Defining Video Game Addiction 354
1Up has a feature discussing where the line should be drawn when it comes to game addiction. The author speaks to researcher Neils Clark about some of the common characteristics of addiction, and how the high level of immersion in many modern games contributes to the mind's ability to drown out mundane tasks. We've discussed game addiction many times over the past several years. Quoting:
"If we're not all dribbling addicts, then why are we playing so much? Clark puts this down to a theory proposed by The Lord of the Rings author J.R.R. Tolkien — primary and secondary worlds. The primary world is our own real life. The secondary is the fictional world: literature, film, videogames, and so on. 'It used to be that the imagery and artistic intent had to be fully available before you could really "find" yourself in a written story,' Clark says. 'Immersion has progressed to the point where entering a world [inside a game] is almost automatic. At the point we're at, playing healthy not only means understanding immersion but [also] recognizing that these secondary worlds are designed to be more fulfilling than the primary. Learning to balance them is its own technology. It's something that humankind is in a process of developing, even if on a subconscious level for most gamers.'"
your assuming it's an addiction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What a load of... (Score:3, Insightful)
Television is addictive (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of our parents are addicted to television; I don't see any hysteria or treatment programs for them. In fact politicians and advertisers actively exploit that addiction.
Some argue that refined sugar is addictive, too, and most Westerners are in fact addicted.
Re:What a load of... (Score:3, Insightful)
fun != addiction.
Re:your assuming it's an addiction (Score:3, Insightful)
So despite nicotine being an enormously addictive substance, those millions of people who smoke cigarettes constantly and can't quit even though they want to but still manage to carry on normal lives aren't actually addicted?
It depends on your definition of addiction. (Score:5, Insightful)
Me? I believe that it's possible to become 'addicted' to video games, but the actual cases are probably so small that it shouldn't receive any more attention than gambling.
No, in all likelyhood labels like 'addicted to video games' are the previous generations ways of trying to understand our modern entertainment cycle. I'm sure their parents were worried they were 'addicted to comic books' or 'rock music'. I just cry a little cry for little Johnny who's mom will take away his Xbox 360 because she's afraid of him being 'addicted'. Parents need to stop guarding their children like pets and teach them to make smart decisions so that when Johnny is 20 and moves out (we're being optimistic here folks), he won't turn into an obsessed World of Warcraft fiend because he can finally access everything his parents never taught him how to deal with on his own.
It's the same as dad's who are sexually overprotective of their daughters, just as it's the same as parents who teach their kids that tobacco and drugs are bad-evil-horrible without giving them reasoning to justify that position, etc.
Teach kids to make smart decisions if you want them to be truly well off.
Re:your assuming it's an addiction (Score:4, Insightful)
Addiction has nothing to do with negative medical consequences if you continue. It's perfectly possible to be addicted to something otherwise harmless. And anyway, the lack of exercise that 60 hours/week of WoW implies will kill you just as dead.
Re:Television is addictive (Score:5, Insightful)
What part of the game is the addiction? (Score:3, Insightful)
Some games allow gambling within the game for example. If someone gambles in the game obsessively isn't that a gambling addiction rather than an addiction to the game?
What about item hording that many MMORPG players suffer from? Isn't that obsessive compulsive disorder rather than game addiction?
And the people who compulsively dress up as Furries and Cyber in Second Life. Isn't that just sex addiction?
Re:What a load of... (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the cases I've run into of "death by gaming" boil down to extreme lack of self care. Which is often present in addicts - ie, your typical malnourished junkie - but not in and of itself a sign of addiction. To draw an analogy, it's like how drinking and driving can kill you, but doesn't always indicate alcoholism (or even heavy habitual drinking - there are cases of DUI accidents occurring simply because the individual lacked the experience to judge their own level of intoxication). OTOH, it would be irresponsible to claim a lack of correlation between drunk driving and alcohol dependency - the correlation is there, but you can't assume one equals the other without examining each case in detail first.
