99.8% of Gamers Don't Care About DRM, Says EA 554
arcticstoat writes "If you thought that EA might have been humbled by the massive Internet backlash against its use of SecuROM in its recent games, then you'd be wrong. Speaking at the Dow Jones/Nielsen Media and Money Conference, EA's CEO John Riccitiello claimed that the whole issue had been blown out of all proportion. 'We implemented a form of DRM and it's something that 99.8 per cent of users wouldn't notice,' claimed Riccitiello, 'but for the other 0.2 percent, it became an issue and a number of them launched a cabal online to protest against it.'"
Even if the stats are true... (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's assume the statistics are actually correct. 0.2% don't want DRM, 99.8% don't care, and 0% are in favour. That should be enough of a message to realise it shouldn't be included. Especially when that 0.2% can damage the reputation of the game by giving shocking reviews all over the internet.
Well I always felt the numbers were inflated (Score:3, Interesting)
on the side claiming to be adversely affected by DRM.
I put a lot of them down; and I mean a large percentage; to those just hopping on the band wagon. The "got to get my two cents in and feel as if I belong" crowd. Cost them nothing to claim to be part of the aggrieved party. It wasn't like they were going to buy it anyway but now they can claim offense which lets them continue feeling put down by the system/man/the other guy/etc.
Liar (Score:3, Interesting)
Population as of 16:26 GMT (EST+5) Oct 15, 2008 according to census.gov
Assuming everyone in the world is a gamer, it would take 13,460,606 people worldwide speaking out against this to prove that statistic to be incorrect.
Assuming the same for the U.S., it would take 610,836 people speaking out against DRM to prove that incorrectly.
I'm sure that a significantly powered site spread to Slashdot, Digg, Reddit, Stumbleupon, and Facebook would probably demonstrate 610,836 people against DRM with no duplicates.
It would be even easier if we assumed that only 50% of the US plays video games. Only 305,418 people would have to sign it. That's probably how many people visit Slashdot a week.
Re:Games not on Wii (Score:5, Interesting)
Well I'm not the OP but I don't do PC gaming just console(Xbox 360 or Wii):
"For example, a lot of indie games are PC exclusives because the developer isn't a big enough company for a WiiWare license."
Unfortunately in that case I can't play it, (unless they do a Linux version). I'm sure there's some gold out there, but the signal to noise ratio has IME not been worth it.
Frankly I see computer games as being for fun and not as another job - hearing what people go through to get games running on a PC sounds far too much like the bits of my job that I hate to pay for the privilege of doing it.
One lost one here (Score:1, Interesting)
my experience with EA DRM when I purchased Black & White 2, (it wouldn't install, because there was something on my system it didnt like) was a definite factor in me not buying spore.
Re:Someone failed statistics (Score:3, Interesting)
I almost agree. And by the way, that was a very long post for being first, I was impressed.
Regarding the difference in something like PC Gamer magazine. I never used to get the magazine but I saw ones occasionally. It's true, I used to go "whoa, I can't wait to see that game." Now it's more like, if anything, "That looks like it has really good graphics." That's about it. There were games that I played way back when (and I'm still young) that I loved because of the game mechanics, the story, the graphics, etc., all combined, and could not wait until I could play the next one in the series. Examples that come to mind are Baldur's Gate (I completely fell in love with it - and I first played it from the library, which had a copy!) and Monkey Island (the first Monkey Island is amazing). Another series that started out great was Age of Empires, IMO, and even something like the original Red Alert.
But now, not being a FPS fan in the first place... the games coming out are usually pretty generically boring. They basically all appeal to two things: amazing graphics and more impressive violence. I have played a few recent games that I actually liked - Crysis was pretty cool, as was World in Conflict; in fact, World in Conflict was really cool and surprisingly impacting as far as thinking about real life.
What am I saying... I'm saying that ingenuity in developing games seems to be lost. Re-hash the same things that seem to work (bigger and better graphics, more violence) and hope it sells enough to pay to produce the next one.
Time is a huge issue now for me as well, I barely play any games at all. Married, graduate school, working full time and music as my main hobby... games are not big in my life. But I play some small things still. I am playing Avernum 5, a small shareware game (which I bought) made by Jeff Vogel. It's completely story-driven, it's even in 2D, but the series has a history of story-driven adventure/RPG that I first found in Exile II back in 1995 or something.
With regard to consoles, I actually still resist having one... mainly because I don't think the games there are really any better, just "easier" to get going. Plug it in and boom. But the same problem with the games themselves exist.
As for not caring about DRM, I don't care about DRM either, because I don't play enough games to care, and those that DO play enough games to not care probably don't care eithre because they constantly play games and spend all their money and gaming computers...
