Atari Founder Proclaims the End of Gaming Piracy 831
OMGZombies writes "Speaking on a conference held yesterday in New York, the Atari founder Nolan Bushnell said that a new stealth encryption chip called TPM will 'absolutely stop piracy of gameplay'. The chip is apparently being embedded on most of the new computer motherboards and is said to be 'uncrackable by people on the internet and by giving away passwords' though it won't stop movie or music piracy, since 'if you can watch it and you can hear it, you can copy it.'"
pplz on teh internetz! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:5, Interesting)
Defeating copying schemes has always been an educational past-time of mine. I learned to write my 8's almost perfectly when I copied out, number by number, the Quarantine chart mass/velocity chart because I couldn't photocopy the black text on dark brown glossy paper.
I even improved my memory when I memorized both the X-Wing and Tie Fighter manual keywords... that was a lot of manuals for a 12 y/o - I actually think it helped. I wouldn't be where I am today if I wasn't capable of picking up a software manual
So, TPM is a way for me to spice up on my logic probing eh?
Matt
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ya, that is the one thing I would like to see. With the rate of development for Linux on the PS3, I think we won't have to wait long.
what happens with a new mainboard? (Score:2, Interesting)
What happens if I have to change the mobo? Do I have to buy the game again? Do I have to re-register with a newly generated key? That would mean that there is some confirmation coming from some site, which, sorry Nolan, means someone from the intertubes will certainly be able to fake it.
Re:He smoketh the crypto crack (Score:3, Interesting)
It is like the trusted path for blueray content in vista, but then for software. You cannot run software unless it is in a signed environment.
If in 10 years the OS consists of virtual machines, one of those machines will be a TPM box that is controlled by Big media/game makers, that will only allow their games in a secure(by their viewpoint) environment.
That is, if you let them have it.
If you see how much is invested (and lost) on DRM in pc computer games this might be sooner than you think.
Re:Famous last words (Score:2, Interesting)
Lets say I rip the "sounds" and "models" then simply write a knockoff engine to play the same content. People have gone though harder means to make offline clients for MMORPGS. This is why his words are total bollocks.
Re:To race the naysayers... (Score:2, Interesting)
If a game or program requires a downloaded component it is pretty easy to make it impossible to crack. If every sold product has a large unique key and that key is stored in a database on the server then you can check if a key isn't used from different locations or in parellel.
For normal games, you wouldn't want to make an internet connection a requirement though.
Piracy of gameplay? (Score:4, Interesting)
From the article: "The TPM will, in fact, absolutely stop piracy of gameplay." I assume this TPM is a Trusted Platform Module [wikipedia.org]. For example, Windows Vista Ultimate's BitLocker feature uses the TPM. But don't you need at least Windows Vista to run games for Windows that require the TPM?
Besides, is it even possible to pirate "gameplay" as such? The Tetris Company likes to assert a copyright on Tetris, but game rules can't be copyrighted [copyright.gov]. One leading case is Lotus v. Borland.
"stealth encryption chip" WTF. (Score:1, Interesting)
Uses for TPM are mostly evil (DRM enforcement), but also good: They could make things a lot harder for the authors of worms, trojans, and virii.
The halting problem... (Score:3, Interesting)
To my knowledge, though, nobody has gotten a system together which is theoretically uncrackable. (Without having holes in the theory, anyway.) So we haven't gone down the "if you can watch it and you can hear it, you can copy it route." Well, not for games, anyway.
Try running GTA IV on your PC (Score:3, Interesting)
The game industry already has a copy-protect mechanism that works. It's called "game consoles".
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:4, Interesting)
New TPM chip? (Score:5, Interesting)
If it does stop piracy 100% ( which i doubt ) then it will cripple the industry as he's got no clue how much piracy HELPS the market, just like it does the music market and regular software market.
+ my system wont ever have a TPM, so does that mean they are selling defective products ?
