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Wii

Twilight Hack Defeats Wii Menu Update 3.3 199

Posted by kdawson
from the say-goodnight-gracie dept.
Croakyvoice writes "Only days after Nintendo shipped Wii Menu 3.3, which stopped the Twilight Hack from working, the team lead by Bushing brought out a new version of the Homebrew enabling hack for the Nintendo Wii using the Zelda Game and a hacked save game."
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Twilight Hack Defeats Wii Menu Update 3.3

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  • open works better (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drDugan (219551) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:18PM (#23891483) Homepage

    when will these companies get it - if done well, open systems work better in a globally connected world.

    billions of monkeys typing on computers will inevitably create a small handful that can and will consistently break your closed source world.

    • by The End Of Days (1243248) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:56PM (#23891683)

      I'd have to say Nintendo has the entire open source world beat hands down so far as gaming is concerned.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by KDR_11k (778916)

        Fitting in with your sig the popular and good opensource games seem to come mostly in the former-commercial or clone-of-commercial flavours.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by osu-neko (2604)

          I don't normally comment on people's sigs, but since you brought it up, his sig is actually kinda stupid.

          Suppose I have a friend who constantly harps on how he can fix anything on his own car and how everyone should learn how to perform regular maintenance on their own cars and save themselves money at service stations for things they could do themselves. He does this for years, constantly harping on it. And then one day, we discover he can't even change his own oil. I myself don't change my own oil, so

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Unfortunately, due to decades of contentious lawsuits and complaints from cranky customers, companies have been forced to lock down their hardware to make sure that there are really no variables that exist in the system that could disturb the lowest common denominator consumer. Yes, it would be nice if everything we bought was unlocked, open, hackable, and mod-able to the nth degree, but that also opens the door to the one thing that no mainstream consumer will accept - instability. The average person buyin

      • by mrsteveman1 (1010381) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:21AM (#23891791)

        I don't believe what you just said represents 2 mutually exclusive paths, things can be open and stable at the same time.

        Your lowest common denominator consumer isn't going to be screwing with the system, so the fact that its open and not locked doesn't affect them, certainly it won't suddenly make their system unstable, remember most people don't hack around in these things.

        The real push here is to prevent any perceived piracy risk by preventing backups from playing.

        • by grantek (979387) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:58AM (#23891933)
          You know, I don't think Nintendo were really serious about "blocking homebrew on the Wii once and for all" with this update. From what I've read the system files were datestamped months ago, implying rigorous testing and a philosophy above all of not bricking any wiis even where the exploit was installed. Given that effort, I don't think they could have been stupid enough to think they were permanently closing anything. I think it's just a token effort to say they disapprove of doing things the non-Nintendo way (a fair enough position if you're proud of your product), and maintaining a healthy level of FUD about third-party code that isn't based on any official API for the wii.
          • by Andrew Kismet (955764) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @07:11AM (#23893329)

            I wish scores went above 5 so I could've modded this up.
            They said that homebrew save files will be deleted, publicly, prior to providing the update link; they basically said "We're going to eliminate anything that could cause system instability, so if you want to keep it, transfer it to an external device. We really don't want to brick your console." No reasons regarding piracy were given, although they probably express a healthy level of awareness and paranoia about the possibility of homebrew leading to piracy.
            All in all, Nintendo generally seems intelligent about this sort of thing. They're trying to balance the happiness of the power-users and modders with their corporate interests and the possibility of piracy.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              They said that homebrew save files will be deleted, publicly, prior to providing the update link; they basically said "We're going to eliminate anything that could cause system instability, so if you want to keep it, transfer it to an external device. We really don't want to brick your console." ...All in all, Nintendo generally seems intelligent about this sort of thing. They're trying to balance the happiness of the power-users and modders with their corporate interests

              Nintendo is still keeping in mind
          • FYI, the date stamps were read backwards. It was June 3rd of 2008, not March 8th of 2008.
          • by Mattsson (105422)

            I think it's just a token effort to say they disapprove of doing things the non-Nintendo way

            So, basically, Nintendo is Apple Light? =)

            and maintaining a healthy level of FUD about third-party code that isn't based on any official API for the wii.

            I'd say it's unhealthy FUD, since I won't be buying any Wii as long as I must fear that they might push an update that make me unable to use my console the way I want to.
            Give me official support for homebrew software and I'll get one...
            Keep pushing stupid stuff like this, no deal.

