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Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games

How Gamers View Their MMOs 132

Posted by Soulskill
from the ooo-shiny-objects dept.
GamerDNA is trying out what they call their Discovery Engine, a system that uses metadata from users to classify games and identify which have similar traits. Massively describes it thus: "Once the gamerDNA community continues to contribute to something like this, it builds up an enormous database of terminology based on actual player knowledge, not just shiny PR words thrown together to promote a game. These search terms can end up being unique to a specific genre, and ultimately lead gamers to exactly the types of games they're looking for." GamerDNA tested the system out on some of the popular MMOs, and they've posted the results. They look at how MMO players identify themselves within the game, how they describe the setting, and what basic descriptive phrases they use in reference to the games.
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How Gamers View Their MMOs

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 15, 2008 @03:04AM (#26117433)

    You're in a giant wheel inside a cage. You paid $50 for the wheel, and it costs you $15 a month to rent the cage it's in.

    Alongside you are other wheels inside other cages, and attached to each wheel is a pulley system which connects to a hook, dangling a bucket of food. You run forward and the pulley moves and the bucket drops, and you reach inside and grab some food and eat it. But now the bucket is lighter, and so it swings back up on the arm it's attached to, and it's a bit higher than it was before.

    You just ate, but since you're running so much in this wheel, you're hungry too, so you run a bit faster and sure enough the pulley turns and eventually the bucket comes back down and you eat some food. You feel a bit stronger now.

    Hey, that guy in the wheel next to you has already eaten three times. You'd better run faster to keep up. There... now you're not hungry any more. But again, all that running to get the food has made you hungry again. And that bucket is higher now, almost out of reach. You'd better run faster to get it down here so you can eat again.

    Maybe some day you can pay for a new wheel that faces a different direction. That would be AWESOME.

    P.S. Also there's some pictures of elves or something on the wall in front of you. Maybe space.

    • by sakdoctor (1087155) on Monday December 15, 2008 @03:12AM (#26117463) Homepage

      That's also a description of some people's real lives you insensitive clod.

    • Re: (Score:1, Redundant)

      by nacturation (646836) *

      You shouldn't have posted as AC because that's a great description. I'm sure the WOW-playing mods will likely choose their own punishment because there's no -1 Disagree moderation.

      • by elrous0 (869638) *
        Sadly, many of those who play WoW would be the first to AGREE with his metaphor.
        • by fractoid (1076465)
          All D&D-based RPGs are treadmills. You kill a little dragon, and get a sword, which you use to kill a bigger dragon, and get a bigger sword, which you use to kill a bigger dragon, and get a bigger sword, which you use to kill a BIGGER dragon, and get an even BIGGER sword.

          Sometimes you only have a small chance of getting a sword for killing a dragon. And always, there is no biggest dragon or biggest sword.
    • by Thanshin (1188877) on Monday December 15, 2008 @03:33AM (#26117559)

      Ungrateful youngsters.

      In my times, the cage was free, but:
      - The wheel wasn't round.
      - The bucket was empty nine times out of ten.
      - The pictures on the walls were so pixelated we didn't know they were elves unless we read the description.
      - The other cages were somewhere else, so we didn't even know how often others ate.

      • We had to imagine the wheel, the bucket, the pictures and the cage cause it was all text.
        And we could only play on weekends cause there was no staying up late or sleepovers on a school night.
        And our parents drove us to the place where we would imagine all that.
        And it was raining. And we were cold. And hungry. All of the time.
        And we LIKED it!

      • The pictures on the walls were so pixelated we didn't know they were elves unless we read the description.

        What, you had _pictures_ on the walls? You young 'uns don't know how good you had it. Back in my day we just had the description. And were grateful even for that.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ILuvRamen (1026668)
      that's why I runescape I just dressed as NPCs and jumped out and people and freaked them the hell out. Now THAT is fun lol. Seriously, I think every MMORPG I've ever played, I've just messed with people. I dressed in all blue one time in SRO, rode my horse next to someone else, and said "Sir I'm going to have to ask you to pull over." He actually did too. They should make an entire game out of just running around and messing with people cuz I do that anyway.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        That proves how successful you are at normal social activities.

