Will Consoles Merge Back Into PCs? 356
GamePolitics is running an interview with Randy Stude, president of the PC Gaming Alliance, discussing the future of gaming on the PC and the console. Stude has some interesting thoughts regarding the long-term viability of stand-alone consoles:
"The guts of every console should tell you that the capability is there for the PC to act as the central point for all the consoles. If you bought a PC and as part of that equation you said, Okay, when you're on the phone with Dell, 'Hey, Dell, on this PC, this new notebook I'm buying, can you make sure it has the PlayStation 4 option built into it?' Well, why not? Why shouldn't that be the case? [Sony is] certainly not making any money on the hardware. I mean, can't they create a stable enough environment to specify that if Dell's going to sell that notebook and say that it's PlayStation 4 [compatible] that it must have certain ingredients and it must meet certain criteria? Absolutely they could [do] that. Are they going to do it? I don't know. I predict that they will. I predict that all of the console makers over time will recognize that it's too expensive to develop the proprietary solution and recognize the value of collapsing back on the PC as a ubiquitous platform."
No.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Never gonna happen.... I simply can't see that ever happening. It would at least partially mean that companies like Sony or Nintendo need to build components and allow interoperability with what is essentially an open platform. It means releasing control, they won't do that.
Besides, consoles are mostly played at the TV and installed in a fixed way like a DVD Player. It is simply convenient. Connecting a laptop to your TV? Cumbersome!
I personally think that PC gaming is on the way out except for a few niches. My brother bought GTA4, and we simply can't get to run it on his 2 year old PC. He now faces the choice: pay about 1500€ for a new rig in order to play GTA4 at acceptable rates. Or spend +/-450€ on a PS3 and buy the game again....
I recommended him to get the PS3.... Throw in a USB mouse and a USB keyboard and he can play like he is used to.
I don't think it would happen... (Score:3, Insightful)
I honestly could see the reverse happening though. Hell, it already is happening to a degree with the PS3 (although most people never use it as a PC and that certainly isn't a major factor in PS3 sales). The only major player I could see not doing it (at least for a while) would be Nintendo, since they are traditionally (not counting the networking features of the Famicom) conservative about adding non-gaming related features to their machines.
Pretty unlikely (Score:4, Insightful)
Ironically, though, the biggest weakness of consoles (that they are "closed boxes") is also their greatest strength and, I believe the reason why this article is wide of the mark.
After all, with a console, you buy a game, you go home, you stick it in the drive and you play the game. Even with Sony's best efforts to thwart that on the PS3 by demanding firmware updates every 10 minutes, the system hasn't changed much. By contrast, two of the last 4 PC games I bought (Spore and Far Cry 2) have required me to faff around with drivers before they would run. Now, sure, I'm a reasonably advanced user by the standards of the general public (though a veritable neophyte in slashdot terms), but this is awkward and irritating.
There's also the price issue. A console will set you back a few hundred dollars, but you then don't need to replace it for 4-5 years. A gaming PC will set you back at least twice as much (and frequently more) and will generally be obsolete within two and a half years, unless you're willing to sink a lot of money into interim upgrades.
Now, even if you get around the ease-of-use issue by basically putting a console inside the PC (anybody remember the old Mega-PC, which had a Megadrive/Genesis inside a PC case?) you are still going to be in a situation where the thing is locked into a piece of hardware with a far faster obsolescence cycle.
This is before you even start to get into ergonomic issues, such as the fact that the general usage pattern is that people use PCs with a monitor at a desk, but play console games on their TV while sat on the sofa.
The greatest strength of consoles (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I don't think it would happen... (Score:1, Insightful)
Besides which, Nintendo has the least incentive to merge like this. They aren't losing money on hardware to begin with - they're making a profit. So merging would basically be money OUT of their pocket.
I can think of a few reasons why it wont happen (Score:4, Insightful)
1) The games industry is already shifting away from the PC to closed platforms like consoles because they claim they make more profit due to not having the piracy issues they get on the PC. To them, this would be seen as a step backwards.
2) If one company manages to screw up the latest console plugin does the company want to be associated with that- Microsoft owned up to the original RROD problems and put money aside to deal with it, they've resolved the issues but to this day get slated for the problem. Would they really want to put themselves in a position where the latest Dell notebook has poor venting around Dell's hardware design is making their component fail and they get the blame for it? It's one thing if it's their fault, but if it's a 3rd party's fault and they risk the blame?
