Increase In Xbox 360 E74 Problems 346
Xbm360 writes "According to data collected by Joystiq as well as Google Trends, there's been a steady rise in reports and discussion of the so-called E74 error on Xbox 360 consoles since August of last year. The E74 error is related to video problems caused by either a faulty AV connector or, more often, a loosened ANA/HANA scaling chip. This is not the first time the Xbox 360 has experienced technical issues; in recent years many people have complained about scratched discs and over-heating consoles — the 'red ring of death.'"
Heh, figures. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not disappointed by the PS3, I actually have quite a lot of fun with it, but I'd have bought a 360 Elite instead a long time ago if it weren't for the litany of failures reported everyfuckinwhere.
The games are cool, but they managed to ruin this making the hardware a piece of crap. Mod me troll if you like, that's just how it is.
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:3, Interesting)
The issue is that an Xbox360 is less sturdy than anything else on the market right now. Compared to Wii and PS3 its a pile of manure disguised as a gaming console.
Its just shitty hardware Q&A from the same company that excels in bad quality software.
After this long... (Score:3, Interesting)
Call me a troll, but I feel ripped off: Fucking FAIL
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:1, Interesting)
The original XBox is nearly indestructable and I say this as an XBox owner. Shame it lacked good games (JRPGs), though.
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:5, Interesting)
Demonstrably false. Microsoft have a quality console under their belts. Despite it's ponderous bulk, the original Xbox was a reliable console. I've rarely heard of system failures or disc scratches, and the device stands up well to custom modding. In addition to this, it was the first mainstream console to have hard drive and an ethernet link. And that was all from a company which, to my knowledge, had never produced a single hardware product.
Now that same company comes out and produces the 360 with its notoriously high failure rate. And it's wasn't down to the complexity of the design. The red ring of death was due to parts and material failures. Scratched discs were again down to a substandard component. Now we have a loose video chip problem.
This is NOT down to design. These issues are trivial to fix if only Microsoft was willing to pay the money. The fact is, they're not. These errors all exist because Microsoft is cutting costs across the board on 360 manufacturing. For every error that is found, you can be sure that three more lurk beneath the surface as a result of substandard parts, components and assembly line procedures.
The reason is clear. Despite their deep pockets, Microsoft are not willing to make the kind of losses everyone assumes they can make with the 360. But they still want a lower price point. It's not just manufacturing. Look at Live. Microsoft are the only game service provider in the world who are charging people to play titles online. When everyone else; Nintendo, Sony and Valve, make playing online completely free, the Live gold membership fee required to play every single Xbox 360 title online stands out like a sore thumb. It's particularly egregious standing next to Microsoft's own Games for Windows: Live, which is also free.
Bad hardware and unnecessary online fees. Why would a company in Microsoft's position continue to hinder itself in these ways? The answer is that they want the 360 to succeed, but are not willing to shell out funds indefinitely to achieve this. The console needs to sell massively, but they are not willing to charge people for this, so production costs are cut instead. The console needs to make money off people during its lifetime, but they are not willing to do this through selling games, so they charge for services that should be free.
Everyone has assumed that Microsoft's funds are essentially unlimited when it comes to their goal of getting a Microsoft console into the living room. I don't think this is true anymore. Over time, it has become clear that a console in the living room is not going to serve as the hub of a digital household. I think Microsoft has realized this and is now simply treating the Xbox as another part of its home computer strategy, but not as an essentially one that must be maintained at any cost.
Re:Heh, figures. (Score:5, Interesting)
I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but I am on my third Xbox (I've only purchased one). The first one would sometimes freeze up on powerup, sometimes give an E74, and they wouldn't replace it till it RROD'd, it lasted two months. The second one lasted just over a year (long enough for the standard warranty to run out) it started randomly freezing up in the midst of games, the menus, etc and at completely random intervals. They refused to replace it. Flatly refused, the only thing the 3 year warranty is for is RROD's. Eventually (a few weeks later) it did RROD:
Advice for the unfortunate out there, don't pay $100 or so to ship your console to Microsoft if its freezing up, wait a bit and actually use it and put up with the freezing for a few weeks, it seems likely to result in a RROD.
Xbox Is Being Slowly Let To Die Off (Score:0, Interesting)
"I think Microsoft has realized this and is now simply treating the Xbox as another part of its home computer strategy,"
The Xbox hardware has as much of a future at Microsoft as the Zune hardware does.
Zero.
Microsoft has been consistently shutting down the lifeblood of a viable console, first party development studios over the past two years. They are down to only three now. And it sounds like Rare is up next.
