Children Concerned By Parents' Web Habits 381
praps writes "Children are becoming increasingly worried about their parents' Internet habits, according to a report just released in Sweden. Unsurprisingly, dads surfing for pornography is the most common problem, but chatroom addiction also featured in the report — as is a mother who has become obsessed with World of Warcraft. 'This summer she has been sitting up all day and all night and she forgets what's important to me,' wrote the woman's 13-year-old daughter. 'And when she's not at the computer she's like a lost soul. She just looks straight ahead and says nothing.'" There are also a lot of scammers out there who like nothing better than to find retirees who they can sucker into get-rich-quick schemes involving real-estate, stock options, and convincing the neighbors to be part of a "downstream" for MLM marketing ploys.
what's with the porn hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
"dads surfing for pornography is the most common problem"
Why is that a problem? so dad likes some porn, big deal.
Hmmm, yes I've seen this with WoW. I highly suggest that 13 year old change the router so it 'drops out' during certain times of the day..also she needs to get her mother in intervention.
Obviously, my porn comment is for casual viewing, if it impacts going to work, taking care of the kids etc, it's a problem too. The fact that it's porn or WoW doesn't matter.
The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder how many of these problems are kids whining for attention the way they might whine for ice cream, and how many of these issues are genuine problems. In many cases, if there is a genuine problem, I suspect it'd manifest in other ways if the Internet didn't exist. For those seeking escapism, it might be that the parent goes to the dog track or casino instead of the endless web surfing.
As for kids coming across daddy's little porn stash, I worry for the parents more than the children. If the parent isn't being inappropriate with the child (Yes showing them porn isn't appropriate but I'm talking about interfeering with them) it's the parent that could end up in jail in our paranoid society. The truth is that if kids are to be equipped to deal with the modern world, they should learn about sex early so that they can avoid predators and dangerous misinformation. They just should not engage in sexual activity early. People have become so scared that their children might engage in sex early that they're willing to go to extreme measures and label ordinary parents as sexual predators. Honestly how many slashdotters would have had fathers who had a stash of playboy magazines and who'd secretly sneaked a peak at them when they were young. This is the internet equivalent.
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
I can agree, somewhat, that the younger people have some gripe about their parents fiddling around in chatrooms or WoW, but kids of previous generations often dealt with parents that were either gone fishing, drinking, or like one of my parents and buried in novels endlessly. It was much the same thing, if she wasn't holding a book, she'd be rather distant, would read through the family tv time, would skip meals to find out what the next chapter holds and when one book was finished, it was off to the next one. It seems more like humans exhibiting the same particular types of behavior through different conduits.
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
If you suspect addiction, then take a break, and if you're really not sure, see a psych. or counselor.
It's supposed to be for-fun, to enhance your life, not replace it.
BTW, I play WoW too, mostly at night before bed, when I have time.
Re:what's with the porn hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it depends - is dad doing the surfing discreetly after the kids have gone to bed, or is he trolling for pr0n in the living room at midday when the kids are sitting only a few meters away?
The latter would be pretty indicative of a problem, y'know?
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids need to learn about sex. The problem is that porn often teaches the wrong things about sex.
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:2, Insightful)
The truth is that if kids are to be equipped to deal with the modern world, they should learn about sex early so that they can avoid predators and dangerous misinformation. They just should not engage in sexual activity early.
I protection is used, why shouldn't children engage in sexual activity as soon as they express an interest in each other?
There's another problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
parents behaving this was is bad enough, but this statement here says alot about the kids today
"This summer she has been sitting up all day and all night and she forgets what's important to me"
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
Correlation and causation, folks. Sigh. It's highly unlikely that WoW took a perfectly normal mother and converted her into a zombie like this. These symptoms are indicative of deeper psychological issues that manifest in an unhealthy obsession with WoW. So WoW not having an "ending" is hardly an issue -- people can get addicted to anything that offers escapism, and the fact that this mother is addicted to WoW is not a cause to point fingers at WoW. And I speak as someone who stopped playing warcraft after warcraft 2 back in the 90s.
