But why would Wii owners stop buying games?
          Because they are different people from those who traditionally bought consoles. I have bought about $15,000 in games, consoles, and accessories in the last 5 years. My sister who bought a wii and GF who wanted me to get a wii have yet to get another game aside from wii sports.
        • <i>But why would Wii owners stop buying games?</i>

          Easy: the games suck.

          No, seriously. The Wii is a gimmick system. Therefore, a few games are going to nail the gimmick, such as Metroid Prime, or Wii Sports. The rest are either bad ports of games on other systems that try to force the gimmick on you, or shitty "casual" games put out by people trying to crash the casual market, a-la 1983. The DS is in the same boat; a few winners, a shitload of losers, to the point where Electronic Gaming Monthly
      • Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by AKAImBatman (238306) <akaimbatman.gmail@com> on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:01AM (#21378755) Homepage Journal

        if Wii owners don't keep buying games, did Nintendo really win?

        Yes, actually. Because Nintendo made a profit on the Wii from Day #1. As other console manufacturers optimize their manufacturing costs to produce their consoles at a lower loss (or simply reduce the street price and take the same loss), Nintendo's profit margins simply grow as they optimize their processes. Thus Nintendo "wins" regardless.

        The real question is, what happens to the game producers? The argument exists that if the Wii wins, all we'll end up with is Mario and Wii Sports. To which I think it's important to turn around that argument and look at it from another angle. Nintendo currently has about 14 million consoles out there, and a shipped Wii is effectively a sold Wii. Thus the Wii presents a tremendous opportunity to game producers.

        This huge market payed $250 for Wii Sports. As a game producer, it then becomes your job to understand that market and produce more content for it. More to the point, it becomes the job of game producers to produce content that the market wants. Wii players are less likely to want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty 4. (Oh look, another military FPS! Who would have thought?) So stop trying to sell them the same games you've been selling teenage boys, and start doing some market research. Make games that are compelling to the casual market, and you will win.

        The best part? You don't even have to spend tens of millions on the game! A sizable sum of Wii players are attracted to casual games, which have far, far lower budgets than the so-called "triple-A" titles. Perhaps this generation could even see the downloadable game surpassing the sales of the traditional shrink-wrapped game. (If Nintendo ever gets off their butts and offers WiiWare games, that is. :P)
        • by AvitarX (172628)
          I got the Wii because it was cheap enough and appealing enough for me to convince my wife ti was worth buying. I would love Assasin's Creed and COD4, and would buy the first on day one (assuming of course it plays well, and isn't gimped in gamplay (lower graphics are fine). I don't know if it is possibly to match gameplay depth from 360 to Wii, especially for a sanbox style game, but if it were I would be all-over it.

          There has to be a lot of one gamer families that got a Wii (of course maybe 360 is cheap
        • Wii players are less likely to want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty 4. (Oh look, another military FPS! Who would have thought?) So stop trying to sell them the same games you've been selling teenage boys, and start doing some market research. Make games that are compelling to the casual market, and you will win.

          Actually that's not even entirely true. One of my favorite games so far has been Metroid Prime 3, which is arguably yet another FPS. The big difference however is that it isn't a retooled and hastily assembled port of some existing FPS, but rather one that was built from the ground up to work well with the control scheme of the Wii. Customers want a game that has a decent design, but more importantly one that respects and understands the controls the Wii can provide. As a counter example look at Lair for

        • Nintendo is in a very good position right now, but if you ask me, they already need to be looking to the next console/upgrade. Both Sony and Microsoft are looking to make this console generation a long one, and consumers will probably expect it with the kind of investment they made in a console. Nintendo, however, is in a position where they could reasonably offer some kind of incremental upgrade to the Wii in a few years (not to mention adding say, colors and DVD support). A backwards-compatible Wii2 co

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Ang31us (1132361)
            I agree that for you and me the friend code idea sucks ass, but I think I see where Nintendo is coming from.