A better rule of thumb for determining whether somebody is addicted to something is to ask them if they still enjoy it. Most people don't realize that your average addict has long since passed the stage where they want to quit, but are no longer able to. Your average sex addict doesn't enjoy boinking, your average alcoholic doesn't want to drink anymore, and your average smoker would love to quit (and probably has tried to at least once). This is one of the reasons why intoxicating substance use has a high rate of addiction - the brain chemistry gets literally rewired, to the point where stopping is traumatic. People have died from withdrawal, while others have developed psychosis, suffered from hallucinations, attempted suicide, and generally been miserable as hell.
"Addiction" gets applied far to frequently to abuse or overuse of any kind. Human stupidity and lack of common sense must be given their due, as must simple hedonism and self destructiveness. Real addiction is pathological. It might very well be purely psychological, with no chemical basis (or at least no external chemical basis), but on some level it's become a disease upon the affected person, and often times they'll be the first to admit it. Take the bottle away from a problem drinker, and the problem goes away; take the bottle away from an alcoholic and all hell breaks loose.
So, to get back on topic, I would define a gaming addict as a gamer who continues to play to great excess, despite a desire to quit. Somebody for whom turning it off, taking a break or unplugging is traumatic enough to make them jump right back in.
i can define video game addiction in two words: (Score:4, Insightful)
"civilization iv"
it's the only game i ever played where i would blink once, and it wuld be 6 am, blink again, and it would 6 pm. i had to bend and break the disc in order to have a life
"just one more turn" always turns into 500 more turns
that's some serious video crack right there that game
Re:What a load of... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It depends on your definition of addiction. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What a load of... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not a lot you can do about it, except wait for the victim to get their act together and come out of it.
I thought part of being an addiction is that you don't get out of it unless "something" happens. Most of the destructive ones it's crashing hard or running out of money or something like that - if they're just compulsive say like compulsive washers they can practicly ruin the rest of their lifes, and yours too if you wait around for it to change. I don't mean to be an insensitive clod and it's your life, but I'd fight or bail. Five years... what's to say it's not five more? Ten? You want to grow old like that? And if she comes about, expect it to be nasty either as in cracking up and for you to pick up the pieces or flipping out with OMG all she's been missing. Then again maybe you're enjoying it with a part time wife, but I doubt it...
Re:It depends on your definition of addiction. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not consult the DSM-IV for an actual definition of addiction, as arrived at by thousands of doctors interviewing millions of people and researching the topic? It's amazing to me that people who consider themselves experts in one area (technology) refuse to see that other disciplines have put in as much work figuring out their corner of the world.
Consider the following points from aforementioned diagnostic manual. These relate more directly to substance abuse but it's the same reward centers in the brain that are being stimulated:
1. TOLERANCE
2. WITHDRAWAL
3. LARGE AMOUNTS OVER A LONG PERIOD
4. UNSUCCESSFUL EFFORTS TO CUT DOWN
5. TIME SPENT IN OBTAINING THE SUBSTANCE REPLACES
SOCIAL, OCCUPATIONAL OR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
6. CONTINUED USE DESPITE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES
Just because someone spends a lot of time gaming doesn't mean he is addicted. But especially note #6. That one alone is a key component of addiction.
Personally, I'm fine with lots of people playing lots of video games. It just means that the gyms, trails and museums are that much less crowded.
Game addiction not degenerative... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Videogames are not addictive. (Score:5, Insightful)
The standard for addiction is when people give up on healthy developmental goals, understood however makes sense for that person, and opts instead for the addictive behavior or substance.
In other words, when you start to lose thing that matter to you, but carry on with the addictive behavior, that's addiction.
I have seen marriages dissolve because people played MMOs instead of spending time with their family. I've known people who have failed out of college and graduate school, because they became obsessed with MMOs. I play MMOs myself, and I can see it at work. The "secondary world" aspect misses the main addictive element of MMOs - which moves it from obsession to addiction. That's the reward structure: you can play and predictably get rewards.