3) Do they really want to spend money offering support to the various hardware developers that want to implement their addons? Do they want to deal with compatibility issues? Do they want to spend and money time keeping their systems secure whilst keeping them open enough to integrate?
Consoles as the secure PC platform (Score:5, Insightful)
PC's are too "open" for the comfort of many industries. By moving focus to more restrictive consoles, companies regain their control. Once they have control, the ability to push ads you can't block, monitor what you're doing for marketing, and limit what you are allowed to do or not do with media, consoles will eventually come full-circle so that users will eventually be using them for the same things PC users have been, only in safe, friendly, controlled environment.
Suckers.
Re:No.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Imagine that! A computer from 2003 running a game from 2004 with no problems! And it probably would've done it even without upgrading the graphics card.
now we know who funds malware (Score:2, Insightful)
So its the console makers funding the malware bot networks to make PCs so crap :) ahhhhhhhhhhhh
Closed system suck tho. And making a PC with cheapest parts + $99 video card can be done cheaper than a ps3, especially outside USA, and thats the key here, OUTSIDE usa, where its a known fact that those corps like to sell in USA low, and over charge outside to make americans feel special.
Re:No.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I have one thing to add to this.
MMO's are preferably played on PC's.
The multitude of abilities are more easily accessed via keyboard and mouse, and there is a guarantee of enough space for patches/expansions/what have you.
For every other genre though, i agree a console is better.
Keyboard/mouse suck on console! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Except that for the PS3, there will still be games made for it in 5 years. A 5 year old PC? Upgrading? I don't think so. So, yes, I could upgrade the graphics card for 100€ and not be sure that it works correctly. That's the main problem: I have no idea if "just buying a GeForce 9800" will do. Nobody can guarantee me that.
My brother buys his games anyway.... So 50€ for a boxed PC game or 50€ for a boxed PS3 game are no difference. The games coming out in 2 years will not work on his PC and as such he will have to fork over those 800€-900€ (you're really optimistic for gaming grade hardware). Every, fucking, two years. The PS3 will happily run in two years with all the games coming out for it. Sure, the next gen console will be around the corner.
Longevity for consoles is much larger than longevity for gaming PCs.
This goes back and forth (Score:5, Insightful)
This is going to be like the whole debate with thin client and fat client, centralized vs. decentralized computing, etc. It's always going to go back and forth.
Back in the PSX and PS2 era, it became stupid to try to keep up with PC gaming. A really good video card would cost as much as a proper console and the console would remain playable far longer whereas the computer would become outdated far more quickly. Game on consoles, work on computers, no-brainer.
With this generation, the consoles are getting too damn expensive. By the time you factor in accessories, you easily spend as much on them as PC's now. It's actually getting back to the point where if you already need a PC, it's just cheaper to spend extra to turn it into a gaming machine rather than gettin a work PC and a gaming rig.
Xbox 360 - was around $299
Extra controller - $50
Charging kit for a controller - $30
wireless adapter - $75
if you decide the 20gb drive is too small, you want the 120 - $200
memory card to serve as a backup to the hard drive - $50
headphones so you don't wake up the read of the house at night - $75
$779. And if you decided to upgrade the TV from the ol' CRT to a proper HDTV to look nice with the console, $1000 and up.
There will always be both. (Score:5, Insightful)
The PC is optimized for one person to use at a distance of maybe 0.5 m. It sits on a desk. It is a lousy multi-player device.
The console is optimized for multiple people to use at a distance of 2 m. It sits in the living room. It is an excellent multi-player device, and, even if equipped with a keyboard and mouse, a highly inconvenient personal computer.
This is in addition to the cost reasons already cited.
Re:This goes back and forth (Score:4, Insightful)
Your post almost makes a good point about spending money on a gaming PC instead of a console except the total is not $1000 and up. It's simply the price of the console. $300-$400. Current generation video cards alone will meet or double that cost. Really, it was a stretch to try to include all of those accessories as a TCO for a gaming console when really it is just the cost of the console for the average gamer.
As stated many times before the main strong point of consoles (used to be at least) that they just worked. Buy game, put game in console, play game. No drivers, no wacky DRM raping your dataz and privacy, no "oh wow I really need to upgrade my videocard!" moments. There will always be a place for PC gaming but to think it will extinguish the market for consoles is foolhardy.