            Historically, Nintendo has marketed their systems to kids (including me; I'm just a big 30-year old kid). Think about all of the trouble that MySpace, Facebook, and others get from the media and government when a child predator gets his hands on a minor. My sense is that Nintendo would prefer to avoid even 1 story about a pedophile using the Wii to prey on children, even if it means not treating t
            • Part of me thinks that if parents are really so worried about children's access to the internet like that, then there should just be no E-rated games that have online support (as fun as Mario Kart DS is). I don't quite understand the fervor over this. To date myself (as fairly recent), I was playing games on Battle.net when I was a kid, and I don't remember any public outcry against it. Same for Xbox Live.

              Are stupid stories like Nintendo DS predators or the "Playstation Pornable" just artifacts of recen

              • by edwdig (47888)
                Why isn't there, for example, multiplayer (even local) support anywhere in the Metroid Prime series? Even something of mediocre quality where powerups for Samus are scattered around a map seems like it would be pretty trivial to throw together.

                They did that in Metroid Prime 2, largely due to the rather vocal "It's an FPS and I won't play an FPS without multiplayer" crowd. The people that used lack of multiplayer as their excuse for not playing still didn't like the game, as the single player nothing like an
      • by yanos (633109)
        I'm not so sure about the effect of FF will have on PS3. Sure, it will sell alot of hardware for sony, but I remember square annoncing that there will be multiple versions of FF13 for nearly all platforms. The main or 'real' FF13 is still exclusive to the PS3, but if you also have multiple spin off on the wii, xbox and even ds (if I remember well), the effect it will have on sony hardware sale will not be as important as in the past generation, IMO.

        There is still Metal Gear solid though...
        • Not entirely certain about the Wii, but I know the DS version is based on the Crystal Chronicles FF universe as opposed to the more traditional FF games. Some people hated Crystal Chronicles, but I and several of my friends really enjoyed it, so I'm looking forward to the new versions for the Wii and DS (I know there's a Wii version of it planned, but not sure if any of the more traditional FF games such as XIII will be released for it).
        • I'm not so sure about the effect of FF will have on PS3. Sure, it will sell alot of hardware for sony, but I remember square annoncing that there will be multiple versions of FF13 for nearly all platforms. The main or 'real' FF13 is still exclusive to the PS3, but if you also have multiple spin off on the wii, xbox and even ds (if I remember well), the effect it will have on sony hardware sale will not be as important as in the past generation, IMO.

          There is still Metal Gear solid though.../quote>

          Ever play any of the mainline spin offs of FF (FFX-2).. yeah.... I doubt that has any impact. People buy the mainline. Spin offs cash in but aren't the same.

      • by Altus (1034)

        From what I understand (and I could be mistaken) Nintendo actually makes money on the Wii hardware. So yea, they probably make out pretty well regardless.

        If more companies would start making good games for the huge Nintendo install base I think you would see more games being purchased. I think there is a lot of money to be made on the Wii both in traditional games and in cheaper, smaller games. I'm a big fan of Wii sports but I would probably pay 20-30 bucks each for a more fully fleshed out version of e
    • by gravis777 (123605)
      I am waiting to see the November sales figures. Sony has really been pulling out the advertising lately, has had a couple of kick-ass system exclusives, and had a huge price drop (at the cost of loosing backwards combatability). I am really interested to see how Sony's plan worked out.

      And its amazing that over a year after the introduction, people still wait in lines to get Wii's. I just happened to go to the store on the right day and got mine..
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by usul294 (1163169)
      Exactly, has anyone played Mario galaxy? Point-set-match. Owning both Halo 3 and Galaxy, Galaxy is by far a superior game. Halo 3 is great, but is a stepped up Halo 2, and doesn't try to do anything new, I played it every night when it first came out, but now its down to a night per week or so, which is how much I was playing Halo 2 when Halo 3 came out. Anyways, Wii also has the fantastic quality of having a buzz about how cool it is. What does this mean? Its a magnet for getting girls to come to my dorm r
      • by Pojut (1027544)
        I can understand why you might like Galaxy more than Halo 3, but can you really say it's a better game the way that you are?