TPM is Optional (Score:2, Interesting)
And TPM has been around for a while. Nothing new here.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Isn't this similar to the "dongles" of the 90's (Score:3, Interesting)
using hardware to lock software is like trying to hold pudding with string. it doesn't work.
proof of this is the fact that i had for some months MacOS X running in standard home-build PC. apple does everything they can to limit MacOS to their hardware, just to have people cracking the stuff.
so, here's my tip for game companies, either limit yourselves to erite games for consoles, or lower the price of original games. nothing's better than lower prices to curb piracy.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:5, Interesting)
One particularly annoying part is that the paying customers must foot the bill for the copy protection. This applies to both motherboard components and licensing the protection scheme itself. Software developers/publishers won't just eat these costs out of the kindness of their hearts. It's usually a triple-hit for the consumer, who not only have to cover hardware and licensing costs, but generally have to endure the burden of intrusive copy-protection schemes. Whether it's entering a long and complex serial key, fumbling for a game disk that's not needed for anything more than verifying authenticity, or some other method -- it all tends to put an undue burden on a customer who has already paid for a product.
In my opinion, this actually encourages some people (who would otherwise pay for a product) to violate the terms of the EULA in one way or another. No matter the copy protection scheme, most cracks allow a user with average technical knowledge are able to easily circumvent a scheme.
Perhaps I'm missing something - but it sure would be nice to abandon these copy protection schemes. I seriously doubt that the practice prevents anything but the most cavalier copying/sharing - and I doubt that this copying is what developers/publishers are targeting.
Re:Play it (Score:3, Interesting)
When I was just a lad, Electronic Arts had a copy protection scheme so byzantine that it would not allow me to run games I had actually purchased on my MSD Super Drive [wikipedia.org], which was hooked up to my C64. I had purchased One-on-One (Dr J vs. Larry Bird), and it didn't work, and the store wouldn't take it back. So I took it to a friend who had a friend who had successfully cracked several EA games. A week later, I had a cracked copy back that worked wonderfully, and I'm sure many other people did, too.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:3, Interesting)
That policy no longer exists.
The "why bother, it will be broken" argument appears to be based upon the premise that the developers want to build 100% guaranteed uncrackable-under-any-circumstances protection which they can safely sell in millions to every man and his dog without fear of it being cracked. I would argue that they know full well that this is nigh-on impossible - all they're aiming for is "good enough to keep 99% of customers under the thumb".
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:5, Interesting)
tpm works the same way SSL works.
namely there's a PKI.
i.e. each chip has its own key which the user cant get to, which is verified by a certificate chain (ala SSL).
if the software can't verify the chain, it will refuse.
so attacking the TPM chip isn't how you attack it.
you attack is by simply getting the software to verify with a trojaned certificate. We can do that today w/ web browsers by inserting our own "top level" certificate. You think it be difficult w/ games?
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:5, Interesting)
(4) Decrypt and then remove the TPM checking code from the game.
In other words, run it legally on a TPM-equipped machine and then crack the hell out of it and create a new unencrypted executable minus the DRM shit.
Re:Atari founder cries wolf about piracy-ending ch (Score:1, Interesting)
TPMs have some great uses, but mainly for internal corporate networks and computer grids. Check out Trusted Network Connect and IF-MAP for more details. There are often a spectacular number of assumptions necessary to make any serious use of a TPM, and as such solutions on the internet that use them simply wont work*.
For one, they aren't resistant to non-trivial hardware attacks. There have been some great vulnerabilities discovered in various chips. The whole aim of this initiative is to prevent malware from making your software behave badly, not a determined attacker.
Cheers,
John
*Or wont work any better than a solution that doesn't use them.
Re:With apologies to the original author... (Score:3, Interesting)
There wasn't any outcry afterwards, because the users weren't inconvenienced any more, thanks to what was available on GameCopyWorld.
Disclaimer: I, too, tend to download fixed exe for every game I've legally bought, just to avoid being inconvenienced by the protection scheme (NO, I will *NOT* install StarForce on my system !)
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:5, Interesting)
Or give it a legit TPM chip and just capture the output of whatever it is verifying. I'm guessing its the equiv of a cdkey check that returns some kind of hash needed to play.
Theres no way any large number of actual operations go through this chip as it would kill performance, which is the bread and butter of selling new pc games. All you need to do is replace, skip, or duplicate the pieces of code that depend on this chip.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's really this kind of ignorant, the corporate masters must be right bull, which allows them to get away with it. The reason why the PS3 has that sort of restriction is so that you don't run OSS or Linux compatible games on it instead of the games that Sony wants you to buy.
Re:I wonder.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I think that neatly addresses your other point:
There are certain DRM schemes I will tolerate, but most of them, even if I buy the game legitimately, I will go straight to the Internet for a crack.