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:2, Insightful)
If only I had mod points...
Hell, there was a time when fathers kept playboys in the Den in a basket next to the recliner (well, okay, not a perfect analogue since Playboy is pretty soft-core and it did have articles worth reading). Nowadays that would likely get you jailed.
One nitpick though: equipping a child to deal with sexual subjects upon maturity doesn't necessarily involve pornography, especially the stuff that is pretty commonly found online.
I mean, it's one thing to discuss the emotions and mechanics of the subject to the kids in a way that shows love and tenderness between 'mommy' and 'daddy'. It's another ballpark entirely to have to explain why there's a popup showing someone with a ball-gag in her mouth while being urinated on (or something else just as "WTF!?"-inducing).
Pr0n taught me everything (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids need to learn about sex. The problem is that porn often teaches the wrong things about sex.
Isn't that what a parent is for? To explain the good and bad and put into context what the child is seeing? It's not very fashionable but it's called parenting.
Because (Score:5, Insightful)
People can, and do, quit MMOs. I quit WoW not long ago. No big reason, no epic struggle, I was just kinda bored of it. I hadn't been playing enough to justify my subscription so I stop the recurring charge. I'll probably go back and play it some time later, or maybe another MMO, I'm just not in the mood for them right now. I didn't "win" I didn't have everything in the game, not even close. I just really don't feel like playing it at this point in time.
So there isn't any magical digital crack in these games that forces you to play. Some people just have the sort of personalities or mental problems or life problems or whatever that they get far too heavily in to it and won't give it up and thus their life suffers. It isn't a flaw with the game, it is a flaw with the individual.
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't end. That's the whole point.
People pay per month. In other words, the maker of an MMORPG gets money as long as someone plays it. So the goal is to make people play as long as possible.
How is this done? By dangling carrots in front of people. There is yet another boss to kill, yet another item to get. And that's what WoW like every long running MMORPG is about: Items.
You get them by killing bosses. But not every time. They drop it once in a while. So you have to kill bosses over and over to get your item. And you don't just need one. You need a set. A helm, a chestpiece, a pair of boots, a sword, a shield. Each of them dropped at some other boss.
To get to such a boss, you have to defeat his minions, pretty much like in a plain old platform game. The size of those areas makes sure that in any given evening, you can only do it once or maybe twice. In other words, two shots an evening to get an item that drops about every tenth time, and you need about 8 such items to have your gear.
Well, the gear to get the next gear. You see, you can't just level to 70 and then go into the top dungeon. You won't make it. You first have to get other gear that gives you the bonus points you pretty much need to even stand a chance in other dungeons. WoW is now, IIRC, at "Tier 6". I.e. you do that whole thing six times before you're at the top.
To make it less trivial, you can't do that alone. You have to find a group to do something like this. And since you can't just depend on some random freaks (I mean, would you want to waste an entire evening to find out the healer you signed up is a complete tool?), you usually do that in more or less constant groups. People form guilds, clans, whatever the name, i.e. groups of people you more or less can trust.
This is another quite strong incentive for many people to keep playing, since they don't want to let their "friends" down. They "depend" on you to some degree.
And since not everyone has time every evening, such "raids" are usually not done every night. Most of the time, you can get a shot at a boss about twice a week.
So let's calc'. Twice a week, two runs an evening. Let's be generous and say you can raid five times a week (unless you are in one of the guilds that really have no life anymore). Five tries on something that drops about once out of ten times (and let's assume the unrealistic situation that you "may" always take it, i.e. that nobody else with "more right" to the item gets it, should it drop) means that you're busy about two weeks to get one of your set items. Now let's furthermore assume you don't go on raids into dungeons that you don't need at all because nothing you need drops there, but your healer friend needs it and he won't come along for your sword (because there's nothing to gain there for him) if you don't help him. But let's assume that doesn't happen.
