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Comments: 376 +-   Why Bother With DRM? on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:01PM

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:01PM
from the good-way-to-make-internet-people-hate-you dept.
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Brad Wardell of Stardock and Ron Carmel of 2D Boy recently spoke with Gamasutra about their efforts to move the games industry away from restrictive DRM. Despite the fact that both have had their own troubles with piracy, they contend that overall piracy rates aren't significantly affected by DRM — and that most companies know it. Instead, the two suggest that most DRM solutions are still around to hamper a few more specific situations. Quoting: "'Publishers aren't stupid. They know that DRM doesn't work against piracy,' Carmel explains. 'What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets. If DRM permits only a few installs, that minimizes the number of times a game can be resold.' ... 'I believe their argument is that while DRM doesn't work perfectly,' says Wardell, 'it does make it more difficult for someone to get the game for free in the first five or six days of its release. That's when a lot of the sales take place and that's when the royalties from the retailers are determined. Publishers would be very happy for a first week without "warez" copies circulating on the Web.'"
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  • Brad Wardell of Stardock and Ron Carmel of 2D Boy

    I don't know who that is but a few days ago I submitted a story on an interview with Sony's CEO [slashdot.org]:

    In an interview with Nikkei Electronics Asia this month [nikkeibp.co.jp], Sony CEO and chairman Howard Stringer revealed an interesting point about open technologies: 'Customers will refuse to accept it unless the technology is open. Youth in particular really dislikes closed technologies, closed systems and the like. I think the failure of AOL LLC of the US is good evidence of this. When the Internet was just beginning to spread, AOL boosted its subscriber base by providing special services only to its customers. After a while, though, customers began rebelling, complaining that they weren't children. Because AOL wanted to keep them locked up in a narrow portion of the immense Internet cosmos, open technology was created. Sony hasn't taken open technology very seriously in the past. Its CONNECT music download service was a failure. It was based on OpenMG, a proprietary digital rights management (DRM) technology. At the time, we thought we would make more money that way than with open technology, because we could manage the customers and their downloads. This approach, however, created a problem: customers couldn't download music from any Websites except those that contracted with Sony. If we had gone with open technology from the start, I think we probably would have beaten Apple Inc of the US.' He then mentions that Sony has a chance to provide something that Apple can't. Sounds like somebody should inform him of DRM-free iTunes [slashdot.org]. However when asked about customer confusion over too many open technologies, he claims that the customer will always like choice so the more the better.

    Didn't get published so I thought I'd post it here as evidence that even the music distribution companies are saying, "Why bother with DRM?" Not surprising now that Amazon and iTunes are doing it though. I predict everyone will eventually pull their heads out of their asses, it just will take some longer than others.

    • by maz2331 (1104901) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:20PM (#27940209)

      Really, if we distill the arguments for DRM down far enough, it becomes clear that the idea is to try to work around the First Sale Doctrine and kill the second-hand market.

        • by socrplayr813 (1372733) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @01:08PM (#27940999)

          Really, if we distill the arguments for DRM down far enough, it becomes clear that the idea is to try to work around the First Sale Doctrine and kill the second-hand market.

          Really, if we distill the arguments against DRM down far enough, it becomes clear that the ideas is to try to get shit for free.

          Both of you are right. There's a group of people fighting for each of those extremes. The rest of us are getting drowned out in the chaos of the battle.

        • by SpecBear (769433) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @01:58PM (#27941837)

          My argument against DRM is that I want to use the shit that I fucking paid for.

          If it was just about getting shit for free, I wouldn't be bitching about it on Slashdot. I'd be downloading the pirated version, which doesn't have a limit on the number of installs and doesn't require me to ask permission from some company's server before I can play.

          I can get shit for free now, regardless of DRM.

    • Brad Wardell of Stardock and Ron Carmel of 2D Boy

      I don't know who that is but a few days ago I...