The absolutely barren 2009 and 2010 360 exclusive game releases makes it clear that the days of wasting money on the Xbox fiasco are over at Microsoft and they are milking the current installed base for as much money from the 50 dollar a year online charges as they can before killing the 8 year long disaster once and for all.
Re:And who said (Score:3, Interesting)
For those who don't know what chip creep is, it's the term used to describe the movement of chips that occurs when they're not soldered/improperly soldered, and is caused by repetitive heating/cooling over a span of time. The metal expands and contracts, which eventually causes it to work itself loose. It's an issue as old as the hills, and its really pretty shameful for it to be occurring in the 360.
Re:Heh, figures. (Score:3, Interesting)
They are stationary, in a well ventilated space. No extreme temperatures or humidity. No pets, no kids. There are no known issues with the power company (no brown-/blackouts in over a decade).
So please tell me how I kill them. It would save me a trip to the post office every now and then.
It seems I'm not alone [avsforum.com] in this. Google is filled to the brim with people that are on their n'th replacement.
So maybe it isn't me. Maybe it isn't all the others that suffer high failure rates. Maybe, just maybe, it's that the design or build quality is poor. I think so, at least.
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:1, Interesting)
Maybe they are just taking a cue from Apple. Here's a blog writeup about an article on the guardian, saying that Apple expects the iPod to last a year [longrider.co.uk], while there are other reports of the battery ranging from 2 to 4 years (likely shorter).
I'd argue it is about profit and manufacturing. If you're expecting to have a new console out every 3 to 5 years, why would you bother making consoles that last 20? The market is evolving, system reliability comes second to game availability. If Xbox3 comes out 2 years from now and my 360 happens do kick the bucket around that time, I'd likely jump to the Xbox3 and keep my games.
I certainly did that with the PS1 to PS2 transition. Sony did a crap job with the CD-ROM and the wear on the laser's sled. It gave me a few months headache, but I kept it because of the games. When my PS1 finally became unplayable, I just went out and picked up a PS2.
Could MS have spent a bit more money on design and parts for 360's across the board? Sure.
Would it have put them at a price significantly less than Sony's PS3? Maybe, maybe not (Don't feel like looking up figures).
Would it have been wise for them to actually spent the money producing a more reliable product? Depends on who you ask. It seems the RROD problem got them some flak, though the warranty treatment got a fair amount of that under control.
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:4, Interesting)
It is well known that writeable CD's and DVD's have a limited shelf life. They're not intended for archival purposes.
The point is that every X years, where X is sufficiently short to prevent data loss, you can make an EXACT COPY of the higher-quality video, with extremely little or no loss in quality.
Try that with a VHS tape.
Re:Heh, figures. (Score:1, Interesting)
There needs to be a (-1, False Matyr) rating for people who claim to expect to be modded troll.
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:2, Interesting)
There are three xBox 360s in my house (college house, rented out by room).
One of them has red ringed FOUR TIMES over the past three years.
One has red ringed once and E74'd once in the past year.
The third, which was purchased last Christmas, scratched discs out of the box. The replacement for that one wouldn't power up. The replacement for that one works... for the moment.
The real question is not "why is Microsoft's hardware so shitty?" It is "why are we still giving Microsoft so much money for shitty hardware?"
Re:I don't quite see what this is about (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it is definitely bad design.
The 360 GPU heatsink is tiny compared to the CPU heatsink, because they had to squeeze it directly under the DVD drive because of their layout. I have heard that originally that had more room - and a bigger heatsink - but it was shrunk when the case was redesigned to be smaller. The board is also under curve stress because of the case, so when the GPU gets so hot it starts to melt its own solder slightly, you get bad joints, and bing, it dies.
Many people have fixed their own RROD problem, at least temporarily, by disassembling the unit and heating the GPU heatsink with a hairdryer, while using something like the X-clamp replacement clamps to keep the heatsink clamped down tight, and effectively reheat and reflow the solder joints. Some people have used flux to fix more problematic consoles, and some repair specialists have even got their own reflow ovens.
Several of the console revisions have basically been an extra heatsink with a heatpipe to try and stop the GPU literally cooking itself off the board. The newest consoles, with the process shrink, have smaller power supplies and generate less heat in the first place, so should be more reliable.
The biggest problem with the 360 is overheating, even in normal use, and that's down to too small a case with consequential undersized heatsinks.
However, I'll grant you that the DVD scratching problem is simply down to them being cheap - they skipped putting bumpers in to stop it digging into the disc, because it saved them a couple of cents per console. The problem comes about because they're spinning the disc too fast, with insufficient magnetic grip. They could have redesigned the drive, but it would have made it too slow reading, or take longer to spinup/eject discs. Microsoft knew about the design problem, but went ahead anyway, because they were too cheap to fix it.