Then you're busy two weeks per item, eight items a set, six sets to go.
Do the math yourself when you'll be "done". The only question that remains is, will it be before or after Tier 7 comes along? Or tier 8, tier 9...
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:5, Insightful)
I protection is used, why shouldn't children engage in sexual activity as soon as they express an interest in each other?
Perhaps because they don't understand the consequences and implications of what they're doing, the protection isn't 100% effective, their minds and bodies aren't ready to deal with the gamut of emotions, and because they're vulnerable to predation from adults who take advantage of this.
Fight against addiction (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:5, Insightful)
-Sex is easy to get and everybody's doing everybody else.
Everybody but you.
-It's not uncommon for 2 or 3 incredibly hot young girls to seduce some lame looking dude.
Just not you.
-There are literally thousands of hot young people gathering together around the globe to have orgies.
You're not invited.
and of course...
-A shaved pubic area is beautiful.
When the red bumps are airbrushed out.
Re:WoW (Score:2, Insightful)
Meh - she said that her Mom was totally ignoring what SHE wanted.
Let me clue you in, toots - I have a 13 year old daughter too, I've never played a second of WoW, and I ignore what my daughter WANTS all the time. But I never ignore what she needs.
It's called parenting, and you won't get it until you have kids of your own.
(Alt-tab back to the porn I was surfing)
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, they are designed to be consistently enjoyable. I could say the same thing about sunny beaches, and yet not everyone goes giving up their lives to become beach bums.
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Because (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
CmdrTaco needs to raise the mod point cap to 50, because even at +5 you deserve to be modded up.
I started playing WoW a few years ago, at a time when I was depressed out of my skull, but I just didn't know it yet. I eventually reached a point where I was too depressed to haul my sorry ass to work in the morning, so I called in dead and played WoW 16 hours a day for months. I didn't code, I didn't hack, I barely left the apartment. Eventually the anti-depressant meds kicked in and I was wired into semi-sanity. By the time I got back to 90% normal and had found myself a new job, I stopped playing WoW, just quit cold turkey.
I fired it up again a few weeks ago, to try out a private server... I found it all extremely boring and quit after a few days. That tells me the WoW playing was a symptom of my depression, not the cause. It was the only thing easy enough to do, that didn't get shot down by my total lack of motivation.
I think the WoW mom needs to see her doctor, and a therapist.
Re:WoW (Score:3, Insightful)
Depending on mood, they can ignore you completely, and actually avoid you, or, they can compete with your bathroom breaks for your time.
What I'm saying is that a teenager giving an anecdote about her parents' behavior is enough to warrant a second look by someone else (not a social worker) but is not enough to diagnose her parents with some type of behavioral disorder.
Re:The problem isn't the Internet... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:WoW (Score:3, Insightful)
But how frequently is a sunny beach going to hit your reward centers? Is it going to let off for a little bit and then hit again, or is it going to stay at the same level of stimulus pretty constantly, fading into the background? Video games can be engineered to be addictive in a way that no non-interactive media or experience can be.
Not everyone who tries crack goes on to be a crack addict, either. Addictive tendencies run in families. Likely, people who have these tendencies already know they do, which is why a subtle, "Hey? You know how you get obsessed about certain things to the detriment of the rest of your life? Yeah, this may be one of those things, you may want to pace yourself," is enough. Forewarned is forearmed. For most people, it won't be an issue anyway.
Re:There's another problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, wanting to eat and speak to their parents is such a selfish act, the little brat~
Gambling "gaming" poker machines (Score:2, Insightful)
I worked at a casino in Tasmania where i live, and they have a monopoly on 'gaming' machines in the state. Gaming is their word for poker machines which are the ultimate form of money making addiction machines. They have all the best psychologists working on these machines so they tweak peoples rewards centers just right and the money of the poorest portion of our community is focused into the pockets of one very wealthy family.
