Nintendo Loses Controller Patent Lawsuit 324
kryogen1x alerts us to coverage at 1up indicating that Nintendo controller may soon become scarce — Nintendo lost in court to Anascape over analog sticks in their Wii and GameCube controllers.This isn't the first time the big manufacturers have been targeted in lawsuits involving features in their controllers. From the article: "The lawsuit concerns the analog sticks in the Classic Controller and GameCube controllers, which Texas-based Anascape Ltd. claims to hold a patent on that Nintendo violated. The court has ruled in favor of Anascape, and US District Judge Ron Clark has rejected Nintendo's request for a new trial. As a result, Clark said he will put a ban on the sale of the controllers (which includes sales of GameCube systems) starting tomorrow, July 23, unless Nintendo posts a bond or puts royalties into an escrow account."
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:5, Informative)
Anascape Ltd. is a Texas-based computer firm specializing in analog-related technology.[1] According to the Dun & Bradstreet database, it is located at "15487 Joseph Rd Tyler, TX."[2] All of Anascape's patents, however, are registed to "Brad Armstrong" of Carson City, Nevada. [3] The companies slogan is "Anascape - The Analog Landscape of the Future!!!"[1]
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Anascape [nationmaster.com]
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:5, Informative)
Re:As usual ... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:5, Informative)
Nintendo Co. Ltd. (Nintendo) has been accused of infringing/and or still infringing on the patents listed:
Patent # Title
6,222,525 "Image controllers with sheet connected sensors"
6,344,791 "Variable sensor with tactile feedback"
6,351,205 "Variable-conductance sensor"
6,563,415 "Analog sensor(s) with snap-through tactile feedback"
6,906,700 "3D controller with vibration"
What could the Classic/GCN controllers violate that the Nunchuk doesn't? Probably the analog triggers that *click* when pushed down all the way. "Analog sensor(s) with snap-through tactile feedback" seems an accurate description.
posting AC because I modded down trolls.
Re:As usual ... (Score:5, Informative)
More Detailed Article (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=awZrhG5wo.jw
Possibly the patent in question (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/07/nintendos_patent_case_the_unanswered_questions-2.html [kotaku.com.au])
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:5, Informative)
6,563,415 "Analog sensor(s) with snap-through tactile feedback" - This one is invalid through prior art, i.e. atari 2600 joysticks had snap-through tactile feedback.
6,351,205 "Variable-conductance sensor" - This is the stupidest fucking patent, this is just a potentiometer. The patent office is really shining in the stupidity here.
6,344,791 "Variable sensor with tactile feedback" - another stupid ass patent with prior art going back to the 80's. i.e. race steering wheels used in arcade games like pole position.
Maybe I can get a patent for dumb ass patent troll...
6,245,892 "dumb ass patent troll" - Hey I'm going to start sueing!!!
Re:Prior Art (Score:5, Informative)
The earliest mainstream console with an analog stick I'm aware of was on the (82?) GCE Vectrex, though from your link the infamously terrible 5200 stick predates it by a few months.
Anyway, this patent is about analog sticks with built in rumble packs. Previous controllers (N64,DC) used plug in modules instead. Building one into the controller itself, wow, go go patent trolls.
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:1, Informative)
terms (Score:5, Informative)
This is a bit of a pedantic response, but "prior art" means something different. Prior art is evidence of the patented invention, or something substantially similar, having already been invented by someone else, earlier than the patent holder's earliest evidence of invention. Prior art usually invalidates a patent, since only the first inventor can patent something.
What you're asking about is the case of someone sitting on a patent for a while, not enforcing it despite being aware of the violation, and then enforcing it later. There is no automatic statutory ban on this, unlike with trademarks, where you can lose the trademark after a period of not enforcing it. There is a general legal doctrine of "estoppel", which prohibits you from inducing someone else into doing something and then suing them; for example, if you told someone you forgave their debt (even if you didn't legally sign documents to discharge the debt), and they relied on your statement to that effect and bought a house, and now you want the money back and they don't have it because they bought a house with it, they could invoke estoppel since you misled them to their detriment about the status of the debt. In cases like this it's a bit harder to invoke---it's not like the patent trolls actively say "hey anyone can use our patent!" and then later "ha ha just kidding, see you in court!" Instead, they keep quiet for a while, and then sue later, so you'd have to argue their silence was acquiescing to or encouraging the use implicitly, and that it was done intentionally for the purpose of getting the defendant to rely on the patented technology before suing. This has worked on occasion.
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:3, Informative)
6,563,415 "Analog sensor(s) with snap-through tactile feedback" - This one is invalid through prior art, i.e. atari 2600 joysticks had snap-through tactile feedback.