      Stardock develops non-DRM'd games like Sins of a Solar Empire and now Demigod. They always make a big todo about how there's no DRM and then SecuROM (the DRM guys) get upset that they didn't use their DRM and say they'll download their torrents. Stardock has a Steam-like product called Impulse that many have said is akin to a light form of DRM, but still DRM.

      2D-Boy are the developers of World of Goo, a popular indie game that was once reported to have something like a 90% piracy rate, which was argued by many to be unbelievable, etc. World of Goo has no DRM.

    • by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Wednesday May 13 2009, @01:47PM (#27941649) Journal

      It's not even that he's unaware of DRM-free iTunes. If that were the only problem, I'd be quite happy to inform him of an opportunity that I simply don't see being exploited right now:

      Purely web-based purchasing, with an open API.

      Amazon MP3 is pretty cool. Better than iTunes, because I can use any program I want to play the music, and because there's a Linux client, I've now set my mother up to purchase music that way, and have it automatically imported into Amarok.

      But it could be so much better.

      Purely web-based would mean no client I have to download and figure out. An open API, or even a decent enough web interface, would mean I could write an Amarok plugin -- be able to listen to a preview, and buy it right there, just like (I assume) iTunes does. Others could write Songbird plugins. It's possible they could even make a deal to incorporate it into iTunes.

      Protection would be relatively easy: Just a temporary URL, and it'd be about as good as Amazon MP3 is right now.

      The problem is, of course, that he doesn't get it at all.

      A lot of people thought Sony's content download service was doomed, but it's in a pretty good place right now in the form of the PlayStation Network, available to PS3 users for network gaming, video, etc. The DRM is based on Marlin, an open scheme developed by consumer electronics companies and other companies.

      So close, and yet so far...

      So, I'm guessing to this guy, "open" is just a buzzword. He seemed to have a basic grasp of what it means, and then he went and claimed a DRM scheme could be "open".

  • Encourage piracy? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Leviance (1001065) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:12PM (#27940061)
    So, the purpose is not to prevent piracy, but to prevent multiple legal resales of games ... which would only result in further illegal piracy. Sounds like a winning argument to me...
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Sort of, if I download a game via bittorrent, the publisher gets nothing. If I buy a used game via gamestop, the publisher gets the exact same amount, only gamestop gets more money to operate and sell used console games.

      Used console games are where the real heartache is. I'm not aware of a way to play pirated xbox360 games or ps3 games in a way that doesn't void the warranty (very important with the RROD floating around) or online play. That being said, if I have the choice between paying 35 for a new cop
    • Ya well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:43PM (#27940573)

      I think 2D Boy gives publishers more credit then they are due. I think publishers ARE stupid over all. I think they really do think they can win this war. They think "Well if we just keep getting better DRM, we'll find something they can't crack." I think they also believe that DRM does give good ROI, which is to say that the increase in profits is greater than the cost of the DRM. I really believe that most publishers are stupid about this, just like the music publishers.

      The problem is they see these big numbers of copies out there and get dollar signs in their eyes. They think "Man, if we had been paid for each of those copies we'd be RICH!" They are right too. Games are heavily copied. If every person who ever downloaded a copy instead paid for the game, they'd probably make 5-10x the money. What they don't consider, of course, is that not everyone would. There's a lot that people will take for free that they won't take at any price, much less a $50 price. You offer it for free, they say "Yes I'd like that." You want any money for it, they'll pass.

      However, greed is able to short-circuit logic for many people I don't think the people at publishers are any different. They see the money they could be theoretically making and stop thinking logically about it.

      Also the DRM companies push their products heavily, of course. They reassure the publishers "Oh ya, our DRM is really effective it'll get you a bunch more sales but if you DON'T use it, we'll you'll go to the poor house because nobody will buy your game!"

      Personally, I think the numbers on the Bittorrent sites tell the real story. Demigod sure as hell got downloaded a lot, because people were very interested in it. However, Spore got downloaded even more, because even more people were interested in it. The difference DRM had on downloading in that case? Zero. People downloaded if they wanted to.