So if there is someone playing games too much, who cares at least they aren't stealing money to fund it like all those gambling addicts and to some extent hard drug addicts.
Re:what's with the porn hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
I've got to say, once you're a parent you might feel differently (I'm assuming with a UID like yours you're a young pup ;-). Even if you feel there's nothing wrong with porn (I agree with this) there is such a thing as age appropriate.
I don't have a problem with my teenager seeing violent movies, but I did not let him watch violent movies when he was younger. There are many reasons for this... Just as there are many reasons for not wanting to expose young children to everything an adult can handle.
Young children are not emotionally or rationally prepared for porn (or kinds of porn). Much like other children, I remembered sneaking playboys in 6th grade, etc. I do think there's a difference between a 6th grader seeing a playboy and seeing gangbang bukkake furries...
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
There isn't magical chemical crack in crack either. Just because using cocaine (or its freebase form - crack) is pleasurable, doesn't mean it has some conscious-hijacking compulsive prowess, DEA brainwashing to the contrary aside. Just like with the WoW example, people who become addicted to drugs are those who already suffer from existing psychological problems. If it weren't WoW, crack or heroin, it would be something else that supposedly screwed up their lives.
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
In some games you hear of people literally working shifts doing nothing but sitting there defending something. I don't think WoW is that bad but I still get the impression that if you are at all competitive the way to get ahead is to sink more hours into the game than your competitors.
Re:WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
That is a sad perspective, and certainly not true. I'm a rock climbing instructor part time, and people who don't climb find it difficult to understand the passion and sheer addictiveness of climbing. There are very large portions of the general populace who get no joy at all from video games, and that majority would find your claim...questionable. I won't even bother to go into more examples of experiences that are consistently enjoyable, non-chemical and still addictive.
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I am still not likely to ever play it for a variety of reasons and the quote you gave is a great example of another reason why I won't likely play it. From an experience viewpoint I'm just 34 but I'm able to be retired, for the most part, already. (There is a method to my digression.) I have been all over the globe and did a recent tour of the United States that took enough miles to go around the globe at the equator. So, well, I'm pretty sure I know what I want. I don't know how old you are, nor do I know your life experiences. I know that I have had the chance to witness drunken people who have consumed my beer or enjoyed my skillset (in one form or another) and have gone to great lengths to convince me to stay. There have been sober people too but I concern myself just with the drunk ones for now, they are the worst. When I want to go, I want to go. I don't want someone to convince me to stay. When I unsubscribe from a newsletter or the likes it is often because I want to change my email to a new "spammy" address. If they have a bunch of gibberish or complain too much then I won't resubscribe to their newsletter with my new address as I would have. See, well, I've been the drunk guy asking the people to stay. I've been the person who has been tugged on and had his clothing stretched as I was asked to stay and then not felt interested in returning nearly as often.
You can call it melodrama if you'd like. You can call it anything you want really. The reality is that they're my dollars and I'm gonna vote with 'em 'cause one normally gets one vote per person but it turns out I can vote with m'dollars. WoW won't get a nickle from me. They probably weren't going to, KOL got thousands from me, 'cause I wasn't that interested to begin with. Now, knowing what you have added, only makes me think they're more greedy than what I'm used to and I'm even less likely to contribute to their coffers. Call it melodrama, call it asinine, call it KGIIIism if you'd like. To me, when I want to leave I want to leave. Don't screw with me when I'm trying to go home and have sex with my wife. (I also get pissed off at software that asks me if I'm sure I want to uninstall and then tries to take me to a page to convince me to keep it or what not.) It isn't, I don't think, melodrama unless you're a zealot for WoW. It is just how I view things and how I prefer things.
Re:Because (Score:3, Insightful)
Children can at a very early age see that there is something wrong with their parents' job as parents. The children will still need follow-up, even if they're smart.
Re:Because (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit, there are essentially 3 ways in which drugs cause addiction.
