4728803
story
Comments: 210 +- Games: Sony Unveils PS3 Motion Controller on Wednesday June 03 2009, @09:17AM
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicinputdevices.gif); width:70px; height:68px;
inputdev
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicps2.gif); width:79px; height:55px;
playstation
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicsony.gif); width:81px; height:16px;
sony
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicentertainment.gif); width:62px; height:44px;
entertainment
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicgames.gif); width:68px; height:77px;
games
Sony confirmed rumors at E3 yesterday by debuting their take on a motion-based input device, set to be released for use with the PS3 in the spring of 2010. The BBC has some entertaining video of the demonstration. "A sensor sits on top of the TV and detects the position, distance and movement of two controllers held in a user's hand. The device can not only measure where the controllers are in relation to each other, but also how close they are to the sensor, meaning you can create true 3D movement within a game. ... During the demonstration, the developers showed what the Sony PlayStation Controller was capable of, enabling users to wield weapons, fire a bow and arrow, write on screen and manipulate objects in a virtual environment. 'One thing that is really difficult to do in a virtual world is drawing,' said Mr Marks. 'And in particular, writing requires extreme precision. [The controller can be measured] to sub-millimetre accuracy.'"
Related Stories
Motion Control To Lengthen Console Hardware Cycles 160 comments
Hardware: Nintendo Unconcerned By Motion-Control Competitors 150 comments
The Fall and Rise of Motion Control For Games 131 comments
It is sweet to let the mind unbend on occasion.
-- Quintus Horatius Flaccus (Horace)
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2010 Geeknet, Inc.
I hope all these motion controllers fail horribly. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not because they're a terrible idea.... Mostly because they're all patented. If one vendor's system "wins", we all lose.
Without competition, there are no price wars.. There's no innovation.. You're lucky if there are even incremental upgrades.
Re:I hope all these motion controllers fail horrib (Score:5, Insightful)
Patents don't prevent competition. You're confused.
Unfair licensing practises prevent competition.
Patenting actual hardware device innovations shouldn't be up for debate, its almost always a good thing for innovation. The problem is not licensing patents to competitors at fair rates.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
But then isn't the easiest way to solve that to just do away with patents on input devices?
Re:I hope all these motion controllers fail horrib (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not confused. Let me fix your comment.
No sane console vendor would license a patented killer feature to the competition at any price.
I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be able to patent this stuff. It wasn't an anti-patent rant... It's more of a lament of where gameplay innovation has gone to. Novel input methods aren't born in the arcade and then licensed for home use anymore. They're cooked up by the console makers as a bludgeon to kill off competition.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
They're cooked up by the console makers as a bludgeon to kill off competition.
Isn't trying to beat their competition precisely what corporations should be doing? This isn't a special olympics race where everyone ends up winning regardless of how you badly you do.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. Without patents, Sony or Microsoft could simply sell their own Wii and be done with it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I hope all these motion controllers fail horrib (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Sigh... (Score:4, Insightful)
Mouse and keyboard will STILL be better and more accurate for FPS games, and dual analogue sticks will still be better for platformers. I can see these controllers being pretty good for DS type games, using your TV like a touchscreen, even a 3d touchscreen (some sort of 3d maze game, where you have to drag a ball through a 3d maze). Otherwise, I still prefer existing control options...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a learning curve for developers to understand and properly use this new interface. The first FPS that used the Wiimote (Red Steel) only sorta worked, but with the Metroid game, the experience was much better. There was a rush at first to try and shove motion controls into everything, but I think that was more just because it was new and trendy and a bullet point on the back of your game box. Now that motion control novelty has started to wear off, hopefully developers won't feel that they need to fo
Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Insightful)
now a game like RE4 seemed built to use the Wii controller, along with a game like metroid prime (a little less so). The "Limited FPS" (aim anywhere on the screen, but character position is still controlled by analogue sticks or is on rails) seems to be the best use of the wii controls. Other games like Boom Blox are unthinkable without a wii controller.
I'm not trying to blame the 50:1 ratio of bad:good games on waggle controls, that's probably more related to the fact that the Wii has sold so much. However, I can only think of a handful of games that are improved upon by motion controls. I guess that's my main point, that I don't think there are enough instances of good games that require motion controls to require each console to have motion controls.
Parent
But games are for fun, not efficiency...Re:Sigh... (Score:4, Interesting)
It doesn't feel natural to me to use a mouse to control and fire a firearm, or a sword and besides, I sit at a chair and push a mouse around all day at work (and sometimes longer) --- it's not something I want to do for leisure.
The Wii allows for interesting, natural interfaces which minimize button mashing and allow for more immersion, which for me equates to fun.
Better still, one can use various gun shells to improve the verisimilitude --- I've even been making Wii Zapper-like pistols in my wood shop and handing them out to co-workers along w/ used copies of Link's Crossbow Training so that we can all compete for high scores.