  • DRM doesn't bother me nearly as much as stuff like Steam and the death of the second hand market. Can you imagine how difficult it will be to bring a game to your friends' house to play?

    "Hey, Ron, it's Steve. Since we're going to hang out tomorrow, I suggest you start downloading Butt Zappers 2 now. It should take up about 20 GB of your hard drive space."

    "OK, what's your Live username and password?"

    "It's XXXXXX and XXXXX. My credit card's on that account, don't use it to download a bunch of games like you did last time, okay bro?"

    "Sure dude, but what if this puts me up over my bandwidth cap, you'll pay me back, right?"

    "I guess."

    "Wait a minute, I don't have any room on my hard drive left."

    "So, just delete some of your old stuff. You can always download it later."

    "Are you gonna pay for me to download all that stuff too?"

    "Dude, I knew we should have gotten Playstation, Sony made a deal with Comcast and PSN downloads don't count against the cap."

    "Yeah, and maybe we'd actually be able to download it. Looks like the Butt Zappers server is slammed right now."

    Honestly, if they try to foist that stuff on us, I'll just stick with the old, disc-based systems.

    • (...I'd like to know more about this Butt Zappers game.)
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      At least with Steam you can download it as much as you want, so there's that.

      I get your point, though, and now that you just about have to have multiple copies of a game to fire it up at a LAN party I imagine we'll just stick with UT2K4 and earlier, plus L4D (a special case, and something that we'd all been dreaming of for years, so of course we all bought it). Certainly, the bar for buying a multiplayer game has risen since it became impossible or complicated to install one copy on several machines for a

      • by Tridus (79566) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:46PM (#27940603) Homepage

        If you're talking about a LAN party, not all games really require you to buy a copy for everybody. Demigod (most recent example I have) lets you use one copy for everybody on the LAN. It even says you're allowed to do that in the game's manual.

        It seems like it's next to impossible to find out what the policy is before actually buying the game, but some games are friendly towards LAN players. :)

    • Your post rubs me as starkly disingenuous.

      The Steam hate might have held some ground in 2002/03 while angry Counter-Strike players still clung to WON.net, but times have changed. Unless you're regularly blowing all of your monthly bandwidth on torrenting "linux isos", you can stomach a Steam game download or two with even the most draconian ISP.

      "It's XXXXXX and XXXXX. My credit card's on that account, don't use it to download a bunch of games like you did last time, okay bro?"

      Steam doesn't persistently store your credit card information. I'd be weary of any digital delivery service that did.

      "Can you imagine how difficult it will be to bring a game to your friends' house to play?"

      Okay, okay, let's just say your pal doesn't

  • Property or not? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by causality (777677) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:18PM (#27940159)

    Publishers aren't stupid. They know that DRM doesn't work against piracy,' Carmel explains. 'What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets. If DRM permits only a few installs, that minimizes the number of times a game can be resold.

    This struck me as a hypocritical position on the part of those game publishers. Either IP is property or it is not. If it is property, then there should be no restrictions allowed on whether or how frequently it can be resold (i.e. no one tries to stop you from reselling your car or your house). If it is not property, then there should be no artificial scarcity surrounding it which would also make this or any other DRM an inappropriate practice.

    It should be obvious that what they seem to want is a level of control that is unavailable to the manufacturers of any other sort of good or service. It's surprising that anyone takes them seriously. Much lively debate occurs on the fine nuances of copyright law while missing the point that what they want is to be singularly special, to wield powers unavailable to other industries. That's known as the inability to see the forest for all the trees. That's why I think it's a phony debate, just like most media discourse surrounding what should be regarded as power grabs. They are aiming at an unreasonable amount of control over the marketplace in the name of copyright.