    • by eieken (635333)
      But you forgot, there's lots of other people running on different wheels in different cages, all placed next to me. Sometimes when I go really fast on my wheel it bumps the wall, sometimes even causing the other wheels to bump into their walls too. It's multiplayer!
    • by Exitar (809068) on Monday December 15, 2008 @07:00AM (#26118623)

      How does this compare to the real life in which you work for:
      - pay the rent of your house
      - buy a new car cause your neighbour has a car better than the one you have now
      - work more to get a pay rise
      - hope for a better work someday

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        The difference is, in MMO you pay money to grind and work, in RL you get paid for grind and work.

        • by Exitar (809068)

          If one assumes that playing is funny (probably not true anymore for severely addicted people), which is better, grinding for happiness or grinding for money? The answer "money can buy happiness" is not valid... :)

        • by l3prador (700532) <wkankla@gmaTOKYOil.com minus city> on Monday December 15, 2008 @12:26PM (#26121399) Homepage
          You get "paid" in an MMO as well, just in Gold or Gil or some other virtual currency? What makes getting paid in dollars more legitimate than getting paid in video game currency? Beyond paying for basic needs, all it can cover is shiny accessories also. The only real currency is time, and you have to pay that to both systems.
          • by LilGuy (150110)

            Time AND labor. Money means nothing if there's no labor to back it.

            • Time AND labor. Money means nothing if there's no labor to back it.

              Heirs to large fortunes notwithstanding...

              • by LilGuy (150110)

                Labor creates wealth. Can't be wealthy if you're not leeching from others' labor, no?

        • by jbezorg (1263978)

          The difference is, in MMO you pay money to grind and work, in RL you get paid for grind and work.

          What about the gold farmers? Where do they fall in this?

          • by Lokitoth (1069508)
            They are the beginning of ForEx to those other worlds. Though with a much worse reputation than the average Money Changer...
            • by jbezorg (1263978)
              I was driving towards paying for a MMO to grind and work to get paid in RL and my post get sideswiped by FedEx on the internet... Sounds like a commuting accident.
        • by AgentSmith (69695)

          The difference is, in MMO you pay money to grind and work, in RL you get paid for grind and work.

          So, it's a loop.

          10 I work grind so
          20 I get paid so
          30 I can play grind so
          10 I can work grind . . .[repeat until dead]

      • by Endo13 (1000782)

        You can always swap the MMO wheel for something completely different at the drop of a hat if you choose, with no adverse effects. Trading your life for a different one is a bit more difficult.

    • by tibman (623933)

      In the MMO i play you get to destroy other people's wheels, i love my EVE :)

      • by GundamFan (848341)

        I want very much to like EVE, but I never seem to be able to find the right crowd.

        I'd be willing to start a whole new character if I ever re-uped again; any tips?

        • by tibman (623933)

          Eve is all about having friends you get along with, in my opinion.

          For pvp i'd suggest joining a good empire based Merc corporation/alliance. Just alternate between learning and core pvp skills so you don't get bored with training. Fly a frigate with rat loot fitted in as many battles as you can. You'll quickly figure out what type of ship fits your game play style. A good corp will also practice with you and help you fit your ship.

          For starting out as a carebear, i'd suggest joining a smallish 15-40 man

    • I have played almost all the MMO's that have existed up to Burning Crusade. I cannot honestly fathom what posessed me to play those games. I took up guitar (not guitar hero, the real thing with strings) and spend more time playing with my kids. I tried to play WoW again a month or two ago and before that temporarily reactivated my LOTRO account, and I honestly do not see what is supposed to be fun about those games. WHen I get the bug to do some gaming I fire up the Xbox 360. No need to wait for a group to
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by oneils (934770)
        Well, shit. If you have kids, then playing an MMO is pretty ridiculous. But, if you are a single, pathetic loser like myself, then MMO's make a lot of sense.
      • by Reapy (688651)

        Why not just admit that you got sick of the same old bs? By nature people tend to get bored of the same thing day in and day out. Eventually we "wake up" and realize something was pointless. We do this with MMO's, we do this in relationships (cmon how many ex's did you walk away from and say to yourself, wtf was i thinking?), we do this with hobbies.. I'm sure some guy has gotten bored of the same old thing with his guitar and took up mmos.