Re:No.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, unlike Sony or Microsoft, Nintendo is selling their Wiis at a profit - and they're still in short supply, not having dropped their price by even one penny since they were first introduced, unlike the other two.
Thursday,December11,200822:18 [slashdot.org]
So, if you're #1 in the marketplace, and, unlike your competitors, you're making a profit on every unit you sell, why would you want to give it up? It's not like you can't find the XBox selling for as low as $199 new, but people would still pay more for a Wii.
Re:No.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus, of course, some first person shooters, roleplaying games, and real time strategy games allow fan-generated content, and it's sure as hell easier to mix and match new features and new levels with a keyboard, mouse, and multi-window editor and file explorer at your disposal than a game pad.
A console is less work to set up and has less hassle for operating system maintenance, firewalls, and anti-virus. It's also cheap. And when a generation of consoles is relatively new, they also have graphics performance reasonably close to the top end for PCs. But the PC is far from dead.
Players per machine (Score:3, Insightful)
And where exactly would a person use a keyboard and mouse in their living room?
And where exactly would people use four keyboards and mice around one monitor? There are a lot of families that can afford one console and one HDTV, and one PC (with integrated graphics) and monitor for Firefox and OpenOffice.org, but not four PCs, four monitors, and four copies of each game.
Re:No.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Multiplayer among gamers in one household (Score:3, Insightful)
1500[credits]? I'll advise you to do some more research, as I've done recently for a potential new gaming PC. You can upgrade your entire system to a decent new rig for under 600[credits].
How many players can play at once on a 600[credit] system? Where I live, I can buy an LCD TV + Wii + three controllers for 1000[credits], compared to 2400[credits] for four gaming PCs.
Also, PC games are generally cheaper.
Not if you need four copies for four players, the way most major-label PC games are set up. I can buy a WiiWare game for about 10[credits], and I can play it with neighbors/cousins that I happen to be babysitting.
Re:No.... (Score:2, Insightful)
I was thinking along the lines of X2 6000+ / 8GB / 4870. Which is do-able for under £500.
I certainly wouldn't buy nVidia hardware at the moment due to all the noise about high fail rates.
PS3 also wouldn't be my 1st choice of console. There's only 2 platform exclusive games that look to be worth playing on it, compared to about 12 on the 360 and over 25 on the Wii.
In fact you could get a 360 AND a Wii for the price of a PS3... I'd even recomend that combination over a PC if you were just looking for somthing to only play games on.
Re:No.... (Score:3, Insightful)
That would do a lot for it, but just think about the environment though: a gamepad for a console is great to just kick back on the couch with just as you'd watch TV. You hold the hold controller in your hand.
Now imagine a keyboard/mouse. While I certainly hold my keyboard in my lap sometimes, I pretty much need to be at a desk to use a mouse. And couch+desk doesn't work well. Office chair (a comfortable one) + desk does.
Also, given the amount of text in most MMORPG's, they'd either have to scale it up (taking up more screen space), or you'd need to sit closer to the screen.
So, if in the end, I want to be at my desk, ~2-3 feet from the screen, with a keyboard and mouse . . . what really is left of the console? It makes just as much sense to just use a computer at that point since it's already setup to be used that way. Not to mention that with the rising costs of consoles and the falling cost of computers, you're probably not going to be paying much difference in price between the two systems.
those who do not learn from history... (Score:3, Insightful)
PCs are PCs and consoles are consoles. If hybridization didn't succeed for the Odyssey^2, Commodore 64GS, Coleco ADAM, Atari XEGS, Amiga CDTV, CDi, Sega TeraDrive, Amstrad Mega PC, FM TOWNS Marty, and 3DO -- why would it succeed now?
NO dotdotdotdot! (Score:3, Insightful)
Uhhh in October I built a PC that can run GTA4 smoothly for about 550.00 USD. I could have easily brought the price down and still run the game "at acceptable rates". I dunno where you pulled that exorbant price figure from, but you can see the recommended system specs here - http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10/gta-iv-pc-delay.html [wired.com]
You can meet or exceed those recommended specs for PC for the price of a PS3 + USB keyboard + USB mouse + buying the game again. Just check out some systems on an online PC store (tigerdirect is the only comparable option to newegg and zipzoomfly that ships outside the USA that I know of) or by building it yourself.
Re:No.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Take the latest Valve game, Left 4 Dead for example. It could support keyboard and mouse on the Xbox easily but it's disabled because players using this setup would gain an unfair advantage over everyone else.