  • Lost Sale Fallacy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bughunter (10093) <{ten.knilhtrae} {ta} {retnuhgub}> on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:19PM (#27940179) Journal
    These specific situations still suffer from the false assumption that a pirated copy is a lost sale. I would wager that very few pirated copies represent a copy that would have been sold at retail, either:
    • The person has no interest in the game, but will download a "free" copy because it's "free,"
    • The person cannot afford the full retail price of the game, or
    • The person wants to evaluate the full version, not some crippled demo,

    When I was a starving student (and associate engineer struggling to pay rent), I had a very slim budget, and would play "warez" until I could save/beg/borrow enough to buy the full versions, and I would *unless* the game sucked anyway. Now that I can afford software and music, I make it a point not to pirate copyrighted info, but I will still "evaluate" music before I buy it from MPAA publishers. And most people I know feel the same way.

    So, the real product that DRM protects is the "Turd in a Can," a product that the consumer would not pay for if they knew beforehand that they were buying crap.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      The great flaw in this argument is that you miss one case: People who will pirate because it's cheap, but do have the money and would buy it if the free option didn't exist.

      Yes, those people exist. Yes, most people will choose "free" over "not free" any day of the week, especially those who don't consider copyright law to be worth the paper it's printed on.

      I mean yes, the numbers thrown around by the BSA are complete nonsense. But the number in most cases for lost sales is > $0. If actually effective DRM

    • When I didn't have much money, I didn't buy or play games often. The games that I would buy were usually a few years old costing a fraction of what new ones would. And I'd be able to play them on an inexpensive computer. I saved a huge amount of money over all on gaming. Plus most of the classics are just as good now as they were back then.

      In most cases there were reliable reviews out there and communities surrounding the ones that are worthwhile. It doesn't particularly bother me to pay for old games. Best

  • by GTarrant (726871) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:24PM (#27940267)
    'I believe their argument is that while DRM doesn't work perfectly,' says Wardell, 'it does make it more difficult for someone to get the game for free in the first five or six days of its release. That's when a lot of the sales take place and that's when the royalties from the retailers are determined. Publishers would be very happy for a first week without "warez" copies circulating on the Web.'"

    Let us consider, for a moment, a DRM-loaded game from the past year.

    Spore.

    Its DRM was considered by some to be so limiting that some people simply never played the game. People were exasperated that, at release, it allowed only one user account per copy. That installs couldn't be "restored" by uninstalling the game (many of these things have been added since).

    OK, so all that said, copies of Spore were still readily available for download a week prior to release on torrent sites all over the world. Despite cumbersome DRM, that in some cases prevented actual customers from being able to extract full enjoyment from the product they purchased, anyone that wanted a DRM-free copy could still have gotten one prior to the release of the game.

    Lesson: It. Doesn't. Work.

    Maybe...maybe it prevents someone from taking the game to a friend's house and installing it, or the like. But it isn't preventing wide-scale piracy, even during that "critical first week".

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Fallout 3 suffered some pretty bad DRM faults as well:
      SecuROM found process explorer, refused to launch
      SecuROM didn't like certain brands of DVD-R/RW drives, refused to launch
      SecuROM found debugging applications, refused to launch
      SecuROM found burning software, refused to launch
      SecuROM installed shell extensions and hooks

      All this from a supposed "disk check." Luckily, they packaged SecuROM in the launcher, not the executable itself, so you can bypass the DRM by simply running Fallout3.exe instead.
  • I never buy a game in the first month, let along the first week of a release. Mostly, I'm waiting for the quality of the game to become apparent after some play in the real world, and also I don't like the bleeding-edge prices of new releases.

    Avoiding weird DRM is another benefit.

    After a few days or weeks, the real effects of whatever cockamamie DRM scheme the publishers crowbarred onto the game become apparent.

    After a few weeks or months, applications like Alcohol 120 will adapt so that I can be assured of making backups.

    After a few months to a year, the price starts to dip into my admittedly modest range. By then, I know whether I can keep the game for myself if the company goes out of business, whether I'm facing potential hassle in making my own backups, and whether the game is worth it in the first place.