        Variety is what we crave...just, why look back on something that mad

    • by everphilski (877346) on Monday December 15, 2008 @10:58AM (#26120457) Journal
      You're in a giant wheel inside a cage. You paid $50 for the wheel, and it costs you $15 a month to rent the cage it's in.

      Yes, but it is a cheaper wheel than going to the bar every Friday night, or going out to a movie twice a month, or even going out to lunch with coworkers once a week ... if you enjoy it and do it in lieu of other social activities it is a great money saver. Especially once you have kids. Kiddies go to bed around 7 or 8, you have a few hours alone with your wife ... once you've "ground out" a few levels in the bedroom together it's fun to play a MMO together and grind out a few levels together in game. Also a good way to keep in touch with friends who live far away... when I moved from WI to AL, we all played Everquest, and it was probably the cheapest way to keep in touch besides IM...

      In short it's something to do. I bounce between WoW and EQ (I love original EQ, but my wife loves WoW, heart gets split in two) and play probably 3-4 months out of the year in between dissertation research and other extra-work work.
      • by garylian (870843)

        This comment goes to 11.

        Seriously, I remember my old man giving me crap about playing computer games all the time, but then he sat down and looked at things. I was playing EQ at the time, and back then it was something like 12.99 a month if memory serves me right. Sure, I paid for 2 expansions a year (you hear that, Blizzard???) but the monthly fee was nothing compared to going out all the time.

        I figure that playing MMOs actually saved me a couple hundred dollars every month, easy. I stopped seeing movie

    • you win a giant wheel facing in a different direction! awesome post!
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Lord_Dweomer (648696)
      Awesome description...reminds me of the essay on how Everquest (and really all MMOs) are nothing but giant virtual Skinner Boxes [nickyee.com]. A great read--enjoy.
    • With the proper amount of cynicism any activity can be reduced to trivialities.
    • by m6ack (922653)

      You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded front door.
      There is a small mailbox here.

      >

    • by Hellpop (451893)

      That's if you care about what anyone else on any other wheels is doing. I get on when I feel like running, if I get some food from a bucket that's fine...
      When I get tired, I drop off the wheel into something called RL, where I have various other pursuits that bring me no end of pleasure. I will practice those pursuits when I wish as well and then stop whenever I wish. Some are free and some I have to pay for. I get to choose which pursuits and how often I pursue them. I even get to choose if I want to pay f

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Reapy (688651)

      What's wrong with running a wheel all the time if you are happy to do so?

      I play volleyball at the Y. This is a "safe" activity. You can say this to people and there is nothing wrong with me, and i'm not wasting my life. It's good for me!

      I play with the same ~50 people every year in the league. It is rec level. I play 4 games a week. At the end we do a tournament style play off, winning team gets a sweatshirt. I enjoy playing, but my skill level has plateaued, I would need to train or play more then once a w

  • eve online (Score:5, Funny)

    by Digitus1337 (671442) <lk_digitus AT hotmail DOT com> on Monday December 15, 2008 @03:48AM (#26117621) Homepage
    Disclaimer: I am a former WoW player and a current EVE player. I am not employed, nor am I (beyond the extent of being a player) affiliated with the makers of any game.

    It's interesting to see how EVE is distinct and separate as compared to the other games. This is for a number of reasons, the first of which is the learning curve [eve-files.com], but there are other factors. The learning curve tends to weed out teenage WoW players; being accused of engaging in anything but PvP leads to the derogatory label of "carebear". The focus on PvP coupled with the harsh punishment of failure (ships do not respawn, they are lost when they are destroyed, and all ships are player-manufactured) is enough to scare away some players that are able to overcome the learning curve. The game is not for casual players, but it -is- fun. If you haven't played, please give it a shot, there are trial periods available.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by TOGSolid (1412915)
      As a fellow Eve player, I do have to admit that on the surface the game seems to be grinding to an extreme. Mission grinding, Mining grinding, Pirate hunting grinding, etc. etc. If you never get out of the basic levels of gameplay in Eve, it will be an incredibly dull game and that is something I freely admit to anyone who is interested in getting into the game. However, I also make a point of stressing that Eve is also a game that you get out of it what you put into it. If you do choose to step out of
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by TheLink (130905)
        • by TOGSolid (1412915)
          It makes me laugh actually.
          Just petty people in 0.0 who take the game way too seriously. I have fought with both BoB and Goonswarm and found that 0.0 alliances are staffed with nothing more than very small people who's lives practically revolve around the game, but that's pretty much the norm for any 'high level' large game organization. The big guilds in WoW are equally moronic and pathetic.
          Do what I want cause a pirate is free, I aaaam a pirate!
          • How do you reconcile the following two statements?

            However, I also make a point of stressing that Eve is also a game that you get out of it what you put into it.

            ...very small people who's lives practically revolve around the game...

            In the first statement you imply that there is a direct connection between reward and effort in EVE. In the second statement you deride those who appear to be taking advantage of the implication in the first statement.

            • by TOGSolid (1412915)
              There's enjoying a game and the rewards you get out of your efforts, and then there's flying off the handle in e-rage, as if someone just pooped on your puppy, actually verbally screaming at people (and I mean scream in the literal sense) over vent/TS. My time with the top tier 0.0 crowd was sadly limited because of the terrible attitude problems that the big players have. While Goons weren't as bad, BoB is notorious for this. If you fly on BoB's side, verbal abuse from the leadership is the norm. They
      • by LilGuy (150110)

        Of the two mmo's i've played, eve and wow, I'd have to say eve is ten times more interesting. I played wow for a 15 day trial period and got bored by the end of it. I played EvE for it's 10 or 15 day trial period and was only becoming more intrigued. The difference between the two is incredible. Though I was starting to see where you could just mine for days on end and accomplish nothing of value, but once you level up enough the whole game is open to do whatever you want.

        WoW just got boring as hell re

    • Re:eve online (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheLink (130905) on Monday December 15, 2008 @05:20AM (#26118063) Journal
      What discourages me from playing Eve Online are the keywords: "corruption", "rigging", "cover up".

      That's like voluntarily choosing (and paying!) to live in a universe where you know the Gods (or demigods at least) are evil and corrupt.

      Why bother when you are already forced to "enjoy such realism" in real life?
      • Why bother when you are already forced to "enjoy such realism" in real life?

        Because, like real life, it's fun anyway.

        I tend to be worried more about what's waiting behind the next gate than what CCP may or may not be doing to help an alliance I have never personally encountered in-game.

      • Re:eve online (Score:4, Insightful)

        by nschubach (922175) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:25AM (#26119073) Journal

        I never got into Eve... not for the "scandal" that happened, but because it always felt like what real life would be like in Space. Corporations running your life, pirates killing you for no other reason than, "You were there" and long waits.

        This article cemented another reason why I don't like Eve as well.

        Again, EVE players are precise and in agreement. They are playing against players.

        I don't play games to compete. Call me weird, but I love gaming because you can gang up on some fictional enemy or artificial being, not some real person.

      • by Alsee (515537)

        That's like voluntarily choosing (and paying!) to live in a universe where you know the Gods (or demigods at least) are evil and corrupt.

        I never understood why anyone would ever buy into that.

        Gotta run... time for Bible Study.

        -

    • by Narpak (961733) on Monday December 15, 2008 @05:20AM (#26118071)

      Disclaimer: I am a former WoW player and a current EVE player. I am not employed, nor am I (beyond the extent of being a player) affiliated with the makers of any game.

      The game is not for casual players, but it -is- fun. If you haven't played, please give it a shot, there are trial periods available.

      I am sorry, I would if I could; but unfortunately I AM Employed.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mrvan (973822)

        I am sorry, I would if I could; but unfortunately I AM Employed.