Do yourself a favour, open your mind, get your keister out of your chair, grab a Wii Zapper or other gun shell (the Nyko Perfect Shot Pistol is excellent if you have large hands) and try an FPS on a WII, e.g.:
- ranger levels in _Link's Crossbow Training_
- Quantum of Solace --- this game is quite a bit of fun, almost as good as Goldeneye
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
- Medal of Honor
- Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
- House of the Dead: Overkill
Unfortunately Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition doesn't work well w/ a standard gun shell, though GameStop makes a 2-button one which does work w/ it.
A game which almost makes it is the prosaically named Ski and Shoot (a biathlon game) which also supports the Wii Balance Board --- I'd really like to see an FPS which did this well.
William
Parent
Almost identical to Wii Motion Plus (Score:5, Informative)
Both systems need accelerometers + gyros to sense the controller rotation (X & Y absolute, Z relative).
The Wii uses a camera on the remote and targets in the sensor bar to detect position and Z-rotation (absolute).
The PS3 thingy uses a camera on the TV and a target on the controller to detect position. I don't know how it detects Z-rotation (absolute); maybe it uses a magnetometer?
The PS3 can track position better because the Eye can see the controller most of the time. The Wii tracks better when the controller is pointed at the screen.
Drawing? (Score:5, Funny)
The one caveat is... (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The eyes have it? (Score:2)
Only a gimmick when Nintendo does it? (Score:3, Informative)
Because I remember Sony dissing the Wii controller every which way when Nintendo presented it.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Too late in the game (Score:4, Insightful)
plf (Score:2, Insightful)
drawing with the wii controller is hard not because of accuracy but cos of the resolution, target size (i.e small TV) and lack of friction for stability like you'd get with paper.
Can you still innovate in the console market ? (Score:5, Funny)
- Yes Wii can !
Time for another video game crash? (Score:3, Interesting)
Really, I'm asking in all seriousness. The things that were presented in E3 seemed as gimmicky as when they first were thought of(u-force, etc). Almost 20 years ago we had the gimmick of "multimedia" with games having FMV sequences, and it ended up being a bunch of bad Sega CD games.
Then I thought of the video game crash(no more Atari, Coleco, Intelly, etc) and what good came out of it: a revamped market that wasn't the same ol same ol. A cleansing with fire.
I remember the "pop the bubbles" game that came free with a webcam. Amusing for roughly 5 minutes. Sony's wand seems like they are just trying to catch up to the Wii, but it's too late.
Probably doomed to mediocrity and failure (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has much the same problem, even though I think that the technology is amazing. Their core audience probably couldn't care less about the device and generally prefer using console controls to play their games. Because it's an add-on, most companies will not target the device because it has no install base and few people will buy one because there are no killer apps for it. Notice the vicious circle here. I'm honestly surprised that the balance board for the Wii has sold even half as much as it has.
If Microsoft really wants to push this technology their next console should include this by default and there should be a stripped down version sold at a mass market price so that people outside of hardcore gamer group will buy the console. Sony really needs to do the same as well if it wants to cash in on the casual gaming crowd. However, what they've done now is too late as the casual gamer boat has already set sail. Of course, it may be another two years before either Microsoft or Sony can release a new console. Microsoft supposedly just started to break even recently and has a lot of losses to eat up whereas Sony might not even be at the break-even point from what I've heard.
"The controller can be measured..." (Score:3, Funny)
"(The controller can be measured) to sub-millimeter accuracy."
Big deal. Get a good enough caliper and you can measure any old NES controller to sub-millimeter accuracy, too.
No head tracking? :-( (Score:3, Interesting)
What happened to head tracking? They demoed it a year ago http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/27/ps3-head-tracking-only-needs-camera/ [joystiq.com] - however TFA doesn't even mention it. A pity, it would have been a killer feature...
I've got to be more careful when reading... (Score:3, Funny)
"A senior sits on top of the TV and detects the position, distance and movement of two controllers held in a user's hand..."
My first thought was to picture an elderly person sitting on top of my TV.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's sad that Nintendo pioneered it - and moreso because the Wiimote is such a mediocre solution.
Seriously, the more I played Wii Sports Golf and Wii Sports Tennis, the more I knew they'd screwed up. It works well enough for "big" movements - basic tennis swing, big golf swing, bat swing, etc - but for the "fine" motions, such as imparting "spin" to the tennis ball or trying to make a putt, the controller is Simply. Not. Sensitive. Enough.
As the tech matures, it'll get better - but Big N's already, by produ
Re:First! (Score:5, Insightful)
Good enough by what standards? Mate, they rule the market. What more could they have wanted from a box that actually rakes in cash instead of costing the company hard $?