        • by Opportunist (166417) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @07:07AM (#23893319)

          It also wouldn't mean more illegal copies. Mr. Average doesn't "mod" his console for the same reason he buys his games: It's easier, more convenient and doesn't require technical knowledge.

          All you'd have to do is make sure that playing illegal copies requires you to know what you're doing and make it nontrivial to do. The reason why there is a market for game copies on the PC is that it's convenient (due to copy restrictions and "CD must be in the drive" crap, often more convenient than using the original).

          Now, it doesn't get more convenient on a console than using an original. Slip in the CD and play. Since there is no install part, even the CD requirement isn't a deterrent.

          OTOH, don't forget that most console manufacturers earn a sizable portion of their income from licensing fees to those that want to produce for their consoles. I doubt they'd readily drop this source of income.

          • by Carrot007 (37198)

            > Since there is no install part

            You obviously don't own a ps3!!!

            (Yeah I know we are meant to be talking about the wii but your post seemed to have gone generic)

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Opportunist (166417)

              Indeed, I don't own a PS3 and never will.

              In the battle between curiosity (will it mod?) and integrity (it's a Sony), integrity won.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by xtracto (837672) *

          The real push here is to prevent any perceived piracy risk by preventing backups from playing.

          It is funny to read comments in slashdot where people is talking out of their asses.

          The "real push" has nothing to do with preventing piracy. The Twilight patch does *not* provide a way to play pirate Wii titles (so called "back-ups"), the way to accomplish that is witi a mod chip (which interfaces with the disk drive).

          Therefore, the upgrade did not prevented "back-ups" from being played. It just tried to prevent t

          • I don't even have a Wii, i was speaking in general, usually when these platforms get locked down its not for stability reasons, its to stop backups from playing.

          • by billcopc (196330)

            As the happy owner of a modded Wii, I'll chime in and state that blocking homebrew is a very pointless and stupid move. Nintendo needs good developers, because the Wii has caused every half-bred rip-off artist to jump on the bandwagon and the volume of crap games is staggering. It's like the NES all over again!

            By promoting homebrew, or at least letting them be, they just might allow someone to develop a really cool feature or indie game, that Nintendo could pick up and sell online a-la Xbox Live. Simple

      • by dissy (172727) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @02:32AM (#23892273)

        The vast majority of the people out there buying stuff just want to pay, plug, and play. That means standards, simplicity, and - unfortunately - lockdown.
        I have to call bullshit and a half on this line of reasoning.

        Lets go with a famous slashdot car analogy, that happens to fit perfectly well.

        My car's hood is not locked requiring a special key that only the dealer has.
        I personally however am not mechanically inclined enough to do much more than check fluids in my car. I *do* take it to a mechanic to have it worked on. I am like your wii's lowest common denominator except for cars.

        Now, add lock down. A special key is required to open the hood. Only the dealers have these keys.
        Suddenly, every single person that liked tinkering under the hood is screwed. They have to resort to quasi-legal methods to do with their property as they wish. Those people know better than to call the dealer expecting a replacement when they know it was them monkeying with it that broke it.

        I however am not affected by this change. My car still runs, and the procedure is basically the same, other than I have to go to the original dealer and get raped by their 10x higher prices, but since my usual mechanic wont have the key, i get screwed too in a way.

        Leaving the wii unlocked to modding can't possibly effect the people who will not be modding it!
        It only prevents those of us who want to do with our property as we wish, from being able to do so.

        • by Dragonslicer (991472) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @06:40AM (#23893199)

          My car's hood is not locked requiring a special key that only the dealer has.
          Because your car requires maintenance every few months that involves opening the hood. If a Wii needed a refill on magic smoke every three months, you'd have an opening in the box so that you could get to the magic smoke tank.
          • by dissy (172727)

            Because your car requires maintenance every few months that involves opening the hood. If a Wii needed a refill on magic smoke every three months, you'd have an opening in the box so that you could get to the magic smoke tank.

            If they wanted to lock down the hood, and still needed to expose a very few select things (ie oil, dipstick, water) and the rest they force you to bring it to the dealer for. Not too hard.

            Some printer companys managed to lock down their printers/ink carts, and they need maintenance every few months too in the form of feeding it new ink and more paper.

