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PC Games (Games)

Unreal Creator Proclaims PCs are Not For Gaming 705

An anonymous reader writes "TG Daily is running an interesting interview with EPIC founder and Unreal creator Tim Sweeney. Sweeney is anyway very clear about his views on the gaming industry, but it is surprising how sharply he criticizes the PC industry for transforming the PC into a useless gaming machine. He's especially unhappy with Intel, which he says has integrated graphics chipsets that 'just don't work'."
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Unreal Creator Proclaims PCs are Not For Gaming

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  • TFA Clarification (Score:5, Informative)

    by GWLlosa ( 800011 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:06AM (#22699472)
    He's not saying that the PC is not a gaming platform, or that it shouldn't be. He's saying that there are 'high-end' PCs that can play games, and 'low-end' PCs that can't, and the gap between them is large and transparent to the average consumer (who doesn't realize that buying a PC with "Integrated Extreme Graphics" is the same thing as buying a PC that "can't play modern games").
  • by PC and Sony Fanboy ( 1248258 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:12AM (#22699538) Journal
    Thats my point - who cares if PC hardware isn't on par with consoles - there aren't any games coming out with those requirements, so stick to the old ones!
  • Keyboard and Mouse (Score:5, Informative)

    by tripmine ( 1160123 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:20AM (#22699656)
    I used to be a complete hater when it came to keyboard and mouse fanboys. But even since my friends and I started playing UT2K4 together about a month ago (yeah I know it's an old game shut up), I have seen the truth. FPS's are meant for the mouse. Until a console fully supports this, I will refuse to believe that PC gaming is dead.
  • by Telvin_3d ( 855514 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:37AM (#22699866)
    regarding the Wii; It's taking a while for the various companies to figure the quirks of the new control scheme. However, some are getting there. Drop a few dollars and rent Resident Evil or Metroid for the Wii for a weekend. I've seen it happen with a half dozen people now where they bitch about the controls for a hour and then everything clicks and away they go.
  • by abaddononion ( 1004472 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:37AM (#22699874)
    If M$/$ony will EVER gets some balls and support a mouse

    Hmm?

    Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3 can be played with mouse and keyboard just fine.
  • by abaddononion ( 1004472 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:43AM (#22699966)
    Again with these posts. Clearly Im going to have to give up on pointing this out, but:

    I cant speak for the 360 (I just dont know), but the PS3 already supports mouse/keyboards fully. It uses USB interfaces, so there's no difficulty finding a mouse or keyboard to hook up to it. If you want to go wild, you can buy an expensive bluetooth keyboard for it and save a port. Game support might be running a bit lower. I dont know about CoD4, but UT3 fully supports playing with the mouse/keyboard on the PS3. You have to set it up, but it's not a hard process and can be googled.

    Im not sure what more people are looking for with this "I demand full support NAO!" thing.
  • by xkhaozx ( 978974 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @09:57AM (#22700208)
    I won't argue with the fact that using a mouse for aiming has its advantages over a controller, but to say that FPS's _cannot_ be played on a controller?? That is completely ridiculous, especially given the success of the halo series. The thing is, the controller has a number of other advantages. The game controller is designed so that a number of buttons can be easily reached and used. The buttons themselves are even placed in certain location purposely to create more natural controls for the game (Ie, triggers for shooting guns). For games that actually aren't just run around and shoot things (Ie, Quake, CS), having the controller for these games becomes quite useful. Take a look at Halo 3. The controller makes the system of dual guns so much easier to use. You can easily switch individual weapons easily with controller. With the keyboard, once you start adding all the different functionality, the control system becomes very clunky and unintuitive. Games like Bioshock are made easier as well through the controller. RTS is the only type of game I would seriously limit to mouse-keyboard.
  • Why the hell do EA men and Sweeney make the crapiest games and then complain about the gaming market?
    In his defense, Tim Sweeney (and by extension, John Carmack) create gaming engines for a living. The games they put out (Unreal and Quake/Doom respectively) are mostly technology demonstrations, and not really games in of themselves. Tim expects licensees like Activision to produce "fun" games off his work.

    Sooo... in the grand scheme of things, Sweeney has found himself a free pass out of the creative side of game development.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 10, 2008 @10:11AM (#22700430)
    I'm a PC gamer and that's exactly what I do with my PC. I play the recent Valve games. Last upgraded the motherboard and CPU in 2004, and last upgraded the graphics card a year ago. It just works. It doesn't crash because I don't use it for anything other than gaming. The problems you list are myths I think, there is no need to be a "hardcore PC gamer" and continually upgrade. PC games are not so demanding.