        That was my problem too. I loved elite and UIM back in the days, and it sounds like a great setting for a MMO. However, I would likely play onely a couple evenings per month, and it seems that light play is incompatible with both the game mechanics and the subscription scheme (ie you pay per time period, not per hour or something of use)

        • I'd still be playing WoW if I could forego the monthly payment and just pay for the times I actually login. But if I have a busy month it feels dumb to shell out 15 bucks for logging in twice to check auctions.

        • That is what is great about EVE, I'm an ADD gamer (not hyperactive, just easily distracted), switching between games as the mood strikes me, but my EVE character continues to develop because skill training continues while you are offline. When I am not in the mood for playing EVE, I just keep track of my skills and change them out as needed. Admittedly, this does not help my personal playing skills, but my character is on a much better footing for developing those skills when my desire turns back to busti
          • by TOGSolid (1412915)
            The offline skill training is one of my favorite features of Eve. Since I spend up to, if not more than half the year at sea, any attempt to play a traditional MMO is usually disastrous. I get outleveled in a hurry by everyone I know while I'm away and am constantly playing catchup. With Eve, I can easily just set a month long skill to train, or if I'm going to be out longer, just let someone I know and trust trip skills for me (a girlfriend is fantastic for this job). I stay in pace with everyone else
      • I am sorry, I would if I could; but unfortunately I AM Employed.

        I'm sure there are lots of people who are willing to trade!

    • by biocute (936687)

      Disclaimer: I am a former WoW player and a current EVE player. I am not employed

      How can you afford to keep playing then without income?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Taevin (850923) *
        How can someone not afford to pay for one, with or without current employment/income? I don't exactly make a lot of money and still a one-month subscription at $15 is less than a fraction of a percent of my monthly income.

        MMOs are one of the most cost effective forms of entertainment available, so playing one without current employment might actually be a better choice than other, more expensive pastimes. There are plenty of valid reasons not to play MMOs (ranging from concerns about time commitment to
        • You know, some people are actually poor, and have to make decisions like 'should I eat lunch or pay rent?'

          • by Taevin (850923) *
            In which case they are not (or should not) be spending money on entertainment and thus, are not relevant to the discussion, or at least my point. To reiterate, my point is that with respect to forms of entertainment that require monetary payment, MMOGs are highly efficient. That is, the cost per available hour of entertainment is extremely low.
        • by pnuema (523776)
          And yet you can pay $50 for Fallout 3, play for hundreds of hours, and spend far less than on an MMO.
          • by Taevin (850923) *
            I'm not sure what I'm not explaining correctly, because my point seems to be continually missed. A $15/mo subscription to an MMO comes out to just over $0.02 per available hour of entertainment per month, making it a highly cost efficient pastime. No where did I state that it was the most cost effective form of entertainment, simply that it was one of them.

            So while your statement is really not a rebuttal to my point, I'll argue against it anyway. Your statement ignores the fact that most current MMOs c
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Culture20 (968837)

      The learning curve tends to weed out teenage WoW players; being accused of engaging in anything but PvP leads to the derogatory label of "carebear".

      Wait, what? Aren't derogatory labels the height of juvenile ridicule? If the Eve gamers were really mature, wouldn't PvP be rare, and cooperation be the norm?

      • Cooperation is the norm... in your own corp/alliance/guild. The games is basically divided into three large power-blocks with different ideals whose members work together for greater profit, defense, and stability. It's a minority who isn't involved in this in some way.
    • by Endo13 (1000782)

      I gave the trial a shot. It lasted about 15 minutes. That's about how long it took for me to realize that my "character" was an entity I would never actually see, and I would be using a "pod" that was always stuck in some kind of ship. Space games have never had a big appeal for me anyway, and to spend all that time as a "pod" I cared nothing about just wasn't going to happen. And then a long time later I found out that the game is strictly about PvP that is heavily influenced by politics and corruption at

    • This may be obvious, but probably needs to be said. When everyone starts out playing a game, they hope it will be good and they want to like it. If you hated a game before you tried it, you'd never bother playing it in the first place.

      I tried to play EVE Online shortly after it came out. God was it boring. You'd do something for 2 minutes then spend 10 or 15 minutes getting to the next place where you'd do something else for 2 minutes. I used to watch tv during travel and canceled the game when I realized I

    • by brkello (642429)
      I've gone back and tried Eve a few times and always come away feeling like it was a waste. The core mechanics of the game is not fun. It is basically excel in space. I find the people to be jerks...they think because their game has a crappy UI that makes the game more difficult to play that they are somehow superior. Just a little note for you, the people who call each other carebears are probably teenage morons...so I don't know how that improves anything. Eve has the most boring PvE. PvP is basicall
  • Obviously, EVE is going to be a bit unusual here, given its non-fantasy setting. But the thing I find interesting about the EVE numbers is that EVEâ(TM)s players did not get creative with the traits. 91% said the setting was âoespace.â Everyone else said âoesci-fi fantasy.â The end. No long tail of craziness, no outliers, no one guy putting down âoegay.â

    I think this reflects on the player base. I've never played Eve, but I have a feeling there's no equivalent of "Naked dancing mailbox elves" or general immature mischief.

    • by epr (826666)
      There are, we generally call them Goons.
    • No, instead you have cheating players, cheting developpers, and griefers galore that spend 99% of their waking moment swarming over your hard-earned battlecruisers with hundreds of the tiniest, cheapest ship possible. Much more mature you see.
  • A tiny handful of WAR players chose âoemassively multiplater,â but when I say tiny, I mean less than 1%. WAR players went overwhelmingly with RVR, with 45% of players choosing that trait.

    Yes I think I would agree with them that I would prefer RvR over any type of Massive MultiPlater.

  • GamerDNA (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Narpak (961733) on Monday December 15, 2008 @05:59AM (#26118283)
    I haven't read GamerDNA before this and I probably won't start now. Risking a negative rating as some undoubtedly disagree with what I am going to write here I'll present my views regardless.

    MMO Focus: Traits of Popular Subscription Games
    The BlogPost is first of all presented with colours that make it hard for some of us to read. White on Black text causes me, and others like me, physical discomfort and can lead to migraines. Something several websites have yet to acknowledge. But be that as it may.

    For something called MMO Focus it seems very unfocused at times, riddled with generalization, non-objective and unsubstantiated statements.

    Simply put, there are a crazy number of people who boot up a game in order to play as a soldier. Sure, that's a reflection of how many games there are where the main character is a soldier of some kind, but the games wouldn't be produced if there weren't a tremendous hunger to portray that archetype. Interesting, given that our culture does not encourage people to become actual soldiers.

    Okay. What culture are you speaking of here? MMO players hail from many different nations, and cultures, across the world and as such their views upon different "archetypes" could vary.

    One thing MMO people do that isn't done by players of other genres is to identify very closely with their particular classes. This habit tends to fragment their "playing as" trait participation, since each game has multiple classes, and often unique names for the classes.

    Really? Some do, some don't. Unless you provide some actual data substantiating this; it's just perception and generalization.

    "Massively multiplayer" didn't even make the How It's Played list for EVE. The top How It's Played trait for EVE was "complexity" with 24%. A tiny handful of WAR players chose "massively multiplater," but when I say tiny, I mean less than 1%. WAR players went overwhelmingly with RVR, with 45% of players choosing that trait. 32% of LOTRO players selected "massively multiplayer," but almost as many (31%) chose "story." 29% of WOW players chose "raids" for How It's Played, a trait that doesn't appear in the lists of the other three games in our sample at all.

    Okay... could the information here perhaps be presented in a way that is understandable?

    WOW players are completely bonkers. They have given forty one possible options, at first glance. On second glance, the problem is getting them to agree on terms. LOTRO players, for example, all tend to simply say "NPC" when they mean any kind of non-player character, from monster to humanoid to instance boss. WOW players are moreâ¦creative. Terms include undead, demons, monsters, mobs, NPCs, elementals, murlocs, goblins, aliens, epic bosses, dragons, and more are all on the list, and all in statistically significant numbers, too. Once you lump them all into a single NPC category (and consolidate "alliance" with "alliance scum" and so on), you get a slightly more rational twelve traits.