1: First of all many drugs are indeed very pleasant. In fact, some of them, like cocaine, cause such extreme releases of serotonin and dopamine that this effect will on its own make virtually everybody who use it addicted to it relatively quickly. We are hardwired to get somewhat addicted to things that are pleasant (like sex), the problem is that some drugs have so strong effects that this effect goes beyond everything else. It is not about having an addictive personality, because everybody have a tendency to feel some form of desire or need of things pleasant, and drugs like cocaine strikes strongly at this by preventing the reabsorption of signal substances in the brain, resulting in a massive spike in the levels of the hormones that make us feel well.
2:Many drugs cause pain when you try to stop using them. Nicotine and Alcohol are probably the most well known examples, but Heroin has similar effects. Because the body tries to adjust to the effects of the drug, ceasing to use it can mess you up fairly bad. Smokers tend to get a bad stomach when they stop, alcoholics experience headaches, and heroin abuses can literarely go mad trying to stop using the drug. There are a lot of further symptomes but what they have in common is that ceasing to use the drug creates unpleasant symptomes. These effects have been clearly demonstrated and are not merely psychological. Many drugs affect more parts of the body than just the brain and some of these side effects show up when you quit.
3:Some drugs prevent you from feeling pleasant from other things without the drug. Long time smokers can find it difficult to relax without nicotine as an example. As the body creates extra receptors to compensate for the effect of the drug, more of it is required to trigger the same response ( being one reason why smokers tend to smoke more and more the longer they have been addicted ) and other things that would normally make you feel pleasant may have a dimnished effect unless the drug is pressent simultaneously.
It is true that a number of authorities have inconsistent policies, but mostly this takes the form of having less stringent rules for nicotine and alcohol than for drugs like cannabis. It doesn't mean cocaine or heroin are harmless, and indeed the problem with people not trusting the authorities when it comes to advice on these drugs is one of the reasons why pretending that cannabis is way worse than alcohol or nicotine is retarded. By undermining their creidbility by greatly exagerating the dangers of cannabis, the authorities are causing a lot of people to underestimate the dangers of drugs like heroin. This is a major problem since the latter, unlike cannabis, will almost certainly destroy a person, and a heroin addiction makes nicotine look like a slight temptation in comparison.
Re:I have had customer experiences like that (Score:4, Insightful)
another scenario is they actually had several credit cards and the husband wasn't laid off. They thought a sob-story would get them a discount on the parts. After they realized your handling of parts sourcing and general business practices sucked, they went down the road and found a more "reliable" vendor and are now sitting happily in an internet cafe.
Oh, and the kids? Yeah, they were made-up too.
It makes no sense whatsoever for them to have shared that information with you aside from the hope of financial gain. What, you think it was a plea for you to throw in something for the kids' Christmas gifting?!
I do imagine your competitor (who isn't part of the Nanny State) is quite appreciative of the end-of-the-year bonus though. That's probably a good thing. The competent should survive after-all....
Re:NO FKNG WAY! YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO???? (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem is, too many people try to take that time during the typically quite limited amount of time you actually have available in any given day to interact with your children.
Coming home after work, eating dinner, then setting the kid in front of the TV while you go and game for a while...not good. Not good at all. There is no reason for it, and no excuse for it. Spend that time with your child. Play with them, interact with them. Trust me, it's WAY more satisfying and you get so much more out of it than you could from any game (or porn or whatever). You've got lots of time after they go to bed for yourself.
Some people don't learn this until it's too late. Some people never learn this. My son is 5 already, never ceases to amaze me how fast that 5 years has gone by. I always always always choose to spend time with him over time for myself, and not once have I even remotely had any sort of regret for that. I know I won't feel regret over it when he's 10, 15 20...either.
Don't get me wrong, kids do need to learn how to take time for themselves. But they will. That's when I usually get chores done, or get meals made etc. I always seem to have ample time in the evenings for myself.
Kids really are the best source of entertainment you could ever hope to find, as long as you're willing to take part.