One can be obsessed with Tolkien or Star Trek, in that the secondary world becomes more important than the real one. Since films, books and television don't offer an ongoing, unclosed reward structure that works to the extent that you put time into the activity, those obsessions don't become addictions.
That's why I think it makes sense to call MMO's addictive. They are always there - they never "satisfy" but promise the next reward, and then the next, and then the next. There is a social reinforcement element to it (which is an aspect of other addictions as well - alcoholism can certainly have a social aspect to it.)
The research observed that while people were playing, they identified the relationships with other players in-game as meaningful, but when they stopped playing, they ceased to describe it as such. To me, that is a lot like a heavy drinker's "bar friendships" - when they stop drinking, those friendships mean a lot less.
The defensiveness by gamers when confronted with this sort of analysis is depressingly predictable, as well.
Re:What a load of... (Score:3, Insightful)
at the end of 6 months, that person would have a boat.
All a gamer has at the end of six months is a little character that a corporation says you have and that you must keep feeding $15 each month to keep alive for you.
Re:What a load of... (Score:5, Insightful)
we all live in a fantasy world, sort of (Score:2, Insightful)
The so-called 'primary' world is already secondary. People live and aspire in a mental world where success tends to be productive of survival in the primary world. For example, the objects you see are all secondary cartoon representations of primary things. There are frequencies of light in the primary world, which are represented by different colors in the secondary world, but there is no color in the primary world. Similar things can be said about many or most of people's beliefs about the 'real' world.
The secondary world is of course strongly related to the primary one. If this were not so, it would be eliminated by natural selection. Many of the other secondary worlds, as discussed here, will change or disappear eventually for the same reason.
Just an observation.
Re:Television is addictive (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What a load of... (Score:5, Insightful)
.. Not a lot you can do about it, except wait for the victim to get their act together and come out of it.
You sir are an enabler. You most likely provide the power, the subscription, the food and probably don't care as long as she puts out every so often. If you've watched _any_ of the tv shows featuring the morbidly and often house bound obese, you usually find a loved one or close friend who is enabling them to get that overweight. If you're stuck in your house or even a chair/bed, some one has to bring you the food.
As long as you just put up with it and enable her to just sit around the house playing all day, she will so STOP it. Stop putting up with it and force the issue, is she truely satisfied with the state of her life being tied to the game?
I know I wasn't while I was addicted to a MUD for over a year.
Addiction.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why we play? (Score:4, Insightful)
To escape.. that's the reason.
Life is tough, games are fun. But, like anything else, gaming can be addictive, and if we don't learn to balance our play time with other activities. Well, it's not called addictive for nothing.
In the end, I suspect most people who are addicted to games, are also running away from something about themselves, who knows, low self-esteem, frustrations, etc..., so, really, just like drugs and alcoholism, in the end, addictive gaming isn't going to make things better, it just postpone the day you need to truly deal with the issues which you don't want to face.
But there are actually a few out there, who are hardcore gamers, and have no issues, they are just having plain ol' fun. I've seen actual couples who are both into gaming, and they love it.
So, unlike booze and drugs, gaming isn't always addictive in a bad way.
It is a question of defining one's quality of life and happiness.
Can they be happy, have a normal life and a gaming life at the same time? Do they still go to work, pay the bills, etc...
If yes to both questions, then, clearly, it's not addictive to these folks, they are just doing what they like to do and are obviously able to function well in what is most important for them, without shying from their responsibilities and duties.