Re:Games not on Wii (Score:3, Interesting)
What do you do if you want to play a game that's only for a console you don't have? Either you don't play it, or you buy the console. It's got to be a damn good game to justify the cost of a console, and it would have to be a damn good game for the gp to try to run it on Windows. I'm with him: there's enough fun to be had on my Wii and PS2 that I don't see the need to upgrade to anything higher tech just for the sake of slightly more photorealistic graphics with same-ol' same-ol' gameplay.
Most people wouldn't notice... (Score:3, Interesting)
That part of the anti-DRM argument, though philosophically valid and justified, isn't really going to get much attention in the 12-25yo market that makes up probably the same 99.8% of their revenue--and always has. Not to mention, with all the online components of games, people are pretty used to the idea of "server goes down, game dies" not to mention the idea of paying for it more than once and the obvious fact that it is eventually just going to go away.
I'd like to share an experience I had. (Score:3, Interesting)
I must be one of those who care able DRM. I recently bought Mass Effect, before I was aware of its draconian DRM policy.
I started the installer, and when the End User License Agreement came up I decided to read through it.
In the end, I decided I couldn't agree to their end user license agreement. I tried to take the game back to the store. Unfortunately, the clerk behind the counter refused to allow me to return the game because it was open software. I told her that I couldn't read the license agreement until I had already purchased (and opened) the software. She was polite but unsympathetic to my plight. I asked her to get me her manager. She returned (without her manager) and said her manager told her she cannot accept open software.
I told her that should would then have to go get her manager because I need to know who it is who is refusing my legitimate refund. I explained that when this went to court, I would need his name and position in the store. She returned (again without her manager). She proceeded to hand me a business card with her manager's name on it, and a phone number for the company's customer support number.
Not being one to give in too easily, I sat down on the bench by the refund counter and called the customer support number. The man on the phone was also rather polite as I explained the situation. He looked up the receipt number, and through checking my credit card (I'm guessing) explained to me that I had quite a purchase history at their store and very few returns. He saw no reason why the store couldn't handle the refund and asked me to hand my phone to the sales representative.
The sales representative balked, and claimed, "I don't want to get into the middle of this." and wouldn't take my phone to talk to the service rep. I asked her to get her manager.
She left and returned (again, without her manager) and explained to me that her manager refused to talk to me because I threatened litigation. So, I explained this detail to the person from customer support with whom I was still conversing with on the phone. The customer support person chuckled, and said he could do the refund through the corporate channels, but unfortunately it would take a couple weeks for the processing to go through. I said that was unfortunate but acceptable. I asked him if I should hand the game to the lady at the customer service desk. Then the guy said, "No, that won't be necessary. Just take the game home with you, don't tell them what we have done for you, and consider it a gift from us."
Sure enough, 2 weeks later I got a gift card for the exact amount of the game + tax. I'd be a little disappointed about being refunded in store credit versus a return credit on my credit card but I do tend to buy a lot from this particular store so I decided to let it go.
I'd like to comment the only downside to this is that it is unlikely EA will every find out about my dissatisfaction with their EULA and DRM. Chances are the company ate the cost themselves, and they will never find out about it.
In the end, I was happy with the result from the company. I decided to install the game, since I have less of an issue with DRM and Freeware.
For the record, Mass Effect kicks some serious ass. I'm actually glad I got to keep the game.
Re:Someone failed statistics (Score:3, Interesting)
Like you, I was once a computer gamer. I remember having a Hercules graphics card (like EGA, but in monochrome). Test Drive 3 was the first game I played with a sound card. I remember DOS boot disks. Before that, I had to write my own games - demos used to be pages of code in magazines. "Looks like fun? Code it up and give it a try." So I've been a PC gamer for a long time -- long before it was cool.
I played a lot of UO (admittedly, on a POL server.) I met a few friends on there - one even sent me a baby blanket when my daughter was born. We moved to NWN, and there was talk about moving to NWN2. I played a LOT of NWN, but I was never interested in spending hundreds of dollars upgrading my system just to play another game.
I decided that I wasn't going to bother fucking around every year or every release with a new video card or a new stick of RAM, or removing programs to play a game, &etc. Why spend $300 on a new card to play a $60 game when that same game will be ported to a console and is guaranteed to work?
I got a Wii last year. My wife and daughter both play it. Yes, it's a big DRM dongle that plays only the Wii titles. That's fine, because I knew that when I bought it. But you know what? It's going to work. I can buy any Wii title, put it in, and know that I can play it. Some games are crap, which is why I get them out from the library first. You can't do that with a PC game.
In fact, I got rid of my Windows install completely. My home machine runs Ubuntu, and I don't game with it at all anymore.
Have fun, PC game industry. You made it such a pain in the ass to play games on the PC that you've lost a lot of people.
Re:Games not on Wii (Score:3, Interesting)
Frankly I see computer games as being for fun and not as another job - hearing what people go through to get games running on a PC sounds far too much like the bits of my job that I hate to pay for the privilege of doing it.