            But, I suggest we stop now, no since in helping to design the next generation of locked drm car for them.

            • by billcopc (196330)

              Some printer companys managed to lock down their printers/ink carts, and they need maintenance every few months too in the form of feeding it new ink and more paper.

              And people buy these printers because ... ?

              Any office drone can swap a printer cart and add paper to a tray. We've been doing it for decades already. If the manufacturer required me to call their overpriced support monkeys over each time I get a PC LOAD LETTER, the first monkey will meet an untimely death and I'll score some free printer-opening equipment.

              Fax to the print company: "Support rep never showed up, please send another", lather, rinse, repeat until the CEO himself comes down to "fix" my "print

        • Re:open works better (Score:5, Interesting)

          by v1 (525388) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @09:09AM (#23894067) Homepage Journal

          I was to the mechanic last week to get my engine checked out. The check engine light was on and I had no idea why. It didn't really tell them much either.

          So they hooked it up to a "computer". (little handheld diagnostic gadget with small LCD display) Many of us that have taken our vehicles in for service have had to "hook it up to the computer" to see why the idiot light is on.

          It told him there were one of three problems, the main one of which was going to require tearing the truck to pieces to get at a sensor, and since it only MIGHT affect my gas mileage, it wasn't worth it and I'm just going to live with the light, it's an old truck.

          But he said that the computer itself was 20 grand, and the modules that he had to plug into it to check my vehicle, were $500 apiece. (there were two, any vehicle takes a particular combination of the two, one to read the sensors and one to interpret the output) He also told me that this was the last time the company was going to make modules for it, that the next iteration he was going to have to upgrade the computer (another 20 grand) but was very thankful that the modules were going away and it was instead only going to cost $200-300 each for downloads to upgrade the two parts of the tool.

          So in much the same respect, Ford holds a lockdown on my truck, that I can't diagnose it without someone paying an unreasonable amount to do so. I don't have to take it to the dealer, there are mechanics with The Computer too, but it's not like I can have one of my own. He gets $40 every time he hooks someone up to The Computer, to defray the cost of the computer and its modules. That's $40 I really shouldn't have to pay, it should tell me what's wrong, or be a reasonably easy output. (gimme a serial cable with serial out, or on something newer, let me ssh in) Or on some vehicles you get a flashing series of lights. Or how expensive would it be to simply have a 3 digit LED display to give me a number, and have a table in the back of the owner's manual to look up the number? But no they're very happy to charge someone a ridiculous amount for that privilege and so that cost is passed on to me.

          I also know someone that reprograms ECUs for street racing ("ricer") cars. He has to disassemble the source code on the new ECUs to figure out what they're doing, to modify them to fit the customers' needs.

          There are many examples of lock-down in vehicles.

          • Re:open works better (Score:5, Informative)

            by PCPackrat (1251400) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @10:20AM (#23894525)
            This isn't lockdown. There are many tools available to read the diag codes from your car. His $20,000 tool and 2 modules covers most vehicles. But as an end user, you can buy a scan tool exclusively for your vehicle for under $300. If your vehicle is 96 or newer then it's OBDII and the tools are even cheaper as they have standardized the language cars speak.
        • Have you seen the inside of the average new car nowadays? With proprietary computer diagnostics most corner garages are closing as they can't talk to the cars, hence they can't fix them.

          There are also warranty issues. No one but a Toyota dealer would even want to touch a Prius, what with the high voltage special training required. If anything cars are being locked down more and more. The hood is just there to allow you to do the minimum required, fill washer fluid, check a few levels and top off. Otherwi

      • by Brigade (974884) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @02:44AM (#23892311)

        Wow .. you just described my absolute hatred of Apple and their philosophy.

        What you have here is two distict, yet separate groups:

        The idiot-proof, lowest-common-denominator, who wants things to work (and simply).
        The more adventurous, possibly more knowledgeable individuals who like options.

        I will NEVER purchase an iAnything. Why? Because I like to tweak, tinker, and have options. That's why I have an 8GB Nokia that uses a standard USB port to talk to any computer (and the phone says "What do you want me to be? A USB HDD? Maybe Sync with your phone software? How about a normal MP3 player?"), a Creative Zen for MP3s/Videos on the go, and a PC.