I played games exclusively 1993-2005 (Score:4, Insightful)
now when i look back, i can understand that it wasnt the games that got me addicted. i was passing time with them - as if i was perpetually in waiting.
later observation of other people seemed to nail that idea, i saw many people taking to gaming to great extent when they were in a waiting period in their life - waiting for military service, marriage, between jobs, wake of big decisions about their life etc.
especially in school era, this 'waiting' concept climaxes, because the individual is actually passive, taking in information but not producing anything on his/her OWN initiative and planning. subconscious knows any homework, project, intermediary goal that is set are just temporary, therefore is still aware of the passivity of the individuals willpower.
once the individual is out of school and at the control of his/her own life for real, and when s/he sets a real objective, one soon discovers that all gaming habits change. first it lessens to the extent that it becomes a stress outlet, a relaxation, then some way to rest the mind, then, at some point, the struggle for reaching the objective that is set becomes a game in itself, and the person resorts to gaming less and less.
im at that point in my life. games bore me out of my mind now. and by games, i mean everything. i played everything from defender of crown in 1986 to crysis, from fate of atlantis, star control 2 to europa universalis 3.
then again i dropped out of college and set out to establish myself as an entrepreneur on the new world that is internet. that IS a game in itself.
Re:What a load of... (Score:3, Insightful)
So what do you say that being addicted to MMORPGs is like? What do you count as "addicted"? Because I'm sure that you can replace MMORPGs with any other activity (studying, reading, sleeping, work) and count it as an addiction. MMORPGs are no more addictive than any other thing you can do.
If you think being addicted to MMO's is anything like studying, reading or work you really don't understand just how far people get sucked in. All of the things you list, bar sleeping (which is a physical addiction of sorts) are generally classed as things you can do but feel no effects of withdrawal
People (such as myself) who have been addicted felt true panic at the thought of missing time in the game. We skipped meals, we blew off commitments, we made these games the primary thing we do in the day. Our need to play the game transcended simple "desire" or obligation and became a physical necessity for our mental well being. We no longer had the ability to say NO to the game. Many people who played WoW around me at the time had a love/hate relationship with the game.. they loved it but they knew they were powerless and it was screwing with their real life.
In truth I would assume that there is a small amount of people who truly do feel withdrawal symptoms from the other pursuits you mentioned. Particularly studying or working, where panic might arise from falling behind. The difference being nobody feels "calm" by the simple act studying/working if they are in academic/financial trouble, they feel the calm when they have achieved their goal of being knowledgable enough to "pass" (or pay the bills). They are not addicted to the act of studying or working, they are "addicted" to the concept of being in a stable comfortable situation in life - which is something we all share
I recognise there are many who play these games for fun, they play them too much and they think they should cut down. I don't slap the addict label on them just because of this. There is a line and I think only the beholder is truly able to make that distinction for themselves.
Different Than Football Fans? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do "football super fans" get an endorphin rush when their favorite player on their team? I've seen people get livid if they miss their favorite games. Why aren't these same people concerned for them? Oh yeah...being obsessed about football is "healthy" but a computer game is not.
Re:Addiction for idiots. It's like this: (Score:1, Insightful)
It is physical. You get endorphin rushes in your brain. You get addicted to the highs of PKing newbs.
Re:What a load of... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:What a load of... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've played MMORPGs. I played for 3 years. I almost lost my job to playing. I wouldn't go to sleep at night, I would try to get in a few hours at work. I used to dream about the game.
I also set aside my IRL goals to accomplish in-game goals. I quit building my IRL business so I could build my in-game business because it was easier.
Maybe it's not addiction, but the results are basically the same.
You may call me names or whatever because of the extremes I went to. There is a great deal of substance abuse in my family and I believe that my game playing was just an offshoot of that genetic predisposition.
To my credit (I think), I recognized the problem and I canceled my account. My life is back on track after a 3 year hiatus and my business is doing well enough, I may be able to leave my "day job" soon.
If I was still playing, i don't think I could say that.
One side of the issue is this (and it may piss some people off for me to say it), but in-game, it's easy to become "successful". it takes a trivial amount of real talent (intelligence, reflexes, strength, memory, etc) and a trivial amount of time in comparison to real-world pursuits, to accomplish any goal.