The fact is that consoles are way too restrictive. You can't change your video card for a better one. The resolution is limited, controlers are limited. The online play is limited to MS/Sony servers.
Most important of all, there is no modding community for consoles. Barely no shareware or OSS games and the systems are contaminated with DRM.
On the other hand, there is nothing the consoles can do that the PC can't. Nothing prevents you from using a TV and controllers with a PC.
Re:No.... (Score:3, Insightful)
And yet you've only named a handful of titles for the last gen console, which while is still selling nearly as much as the PS3, is largely irrelevant on a topic about what is perceived current generation.
And no one in their right mind would consider limited support fully functioning support, which is what is implied throughout this topic.
As far as most people having mouse and keyboard, who knows how many are USB or not. Furthermore, we don't know how many PC's a person has in their home, and to what extent they're being used while someone is using their console. This makes your point rather moot.
isn't this all based on current trends? (Score:2, Insightful)
His point: with a small amount of additional hardware and maybe a "Sony PS4 card" installed any good PC can have console specs. What most posters then did is decide that PCs need to be upgraded to keep up with new games while consoles work for years.
Here's a few points:
1) Console hardware does not magically upgrade itself. Meaning: if you have console spec hardware when you buy your PC, in 4 years you STILL HAVE CONSOLE SPEC HARDWARE, wow what a concept. You would have the exact same ability to play games as those who are running it on a Console. So the PS4 chip just says, oh, this is a PS4 game put in the blueray, I'll treat it like one and BAM the PC is a console.
2) PCs need to be upgraded to run newer games because the games for PC are coded for PCs not for consoles. Ok, this is a difficult one, but stay with me. PC games keep having higher and higher Sys Reqs right? but Console games are stuck with a set of specs. The same specs as when the console was first built. The reason the games for PC need more power is because they are designed to use bleeding edge tech. if you have a PS4(tm) certified PC and you get a PS4 game.... It's designed for a PS4, not a PC so it works perfectly fine on the 4 year old PC. The advantage is that over 4-5 years (like we saw with the original Nentendo) game makers just get better at utilizing the console's abilities to make games with better graphics etc.
I'm sorry I'm a bit ruffled, but it seems like the discussion went completely away from what was stated.
If you could buy a PC that has a blueray drive that, when you press a button, opens (without you having to boot up your PC), and when you put in a PS3 game, it quick boots to the PS3 console how much more would you pay for that PC than a normal one? I'd throw in a couple 100. Because I KNOW that it will always be able to run ALL PS3 games.
There was never any reason for consoles to exist.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see wasting my money on a console when for $100 more I can get a PC that will do all the same things plus a LOT more!
Re:PC/Consoles (Score:3, Insightful)
The big problem with consoles is portability.
What's more portable than a DS Lite? You can't stuff a PC in your pocket either, and netbooks can't keep up with PC game graphics unless the game is designed to run on desktop PCs made four years ago, like WoW or something.
Re:I don't think it would happen... (Score:1, Insightful)
...because one of the primary reasons people buy consoles is that it is both cheaper than a gaming PC and, for a lot of people, easier to set up.
I don't buy consoles anymore. They don't make any sense now that there is a PC in most homes.
I don't see the point of buying a console that won't play the games licensed or published by a competing console. I'm not buying two or three consoles just to play all the games I'd like to waste my time with. If it's a serious game, there will be a PC version. If there isn't, I just assume they didn't like the color of my money and move on.
Not to mention the fact that my two year old PC will blow the doors off every console out there. When the next console comes out at $500 - $600 that outperforms it, I can upgrade this PC with a new (or restocked) $120 video card and blow the doors off the new one and still play all the same games.
How you do upgrade the video card of a Playstation or add more RAM? You have to throw it in the trash and buy a PS2. How do you upgrade the video card of a PS2 or add more RAM?
See where that's going? When this PC starts showing its age, I won't have to heave it in the bin.
I have three games for Sega Genesis that I absolutely loved. When that Genesis was replaced by a Sega Saturn years later, imagine my dismay to find that the little cartridges of my favorite games wouldn't fit. Sega wouldn't let me play the games I'd already bought from them. Good thing someone made a Genesis emulator for the PC so I can still play them.
Even before money got so tight, I didn't throw it away on bad deals and I view all game consoles as a bad deal. When I feel like playing a video game, I know where to find them in my start menu.