        The problem with a locked-down, "Do it our way only" philosophy is it encourages laziness and contentment. How many of us got curious, or felt adventurous enough, to tinker with something technological (broken or not) just to figure out how it works (or even make it better or more suited to our needs)? Which, through trial and error, only encouraged us to venture out further and learn even more when our curiousity was piqued? If we never had the oportunity to break something or toy with the horizons on our own, we'd never be as knowledgeable in a technological fashion as we are. (Referring here to fellow /.'ers).

        • Re:open works better (Score:4, Informative)

          by krischik (781389) <krischik@@@users...sourceforge...net> on Sunday June 22, 2008 @04:50AM (#23892783) Homepage Journal

          Wow .. you just described my absolute hatred of Apple and their philosophy.

          I will NEVER purchase an iAnything. Why? Because I like to tweak, tinker, and have options.

          With most of what you say. But there is an exception: for the iMac it's not valid. The iMac is great for tweaking and tinkering. Better then a windows PC. All you need is opening Terminal.app and take it from there.

          And what most users never notice: Apple isn't actualy against it, read:

          http://developer.apple.com/opensource/overview.html [apple.com]

          Of couse the MacPro is ever better for tinkering - but then there is no 'i' in it's name...

          Martin

          • by Mattsson (105422)

            I'd say Windows and OSX are equal in how good they are for tinkering.
            There's lots of stuff you can do under the surface to enhance the workings of the standard installation in both systems.

            I must say that homebuilt x86 PC's are much more tinker-friendly than Apple PC's, or any other brand name PC's, though.
            There's not much you can do under the hood in an imac. You're restricted to upgrading the CPU, RAM and harddrive. No access to RAM-timings, FSB ratios, northbridge overclocking/overvolting, etc, etc.
            Not e

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by billcopc (196330)

              I must say that homebuilt x86 PC's are much more tinker-friendly than Apple PC's

              That's only true if you used tinker-friendly components, primarily the motherboard and ram.

              Cheap board + cheap ram = no tinkering
              Cheap board + awesome ram = might not even boot!
              Awesome board + cheap ram = limited tinkering
              Awesome board + awesome ram = the sky's the limit

              Case in point: I have two PC models, both have the same base performance. One costs $775, the other costs $1125 - for the math-challenged, that's a $350 difference. Same CPU, same amount of ram, same-sized hard disk. The cheap one does n

      • by LS (57954) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @03:03AM (#23892405) Homepage

        I have no idea how this got modded insightful. Saying that opening a system makes it unstable is like saying that removed locks from the doors of a house will make it fall down. The stability of a system is correlated with its quality, not whether it is open or not.

        LS

        • by hey! (33014)

          This is where analogies get you messed up.

          Consoles are computers. Computers you don't need to buy anti-virus or anti-spyware for. Remember the things that prompted the creation of web pop-up blockers? They were a direct result of the web being an open platform.

          Removing the locks from your house won't make it fall down. But it will open your house to agents who might make it impossible to live in.

          Of course, this is about Nintendo getting its cut of game revenues. But they aren't in the platform busines

          • by LS (57954)

            No, the analogy is not messed up, you are just going off on a tangent. The analogy is just illustrating the idea of stability, not security. No analogy is exactly the same as the thing it is compared to, or else it would just a description and not an analogy. You could also say that "removing the locks means you'll need to buy energy-wasting power tools and also create more trash when you have to dispose of the locks, thus creating a burden on the environment", which is also ridiculous because we aren't

            • by hey! (33014)

              The analogy is just illustrating the idea of stability, not security.

              But in fact this is a distinction without a difference for a game console.

              Of course, an open system wouldn't be less stable because it is open. This is an absurd idea. The software doesn't know whether it's open or closed. That's not a technical detail, it's a policy one. The very same software that is closed can be opened just by distributing specifications and keys. It doesn't know whether this has been done or not, and therefore

      • by billcopc (196330)

        Yes, you're absolutely right.

        That's why my custom-compiled Gentoo kernel causes Debian machines all over the world to panic.

        Just because something is open, doesn't mean Joe Random will hack it. If he does, and he kills it, tough tits.

        Joe Random can also press DEL while booting his computer, mess with the voltages and multipliers, and fry his CPU/board. Tough tits!

        There's three kinds of users:
        1. those that are good modders, do their research and understand the risks

        2. those that don't mod, they're content

      • The real reason for lockdown is piracy prevention and ensuring publishers have to go through the manufacturer to get their cut of the game. (How do you think they manage that? They make all the discs and charge a lot more than a pressing plant!)