To imiprove your standing in the real world takes YEARS of work, day in and day out. I can level (or whatever your game mechanics allow) in just hours. In just a few months of really dedicated playing, I could be near the top of the heap in terms of skills. What real-world activity can you master in a non-trivial way, with a low degree of inborn talent, in just a few months? that's the allure.
It doesn't always stem from addiction. I notice the majority of MMO players are teens and college students who have a lot of free time. There's nothing wrong with wasting a little spare time (hello Slashdot), but there is a point at which it can impact your quality of life.
But that's just my story... fwiw.
For humors sake, let me add...
OMGWTFBBQPWNAGE!!
Oh.. sorry... flashback. :-)
Life ain't fun (Score:1, Insightful)
People get "addicted" to WoW, or any other imaginary world, because they find their actual reality lacking. I'm sure someone is going to get offended by this, but quite honestly it's the simple truth. If your real life was interesting and occupying, you wouldn't have the inclination to replace it with a fictional one. Have you ever heard of a company executive getting addicted? A successful writer? Hell, a successful anything? No, it's always the stay-at-home moms, the suburban folk, the anti-social college kids; the ones with so little happening in their current reality that an existence that consists solely of killing the same monsters over and over with other people (that last part being key for some of the less social people) is more appealing to them than whatever it is they do with the third dimension.
They play WoW because it's more interesting than their real life. What's interesting is, from what I've found out, most WoW players themselves readily admit this. Their loved ones, however, are usually much more loath to admit such a thing. Maybe because their real life includes said loved ones, so saying their life is boring is saying that, by extension, WoW is more interesting than their relationship? I can't answer that, though that seems like the most likely theory to me.
-GCH
Video game addiction checklist (Score:2, Insightful)
The world hates America and Americans: Check
World War III may start at any moment: Check
In regards to the above, America may start it: Check
Our country is filled with idiots: Check
Our leadership doesn't give a RATS ASS about it's constituency beyond getting their votes: Check
Our public school system is hopelessly broken and nobody gives a damn (see above): Check
If I was growing up in the world of today, I'd probably rather hide in Worlds of Warcraft than face how hopelessly fucked up things are. Hell, if I hadn't already gone through the whole online gaming phase back in the 90's, I'd probably be doing that right now!
Want to know why there is a "video game addiction" problem? Re-read the above!
Re:What a load of... (Score:3, Insightful)
In order to be an addiction, I'd say that there has to be a dependency on it. It's easy to call the game addicting. It's filled with all sorts of stuff to keep you playing.
But I've quit multiple times at the drop of a hat and wasn't shaking, convulsing, feeling empty, getting enraged at the slightest things, etc. I mean, where's the withdrawal symptoms?
Re:Videogames are not addictive. (Score:3, Insightful)
Caveats: I am not a researcher or psychologist. I am an MMO developer.
The major problem I have with the "addictive" label is that it makes a value judgment. There are few things that are "addictive" that are considered good things; the big exception is computer gaming, where the word is often used with a positive connotation. An "addicting" game is awesome! A better word would be "compelling", which has less judgment associated with it.
The research observed that while people were playing, they identified the relationships with other players in-game as meaningful, but when they stopped playing, they ceased to describe it as such. To me, that is a lot like a heavy drinker's "bar friendships" - when they stop drinking, those friendships mean a lot less.
One issue to consider is that some people who "get addicted" and lose themselves into a game, particularly an MMO with social connections, have very serious problems with the rest of their life. Often, these people have a case of depression. The interaction with other people online can provide a lot of benefits that help counteract the problem the person is experiencing. For example, if you feel worthless at work because you've been passed over for promotion after promotion, then you probably really like the feeling of being a needed and appreciated member of the party/raid in a game.
If the external condition changes, that can cause a re-evaluation of your situation. If the person above is recognized as a capable worker and gets a promotion in their job, he or she may not seek validation through the game anymore. So, the online relationships may become less important to the individual because they don't need it anymore. I don't see this as any different than forming a new circle of friends when your life circumstances change. The promoted person in our example may start making new friends and have less time for old friends that he or she doesn't come into contact as often. This is seen as fairly natural when we don't include the scary "online" or "gaming" aspect.