    I guess I am using the PC as a games console, but it's a games console with cheap games, decent controls and no software restrictions, and I can reboot into Linux. For me, that is a much better deal than the 360. I suppose another advantage would be that I could replace the parts myself if they failed, whereas if I had a games console I would have to send it back to the manufacturer (red ring of death?). However, this has not happened yet.
  • by Jimmy_B ( 129296 ) <<gro.hmodnarmij> <ta> <mij>> on Monday March 10, 2008 @10:30AM (#22700814) Homepage
    <blockquote>Yeah? It'd also have cleaned up all the "legacy" software people are using. Like iTunes. Not to mention all the actual legacy software like kids educational software, drivers for old hardware, etc. I also don't know why he thinks this would have cleaned up viruses and spyware. These guys adapt fast and the extra anti-patch systems in 64 Vista aren't all that strong.</blockquote>
    It would've broken all the old drivers, yes, but they did that anyways. Regular applications would be unaffected, because x86-64 processors can run 32-bit programs just fine.
  • by twistedsymphony ( 956982 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @10:39AM (#22700946) Homepage

    Also, games for the consoles seem to be noticeably more expensive than PC games. It might just be because it's easier to pirate PC games, but it may also be to help make up for the manufacturer's losses in selling you the console hardware in the first place.
    I'm sure that's part of it, PC developers don't have to pay licensing fees since the platforms they developing for are open, Xbox 360 and PS3 games pay out nearly $7 per disc back to MS/Sony for licensing. Not to mention they have to foot the bill for special development hardware that can cost 10s of thousands of dollars per unit while PC games can be developed on off the shelf hardware.

    Most importantly though is that the Console market is more willing to pay a higher price, and things are usually priced at what the market will bear rather than what it's worth based on the entertainment it provides or the cost of manufacturing.
  • by theaceoffire ( 1053556 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @10:53AM (#22701232) Homepage
    ^_^ The funny part is that they are planning on releasing Crysis 1.5 on the PS3.
    Not only will it be coming to the console, it will contain 50% more stuff.

    http://kotaku.com/gaming/cry-on/crytek-says-crysis-for-consoles-possible-284534.php [kotaku.com]
    http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/03/03/rumor-crysis-for-ps3-looking-probable-will-be-an-almost-50-n/ [ps3fanboy.com]
  • Proof that (Score:3, Informative)

    by Stu Charlton ( 1311 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @11:05AM (#22701414) Homepage
    The high end game industry lives in its own (un)reality.

    How the hell is it Intel and the PC's manufacturer's fault for integrated graphics, when most PC's are for business use, where they, at best, play card games on. People won't pay for power they don't need.

    The market for insanely fast, high-end games seems to have shrunk in favour of casual games, MMOs, and "gameplay" games. Instead of working on graphics engines, the hotspot for innovation seems to be game play and game experience. Examples abound: Wii Sports, Bio Shock, Mass Effect, World in Conflict, the endless stream of "war games" like Gears of War and Call of Duty, etc.

    None of these games can be played with Integrated graphics; WoW will run max ~10-15 fps on X3100 Integrated graphics, and will probably degrade without aftermarket cooling. Almost all sales people at Best Buy or even at the Apple Store are very clear about what models are meant for games, and which ones aren't. Yet Tim claims that poor, blind, customers are being sold PC's that won't play games. I guess he's never heard of a "2 week return policy"?

    I think Doom 3 killed the market -- after that experience, people don't want to buy the same old 10 year old game with new graphics and some minor gameplay improvements.

    For example, if you improve the graphics (a bit) AND the gameplay AND change the setting or genre, you may have a winner... The current graphics champ, Crysis, has done fairly well [1up.com], selling 1 million [kotaku.com] through the end of January, despite early reports that it was flunking as bad as UT3. Gears of War 2 is hotly anticipated and I bet will slam UT3's sales despite being on the same engine. I haven't heard what UT3's sales are, last I saw it was 1.2 million [gamespy.com] for PS3 + PC combined, which seems to indicate PC sales sucked.
  • by NitroWolf ( 72977 ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @11:56AM (#22702274)
    I finished Resistance: Fall of man on my ps3 last month. Absolutely brilliant game. Ok, so the controller was a bit clumsy, but did that stop me having fun? No. It also enabled me to play the game slouched on a sofa, rather than sitting bolt upright at a PC desk with a bottle of mountain dew and a half eaten pizza for sustenance.