        Currently both PS3 and 360 have "manufecturer approved" ways off playing with the console - PS3 has their crippled linux build, and 360 has the less-crippled-but-you-pay-for-it XNA. Not sure if there's less hacking involved because of it, but it does seem like at

    • I'm all for open sourcing stuff, but the business model of consoles is all about having a closed platform so you can keep piracy to a minimum. And so far it's been working pretty well for them for the past 25 years or so.

      Yes, there's a "small handful" that will constantly break their "closed source world[s]", which in turn requires them to spend money writing and releasing patches all the time, but between that and making their consoles as piracy-friendly as PCs are, I'm pretty sure the former choice is the

      • Re:open works better (Score:5, Informative)

        by marcansoft (727665) <hector@nOsPam.marcansoft.com> on Sunday June 22, 2008 @05:38AM (#23892971) Homepage

        The interesting thing is that modchips work in a completely different way, so these fixes don't really affect them. None of the current homebrew hacks/etc have anything to do with modchips or let people use pirated disc-based games.

        As for VC/WiiWare piracy, it's true that the Homebrew Channel requires the same installation methods as hacked VC/WiiWare games, and both look the same to the system (unsigned channels). However, if Nintendo released an officially signed Homebrew Channel, we wouldn't have to worry about installing unsigned code any more. Then they could fix the unsigned channel bug, therefore killing VC/WiiWare piracy, and we wouldn't have to work around the fix (thus indirectly letting the pirates use it too). Pirate VC games are rather hard to run as "homebrew", because they want to read their data as channel contents.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by ultranova (717540)

        I'm all for open sourcing stuff, but the business model of consoles is all about having a closed platform so you can keep piracy to a minimum.

        It has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with getting license fees from everyone who develops software for the console.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          No, it has everything to do with piracy, because the cruel reality is that no matter how good the intentions of the homebrew hackers are, 99% of the people that use their hacks are only interested in piracy.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Sony's PlayStation 3 encourages you to run custom software on it, but it's not helping their case very much :P

    • by pokerdad (1124121)

      when will these companies get it

      How about when will the modder/homebrewers get it?

      This isn't about you. Nintendo isn't breaking your mod to screw you. Nintendo knows that you are going to have a new release to counter theirs within days (the very nature of what this patch did screamed, go create a work around, we don't care), but what Nintendo is achieving by constantly breaking your mod, requiring you to fix it, is limiting who will use such mods.

      By constantly requiring modders to overcome new patches Nintendo is providing a barrie

    • by urbanriot (924981)
      Except this keeps the average user from loading up pirate software. Wii copy protection works for the masses, but doesn't work for the small handful that know how to get around it.

      billions of monkeys typing on computers will inevitably create a small handful that can and will consistently break your closed source world.
  • Score (Score:5, Funny)

    by Plazmid (1132467) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:19PM (#23891485)
    Hackers- 1 Nintendo- 0
  • Easter Egg (Score:5, Funny)

    by ProdigySim (817093) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:46PM (#23891633)

    Take note of the nice easter egg they left in for Nintendo to find:

    The Twilight Hack Song
    ---------
    This was a triumph.
    I'm making note here:
    HACKED AGAIN.
    It's hard to overstate our satisfaction.

    Team Twiizers
    We do what we must because we can.
    For the good of all of us, except the ones who pirate.
    But there's no sense crying over every quick plug.
    We just keep on trying while there's still one more bug.
    And the homebrew comes back, and we make a neat hack.
    For the people whose Wiis want new life.

    I'm not even angry.
    I'm being so sincere right now.
    Even though they broke the hack and patched it.
    And fixed IOS30.
    And broke every fake signed disc out there.
    As they failed it hurt because...
    They were attacking homebrew!
    Now these quick hack fixes have some beautiful holes,
    So we found them fast and easily met our goals.
    And I'm glad we got burned.
    Think of all the things we learned.
    For the people whose Wiis want new life!

    Go ahead and patch it.
    I think I'd like to have some fun.
    Maybe you'll find an undisclosed bug.
    Maybe that huge one.
    That was a joke, haha, fat chance!
    Anyway, this homebrew's great. It's also legal to use.
    Look at me still talking, when there's hacking to do.
    It might take three months,
    but they'll patch this one too.
    I've experiments to run, there's reversing to be done.
    On the people whose Wiis want new life.