Also consider that the person who plays MMOs to the point where their relationship falls apart may already have problems with that relationship. They may be getting something from their online play that is lacking in their offline relationship. Yeah, it's better to address issues head-on and try to resolve them, but many people will avoid problems if they can. The game is just a convenient excuse.
The defensiveness by gamers when confronted with this sort of analysis is depressingly predictable, as well.
Well, sure. People do tend to get defensive when someone points a finger and says, "You're doing the bad thing!" Witness all the excuses that come up during a typical copyright discussion on Slashdot.
Most people can play games without it impacting their life. For the people that do become "addicted", how many of them are using gaming (or anything else) to fill a problem in their life? This is less of a problem with gaming a more of a problem with society. But, it's easier to blame the game than to expect people to change. So, for those of us that can game without letting it rule our lives, it gets a bit tiresome to see gaming demonized so easily.
Re:Addiction for idiots. It's like this: (Score:3, Insightful)
1. The definition of addiction seems to be in dispute given all of the comments on this topic. I would venture a guess that even among scientific professionals, it is not always clear cut. Therefore, trying to turn the topic from an interesting discussion of the addictive nature of video games, to a pedantic quarrel about the specific definition of addiction, doesn't seem very useful.
2. Who said anything about treating video game addiction as a chemical addiction?
Do you think that gambling addiction is a real addiction? If so, then I can assure you, video game addiction is just as real, because I have experienced it. If not, then I think you'd be fighting an uphill battle trying to convince anyone else.
Re: wasting time... (Score:3, Insightful)
Too much vitriol, AC.
Really enriching activities require effort to be put into it first, and that takes an energy threshold.
Part of the experience spread that leads some people to MMO addictions is that it is low threshold. Then they discover it's also a low reward spread as well, but by that point the day is shot again.
This connects to the psychology of Flow. If someone has trouble getting putting that special kind of effort that makes peak experiences possible, then they drift into some other low grade activity.
Well, it's that "a lot worse" (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it's that "a lot worse" that makes the big difference, really.
And basically there _is_ a dichotomy, in that one implies physiological modifications, the other doesn't. It's pretty binary. I'm not setting up a dichotomy between light grey and dark grey, but between something which either exists or it doesn't.
There's a difference between, basically:
A) I'd rather be doing something more fun, and it so happens that this virtual world is more fun than bickering with my spouse some more, and
B) I'm getting (physiologically and medically) depressed and nervous unless I light another cigarette.
In case A you're merely back to baseline if you don't, in case B you're genuinely a lot below baseline if you don't. That "going cold turkey from a hard drug is a lot worse" factor.
Case A is merely how the brain is wired to work. Your brain is wired to give you a "man, I'm bored" signal when nothing interesting happens, and a dopamine/serotonin/canbinoid/whatever-apropriate-signa shot when you do something fun. You're pre-programmed to seek pleasure and fun. If that's "addiction", we're all born addicts.
Your cat or dog is like that too. That's why you see the dog occasionally chasing his tail or begging to play fetch, or the cat pouncing on a stuffed toy. Because again there's that natural signal in the brain that says "go do something fun already."
The difference is that we humans built layers upon layers of culture, pre-conceptions and mis-conceptions about what you should be doing instead of that. And a society where you're supposed to, and have to, do something else to even survive. A cat just goes and hunts when it's hungry, and is free to sleep or play the rest of the time. You, by contrast have to go to work now so you can have something to eat next month. But you're not wired for that, you're still wired like the cat. That's where will power comes in. You must move your arse and do what you know you should be doing, instead of what your animal brain tells you to do.