So, piss off the more technically savvy customers, and still lose at least as many customers to piracy as before. Sounds like a no-brainer lose situation for the developers.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Famous last words (Score:3, Interesting)
True, but they're "tamper proof". It will take a hell of a lot more hardware to crack them. Start with an electron microscope, and you're not done with just that one little part
Furthermore, due to the mandatory CRL's, there will not be any widely published hacks.
-Tying purchased software or media to a specific hardware device p*sses people off when they repair, replace or upgrade and their DRMed stuff no longer works.
The TPM allows just not doing that (of course whether people use it like that is another question) : you can prove, to another TPM or to the publisher, that you deleted something beyond retrieval.
Therefore the TPM could easily be made to allow the "first sale doctrine" to go digital in a non-stupid way.
-Talk about opening up Asian markets, etc, is proceeding under the flawed assumption that those who acquire illegal copies of a game would even purchase a legit copy.
Then they can do without. Just wondering : do you feel bad that thieves are denied the use of your car ? No ?
You're laboring under the assumption that those thieves would even buy a car if they were prevented from stealing yours !
So you'll leave them in the ignition from now on ? No ? Isn't it hypocritical to force others to let their stuff be stolen and not do the same yourself ?
-Restricting your potential install base in this manner will reduce exposure, popularity, and ultimately sales of your game despite the opposite being your goal.
Actually the goal is to maximize PAYING CUSTOMERS. Not "exposure". Exposure doesn't pay. Exposure is what Al Gore is after. What Obama is after (in the case of a Chicago politician, perhaps exposure does indeed pay, just look at the govt. job his wife has "somehow" gotten). What Bush is after. For all us non-politicians, we're in it for the money (well, for a living at least).
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:4, Interesting)
People make mistakes. Programmers are people. And furthermore, this isn't just some theoretical thing. It happened recently to Nintendo, a game company that likely has more money to throw at such problems than most.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:1, Interesting)
The xbox360 is also hacked, more complex but pirate scene is pretty big.
The PS3 is locked down at boot at firmware level. It's a complete bastard with signed keys. It remains unbroken over 18 months after launch. I'm surprised people cannot even do much more than "hello world", and that's on a dev console that's far more open than retail units. Don't expect hackers to beat it for quite some time, if at all.
If you want a usable Linux on the PS3, hassle Sony to have NVidia release their driver for it. It's only PPC, it exists, but it's locked away. Maybe it allows a hook into the RSX that Sony don't want published. Installing Linux on the PS3 without a proper driver is pointless. It's shit as a server thanks to its laptop drive, shit as a desktop due to framebuffer only video. The only saving grace is the three people on the planet that want to play with limited cell processors can buy commodity gear and do so.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:4, Interesting)
I therefore assume the rest of that microsoft article is a similar load of bullshit. That said, no, changing RAM alone will not usually trigger a reactivation.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:3, Interesting)
Tax incidence is the reason every economist in the world came out against the Gas Tax Holiday; the elasticity of Gas supply is inelastic, so the Oil Companies were already eating the cost of the gas tax and removing it would only profit them.
But in the case of the TPM chips, if you really wanted to see who pays the cost for their implementation, you'd need to know how both producers and consumers of the boards they're on respond to the price hike they force. As long as some boards are available that don't have TPM and are thus cheaper, the manufacturers have to eat the costs of the DRM or else they wouldn't be able to sell any boards (few people pay more for nothing). So I wouldn't be surprised to see a fair amount of backroom dealing in the convincing of manufacturers to include the TPM chip, because not only does it do nothing for them, I suspect it actually hurts their bottom line.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:4, Interesting)
That's exactly what people did when removing the StarForce DRM from games.
TPM only does validation of certain code. Ultimately an unencrypted copy of the game will end up in memory. Even if the OS is locked down, you can hit the reset button, load Linux and dump the contents of RAM.
Re:Fire up the soldering irons... (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree. The biggest point mostly missed is the one on if piracy were eliminated, then everyone would need to buy their own copy...... BZZZT...
That is the assumption. The reality is if piracy is eliminated, then there would be fewer titles in circulation and the support buzz and community would erode. Do you really think Microsoft would have had a chance at all if they had eliminated piracy from day one? They would be in great company of Lotus 123, Framework, and other market leaders that got replaced.