The reason you hear about the people that have problems is because they come on the internet to explain their problem and get help. You don't hear much from the people for which it "just worked".
The greater array of hardware can cause issues, but it may not be as widespread as it appears.
The most tweaking I have to do on a modern game is choose a resolution and quality, and most games have a function to estimate how high to put the settings. Having this choice is more complicated, I suppose, but that is a feature, not a bug, because the game scales. If you get nicer hardware or you come back to play it years later, you can make it look nicer.
If the game is old, there can be some issues (sometimes have to load up an emulator), but I can't put my SNES carts into the Wii either - so no real difference.
Re:because (Score:3, Interesting)
I disagree about the price of software. Let's look at other forms of entertainment:
DVD Movies: 2 hours (repeatable), $15+ ($60 for bluray new releases!)
Theatre Movies: 2 hours, $7+ per person.
Games: 20+hours (highly variable and repeatable), $60 (Some games are less than that, but many are more. Call it an 'average'.)
Bowling: 1 hour, $10 per person.
DVDs are $7.50 per hour if you only do them once. Theatre Movies are $3.50 per hour. Games are $3/hour if you only play for 20 hours. Bowling is $10 per hour.
I dunno, seems games are a pretty good deal. Add in the fact that the best games have entertained me for 200+ hours, and some get thousands, and they are an even better deal.
Things are worth what you are willing to pay for them. Judging software against hardware isn't a fair comparison, either. Without the software for the hardware, it's worthless to most people. And vice versa.
Re:EA Then and Now (Score:3, Interesting)
I have set up a few people with a ghost image of their computer so that they can go back to a clean working computer. This way if the game DRM screws up their machine they can get it working again. It works but no one should have to go that far to play computer games. This is on a computer that ONLY plays games. No surfing, no email, games only. So far only single video card setups, so the whole sli/crossfire thing is not an issue.
It is like the game companies do not want you to have more then one game or more then game company's software on your computer. Stick with all company ABC's game your fine. Put company ABC and company abc123's games on and you have issues.
Re:Model-view-controller pattern (Score:3, Interesting)
Okay, to take an extreme example, coding something that will work on both an X-BOX and a DS-Lite.
First I list everything that differs in the specs from two machines available in 2004Q4 through 2005Q3:
I can see how input has to go through different kinds of processing before it hits the model. I also see six times as many pixels on an Xbox as on a DS, so a model with four to eight times as many vertices and four to eight times as much texture should look OK on the more powerful system, right?
Things need to be tweaked, rearranged, perhaps even omitted altogether depending on the visual display and controllers you have to work with.
Yes, the model would be scaled down, tweaked, rearranged, minor features #defined out, but ideally not completely rewritten by hand in three different languages introducing different defects ("bugs") into each version. I thought hand-translating the entire model per console was supposed to have died after the 16-bit generation: the Saturn, PlayStation, and N64 could all run C, albeit with huge differences in the view.
Re:Even if the stats are true... (Score:3, Interesting)
Online activation kills the second-hand market, and that's what they're largely going for.
CD-based copy protection kills the casual copying market, which may well generate more sales. In fact, I don't doubt one bit that making it difficult to copy the CD means that fewer people will pirate the game--the question is whether or not the licensing costs (of the copy protection) are justified compared to the extra sales generated and the perception of the company. If copy protection ever gets too intrusive, the latter may be what kills it.
Re:EA Then and Now (Score:3, Interesting)
Ever since I started using laptops I have always used NoCD cracks, which can be used to circumvent DRM, but I just wanted them to not have to have the flippin disk in the drive whenever I felt like playing. It's bearable having a pile of gaming disks next to your desktop, but nobody these days wants to carry around their whole gaming collection with their laptop - not to mention that it's a waste of power spinning up a disk just to authenticate, and you risk damaging it in some makes of drive if you're using the laptop on a relatively unstable surface like.. a lap.
Likewise, nobody wants to have a multitude of DRM rootkits gradually making their machine more and more sluggish as they install games over the years. We all know that DRM is only a hassle for the paying customers - it really makes no sense.
Re:EA Then and Now (Score:3, Interesting)
Hey, it's their business.
If they're so confident that we're a small contingent, they can continue to release broken games, and I'll continue to buy games from other companies that don't limit the number of times we're allowed to install the games we paid for with (non-trivial amounts of) money.
Re:EA Then and Now (Score:3, Interesting)
Not that I advocate such things, but it makes me wonder what kind of epiphany the public would have if there were to be a massive DDoS attack against the authentication servers of these companies.
Re:EA Then and Now (Score:4, Interesting)
potential customers will actually take their money and walk away.
I would guess most gamers aren't quite like me -- DRM wasn't really an issue until Spore.
But I am deadly serious [slashdot.org].
If anyone wants to start a petition, I'll sign.
It might even be interesting to put some money into escrow, to show how much we are actually ready to spend -- but escrow is a lot trickier than a simple petition.