How many years is the Wii old now? And only now do Sony and Microsoft emerge with their own 'innovative' controller technology. How many billions of dollars is Nintendo ahead of them at this point?
Be glad. If anything, this will push Nintendo to come up with something even better. That can only be good for us gamers, right?
Parent
Re:First! (Score:5, Insightful)
Same thing happens with Flash games, but at least there I can see it as a hate for the Flash platform bleeding into the objectionability. As for Wii hate, I have no idea where it comes from.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I actually find the opposite is true.
Just about everyone that I talk to that has played the Wii absolutely *loved* it, no matter how much they doubted it before hand. Regardless of the WiiMotes issues (I can't play my Wii in mid afternoon... too much sunlight) it *WAS* innovative. You have to give credit to a company that has such high demand for the product that its still selling out almost 2 years after its release.
Can Sony and MS say that? Can they even say that they've made a penny on their systems?
The
Re:First! (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:First! (Score:4, Insightful)
Gamers have to dislike the Wii, it makes the market open and accessible to non-gamers. It's Gamer Law (or should that be lore?) you have to hate the n00bs and anything they touch gets the stigma of n00b.
Parent
Re:First! (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't wholly agree with the GP, but just like there are fanboys for a particular platform (irrational support of and expenditure on a particular company's products) there are anti-fanboys (irrational distaste and malaise expressed towards a particular company's products) - call it the law of conservation of market preference. I think it's reasonable to say, also, that the size and vocality of a given anti-fanclub is as good (or perhaps even better) an indicator of the success of a product as that of its fanclub.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
His point stands on its own merits. "Good enough for making accurate movement calculations for new games" would be a good extension of the sentence though.
Nintendo's making a better motion controller. If they're making one, there's a perceived need for one. That's all.
Re: (Score:2)
"As the tech matures, it'll get better - but Big N's already, by producing an "add-on" sensor to tweak the sensitivity, admitting their initial setup wasn't good enough."
And Microsoft and Sony years latter coming up with a motion controller are admitting that Nintendo got it right.
This and Microsoft's look cool but will they work with four players at once? How many games will use it since it is an add on? And how much?
Sony's solution requires not just the wand but also an eyetoy.
Hey it may be really cool bu
Re:First! (Score:4, Insightful)
Well every console that is popular eventual ends up with a large amount of Shovelware. The PS2 is a great example of that.
Yes Nintendo was a control freak. They where because Atari lost control and that was one of the reasons that the Videogame market went bust way back when. The Atari was so popular that everybody flooded the market with really terrible games. There where some gems but most where just trash. Of course Atari released one of the biggest stinkers of all time with ET.
And frankly Sony? Sony? Rook kit pushing, DRM loving, memory stick, Blu-Ray pushing, buy your movies again on UMD, no Sony movies on NetFlix streaming SONY????
I will take big N thank you than give even more power to Sony.
You hold a grudge over Nintendo being too controlling in the past but you like Sony?
But hey I do like my PS2 and there are lot of games for it.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The controller is not incredibly precise, but this does not have to be a huge hurdle in a game. The golf game in Wii Sports may not be very good for putting, but compare and contrast with Tiger Woods '08 (not '07 which is known to be flawed, and '09 which "fixed" something that was not broken), where putting is not hard to control at all. It has some issues getting t
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, the more I played Wii Sports Golf and Wii Sports Tennis, the more I knew they'd screwed up.
You "knew they'd screwed up"? Really? Because the control setup of Golf and Tennis games on the PS3 were a better arrangement? Something they had really 'gotten right'?
but Big N's already, by producing an "add-on" sensor to tweak the sensitivity, admitting their initial setup wasn't good enough.
Bottom line, if the original hadn't been 'good enough', there wouldn't be a motion plus, or copy-cat technology fr
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Yep. The PowerGlove.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Retardball Z? No thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
Then go make one and use that instead. What keeps you? My longbow is ready to be used at any time, but using it, even in a virtual environment, in my home is not something I particularly want to do.
Re:I think, (Score:5, Insightful)
Then stop playing on consoles, and go join an archery club.
Parent
Re:I think, (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously though, you might want to give it a try. I know you want to do ever-more-outrageous things in console games (like shooting people), but that's because the main theme of the game (interaction with the controls, possible results, learning to master it) get boring really quickly. In real life, all of these things are much more varied and interesting; different bows, different strings, your muscles on different days, different wind, different targets, different people to compete with, different arrows, different flights. Even just the pain as a string hits your hand to remind you that you're doing it all wrong. You might even find that (*gasp*) you don't need to kill people to have fun.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Big deal...give me NetFlix (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Also, expect it to be full of DRM so you can't make your own.
I don't think that term means what you think it does. DRM has to do with restrictions on the copying and playback of digital media files. What exactly does that have to do with a gaming controller?
Re:underwhelming (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent