Eurogamer has a story about how the design of motion-control input devices has evolved over the years, ranging from the Nintendo Power Glove and Sega Activator up to modern devices like the Wii Remote and the upcoming projects by Sony and Microsoft. Now that the technology has caught up with the ideas, EA CEO John Riccitello said he expects motion-control gaming to rapidly expand, eventually occupying half the total games market. He said, "We almost invested to create a platform extension like that for some of the games we're working on. We're very pleased, frankly, that it showed up at Microsoft, because I'd rather them pay for that. They can leverage it better, and we can build software. But I felt the market wanted that technology and I'm glad it's coming."
The Wii controller is alot more useful than its given credit for, its a bluetooth HID and actually works really well on a computer, with a driver for it of course. I seen them used to control everything from WoW to a presentation.
Wii Motion+ seems to me like the kind of feature that the Wiimote should have shipped with in the first place. You shouldn't have to replace core functionality with better hardware halfway through your product's lifecycle.
Why not? If it wasn't ready then it's not like the original product didn't work. You choose if you want to upgrade by spending the money or not. I don't see why people don't PREFER options, vs. abhorring them.
It's not that people abhor options, but you do have to look pragmatically at both the pros and cons of add-on peripherals in the console marketplace.
From a simple numbers perspective, it means you've split your consumer-base. An add-on peripheral is never going to be as widely supported as original hardware. It also means that developers will be much less likely to *design* an entire game around the functionality of that new add-on, because they also have to think about how to make the game functional and fun for original Wii hardware.
Unless it comes with EVERY Wii, new hardware simply won't be taken advantage of to same degree, and with the substantial improvements of Wii Motion plus, it just seems a shame it wasn't working like that to begin with.
Intelligent developers would have a two-mode support - if you've got it, use it, but if you don't, fall back to the old method. It worked for Sony with the original PSX/PS1 controllers and their Dual-shock replacements with analogue sticks + rumble - by the end of the PS1's life, most games had support for analogue sticks, with fall-back to the d-pad (less ideal) for those who still had the original controllers. Helped that the dual-shock was bundled with the console shortly after its introduction too, thou
It's strange. Normally this kind of thing is avoided entirely by console makers in that it's not simply a nominally enhanced experience that isn't integral to the gameplay (see classic rumble packs), but rather it splits the functional requirements of the userbase entirely in two.
It's really going to hinder the studio adoption of the tech, leading to either outright avoidance of it or including optional support in a way that isn't really integral to the game, making it a useless upgrade anyway.
I find it odd to hear EA talking about how motion controls will "someday" make up 50% of console gaming. Meanwhile the Wii has about 50% marketshare already according to stats put out by the big 3. Seems to me we are already at about 50%.
Yeah, but what you must realize... all the consoles pushed.. maybe 20% still play the wii. Mine's been collecting dust as my brothers and my best friends wifes. She bought wii fit, played it for like 2 weeks then that fad wore off. I play my 360 4-5 times a week.. My wii gets used when someone comes over, and even then the fad has kind of worn off.
Yeah, and while having all three consoles (and many games for all), I play my Wii the most, both for Virtual Console, Gamecube and native Wii games. I love all my systems (ye gods, I sound like a parent with kids), but I play with my Wii the most. I usually spend some time playing with my Wii before I go to bed, as it's more relaxing and helps me fall asleep. My PS3 and 360 get more use when a big game comes out, but I find myself coming back to my Wii after some time passes.
2. Whilst the Wii has sold well I'd be surprised (but I guess not too surprised) if it made up 50% of the living room console market when games are taken into account.
Nexgenwars.com has the Wii at 50% of this generation of consoles - emphasis on this generation. The PS2 still has a pretty wide install base and is slated to continue receiving games through next year. The Wii doesn't have 50% market share.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: The good Wii games don't use the motion controller unless it's the primary control system. They use the infrared pointer, and cry a tear of joy about having a gamepad and a mouse at the same time.
Yet most Wii games don't really use motion controls at all... They either ignore it, or convert "Waggle" to a button press.
Punch-Out for the Wii supports both motion and button+pad controls. But to be actually successful at the game, you can't use the motion controls. They're just not responsive enough.
Don't forget the mobile market. According to NPD, in April mobile sales were: 1,040,000 DSes and DSis 116,000 PSPs
iPhones/iTouches weren't in that report, but going by the quarterly numbers apple releases, they sold 3,793,000 iPhones in the Quarter ending March 28. And they mentioned earlier that there were 18Million iPhones out of 30Million iPhones/iTouches, so holding that ratio constant, they sold about 6,321,667 iPhones/iTouches over a 3 month period, or 2,107,222 devices per month.
On the other hand - Microsoft is coming out with the Natal motion system and I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 had something in the works too (does it??).
I'm sure it's great for party games and other casual things, but I can't imagine playing a first person shooter, or, God forbid a fighter. Can you imagine the conversations you'd overhear?
1st man : What's wrong with you? 2nd man : I'm knackered, I was playing Gears of War for an hour last night, I had to rearrange my living room to make adequate room for the cover spots. 1st man : Yeah, chainsawing is a bitch too 2nd man : Hey, where's Billy? 1st man : Didn't you hear? He was playing Street Fighter 4, did a screw pile driver and broke his Coccyx.
Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.
Very cute, but it's really not that different from a mouse-and-keyboard setup. Which, you know, those rather un-casual Counterstrike types tend to like.