    And believe me the Wiis want new life!
    I'm busy hacking and they want new life.
    I feel FANTASTIC and they'll get new life.
    While you're dying they'll still be alive.
    And when you're dead they'll still have some life.
    STILL ALIVE,

    still alive.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    - A New Hack
    - The Big N Strikes Back
    - Return of the Twilight Hack

  • by QuantumG (50515) * <qg@biodome.org> on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:55PM (#23891681) Homepage Journal

    For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice. There's been some talk about Firefox on the Wii but, as far as I can tell, that's all it is: talk.

    So yeah, buying a Wii (and most every other console) is just buying a pair of handcuffs.

    Hopefully PCs will never ever be this locked down.

    • by EvolutionsPeak (913411) on Saturday June 21, 2008 @11:59PM (#23891699)
      My gf and I bought a pair of handcuffs last week and I have to say that they are much more fun than my PC.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Assembler (151753)

        My gf and I bought a pair of handcuffs last week and I have to say that they are much more fun than my PC.
        ... a very different form of lockdown than what Nintendo is providing
      • by GroeFaZ (850443)
        Yes, but are they more fun than a Wii?
      • by Minwee (522556)

        And, much like Opera, it's not over until...

        Oh, never mind. You can just fill in your own joke here.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:25AM (#23891821)

      I will say (and I will say it anonymously, as even the vaguest breath of this opinion is karmic suicide on Slashdot), your sense of entitlement is quite overinflated. You seem to be under the impression that anything with silicon in it must be open to hacking and supported in such a hackable state by the manufacturers . If you can't run $os_of_choice on it for God only knows what reason (you haven't run it enough on your PC?), it is not only Flawed(tm) but immoral.

      Seriously. It's a game console. It's not a $250 shortcut to a PC. Why on earth do you (I mean you, specifically, apparently an ardent PC user) want a web browser on a console? You can't just use a console to play games and a PC to do work?

      And if you ARE one of the elusive homebrewers who actually want to make new games for the Wii (not Yet Another Damned Emulator), you are aware that the Wiimote's had fairly stable drivers for most major operating systems for some time now? I mean, if you actually want to develop for the Wii's unique features, I can get behind that the whole way. It's just that you don't need to hack the Wii to do so.

      Just my opinion. While everyone else is struggling to figure out how to play old games from their past consoles on the Wii (in addition to their PC, XBox360, PS3, etc, etc), I'm having fun playing Wii games on the Wii and doing work on my rather a bit open PC.

      • It's a game console. It's not a $250 shortcut to a PC.

        Compare $250 for one console to $2,500 for four PCs.

        Why on earth do you (I mean you, specifically, apparently an ardent PC user) want a web browser on a console? You can't just use a console to play games and a PC to do work?

        I want to develop video games with the expectation that they'll be played on a monitor larger than 19 inches diagonal. You see, four people can't easily fit around a 19 inch monitor, and I can't expect families to afford a separate PC for each person. If home theater PCs were more common, I wouldn't care as much about the homebrew scene.

    • by Yosho (135835) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @12:45AM (#23891893) Homepage

      For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice. There's been some talk about Firefox on the Wii but, as far as I can tell, that's all it is: talk.

      You realize that Nintendo and Opera have always been perfectly up front and clear about their intentions [opera.com] with this regard, right? They had announced that Opera for the Wii would be free for only a limited time before it was even released.

    • For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice.

      And your point is... ? Nintendo and Opera made no secret about the fact that the Internet Channel was going to cost money. The reason why it was free for a time was that the browser was in public beta testing. The early testers had to put up with constant crashes, freezes, corrupted renderings, and a rather primitive user interface. But Opera used the feedback on the browser to create the superior final product. Those who had participated in the beta got to keep the browser at no cost.

      So get your facts straight, eh? You made it sound like they did something evil.

  • Seriously.
    Because a lot of times "homebrew" is merely a code word for "illegally copied games" (oh, wait.. let's call them "backups", yeah.. that sounds much better).

    If it allows you to write your own software for the Wii (is there an SDK publicly available?).. well, then we're talking and this is something to get excited about.