Atari 2600 joysticks were digital, not analog.
Umm Sega has prior art, no? (Score:2, Informative)
Clearly the system works (Score:5, Informative)
These patents involving a stick as a proportional control for direction are creative, innovative and represent a clever improvement in the art. What I'm not sure of is how the inventor is alive still, as the idea has been around for quite a while [iwebland.com], as shown by these craft which used the identical principle.
Aw, who am I kidding? If there were no patents all of the people involved here could have spent the last year of their lives doing something useful instead of quite carefully and at horrific cost arriving at a conclusion destined to be overturned on appeal. All they've accomplished is to drive up the cost of everything we buy and impede the progress of science and the useful arts.
Patents and copyright need to go away [abolishcopyright.com].
Re:As usual ... (Score:5, Informative)
Once upon a time, a certain area of Texas was popular for tort plaintiffs because it frequently produced enormous damage awards, thus providing employment and tourism revenue for an otherwise inconsequential part of the United States. Then, a series of tort reform laws were passed to curtail the activities of the offending courts. So, in search of a new means of corrupting the judicial system to keep a constant flow of legal tourism through Mayberry, a judge from Marshall, Texas decided to publish a paper on patent rules.
Having a judge who understands patent law is an excellent proposition, except when the judge intends to contort the law to draw business into his remote domain and benefit his local associates.
Who decides where a case is brought when the defendant (say, a national corporation) is subject to personal jurisdiction throughout the entire country? The plaintiff. How do you persuade patent plaintiffs to bring lawsuits in your backwards town? By handing out numerous favorable decisions and large damage awards.
And so, E.D.Tex and Marshall, TX are the bane of patent defense attorneys throughout the United States, and patents of doubtful validity regularly receive the imprimatur of a federal district court.
The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit doesn't agree to hear appeals for every case, nor should it. That would be impossible.
In conclusion, we should never have let Texas into the Union in the first place.
The real creator is Ralph H. Baer. 1967. (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Prior art? (Score:2, Informative)
PAID. PAID. The past tense of to pay (money) is PAID.
This is not an isolated occurrence on Slashdot, and it's driving me nuts. Any given story has a high chance of having this misuse in it. It's not accidental, and payed is a word, but not that word.
Needless Hysteria (Score:4, Informative)
Sales are not going to stop. Nintendo will, of course, either post a bond or put the royalties in an escrow account, and continue on manufacturing the infringing items while they appeal. If they win on appeal, they get the money back. If they lose, they pay it, and pay a reasonable royalty from then on, or change the design of their devices to not infringe.
Re:The real creator is Ralph H. Baer. 1967. (Score:4, Informative)
Nintendo basically admitted infringement! (Score:5, Informative)
Nintendo used an interesting strategy. They basically conceded that the Gamecube controllers and Wii Classic controller infringed, and concentrated on making sure that only those would be found to infringe. The Wii remote was also accused, and their goal was to keep that from being found to infringe.
Judge Clark commented on this when denying Nintendo's motion for remittitur:
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:5, Informative)
What people here don't understand is that you have to read the claims of a patent to know what mechanism really is patented. The claims describe a minimum set of properties that a device should have in order to be covered by the patent. For example:
6,563,415 "Analog sensor(s) with snap-through tactile feedback" [google.com] - in essence, it is about a button that does 'click' when you press it AND has analog readout. For prior art, you need a combination of these two properties integrated into a single device. The fact that there have been analog joysticks with a clicky button forever is not relevant. In addition there are some technical details on how the click is produced and how the analog reading is done. Make a pressure sensitive button with a capacitive pressure sensor instead of a conductance sensor and it is not covered by this patent.
6,351,205 "Variable-conductance sensor" [google.com] - this is a variation of the previous one with two click points during pressing the button.
3D controller with vibration [google.com] - if you read the claim, this seems to be a very complex device with several buttons attached in a specific way combined with potentiometers. The patent was filed in 2000. An Nintendo engineer who knew about this patent could probably have designed around it if he wanted to.
So I don't think the patents are covered by prior art in this case. There is another requirement for a patent, and that is whether the invention is obvious to someone skilled in the art. That is much more fuzzy. In general, if the patent is a new combination of three or more existing inventions, it is non-obvious. If it is only two existing inventions combined, then it depends. I'm not into game controllers, so I can't judge that here.
Re:Prior art? (Score:5, Informative)
More details of the patents in question can be fond at this Ars Technica article [arstechnica.com] from couple of years ago.