And even before games, there still were people who ignored what they _should_ be doing and did what their brain signals told them instead. The village drunk or the bum living off begging are the same. They chose to go with the short term satisfaction (as in, "meh, it's better than ploughing") instead of long term planning ("but if I go plough, I'll have bread next year.")
Heck, over half the people out there are in their current job because of that. At some point they chose something like, "meh, playing prom queen / basketball jock is more immediately rewarding than learning maths", and now they flip burgers or man the gas pump instead of having a better paying job. Essentially they too did the same choice between (I) something immediately rewarding, and (II) something boring right now, but which pays off later. Or you see millions of fat people around you, because they chose the more fun activities (e.g., eating and sitting on the couch), instead of the boring and physically exerting ones (exercising and dieting.) There's no fundamental difference between that and the choice of a WoW "addict". They all essentially choose to go with the short-term rewarding things, i.e., with following the signals of that animal brain, instead of having the will power to do what they know they should be doing.
It's not a new factor. We're _wired_ like that, and have had people following their wiring for the past 200,000 years straight. All that's new is the hysteria of singling out games.
And at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that it's just some normal chemical reaction in the brains. Labeling it as the same thing as drug abuse only serves to obfuscate the real mechanisms and problems there.
Re:your assuming it's an addiction (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Videogames are not addictive. (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of people can drink - and even do cocaine and heroin, occassionally - without ruining their lives.
As soon as "Driving under the influence (of MMO games)" becomes a societal problem, I'll agree that we should classify these all in the same category. An alcoholic (or other substance abuser) is often physically addicted to the substance they abuse, and this causes additional problems when trying to break the addiction. In addition, the alcoholic also makes poor decisions, such as deciding to drive while their reactions are impaired, which causes direct physical harm to others on a regular basis. Trying to equate someone who plays too many games and may later regrets it to someone causing physical damage to themselves and potentially to others when abusing a substance seems to trivialize the problems of substance abuse.
Now, if you want to compare MMOs to other media, this is a lot closer to the mark. Some people watch TV to excess; the old stereotype was about the husband who came home and watched TV to ignore his wife, causing their marriage to fail. Sometimes introverted teenagers turn to books and seclude themselves from others while reading for hours upon hours; I know I did frequently. Where is your outcry for people who abuse those media? And, spare me the "worthwhile" argument; the most mindless game I've enjoyed had a lot more redeeming value than some of the garbage Star Trek novels I read as a teenager.
And, again, the reason why MMO games are singled out from other games, as they were in this particular discussion thread, is because of the social interaction and feedback that appeals to people. It's the same reason why people like talking on the phone, going to parties, watching football games with friends, or engaging in other very normal, socially-accepted activities that are also very enjoyable. The supreme irony here is the fact that some people think the internet isolates people instead of providing social opportunities.
I know a lot of people in the MMO dev business, so don't take it too strongly when I say that you're in the alcohol business.
Sorry, I'm not. I have friends that regularly get together and watch whole seasons of TV shows on DVDs for hours on end many nights per week. TV shows are meant to be compelling, making you want to watch one episode after another. The easy availability of TV shows on DVD means that you can watch a nearly endless number of shows. So, are DVD sellers also in "the alcohol business"? If so, then you're proving the, "I'm addicted to EATING!" crowd right in that the definition of "addiction" is no longer meaningful if it applies to anything someone likes to do. If not, then what is the significant difference? The only meaningful difference I can think of is the interactive nature of games compared to passive media; and, sorry, I have a hard time believing that all entertainment should be passively engaged just because a few people would rather play games than face the grim facts of their deteriorating relationship (or whatever other problem they're ignoring).
And, really, sports have caused the destruction of more relationships and caused significantly more real-world violence than video games have. So, why are you talking so negatively about MMOs and the like but not sports? Perhaps because the typical MMO player is a lot less willing to break your face than the aggressive football fanatic? ;)
Re:Videogames are not addictive. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're not owning to the element of MMOs that are distinctive: their unclosed, open-ended, more-time-you-put-in-more-reward-you-get-out nature, and I've seen the consequences of it at work in the lives of people around me, more so than with sports or television or film or books by a long shot.