        Halo is a sci-fi first person shoot everything game. Galaxy is a time your jump find all the stars while doing fun acrobatic movements game.

        Two very VERY different games.
        • by GreyyGuy (91753)
          Two different games, but people are still playing the original Super Mario Brothers games that are nearly 20 years old. Because they are fun. Do you see people playing Halo 3 in 20 years?

          That is what makes a better game.
          • by Pojut (1027544)
            No, that is what makes a longer lasting game...case in point, people still love Grease...does that mean it is a better movie than Children of Men?

            Exactly. You can't make that comparison.
            • by tilandal (1004811)
              People still Like Beethoven, does that make him a better artist then Justin Timberlake? I contend it does.
              • by Pojut (1027544)
                Some people still like Hitler...does that make him better than Stalin?
              • People still Like Beethoven, does that make him a better artist then Justin Timberlake? I contend it does.

                More people are into Timberlake then Beethoven. Does that mean anything? I think Pachabels Cannons is the most perfect song in all existence but sometimes I need to put on some NIN. They're different beasts, both have qualities and values and while we may not play Closer 500 years from now it is still a good song. Cannons and Closer both capture a portion of what it is to be human. Even the syrupy love songs by bland generic pop stars have some value.

                The thing about people playing Super Mario, it's nostalg

            • by GreyyGuy (91753)
              Hmm... let's see.

              Grease: movie adoptation of a musical that inspired multiple movies and stage revivals over decades, has sold strong for decades in multiple video and audio formats, nominated for multiple awards including an Oscar. According to IMDB, cost approximately $6M. Grossed $181M in the US for the 20th anniversary re-release, with $93M in rentals.

              Children of Men: a movie adoptation of a book. No sequels to the book or movie. Nominated for many more awards (though in the interest of fairness, there
          • Possibly, because of Forge and Multiplayer.

            Hell, people still play counterstrike. It's not that unlikely that Halo will last forever.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by trdrstv (986999)

      the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win

      I disagree.

      Why is this modded Troll? Since the Wii has sold the most systems worldwide in this generation (IE: more than the PS3 and 360), and it continues to outsell their competitors by a considerable margin every month (they were only slightly beat out during the Halo 3 launch) wouldn't it be appropriate to say the race is "Nintendo's to lose" ?

      • by Toonol (1057698)
        I questioned that statement, also. I mean, this is far _less_ even than anybody would have imagined. This sales this generation will end with (1) Wii (2) 360 (3) PS3. The only real drama is whether the PS3 can scrape into 2nd place ahead of the 360.

        Coupled with the fact that the Wii is more profitable than the other two consoles, it's a done deal. Nintendo's won this round.

    • IBM (Score:5, Insightful)

      by flymolo (28723) <flymolo AT gmail DOT com> on Friday November 16, 2007 @12:28PM (#21379969)
      I think the biggest winner in this console war is IBM. They make the chips for all three consoles. With the pretty competitive market they are selling a lot of CPU, and getting handed a lot of research dollars for die shrinks. I also think this market which is a win for IBM and a loss for attach rate.
  • by ironwill96 (736883) on Friday November 16, 2007 @10:49AM (#21378593) Homepage Journal
    I got a hold of a Wii from a friend for "long-term" borrowing pretty early on after launch and kept it for about 5 months. Initially I had a ton of fun playing Wii Sports just about every night, I even rented games like Red Steel and Wario etc to try out the software for the system. I was unimpressed in general with the types of games they were putting out on the system, just like when I owned a Gamecube and only loved Rogue Squadron and Eternal Darkness for it. Not being a huge modern metroid game fan, and finding that I was unimpressed with Zelda on the Wii, I eventually passed the console back to my friend and went back to playing my 360 / PC.