Note that at least one of the patents in question was sent back to USPTO for reexamination, and likely to be overturned (once the various lawyers have exhausted their revenue stream on making comments either way).
The #1 indication that this is a patent troll is seen by it being filed in the Eastern Texas District -- Anascape appears to be nothing but a straw company for allowing Brad Armstrong and his lawyers to file in Eastern Texas, which has by far the highest rate of finding for the accuser in patent lawsuits. To the point that it's become a rubberstamping farce, and I can't see how higher courts let this go on as it does -- judges like Mr. Clark [justia.com] would, in any more civilized society be disbarred (I almost wrote defrocked, which wouldn't be far from the truth in Texas), and put in a pillory for good measure.
Re:Live by the sword, die by the sword (Score:3, Informative)
They used a lockout chip which could was only manufactured by Nintendo. The system contains one lockout chip, and a game cartridge must have a corresponding lockout chip inside as well. Whenever the lockout chip fails to authenticate, the power light on the NES flashes and the system resets every second. Now you know what component to blame for the flashing gray screen.
Other manufactures used tricks, such as zapping the lockout chip with high negative voltage, to get their unlicensed games running on a NES.
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:2, Informative)
BTW even though the 2600 joystick was in essence digital, all the inputs were read through analog mechanisms.
100% correct. If you ever had a 2600 joystick stop responding properly (as I did many a time) you could disassemble it via 4 screws in the base and then clean the ANALOG contact switches to remove oxidization.
To be sure, I just took apart the one I still have that I use on my C64 and sure enough; ANALOG switches.
Re:Could be worse (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:4, Informative)
I've seen private inventors being run over by big business, who has a tendency to totally ignore patents that isn't owned by themselves, too many times to feel the least bit upset when one of them actually get some compensation for his patents.
Re:Umm Sega has prior art, no? (Score:1, Informative)
Actually, you can go even earlier than that - the Mega Drive had the first one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AX-1E [wikipedia.org]
The AX-1E Analogue Pad was an analog controller for Sega Mega Drive video game console that was only released in Japan. AX-1E had variable-rate triggers and thumbsticks and it looked somewhat similar to the later-released Sega Saturn joypad. AX-1E never caught widespread attention, being compatible with only 3 games (After Burner II, Galaxy Force 2, F1 Hero).
Stop the sell of Gamecubes?? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:2, Informative)
Every decent camera made in the last 20 years already has this. How would such a button not be obvious to an electronics designer?
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:3, Informative)
The Atari 2600 joystick was five digital push-buttons on a circuit board (one for each direction, and the fire button). The console set a single bit for each button pushed. The joystick was read as digital data.
The Atari 2600 paddles, however, were analog. A strobe byte to start the capacitor discharging through the variable resistor inside the controller. The program would check several times per frame for a complete discharge, and use the time it took as the value of the paddle.
Funny enough, the Star Raiders touch pad (and Atari BASIC) was also an analog control. The row and column were the two paddles, and different resistances for each row or column. Read single keys only.
The Atari 2600 steering controller was digital. Two bits per paddle, in the pattern 01-11-10-00 so that only one bit changed as you rotated.
Lastly, the Atari 5200 joystick was entirely analog. Many gamers cursed its lack of return to center. Playing Pac-Man on that monster was not fun.
The Atari 7800 returned to the digital joystick mechanism (backwards compatible with the 2600), but added a second fire button (either fire button triggered the "fire" bit, but an analog method was provided to determine which fire button was pressed (left or right)).
The Coleco controllers were also compatible with the Atari 2600 and 7800 joysticks; I don't remember if the Coleco's keypad was compatible with the Star Raiders touch pad.
Finally, all of these controllers also work with the Commodore 64 and 128 joystick port. Exact same pinouts and functionality (digital and analog). Many times I used a 2600 joystick for Commodore gaming. (I really should try that Koala touchpad with some Atari games...)
That was far too long, hope someone finds it useful.
Re:I couldn't find info about Anascape (Score:1, Informative)
Because it's "all or nothing" doesn't make it a digital joystick. Analog switches have properties in that they can have in-between states, hence, analog. Ever try using an analog switch for digital purposes because they were available and easier to wire than some IC? Yeah, have fun with those in-between states causing weird hiccups if you're too lazy to take that into account (which of course assumes you already are if you're using the analog switches in the first place!).
LOL, ridiculous! Please google for a definition of "digital". The "weird-hiccups" you describe can only be "bounce" which is due to the bouncing back and forth that can happen during the slight instant a mechanical switch changes state. Regardless, switches (any switches!) are only ever "on" or "off" and are inherently digital.
Re:What. (Score:5, Informative)