    After a few years, the game may re-release with digital distributors under no-DRM agreements geared toward truly enthusiastic gaming communities. Witness GOG.com [gog.com].

    Gaming on the long tail rules -- provided you're not desperate to get hopped up on the Newest, Shiniest Thing.

  • One Week? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by torkus (1133985) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:48PM (#27940641)

    Get real. When was the last time a popular game* was released and it wasn't available that day via P2P? In fact you often see them days BEFORE release on P2P already cracked and ready to go.

    I remember when Spore came out the first day or two had something like 30,000 seeders on TPB. Even right now there's about 15k people seeding both the star trek movie and the latest episode of fringe ... and as many people downloading. And this is just ONE tracker. It's actually faster to download the game/movie than drive to the store and buy it half of the time.

    Any software company that deludes themselves into believing DRM stops piracy by any significant amount delusional. It's all about preventing resale...which is still detrimental to the customer. Stupid how a library can rend DVDs, CDs and books but somehow software managed to squeak in such an exception.

    * Excluding exclusively online games (aka WoW, etc.)

  • by sexconker (1179573) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:52PM (#27940729)

    "What they're trying to do is stop people from going to GameStop to buy $50 games for $35, none of which goes into the publishers' pockets."

    Really?
    Last time I checked, Gamestop sells used games a day or two after they come out (at $60) for $55.

    And I haven't seen a PC game or peripheral (new or used) in a Gamestop in ages.

  • by The Cisco Kid (31490) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:53PM (#27940759)

    I mean, carmakers worry about it enough to *advertise* their car's historical resale value (well, if its good, eg Honda).

    Granted, I suppose 'gamerz' probably dont worry *quite* as much about resale value when deciding to buy a game as someone buying a new car, but with the way the economy is going, they might start doing so more and more.

    Just like companies that don't offer support (even documentation) on older products becuase they don't sell them anymore - no concept whatsoever that resale value might affect the price the market is willing to pay for new products.

  • by Greyfox (87712) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @01:02PM (#27940897) Homepage Journal
    With the resurgence of actual piracy off the Horn of Africa, people who copy games off the internet will be demoted to their old classification: Thieves.

    Case in point:
    Fire hoses do not work against pirates equipped with rocket propelled grenades.
    Fire hoses have not be tested on thieves. EA may be working on the technology.

    DRM has not been tested on pirates. The Coast Guard may be working on the technology (You pirate, you can no longer listen to your ipod! Bwahahaha!)
    DRM does not work on thieves.

    Shooting them in the head works on pirates.
    Shooting them in the head is against the rules of engagement for thieves in this class. EA may be working to change that.

  • Idiots (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anenome (1250374) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @02:31PM (#27942351) Homepage

    Here's the problem: That $50 price includes the game's value at resale. If the resale value is $35, then you're diminishing the value of the original purchase price by making it impossible for a 2nd buyer to use. Simple, basic economics. So, if you remove that functionality, some of which justifies the $50 price, the game is no longer worth $50, because the value of its resale is now gone.

    So, the result of adding DRM to your game and not lowering your price to reflect the diminished value is that your game now appears overpriced. Good job, you've now guaranteed yourself flagging sales because of greed.

    Imagine if car companies programmed their cars to self-destruct if sold to a second buyer. It's ridiculous. The argument that second hand sales take money out of the pocket's of the producers? Ridiculous also. Just stop it, you idiotic, economically ignorant publishers. Focus on making a damn good game, one that's good enough to purchase in the first place.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      How does this even make sense? GameStop doesn't sell used -PC- games, which is what this "limited install" DRM is made for. Hard to resell a game with a serial code.

      • Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)

        by snl2587 (1177409) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:24PM (#27940281)

        Hard to resell a game with a serial code.

        Yes, yes it is. Especially if the game has an online multi-player component. But what about for single-player games? That's where limited-install makes sense for the developers and why Gamestop has a hard time with used PC software.

        • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Dyinobal (1427207) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:32PM (#27940395)
          I've been into gamestop before and opened their 'empty' cases to find serial numbers inside. Once I've something like that there is almost nothing keeping me from going to say 'battlenet' and registering that copy of warcraft as my own. They even let me download the game from their site as well. I never buy PC games from gamestop simply because you can't be sure someone hasn't already nipped the serial number from it.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        GameStop doesn't sell used PC games because they have install restrictions. PC game producers admit to using said restrictions to limit or eliminate the resale value that businesses such as GameStop capitalize on. If these restrictions weren't in place, used PC games would have resale value, so GameStop would (in theory anyway) be interested in selling them.
        I agree that a case filed by GameStop doesn't make much sense... PC game producers aren't legally obligated to follow GameStop's business model. On the

    • No, the game companies ought to give the games away for free, and charge people to connect to their servers.

      UsernameID should be enough to satisfy DRM, since it is tied directly to a user. People buying a RETAIL copy of a game should get a certain number of USER registrations (suggested value = 5) for people in a house.

      If they did this, then they would have their cake, and eat it too. Single people could share their Install Code 4 times and spread the popularity and such.

      The solution is EASY if one can just

      • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)

        by socrplayr813 (1372733) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @01:06PM (#27940967)

        I can't speak for everyone, but I don't want to connect to a server if I don't have to. Most of my favorite games are primarily single player (ie. Civilization). A lot of them have a multiplayer component, but there are tons of people that never touch that.

        For games that are primarily multiplayer, I agree that a small fee for the initial install along with a monthly fee is reasonable, but not for single player games. I think this is dangerous territory too. It could lead to separate single/multiplayer editions where they get to charge you extra for small additions to a game.

        • Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Archangel Michael (180766) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @01:26PM (#27941267) Journal

          The solution for single player games is just as easy. Make it easier to get the game than to pirate it. The assumption here is that you're not connected to the network, now you have to go to a store (game stop) or whatever to buy the game. Make it easy (less expensive).

          If they have a connection to the internet, but the game is single player (eg Civ), then make it available online even cheaper than retail.

          Who cares about finding a Torrent or cracked version that isn't spyware/virus plagued when it is just as easy to go get it from the source?

          Pirates only operate where it pays to pirate, and the commodity is scarce. If you offer a good product and service at a fair price, you'll have customers. Yes, there will be people who STEAL (yes I said steal) the game to play, but that is not the software company's problem. They are going to do it anyways.

          The point is get to a point of "why would I need to Crack and Torrent something that is so easy to get from SOFTGAMECO?"

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm no lawyer either, but I believe that only applies to trademarks, not copyrights.

    • Re:Just an thought. (Score:5, Informative)

      by TinBromide (921574) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:16PM (#27940137)
      You're thinking of trademarks. You have to defend trademarks or you lose it. Copyright is yours to enforce at any time unless you give it away.

      They're defending thier IP in the eyes of the shareholders. Every public company has an obligation to its shareholders, if the current command structure lets pirated copies leak out from every hole, the shareholders might get new company leaders.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      It's not copyright-- you are granted a copyright automatically under US law. I believe you are thinking of trademarks, which have nothing to do with DRM.

      As someone who is involved with having to decide whether DRM goes into our products or not (I work for a book publisher), I can tell you that we are most certainly aware that DRM does not 'work'. We are under no illusions that it is tamperproof. However, we are also aware that DRM can make something 'hard enough' to copy that only really motivated peop
    • Not at all. (Score:4, Informative)

      by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:24PM (#27940273) Journal

      If you don't defend a trademark, you can lose it. I'm not sure how this applies to copyright.

      That's why RMS doesn't like the term "Intellectual Property", by the way. It's a vague concept that combines three very different bodies of law: Trademarks, Patents, and Copyrights.

      For that matter, think about just about every copyleft-style license -- GPL, Creative Commons, etc -- do those become invalid just because people are copying them? No.