    I guess it all boils down to the type of software made for a particular system, but the article's analysis of software attach rate was interesting in that the Wii's is so low. I do continue to buy games for my 360 even 2 years later (Gears of War, PGR 4, Halo 3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, AC etc) yet nothing but Mario would interest me on the Wii right now. Many of my friends have the same opinions and the initial fad of playing Wii sports has worn off. Plus, its pretty bad that the most popular game on your system is the one you give away for free with the system (yes, everyone has it so they likely try it, but still, in my experience it was by far the most fun to be had on the Wii at least through when I gave the console back to my friend).
    • by ThirdPrize (938147) on Friday November 16, 2007 @10:55AM (#21378695) Homepage
      Yeah, I can imagine the multi player Wii experience is fun but what about single player? What about when you have had a hard day at work and just want to crash out and play something for a bit? I think I would feel a bit silly doing the whole Wii thing by myself and sometimes you just can't be arsed to jump around.
      • by The-Bus (138060)
        You don't need to jump around. I've played Wii Sports lying down. It's a bit less fun, but you still play.

        I've got a limited number of TV inputs, and the Wii recently lost out to my original Xbox, because I wanted to play RalliSport Challenge 2. It's a fun system, but there's not a lot of software out that's great out there. If its titles were all $20, I'd buy more of them (as I did with the DS).

        I do want to try Super Mario Galaxy as well as Zack and Wiki.
    • by aztektum (170569)
      Wait, it actually sold MORE last month than the month before. That's a sign of a dying fad?

      I eventually passed the console back to my friend and went back to playing my 360 / PC.
      Ah, see perhaps it's more "The Wii isn't my style." than it being a fad that is losing popularity.
    • by GreyyGuy (91753) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:16AM (#21378975)
      I bought into the idea of the Wii being a "passing fad" for a little while. After all everyone was saying it, and the fact that Nintendo didn't have some huge ramped up production set to crank the consoles out like candy seems to imply they were not sold on it either.

      Now, a year after launch and the consoles are still selling off the store shelves in hours. I know some fads can be long, but a year? If it was a fad, and everyone got bored with it quickly, wouldn't there be a huge used market for them? I know they can be found on eBay and everywhere else, but not in huge quantities that a fad would imply.

      I think that a lot of the "hardcore" gamers don't like the changes in gameplay that the Wii has. It isn't familiar to them, or they are offended that there are not more twitch FPS or RTS games for the Wii so it "obviously" isn't geared towards them. Instead people that were turned off by the twitch games are picking it up and enjoying it.

      So it might be a fad for people that camp out overnight to get the latest and greatest consoles, but it is a hit with people that want to have some fun with a game and not just have the latest game to beat, or who want to play who has the bigger... frame rate.
      • by king-manic (409855) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:48AM (#21379413)

        I think that a lot of the "hardcore" gamers don't like the changes in gameplay that the Wii has. It isn't familiar to them, or they are offended that there are not more twitch FPS or RTS games for the Wii so it "obviously" isn't geared towards them. Instead people that were turned off by the twitch games are picking it up and enjoying it.
        I think you got it flipped. Hardcore gamers are all too familiar with the games as they aren't all that new, just old games repackaged for the wii mote. You can't tell me anything in Rayman hasn't been done in numerous arcades and other machines. Ditto with the majority of the rest of the library. They use the wii mote either as a really clumsy mouse, a sort of slow light gun, replace button mashing with vigorous shaking etc.. Some do it better then others but it isn't all that new. The under lying game play is old, as old as gaming. Thats what we object to the shallowness and sense of deja vu. I have a wii but I buy games for the DS and PS3 at a 3:1 rate to the wii (3 DS and 3 PS3 to 1 wii) games because there aren't that many games to appeal to me. Maybe fire emblem.
        • by Nevyn (5505) * on Friday November 16, 2007 @12:04PM (#21379649) Homepage Journal

          Hardcore gamers are all too familiar with the games as they aren't all that new, just old games repackaged for the wii mote.