No, I'm saying that the open-ended aspect is not nearly as important as the social aspects. Even though you can solo just fine in most recent MMO games, if you were to take out all the other people you would not have a compelling game. This is a significant problem for MMO games; you need a "critical mass" of people to keep the game interesting, and if your game falls below that number of people then the world starts to feel empty.
As far as the number of people you've seen affected, I'm going to assume since you're engaging in a discussion on Slashdot and have a 4 digit UID that you're a technologically-minded person. So, you should understand that yes, you are going to see a lot more people have troubles involving technology. A bartender is going to see a lot more people harmed by alcohol than MMOs, but it wouldn't be accurate to treat that bartender's experiences as authoritative when comparing the relative affects, either.
What I have seen is people who had balanced lives before they started playing, but then lost those balanced lives.
As people on Slashdot are fond of saying: correlation does not imply causation. Did people lose their balanced lives by playing the games as you assert, or did people have lives start to become unbalanced then become attracted to MMOs where they found a way to avoid dealing with their increasingly unbalanced lives?
Calling them "compelling" is disingenuous in the extreme, because it pretends that it is the fictional, fantastic nature that keeps people playing for 20 to 60 hours a week over several years, when you can log into any end-game forum and see that it really is about camping, high-end-raids, drops, and that entire cycle of seeking the next item.
If progress were the only compelling part of the game, then Progress Quest (http://progressquest.com/) would be just as compelling as WoW. It's not, although it's a humorous take on these types of games. The advancement that you focus on is only really important in a social context. Gaining levels and killing different colored enemies with bigger numbers has been a staple of computer and console RPGs since Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy were introduced. But, once you add the social element of MMOs, that's where the advancement becomes meaningful. My 70th level character becomes more impressive when you compare it to other characters in the game. In some cases, it's to show who has the biggest when looking down on lower level characters; in other cases, it's showing that the player is the "minimum height" required to join with other people to engage in those high end raids. The person solely concerned with loot and not with the other people in the group quickly find themselves without the group required to get all that cool loot in the "end game".
I'm not some school-marm who doesn't know one end of the controller from another: I've been playing MMOs since the days of LPMUDs and DikuMUDS, and I've seen the way they can play out.
And, to continue the metaphor, you're not dealing with some mustache-twirling villain looking to make a quick buck selling crack to unsuspecting children. I've done a lot of soul-searching and investigation into these issues and have read available information. I've had many friends from my MUD playing days fail out of university; I could say some failed out because they played too many MUDs, but really they were looking for any escape from their problems, including D&D, partying, or any of the other things they did in addition to MUDding in lieu of schoolwork. Some just couldn't hack college, but felt under a lot of pressure to attend college by their parents, for example, and they used MUDs and other a
Re:Videogames are not addictive. (Score:3, Insightful)
I compared you to the alcohol industry, and I think that comparison is accurate. Beer and wine manufacturers do not design their products to exploit alcoholism - yet they continue to market their products to populations who are, in fact, alcoholic. That 90% of the population can drink alcohol responsibly doesn't make alcoholism any less real.
As I said in a previous post, the comparison is wrong because there are no problems such as "driving under the influence" or "liver poisoning" with MMOs. Alcohol can be physically addicting, while MMOs have no physically addicting properties by definition. There are also significant positive elements to participating in online interaction as explained in Nick Yee's studies; alcohol has no similar benefits besides some possible health benefits in strict moderation. So, in my considered opinion, the comparison is incorrect on just about every level.
In the end, if you're not willing to take a psychological researcher as an authority in this area, you must be fairly set in your opinion and discussion will devolve into circular arguments. I hope you can continue to reach out to the people you've seen have troubles while playing MMOs; I also hope you can keep an open enough mind to understand that their core problems may be something beyond just the nature of the game.
Have fun,