    I guess the amount of people playing WoW over the others dosn't affect the variation in their answers? And calling WoW players Bonkers is distracting and not helping presenting the "data" at all.

    This time, LOTRO and EVE players are both tightly focused, and both WOW and WAR players canâ(TM)t seem to agree. Again, that's not a disadvantage in an MMO â" you want to appeal to as many people as possible!

    Again, size of player base perhaps affecting some of these findings? The larger the base the more diversity.

    Good luck with the project as a whole, though I feel you might want to reconsider your approach to how you interpret the data before you make it a fundament for any type of larger project.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by jefu (53450)

      colours that make it hard for some of us to read.

      A while back someone put online the following which helps in firefox. Make this a bookmark and when you click it the page goes to black on white (losing background and text color, or background images) and resets link colors. Take out all the newlines and spaces and such.

      Now to see if it survives being posted here.

      javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20newSS,%20styles%3D%27*%20%7B%20background%3A%20white%20!%20important;%20color%3A%20black%20!important%20%7D%20%3Alink,%20%3Alink%20*%20%7B%20color%3A%20#000

    • The BlogPost is first of all presented with colours that make it hard for some of us to read. White on Black text causes me, and others like me, physical discomfort and can lead to migraines. Something several websites have yet to acknowledge. But be that as it may.

      I'm in the reverse camp - black-on-white text leads to eyestrain and headaches. To deal with the dark-on-light design of most websites, I need to keep the brightness/contrast of a moniter very low, which makes it hard to see any finer detail tha

  • by MSojka (83577) on Monday December 15, 2008 @06:22AM (#26118401)

    Funny how the site chose four western MMOs (three of which are 90% the same old mainstream fantasy cliche stuff) and are basing their conclusions on that.

    No big Korean, Chinese, or Japanese MMOs on their list. No free-to-play ones either. No browser-based, 2D or text-only MMOs.

    Great way to show the whole internet you fail at statistics, guys. Here's a bit of help for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biased_sample [wikipedia.org]

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by Zironic (1112127)

      How silly of them to use the most popular MMO's played by their readers.

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by BlackCobra43 (596714)
        Yeah evidently not displaying the fringe 0,0001% of the world's MMO population is a grievuous crime of bias.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by MSojka (83577)

          > Yeah evidently not displaying the fringe 0,0001% of the world's MMO population is a grievuous crime of bias.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuneScape [wikipedia.org]
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapleStory [wikipedia.org]

          Both bigger than WoW.

          Who's in the 0.0001% now? :)

          • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Not to mention I have never seen Final Fantasy 11 brought up in studies on MMOs. Considering it has almost 80% of the pay-to-play MMO market in Japan and over 1.5 Million subscribers that puts it in the top 5 for pay-to-play.

          • by Zironic (1112127)

            They might have more accounts but I haven't seen any proof they have more active players.

            Runescape can apparently handle a total of 320,000 players online at once. (160 servers, 2000 players per server)

            Comparatively WoW has 236 servers in the US and 254 in the EU.

            With an average of 1000 players per faction online at any one time:
            http://www.warcraftrealms.com/activity.php?serverid=-1 [warcraftrealms.com]

            That means WoW has on average 490,000 players online in the western world at any one time, that's way more then runescapes max

            • by Zironic (1112127)

              *Forgot to apply that there are two factions per server so the total is 980,000 players on average.

            • by Phrogman (80473)

              Ah, if Runescape ever manages to have up to 320,000 players online at once, then that would most likely make it at least the 2nd largest MMO in the world, far exceeding the other games that were listed in the article.

              This article had a massive NA-centric bias and excluded games which have massive populations far in excess of the majority of MMOs, presumably because they get played by players primarily located outside of North America.

              I seriously can't wait until WOW dies off, not because I don't like it (I

              • by Zironic (1112127)

                That was my entire original point. It's an article written for an NA audience, of course it'll focus on the games most popular amongst that audience.

