Xbox DRM and the Red Ring of Death 147
manekineko2 writes "In the latest case warning of the perils of investing in DRM'd media, an owner of an Xbox 360 reports that after his Xbox suffered the infamous Red Ring of Death, it was replaced by a new system with a different serial number. Upon receiving his replacement, he found that he could only access the media he had purchased from a specific account. He also received the run-around for months from customer service before his case was escalated, only to be informed that there is no ETA for a resolution, there is no way to receive status updates on the process, and there is no compensation that will be granted. Given claims that the Xbox 360 defect rate is as high as 1 in 3, has anyone on Slashdot gone through this as well after getting their system exchanged?" Update: 02/14 17:11 GMT by Z : An emailing user noted that the original summary was not very accurate; rephrased to be more in-line with the situation.
Ummm (Score:5, Informative)
After that they'll run fine not logged in on the 360, or on other 360s logged in with the original account.
Its a pain in the ass -- I've had to do it twice, but its not nearly how the story makes it sound.
Moral of the story: (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Informative)
After that they'll run fine not logged in on the 360, or on other 360s logged in with the original account.
Its a pain in the ass -- I've had to do it twice, but its not nearly how the story makes it sound.
Summary inaccurate... (Score:3, Informative)
Uh... no... RTFA...
I'm not saying it's not a problem... it is... You get the same situation if you try to upgrade to an Elite or a unit with HDMI as well (and MS doesn't reimburse you points for that) But you're not 100% cut off from your media (You just have to be logged in...all the time... like even during XBox Live downtimes...).
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Informative)
I don't have a 360 myself, so I'm not familiar with how the XBox Live system works, but I can't imagine why the support techs can't simply re-activate this gentleman's games. I've never run across an online marketplace that doesn't include some provision for restoring purchased content that the buyer can prove he purchased (and he clearly can, as the MS/XBox reps apparently had access to his entire Live purchasing history.)
Can anyone else confirm or deny that the program is still in operation, or that MS/XBox support has come up with some means of restoring content to owners of malfunctioning consoles?
Re:OR, just keep your silver account. (Score:5, Informative)
So he didn't lose his content at all. He access it using the original purchasing profile while signed into XBox Live. I do realize that this is not perfect, but it's also far from inaccessible.
Personally, I only use one profile that automatically signs into XBL, so the only time this would affect would be when my internet is out. Granted, that's not how it works for every user, but I would guess that this is how it works for most of them. It could use some fixing, but in the meantime it's usable.
All MS really needs to do is come up with some way to import the console specific settings during the replacement process. They'be been pretty good about releasing updates to the console as well as the games, and if this is a widespread problem I'm sure it will get addressed. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.
The good news though is that maybe this will spur them to create an import process for the next console. Afterall, they'll probably have a torch carrying mob storming Redmond if you can't play the content you downloaded onto your 360 on the next-gen MS console.
Re:Moral of the story: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Informative)
This didn't happen to me (Score:5, Informative)
1.) Red ring of death (fuck you, Microsoft).
2.) TAKE HARD DRIVE OFF CONSOLE. Send in console for repair.
3.) Get different console with different serial number back. Place hard drive on it.
4.) Console wants to verify my Live account online. Go for it.
5.) All content accessible.
So I'm not really sure what happened to this guy.
My experience differs (Score:5, Informative)
The second time it happened I got one of the new Falcon chipset 360s with HDMI which is a great thing for me in the first place as my monitor wont do 1080p over analog VGA so I finally got the option to run at 1080p with this new console. They also now have a set procedure for porting ownership of content to a new console and have done for a fair while whereby you merely submit your new console ID and a scan/fax of the replacement receipt from the retailer and they'll port the content ownership to the new system. Again, I was given a free 2100 points, not as much as last time but still something.
So the second time I got a sweet new V2 console and both times I got nice fresh new controllers and headsets which is a bonus as those type of things get a bit worn and tatty after a while anyway.
Should the system fail? Well of course not, but to suggest the process with dealing with faulty consoles is a big deal I think is a bit silly, having known 2 other people with RROD'd 360s who have also had similar experiences to me in that it's been quick and easy. Of course people have bad support experiences, personally I'd never purchase from Dell ever again as the result of such an experience but with bad support experiences on the net it's very easy to bend the truth a little, as I say what strikes me as odd is my last console was dealt with about 3 months ago and when I called support they were well aware of the issue and also the set procedure I mentioned they now have for dealing with DRM moves (rather than the previous aformentioned method of granting you points to rebuy on a new account to re-tie the games to a new console).
Besides, I'm not sure why this is news, the V2 consoles have been out ages now so the RROD whine is rather obsolete and I'm rather suprised to see last years whine making headlines again, aren't we supposed to be laughing at MS about how HD-DVD failed or something instead now?
Don't get me wrong, no DRM at all would be the best solution but let's face it, how many people would just copy games onto memory cards and pass round to their mates? Hell, you can even get memory card/360 hard drive to USB adapters so likely people would just grab them off bittorrent! I'm against DRM on a PC because it's a failed concept but on a console I see it as part of the package and in a way, one of the main tools consoles have for defeating cheating that is a major issue in online PC gaming.
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Informative)
They didn't do that for us. When we got our 360 back from repairs and the content wouldn't play on the other accounts, I called and was told that the purchased content was meant for the account that purchased it and not the others, and the fact that it worked to start doesn't mean that it will always work that way into the future. I was mostly peeved because I was trying to see how many achievements I could unlock in a single round on XBLA games.