    • by cigawoot (1242378) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @02:28AM (#23892251)

      Seriously. Because a lot of times "homebrew" is merely a code word for "illegally copied games" (oh, wait.. let's call them "backups", yeah.. that sounds much better).

      If it allows you to write your own software for the Wii (is there an SDK publicly available?).. well, then we're talking and this is something to get excited about.

      1) Homebrew doesn't mean "illegally copied games."

      2) There is a sort of crude SDK out there, google it.

      Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

      • by vux984 (928602)

        Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

        How likely are you to buy a VC title when you've already got the ROM file and an emulator running?

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by yamiyasha (1119417)

          Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

          How likely are you to buy a VC title when you've already got the ROM file and an emulator running?

          Same as how much I would, if I owned the original cart and the working system

          • by vux984 (928602)

            Same as how much I would, if I owned the original cart and the working system

            I could see buying the VC version if you owned the original cart and working system because that it a royal pain to setup.

            But if you've already got the game running on the wii in emulation, why would anyone pay $5-$10 to that you can get the game running on the Wii in emulation, except to clear their conscience.

            And even to clear one's conscience, if one has "500 NES" ROMS, they aren't going to drop $2500-$5000 into the VC to 'legit

            • You know there's a difference between being able to and doing, right? Just because I happen to have the tools necessary to rape women doesn't mean I do it.

              I agree that someone who brags about having 500 NES Roms will most likely not care too much about "real" homebrew software and priorizes the aspect that unlocking your console enables you to play copies.

              I, for one, modded my consoles for a rather different reason: Because I can. I don't even have a lot of games (and that which I have, I have the original

    • by marcansoft (727665) <hector@nOsPam.marcansoft.com> on Sunday June 22, 2008 @06:35AM (#23893175) Homepage

      Let's set thing straight. So far, homebrew on the Wii is an entirely different playfield from copied games. To play games on DVD-Rs, you need to hardware mod your drive, period.

      Now, when you get to Virtual Console/WiiWare piracy, things get a little muddier. Unfortunately, if you can run homebrew, then you can effectively pirate VC games, because the terribly broken security means that you can pretty much just install them and they'll work. This might change in the future, when Nintendo fixes the problems.

      Our (Team Twiizers') goal is to enable homebrew on the Wii, not piracy. We're not going to go out of our way to prevent piracy, but we also try to come up with methods of running homebrew that don't directly enable piracy. However, we can't work around the fact that, ultimately, if you can run unsigned code, then that code might be a game. We do have the advantage that pirates don't really have much of clue overall (so far), which is why we haven't seen a Wii ISO loader that can run games from an SD card yet. We sure as heck aren't going to write it, but if someone does, there's not much we can do about it.

      As for homebrew, there is certainly a public, free, open source SDK available based on the GNU toolchain and an open source library to access the Wii hardware. In fact, most of the Wii's hardware is supported. Full graphics (though the API is mostly undocumented, it's all there), Wii Remote, SD card access, Gamecube pads, networking (WiFi or ethernet), USB mass storage, partial sound (no hardware acceleration yet), etc. See devkitpro [devkitpro.org] for the toolchain and wiibrew [wiibrew.org] for the community wiki.

    • [...] a lot of times "homebrew" is merely a code word for "illegally copied games" [...]

      LOL.

      You DO realize that Wii has no demos nor other way to preview games???

      After buying R4DS I felt really really relieved - it was like I managed to return all the money I have wasted on number of overrated shovelware titles there. Now I buy games intelligently - because most of the time this are the games I already finished.

      I can only welcome cracking of Wii games since it would add extra pressure on game producers to actually make simpler better games people would be willing to pay money for.

  • Fatal flaw (Score:2, Interesting)

    by puddnhead7 (576696)

    "Only days after Nintendo shipped Wii Menu 3.3, which stopped the Twilight Hack from working, the team lead by Bushing brought out a new version of the Homebrew enabling hack for the Nintendo Wii using the Zelda Game and a hacked save game."

    This tells us that the wii allows content executables to run at a root/system level of elevated privilege.

    No matter what Nintento does, they have no way to remove this security hole in way that would break the massive distribution of popular older software like Zelda.