          I could say the same thing about every game available on every other platform, but replace controls with slightly better graphics. And while the Wii type controls have been available in specialized arcade games, this is the first usable play at home system. So personally I've spent more on Wii disk games than any other console, maybe more on Wii VC games (I kind of dread to add that up), and I fully expected to reward Nintendo for wanting to produce a good games console instead of a good number crunching machine.

          I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have it's faults, but to pretend all the "hardcore" gamers have your opinion of it is just wishful thinking on your part. I'll be much happier if both the Xbox-360 and PS3 die horribly in the marketplace, as then we might actually get quality games and innovation in the next gen. instead of "Ohh, we have X% more polys for Y% more $".

          • I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have it's faults, but to pretend all the "hardcore" gamers have your opinion of it is just wishful thinking on your part. I'll be much happier if both the Xbox-360 and PS3 die horribly in the marketplace, as then we might actually get quality games and innovation in the next gen. instead of "Ohh, we have X% more polys for Y% more $".

            I'd prefer if all 3 have a good solid run. Monopolies are never good for gamers. I think a game like katamari damacy is much more innovative then wario ware, mario party, Zelda:TP, Metroid 3. That game exists on the360 and PS2. So your sort of got a skewed view of innovation. The Wii has potential but even the first party titles aren't tapping into it that much.

        • by GreyyGuy (91753)
          You are right. There have never been FPS games or RTS games like ones on the PS3.

          Come on.

          And I believe the rate of game purchase, but at the same time will point out that the PS3 has huge 3rd party contributors while the Wii does not. I would even bet that the rate of new games is probably close to 3 to 1 for PS3 to Wii. That should be changing next year as more games are released for the Wii after the developers realized they missed the boat on the popularity of it.
          • You are right. There have never been FPS games or RTS games like ones on the PS3.

            Come on.

            And I believe the rate of game purchase, but at the same time will point out that the PS3 has huge 3rd party contributors while the Wii does not. I would even bet that the rate of new games is probably close to 3 to 1 for PS3 to Wii. That should be changing next year as more games are released for the Wii after the developers realized they missed the boat on the popularity of it.

            Tell me what was the last movie you really enjoyed. Now tell me how innovative it was. Chances are it's basically the same story as a dozen other movies but just done well. Tell me the last experimental college film you really enjoyed? Innovation is often fun when it's small and incremental and followed by a lot of polish. Innovation itself does not induce fun and innovation is often terrible. Lair did have a innovative control system but done really poorly.

            A game like assassins creed is innovative in a nu

        • by Kabuthunk (972557)
          As opposed to first-person shooters, which are TOTALLY new and not copying anything from previous games.
    • Just sold mine (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Fross (83754)
      The market is good so I just sold my Wii to fund a PC upgrade. Why? I'm afraid it's a boring reason - I'm just not a console player, when I want to game, I want to play on the PC. Just couldn't get comfortable gaming on the sofa on the TV.

      I have to say the Wii is the most varied and interesting console playing experience I've come across. It has games that focus on the wiimote, some of them are good, a lot of them are gimmicky. People who only play those, are going to be disappointed eventually. But i
      • Zelda might have done better if it was actually designed with the Wii in mind instead of just shoehorning Wii controls onto a game developed for the Gamecube.

        Irritatingly, the Gamecube version of the game kept the redesigned item menu instead of using a menu that actually works well on a controller.
    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by zerOnIne (128186)
      Wait -- you actually liked Rogue Squadron? I found the thing to be inscrutable. Bad design left and right. Mind you, I'm not a Star Wars fan by any stretch, so I couldn't fill in all the plot and motivation that they assumed I knew. But even so, I found it to be just an awful game.
      • by Zelos (1050172)
        Agreed, it was a pretty crappy game. The Hoth level was good, after that it all went downhill and I gave up in boredom.
        • by zerOnIne (128186)
          I didn't even get to Hoth. Not that I even know where Hoth is in the universe. I didn't even realize that I was playing as Luke Skywalker until I figured out all of the "LUKE! DO THIS THING HERE NOW!" type comments were actually being directed at me.