      If such a law exists at all (for copyright, instead of trademarks), I would think it would have to do with actually legally defending your copyright -- as in, when you're aware of the vendor down the block selling burned pirate copies, you should sue him. It absolutely has nothing to do with taking the law into your own hands with DRM.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Pirating the game later has the same effect as buying the game second hand as far as the publisher is concerned, but by pirating it you don't support the second hand market, which benefits the publisher. I might see such practices justified for games that break the second hand market, but if they have no/reasonable DRM, I can't say I entirely agree with you.
      • by gnasher719 (869701) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:35PM (#27940453)

        Pirating the game later has the same effect as buying the game second hand as far as the publisher is concerned, but by pirating it you don't support the second hand market, which benefits the publisher. I might see such practices justified for games that break the second hand market, but if they have no/reasonable DRM, I can't say I entirely agree with you.

        I think you've got that backwards. By buying used games (instead of pirating), you give money to people who bought the new game, reducing the effective cost for them, and making it possible for them to buy more new games. Say I have $50 to spend, and used games sell for $25. So I can buy one game for $50, you pirate the same game, that's it. Or I buy a game for $50, three months later you buy it used for $25, I buy another game for $50, three months later you buy it used for $25, so it cost me the same $50, but the manufacturer got $100. So buying used games _does_ support the manufacturer by making new games less costly.

      • by lordofthechia (598872) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:41PM (#27940545)

        "same effect as buying the game second hand as far as the publisher is concerned"

        The publishers need to focus on games that have replay value (so more people will want to keep them) and being competitive (adaptive pricing). The reason used video game stores exist is that many people aren't willing to pay $50 to $60 for a new game.

        Now if PC game companies were more aggressive with their pricing then they could compete with the used market. Just look at console games "Greatest Hits", "Players Choice", and "Platinum" titles. If a game has a 2nd hand market, many publishers will re-release the game at $20 to $30, taking the wind out of the 2nd hand market (why pay $17.49 for a used copy of game X when you can get it new for $20!).

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Uh, no it's not. Your account, yes. Your PC, no. You can only play online with the same copy from one place at any one time, but it's by no means locked to your PC.

      Also, insert generic Slashdot joke re: girlfriends/children #46 here.

    • by Tridus (79566) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:27PM (#27940325) Homepage

      I've got Stardock games on multiple computers right now, all at the current version, quite easily. I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Hell, the EULA explicitly says you can have it on more then one computer at once (two in Demigod's case).

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      In addition to the above comments noting that it is just tied to your account, not your PC, note that the GOO system allows you to deactivate a game on your account and transfer it to another. 1 minute spent googling "transfer stardock games" would have found this out for you. Try doing a little research next time your tempted to make assumptions about how something works that you have no knowledge of.

    • by internerdj (1319281) on Wednesday May 13 2009, @12:46PM (#27940595)
      Yeah, so every time some idiot hits the telephone pole the next block down or an idiot builder augers through the neighborhood cable line or my cable company has a hardware problem I can't watch TV, I can't surf the internet, and I also can't play any game that I've paid for? I don't use Comcast any more for this and other reasons but they charged me for a full month of service despite my cable being out for over a week. Do I get a discount on my service if I can't access this software service for a week through no fault of my own? Probably not, especially if it is some other company's fault.

      Also the moment I have to pay every time I open up a text document is the moment I stop using computers at home period and I'm a developer. There is no reason for every company in the world to nickle and dime me. I won't pay a monthly subscription to play a game I already paid $50 for and I won't pay a monthly subscription to do basic things with my computer. I also wouldn't pay for a single listening instance of a song.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      That model would mean the death of so much of what I love about games, that I'm not sure I'd bother to keep playing new ones. Certainly I've got a long enough backlog of older games to play that it'd take me a few years to get through, and that's not counting any re-plays.

      I like being able to re-visit older games, like a book. I like mods, and very often they make the game so much better that it's hard to imagine playing it without them (Morrowind, Oblivion, Rome:Total War). I only play console games on

"I have five dollars for each of you." -- Bernhard Goetz