    The

    • Re:Fatal flaw (Score:4, Informative)

      by marcansoft (727665) <hector@nOsPam.marcansoft.com> on Sunday June 22, 2008 @02:49PM (#23896707) Homepage

      Wii games do run with a separate CPU taking care of security. There's a permissions system. However, said system is broken enough that we have 4 or 5 privilege escalation methods stowed away if we need them. Which means that the only real barrier to hacking the Wii is getting any code to run, which (practically speaking) means exploiting games via savegames. We'll always find one more bug in one more game.

  • What is the point? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Werrismys (764601) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @03:10AM (#23892429)
    Why do ppl insist on hacking PSP, Wii, etc? They are closed platforms. You don't lie closed - just don't buy them. Especially PSP hacking seems troublesome enough to avoid the thing altogether
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by BurgEnder (698732)
      Simple. Even though I know I'll get modded down for saying this - Yes, it does open the door for people to do what they want with what they purchased(running *nix/bsd, or coding your own program for the box) which I agree you should be able to do, but everyone I've ever known who has hacked their console has done it to play pirated/burned game software.
    • by Fross (83754) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @03:47AM (#23892561) Homepage

      Because people like modifying things and see what they can make them do. This is the hacker ethic.

      Make your car go faster? Or run on vegetable oil perhaps? Changing your fridge into a computer cooling system? Messing with a synthesizer's innards to get some sounds it never had before? Improving an item by doing something with it the original manufacturers never considered.

      For any reason from souping-up, to making it more envrionmentally friendly, to just off-the-wall crazy, hacking is about repurposing something because it suits you. It's inventing, innovation, creativity. If you can't see the point in these, then you don't understand hacking and I wonder what you're doing here.

      For the Wii and PSP specifically, they are awesome platforms (and unique in their features), which inspire people. They are obviously having ideas for games, or uses for the consoles, that they are not available commercially. These homebrew guys have to work their own way in as the manufacturers have chosen to make dev kits and release methods prohibitively expensive (tens of thousands of dollars), so kudos to them for doing so. I hope they continue to use homebrew to make the next great set of applications and games.

      If you want a comparison of how a manufacturer can get it right, look at what is going to happen with iPhone development over the next 6 months. With a free SDK and cheap way to distribute apps commercially, there will be a LOT of people eager to join in, and Apple will get a ton of apps and even some revenue, from doing this.

      Whether the companies embrace homebrew or not, it will always be there one way or another. They should recognise it as a pool of talent and creativity and allow it the space to grow.

    • by Spad (470073) <slashdot@spad.YEATSco.uk minus poet> on Sunday June 22, 2008 @05:39AM (#23892979) Homepage

      Because it's there.

    • I would love to rely on open platforms instead of closed ones. The problem is, they don't exist. Except for the PC and probably some very few mobile/other devices there are no open hardware platforms that I can chose over a closed platform, especially with consoles.

      So obviously I'll take the next best closed platform and hack it. I have no choice, because these companies won't give me a choice.

      The only way to make companies sell open platforms is to complain loudly and hack the current systems in orde
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by neumayr (819083)
      Especially in the case of the PSP there's a lot of incentive to "fix" the firmware.
      Not only do you get a lot more out of that pretty impressive hardware, it also improves its capabilities in regards to its intended purpose - games just load a lot faster from Memory Sticks than from UMD, and not having to power an optical drive improves battery life.
    • Why did people insist in going to the moon? It's not like there's anything to gain there (except bragging rights, which is why the countries involved did it, but it's a completely different matter for the pioneers who did the foundation work).

      Because it's there, and because it's a challenge. Sure, unlike the moon consoles are an artificial challenge. But still heaps more real than beating a computer game.

  • Does this allow you to play imported or backed up games or only homebrew, I'm still not entirely sure what the point of it is?

    • Re:Only homebrew? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rsmith-mac (639075) on Sunday June 22, 2008 @07:24AM (#23893395)

      It allows you to do the following:

      1) Play pure homebrew from SD/USB
      2) Play games from other regions on legitimate (pressed) discs
      3) Play pirated Virtual Console/WiiWare games

      And with a ModChip to keep the DVD drive from telling the Wii that a burnt disc is inside:

      4) Play homebrew from burnt discs
      5) Play pirated games with modified files

      For obvious reasons, Nintendo is worried about #3 and #5.

      • by AbRASiON (589899) *

        Interesting, I'd heard there was some kind of iso loader to run copied games themselves but clearly not - probably best in Nintendos favour to boot.

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