          I gave up after getting creamed in the deathstar trench a few times.
    • by ProppaT (557551)

      You continue to buy FPS games for your 360 two years later. Is that because you mainly like FPS games or because that's mainly what the 360 has to offer?

      I've enjoyed my Wii, but agree there's still a lack of games. Outside of Wii Sports, Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and RE4 I still haven't found much to be interested in. I also own a 360 and outside of Live Arcade, Dead Rising, and assorted other games I still haven't found much to be interested in with it either (not a FPS fan in the least). Each system seem
    • by Torodung (31985)
      Interesting, and maybe it is just a fad, but I think you're mistaken on one point. It doesn't all boil down to software. It boils down to total market penetration, and specifically one good exclusive title that makes everyone buy your system. If that game is the freebie that comes with the console, you're going to get amazing market penetration, even if that game only has faddish appeal. Wii Sports has only faddish appeal, but it gets the console everywhere, fast, and that will bring good software eventuall
      • There is a big difference between focusing on children, and simply NOT focusing on adults. (Or more specifically, adolescents who care that they look 'adult') Zelda and Mario are not childrens games. They're just games.

        I'd say the same thing about Pixar movies. Calling them childrens movies simply isn't accurate.
    • by Ang31us (1132361) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:53AM (#21379507) Homepage
      I bought the Wii on launch day and after a few months of Wii Sports and Zelda, I started to fear the same thing -- that it was a gimmick or passing fad that would fade over time.

      Then Resident Evil and Madden came out and suddenly I was aiming my screen to shoot Ganados, throwing lobs and zip passes with my right hand, swatting balls out of the air with my hands, pulling interceptions down with my hands, and putting big hits on runners using my arms...and those were just the first attempts by third parties to integrate motion control into "normal" games.

      I no longer fear that the Wii's motion control is a passing fad or gimmick. I think it's here to stay and be improved on in the next-generation consoles.
    • by HalAtWork (926717) on Friday November 16, 2007 @12:30PM (#21379999)
      How can you call Wii a passing fad when the PS3 and XBox 360 both are just rehashing genres and quickly porting games that were available or in development on PS2 and XBox? How can you call Wii a passing fad, when even on other consoles, a game that requires a gimmicky controller and that doesn't have the greatest graphics is catching on like wildfire (Guitar Hero III, soon Rock Band)?
       
      I used to be the kind of person to upgrade my PC every other month just because I wanted the latest in graphics and processing, but after a while (it took me 2 or 3 years :P) I realized it wasn't worth it just to be playing the same exact games with slightly better graphics. I wanted more than FPS, RTS, and MMORPG. At the time, consoles were providing much better games, and plus, the FPS/RTS/MMORPGs were starting to get good on consoles so if ever I got a craving, there were options.
       
      Now it's kind of the same thing but with Wii vs other consoles... I could keep upgrading (and I did buy a PS3 and 360 as well, so I wouldn't miss out on anything) but I just have more fun playing different and more innovative games on the Wii.
       
      I've got over 22 games on the Wii now and a scant 3 on PS3 (VF5, R&C:F, Darkness) and 3 on 360 (Katamari, Halo 3, Bioshock). On the Wii I still go back and play Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, Trauma Center, Super Monkey Ball, I still even play SSB:M, and still play Wii Sports and of couse now am very into Mario Galaxy.
       
      See, there ARE gamers that just want to play the same games over and over with slightly better graphics, but they're obsessed with a few genres that they simply want to play in a perfect form because that's what really appeals to them. However, most other gamers want a wide variety of experiences and don't really care to play the same couple of games re-made and perfected over time while paying a ton of cash for new console versions or new game versions.
       
      This is in fact what would even draw your average person into games, a wide variety of easily accessible yet deep experiences. With games like Excite Truck or Mario Galaxy or Trauma Center, or Monkey Ball, gamers can have casual fun with it yet they can also choose to get as deep as they want into the game perfecting their ability to play it and discovering the nuances and strategies, but they don't have to, and they can just have casual fun with them as well.
       