I get the feeling that depending on who you happen to talk to at support, you get different stories of how things work. When our 360 originally red-ring'd, we were told that it wouldn't be covered under warranty (we got a Rev-B 360, about a month or two after it was first released), but the unit still worked on and off... it would just occasionally not start up. After MS extended the warranty to a year, we were able to send it in and get it replaced. Although a friend of mine's unit red-ringed a couple days after ours and his got replaced, no questions asked. His also came back in about 8 days, where ours took 3 weeks.
Re:Ummm, not quite (Score:5, Informative)
It's no longer "policy" by Microsoft to give you MS points to cover the DLC you can't use any more.
Apparently, according to comments on the Consumerist article, they stopped doing that sometime in October or November last year.
I think that's reprehensible.
Re:Moral of the story: (Score:3, Informative)
So if you bought downloadable content from the Microsoft XBox Marketplace before the DRM upgrade, you did actually buy DRM-free content. The DRM was applied on it after-the-fact.
Re:This didn't happen to me (Score:2, Informative)
Something's seriously wrong with this story (Score:3, Informative)
According to the article, this happened recently (Feb 2008). However Microsoft has had a solution for DRM problems on consoles replaced through warranty repair since May or June of 2007. I don't think they publicize it like they should, but the last time I went through repair was June and the process was brand new so maybe they do better now.
Anyway, it works like this:
- Your Xbox 360 breaks. You call support, schedule a repair, and send it in. KEEP YOUR HARD DRIVE (though this only matters if you care about your save games)
- You receive your replacement console 1-3 weeks later.
- You drill down in your account information off of the Marketplace blade to find your Download History.
- You go through your download history, re-downloading each DRM-protected piece of content you wish to be able to use offline on your new console.
- The downloads go extremely quickly, because you kept your hard drive. You're not actually re-downloading the whole content (that would suck for a 6GB Xbox Original game, for example). Instead, you're just downloading a new key that will sign the content to the new console ID.
As of right now, this process is only available if you go through the official Microsoft repair process (in warranty, or for $100 out of warranty). If you use a store replacement warranty, take advantage of a store's lenient return policy like CostCo used to have, or replace the console yourself (because you want to upgrade, or you hacked your console and it won't make it through official repairs), you're screwed. The rekeying process requires manual intervention to invalidate the old console ID and set up the content to retrieve a new key when you download it again.Yes, it's a rather tedious process and it would be great if there was a "Download all premium content again" option to make it go quicker, but that's beside the point. The only value to this article is to show that customer support agents can suck. But we all knew that already, right?
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Informative)
hardware key, trumping Live authentication. But if Live is down, you're fucked
if all you have is the original account. I know. I upgraded to an Elite.
Absolutely no extra content with a price tag works, and none of the non-free
XBLA games play anything but trial mode until I log on to Live.
What's worse is that your downloaded content for games now becomes unavailable
to all the other accounts on the same box. The mere presence of the purchasing
account does not help, whether you're online or not. If you want to bring the
console down to the pub for some Rock Band fun, you can't unless they have
'net access.
Re:OR, just keep your silver account. (Score:5, Informative)
Say you have Rock Band, and you buy a bunch of DLC tracks. If you get 3 friends over, you can play those tracks in a band. Cool.
Then your Xbox dies and you get it replaced. If I'm reading this stuff correctly, then when you try to do the above, it won't work. Because now, only the purchasing profile (yours) has the rights to use the DLC. No more DLC for your band unless your three friends have bought the tracks on their own live accounts. This goes for anything that is multiplayer, including Live Arcade games. You'll only be able to play trial versions if you have friends over.
Obviously, this is not acceptable.
Absolutely true! (Score:5, Informative)
I received a replacement console after the red rings of death. I immediately called support regarding my content that no longer worked (without being logged in), went through a bunch of steps to confirm I couldn't get it to work (which was ridiculous - they MUST know that it wasn't going to work) and was then told I would be called back within a few days.
They never called, so I called them back. The same routine happened for about a month, with me calling back once a week. I had to start berating the support personnel and their powerless "supervisors" as they all continued to respond "be assured we are working on this and will have it resolved as soon as possible". No - you are NOT working on it - please stop the lies.
I finally talked to one support person that said "oh yeah, I don't know what those other guys were thinking, they logged your case completely wrong, I'll get this taken care of immediately, you shouldnt have had to wait this long. I schedule a call back with you on Monday to confirm". He went so far as to set up a specific 3 hour time period when I would receive the call back. Which of course never happened.
After going through these weekly calls of yelling at their useless "support" for a few months, I wrote to Major Nelson pleading my case (I don't know him personally, it was a desperation attempt). He sent my case number to someone in "escalations" who actually DID call me back. I thought I was finally getting somewhere. Within a week I got a call from someone in engineering confirming my console ID and serial number. Things looked promising.
That was 2 months ago.
My content has STILL not been unlocked.
And no, nobody was willing to give me points to re-buy the content. If they used to do that, they sure don't anymore.
I WAS a fanboy. The 360 and XBox Live were a great product. However, this is the absolute WORST customer experience I have ever had with any company, hands down. Because of their complete incompetence and unwillingness to resolve my issue, they have destroyed their image, and made me want to tell everyone I know about how bad their support is. Please spread the word.
Re:Absolutely true! (Score:4, Informative)
M$ has attempted to force the OEM OS being tied to the hardware, so that if the hardware fails you have to re-buy the OS. Where they had complete control over the hardware, seriously did you really expect them to behave any differently. They know it is wrong, they know they are stealing your content rights, they know there will be bad consumer reaction to this, which is why they obfuscate, lie and misdirect their responses. As far as they are concerned, the software is a part of the hardware and subject to the same beyond warranty failure rate and requirements of repurchase. You might have thought you were buying that content but make no mistake as far as they were concerned you only rented it and it was only ever going to last until the next version of xbox was released, at which time you be forced to renew the rent.