    I hear this little meme bandied about a lot, and I've found it to be utter bullshit. Unless I'm missing something, I'm far more comfortable sitting at my PC desk, playing a game than sitting on my couch, slouched over playing a game. I don't know how you or others trying to perpetuate this meme play games, but when I play, it's pretty intense. Sitting on the couch slouched over isn't exactly the best posture for competitive gaming.

    I suspect people like you, who prefer the slouched couch approach are casual players who basically suck at any competitive gaming event. Which is fine... I'm not bashing you for it. But the fact remains that a console is neither the environment for competitive gaming nor does it have the input methods for it.

    Gaming for me is competitive. That's the whole point of games, really... compete against something or someone. If you're playing just to "relax" and you don't care about winning... well that's great. Not everyone does that.

    The PC is fundamentally flawed by inconsistent drivers, latency, incompatibility, and simply by being a moving target. How fast is a PC? What graphics chipset does a PC have? A developer has to make the game tweakable, so that it works on everyone's PC and the people with the lithium-cooled turbofan graphics card can stop moaning that it doesn't play at 15241x19841 in 64 bit colour. Alternately, they could just focus it and optimise it for the same graphics chip everywhere and get the absolute best out of it.

    Oh please. This is complete horseshit. Inconsistent drivers? Rarely is there a driver problem with STABLE drivers. If you're using beta drivers or tweaked drivers, of course you're going to have problem... and that's the POWER of the PC vs the Console. If you want your shit to run faster and are willing to take instability as a price, YOU CAN. Can't do that on a console, you're stuck with what they give you. Latency? WTF does that even mean in this context? Consoles and PCs run over the same internet connection. Incompatibility? With what?

    A moving target, huh? You say it like it's a bad thing. The 2007 PC vs the console... consoles are supposedly superior graphics wise... except there's few games out for the console compared to the PC, so you have a faster graphics system but no games to play on it (Xbox 360 does have some decent ones). As time goes on, more games come out for the console, but the PCs start to catch up graphics-wise. A couple years into the release of the console, the PCs start to surpass the console in graphics and CPU power... there's some games out for the console now, but the PC can play them too and they look better on the PC, since high resolution monitors are the norm. The current crop of console games are still being developed for standard def TVs or at best 720p. Sure they display in 1080i and 1080p, but they look like shit compared to the same game on a 1920x1200 monitor.

    Fast forward another couple years... the consoles have fallen WAY behind in graphics and CPU power. Can't upgrade the consoles, so you're stuck with 2nd and 3rd generation games... the PCs have console emulators... they are playing your console games AND PC games at this point... now you're stuck. The new console comes out next year, prepare to drop close to a grand on the new gaming consoles and accessories. About the same you would have paid upgrading your PC to play the latest and greatest over the past 4 - 5 years. Now you start the cycle all over again - how much will the NEXT generation console cost after that? Over a grand?

    Yes, the PC is a moving target, and it's an asset not a detriment. You can choose what kind of gaming experience you want (and can afford) with a PC. Can't do that with a console. Gotta spend $600 for the latest and greatest or you get NOTHING. With a PC, you can spend $60 for something adequate, or spend $600 for the latest and greatest... your choice.

  • by FredFredrickson ( 1177871 ) * on Monday March 10, 2008 @12:44PM (#22703108) Homepage Journal

    However, I do have to agree with you about the performance fanboys. Most games these days (and consoles haven't been spared either) seem to be more like tech demos to show off better and prettier graphics, while sacrificing gameplay.
    Agreed! Look at CNC3. Just came out in the past year, but the graphics don't even touch games like crysis. So why is it such a good seller? Gameplay. It's proven time and time again, gameplay trumps graphics by far. I'd rather have a game I think is fun than a game that's got flashy graphics but is just another FPS.
  • by jacksonj04 ( 800021 ) <nick@nickjackson.me> on Monday March 10, 2008 @03:17PM (#22706084) Homepage
    Have you ever developed within the C#/XNA/.NET/DirectX framework?

    The entire thing is abstracted away from the architecture, the code really doesn't give a damn if it's running on PowerPC in a 360 or an x86 in a PC. The changes needing to be made are usually very small relative to the entire project (UI tweaks, save games etc).

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