      I think that games that keep getting re-made and obsess on a few tiny details and aren't genre-bending or genre-evolving are the fads, and you can tell by the amount of clones that keep popping up to cash in until the genres ram into the ground.
       
      Halo 3 is fun but Halo 2 was just as fun. R&C:F is fun, but so were the first 3 games. On the Wii I'm seeing a lot more new stuff that keeps me hooked. Other systems just don't hold my interest.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by MikeBabcock (65886)
        Okay, I'll bite, besides the input method (power gloves, light pens, etc. have been around a long time), what's so innovative about Wii games in general?

        Very few games are innovative. Super Monkey Ball was innovative for example, but Super Mario was essentially the same concept as lode runner if you think about it. Qbert may quality as innovative. The first light-gun game (duck hunt?) may have been innovative.

        I don't expect innovative games, I expect long-term fun and engaging games. When I bought Ratch
    • Gaming nerds have been saying that for a long time, but the systems are still selling in increasing numbers, so I'm not going to write off Wii based on the claims of gaming nerds.

      One problem is that you're probably not the target market. People that aren't in a target market are too quick to write off something that's not for them, because they have this fallacy that they themselves represent the typical buyer for the product.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by hawkbug (94280)
      You need to try Super Mario Galaxy and Super Paper Mario. Both those games don't use the Wiimote is a bad way like a lot of other crappy wii ports at this point, such as Transformers the Movie. I consider that game unplayable on the Wii. I've played it on the PS2, 360, and the Wii - and the Wii version is horrendous.

      Back to the Mario franchise - they came out swinging with these games. They are amazing. Also, Mario Strikers Charged. The game play is a blast on all of these and the graphics are great for
  • by sayfawa (1099071) on Friday November 16, 2007 @10:50AM (#21378611)
    I've heard (possibly here on /.) that the only reason PS3 sales went up around the time of the launch of the 40GB was that people were snatching up the more expensive 80GB before it and it's backwards compatibility with PS2 disappeared. Meanwhile, my kid asked for a PS2 for christmas.
  • Wii (Score:3, Interesting)

    by webmaster404 (1148909) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:04AM (#21378801)
    I expect that the Wii will continue to win, it shows Nintendo's domination strategy. First there are exclusive games made my Nintendo that are very very popular such as Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem and Star Fox that will only be available on the Wii or other Nintendo consoles. Sony has Square, however usually will port the games to Wii and 360 also later in the console's life. The 360 has Halo and.. not much else, most of the people that I have talked to bought a 360 for Halo and Halo only. The Wii manages to have some good games for it, Galaxy, Paper Mario and Zelda are all good and exclusive titles, but as with the DS, we only have to wait a few years and after all the "tech-demos" of new controls you get very solid games. Sure Nintendo's systems don't have an absolutely huge quantity of games for them, but those that are made for it have very high quality (sports games aside) and don't have the flaws that the other systems had. For example, Tales of Symphonia for the Gamecube was much better then the Tales games on the PS1-2 because Nintendo desinged the hardware so you wouldn't get loading screen after loading screen like on the PS2. In the end, Nintendo is more popular, you only have to look at how almost every store has a PS3 and 360 but very few have the Wii in stock and sometimes even Wii point cards are sold out! The Wii will win the "console war" the way that Nintendo always has, good quality, exclusive games.
  • They obviously don't make console wars like this any more:

    http://advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=10303 [advancedmn.com]

    Politics, idiocy, CEOs engaging in childish name calling, censorship, back firing strategies....

    Mod me down for being slightly off topic, but know this: I am right to wallow in nostalgia.

  • Dated thinking (Score:4, Insightful)

    by njfuzzy (734116) <.moc.x-nai. .ta. .nai.> on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:27AM (#21379135) Homepage
    I really think that the whole idea of a console war is dated.