                The entire point of their website is finding patterns among the games that their visitors enjoy. Accusing them of NA bias is like accusing the new york times of NY bias.

                Yes Lineage, runescape and FFX may all have bigger market shares then LotR online but the readers of gamerdna are probably more interested in LotR anyhow.

                "I seriously can't wait until WOW dies o

                • by MSojka (83577)

                  > Accusing them of NA bias is like accusing the new york times of NY bias.

                  Not quite. Having a bias is ok. Having a bias while talking statistics and NOT making it explicitly clear which kind of bias one has and how it affects said statistics (like, say, this site does by trying to make it like they are talking about MMOs in general instead of only a small non-randomly selected portion of them) is at best simply inapt and useless, at worst disingenuous.

                  • by Zironic (1112127)

                    Did you even read the article?

                    You're trying to warp that poor column into something it just never was meant to be.

                    All they did was compare what kinds of tags 4 different MMO's got and noticed they were fairly different. They never tried to analyze the genre.

                    You trying to critize the column for not being a proper statistical evaluation of the MMO genre is like me criticizing your post for not being a proper essay on the correct way to use statistics, obviously you're falling short on so many points it's a wa

                    • by MSojka (83577)

                      > Did you even read the article?

                      Yes. Did you?

                      Specifically this self-set goal of them:

                      > Let's revisit the MMO world and see what trends pop out at us. ... which then they utterly fail to do by choosing an extremely biased sample.

                      "World". As in, the whole of it, at least that's the meaning of this word in every language I know of. Free, pay-to-play; 3D, 2D and text; stand-alone clients and browser-based; eastern and western and other MMOs.

                    • by Zironic (1112127)

                      Visiting a world doesn't mean vising all of it in any language I know of.

                    • by Zironic (1112127)

                      You're just being silly.

                      If I've been to paris, then I've by extension also visited france and europe. If I've visited berlin I've also visited germany.

                      According to your logic I havn't visited france, I havn't visited england, I havn't visited belgium, I havn't visited denmark, france, finland or germany.

                      Why? because apparently I didn't spend as much time as humanly possible exploring these places. Geez.

                      Apparently I havn't even visited my own country because I havn't been in half of it.

      • by denzacar (181829)

        If there are no Koreans on your MMO server - you are not playing it right.
        Might as well sit at your starting point and chat.

    • by Phydaux (1135819)

      I don't think it is strange (or a fail) at all.

      A western, and English, site chose 4 games that would appeal to the readers of the blog, and have a decent enough sample size to be able to draw any sort of conclusion.

      How would it serve the article to talk about how, say Dragon Swords MUD, 100% of the players felt the setting was *teh gay!* because they only got one response?

      I can't imagine that there are going to be enough English speaking people playing the popular MMOs of the eastern world, and who know of

  • Runescape? (Score:3, Informative)

    by netsavior (627338) on Monday December 15, 2008 @08:55AM (#26119303)
    I love how everything like this ignores the #2 (sometimes #3) MMO, Runescape, because it isn't as easily classified.
    No character classes, skill based leveling, etc. Of course there is a giant base of 12-16 year olds that play it, but there are some "real people" too... not to mention it is one of the oldest surviving MMOs.
  • by TyroneShoe (912878) on Monday December 15, 2008 @09:15AM (#26119451)
    They put up some pretty useless graphs with very little information about how they arrived at those numbers and how they interpret them. It's worthless to make any inferences about all gamers without explaining their data.

    First of all, they provide no checks for problems such as autocorrelation or multicollinearity between their various survey categories. That aside, it doesn't look like they even did any regression analysis at all. They, in effect, said "duhh, this is 10% of all the answers so it must mean something!". Bull. Just because the response rate for a particular category is 10% doesn't mean it is statistically significant in the academic sense.

    Sorry, but as a professional data analyst, I get really pissed when people collect some (possibly non-random) data, do some half-assed analysis, post some pretty colors on a graph and say "Eureka! I haz solved wurld peez!"

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