    There was a time when this was an issue. When disposable incomes were lower. When gaming was mostly for kids. When there weren't multiple demographics interested in different kinds of gaming. When a console wasn't also an Internet device and a media (music and movies) device as well.

    Now, the game has changed. There is room for an inexpensive console with novelty appeal, health-conscious appeal, and appeal to kids-- and still room for a midrange console with testosterone games for the fratboy crowd-- and still room for a high-end machine with a scary sticker price but very impressive graphics, a blu-ray player, and the occasional hit exclusive game.
  • by LKM (227954) on Friday November 16, 2007 @11:36AM (#21379243) Homepage
    What's more, Nintendo has increased Wii production to currently 1.8 million per month. [kotaku.com]

    That's 21.6 million per year, or over 100 million in just 5 years. If they keep this up, they might even catch up with the PS2!
  • by MorePower (581188) on Friday November 16, 2007 @12:15PM (#21379795)

    What I want to know is, when the hell is someone going to make the sword/lightsaber game for the Wii that we've all been waiting for. This comes up every now and then and the apologists all jump out and say "Errors in the motion sensors add up so you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movements, blah, blah, blah."

    Which is all a bunch of BS. OK you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movement with perfectly free movement of the sword, but you don't need to! I've already seen "good enough" control to make the sword/lightsaber game possible!

    Go load up Wii Sports. Choose Baseball for 2 players (so you can play around without a pitch coming). Grab the control for the batter and tip/twirl the Wiimote around over your shoulder. Notice how the Mii tips/twirls the bat just like you? Now, just change it from a bat to a sword, move it from over-the-shoulder to waist level in front of the player, and put the camera behind the Mii (KOTOR style). There, you just made the greatest sword game ever without even doing anything clever.

    And of course there's bound to be lots of clever stuff you can figure out like motion capturing a bunch of kids playing with fake swords (with wiimotes embedded) so you can map the wiimote acceleration profiles to expected real life movements. Or correcting for the small integration errors whenever the wiimote happens to swing past the sensor bar. That's just icing on the cake that makes the control even closer to what's expected.

    Yeah the control will never be exactly 1 to 1. Olympic fencers will be pissed off that they can't get the millimeter perfect movements they use. Everyone else will be wildly flailing their swords with big broad movements so as long a the sword goes left when they swing left it will be fine. The players' hand/eye coordination will adjust to what the game will actually do. Players already adjust to controls that are much less intuitive/realistic. Just throw in a few easy "whack the pinata" levels at the beginning and I bet people will subconsciously adjust themselves in no time.

    • What I want to know is, when the hell is someone going to make the sword/lightsaber game for the Wii that we've all been waiting for. This comes up every now and then and the apologists all jump out and say "Errors in the motion sensors add up so you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movements, blah, blah, blah."
      Red Steel, launch title almost. But it was terrible.
  • A long-time gamer household, we have a 360 and a Wii (and a bunch of older systems). We have three Wii titles (including the one that came with the box) and it hasn't been turned on in months. The 360 gets daily use, and we have about 20 titles.

    A friend of mine, also a 360 owner, just bought a Wii. I'll be interested to see how long the system remains active, and how many titles he buys.

    • by Rayonic (462789)

      A friend of mine, also a 360 owner, just bought a Wii. I'll be interested to see how long the system remains active, and how many titles he buys.

      More importantly, how many of the Wii games that he buys are Nintendo titles? 3rd party publishers are getting the impression that people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, and that's that.
  • One happy camper (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Joker1980 (891225)
    Im not really interested in the numbers of it, all i know is that for the first time in a long time im utterly spoiled for choice. im currently muddling through, the witcher (PC), gears of wars (pc), Assasins creed (360), Halo 3 (360), Metroid and Mario for the Wii to name a few. With Mass effect and unreal tournament 3 coming soon and a whole host of 2008 titles (such as GTA), i for one am an extremly happy camper.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Working...