You can adjust the controls in MP3 to have a smaller center-area, the game plays then a good bit smoother then with the default. However that type of control setup you propose has one 'little' problem, it would make it impossible to hit something. The smaller you make the center-area the harder it is to keep the view steady, if you make it really small, it makes it impossible to keep your aim steady, so you would be constantly rotate around your target instead of actually aiming at it. The only way it works
Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.
For the 1000th time
-"Casual" is only an insult to immature gamers who take themselves way too seriously. Using it as an insult makes you and the gaming community look ridiculous. Trying to contrast yourself to "casual" gaming also is ridiculous.
-"Casual" and "real/hardcore/super duper/other artificial term you come up with to make yourself sound better" are not mutually exclusive. It is actually possible to play wii fit and then play WoW or whatever games you prefer. The videogame police will really not
"Casual" is only an insult because you're making it one. All the GP post actually said was that it only works for people who play the game casually. In other words, those who don't take it too seriously or spend a significant amount of time on it.
A friend of mine once broke a leg and, when I asked him what happened, he replied "I fell off a motorcycle." Since we weren't old enough to ride motorcycles back then, I was very surprised. Seeing this, he continued: "A motorcycle at the arcade." This was in the 90's.
I expect it will have best effect when used as a combination of the controller and the motion sensing, i.e. for motion sensing leaning round from cover could be done fairly trivially wheras it obviously won't cut it for running across a battlefield. How about casting spells in Oblivion style games etc. Having heard that Natal is capable of tracking 42 joints (or something) I don't think it's too hard to imagine casting different spells by using alternating hands and hand gestures. Maybe even something elabor
This is why i feel Sixaxis is so underrated. Its a great blend of regular controller with some light motion control when appropriate. The only game ive seen abuse the sixaxis is Lair.
The Sixaxis, as utilized in the otherwise middling PS3 Super Smash Brothers clone Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fists of Plastic, does exactly what I'd hoped Nintendo would have done with SSB on the Wii.
The controls are generally as you would expect, but there are some wonderful little motion-based touches: Want to try pulling off a particularly big whack? You jolt the controller in the direction you're punching. Ground-pound area-of-effect attack? Jolt the controller downward as you punch.
Which games do use Sixaxis for anything useful? By far most seem to completly ignore it, a tiny few are all motion controls (Rub a Dub, Flower) and another few do make very light use of it (MetalGear4). But overall I haven't seen a single game that uses motion controls for something that couldn't be done with an analag stick just as well. For me SIXAXIS looks like a solution waiting for a problem, but then I haven't seen all PS3 games so I might be missing something.
Longer answer: I think an ideal controller is one that makes up for all the things we CAN'T do well in meatspace, allowing us to do them in bitspace. Not one that favours the jocks, but one that favours the brains.
The wii was destined to be a fad from the start, much like similar approaches in the past in the arcades. Sure, they attracted users due to the novelty, but pretty soon they'd going to discover that hitting a baseball with a make-believe and unresponsive/overresponsive "bat" in front of a computer isn't nearly as fun as doing it with a REAL bat and ball. And comparing games to games, they're not as fun in the long run as games where your decisions are more important than your physical coordination.
Yes, physical controllers are a fad. A reoccurring fad. They have their place, but won't ever take over, because they will always be a poor facsimile for the real thing, and can't compete with the controllers that are designed to let you do MORE than what's physically possible.
Not one that favours the jocks, but one that favours the brains.
The reality is that current motion controller games fall into this category already; you need only apply your brain and your reflexes, which last I checked were not considered to be the exclusive purview of the jocks among us. Unfortunately, video games that don't expect you to move around at all truly do engender fat asses and poor muscle tone. Sure, not all gamers have a fat ass, but if all you do is play games you'll get that way.
Yes, physical controllers are a fad. A reoccurring fad. They have their place, but won't ever take over, because they will always be a poor facsimile for the real thing, and can't compete with the controllers that are designed to let you do MORE than what's physically possible.
You can do more than is physically possible without a controller, too. We'r
The wii controller does not really require you to make exactly the same motion as hitting a bat with a ball or throwing a punch. It's a hybrid. You only need to flick your wrist. This does involve reflexes. It does not involve strength and to a lesser extent, stamina. It is still a lot of coordination. I think the old fighting games where you had to punch in a 10 button combination and get "nintendo thumb" is almost the same thing. The range of motion required for the wii mote is only slightly more than the
They really need to add some more buttons to the Xbox/PS controllers to be usable to me. Until then, they are nothing but cheap knockoffs for keyboards. A keyboard has what, 100+ keys? Then you add in Shift/Ctrl/Alt modifiers, and that gives you like 5000 combinations. Give me a 5000 button controller, and maybe then I'll think about buying an Xbox, Playstation.
And don't tell me I should conform to how Sony and Microsoft say a gamer should play games. I'll play them the way I want, or ELSE!! That'll s
I want a kunfu game where my actions dodge or hit the enemies. And I don't want it to be cheesy where my moves are interpreted into a set move that could have been done with a joystick or keyboard. I want my punch's(or kick) velocity and hit placement to determine the damage dealt.
I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind rather than the reflexes. I suspect that increased availability of these devices and the technology will make FPS and "arcade" style games even more dominant than they already are. They will entice kids to "think with their hands" instead of their heads. It may be true that the majority are already inclined or predisposed to that, but it doesn't help shift the Bell Curve when Big Business panders to the median for the sake of profit rather than trying to help shift the median to the right a little.
I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind rather than the reflexes.
So you would prefer a WiiEEGmote? An interesting idea, especially for games with force feedback control.
How would this "WiiEEGmote" work? If it lets me move the mouse and select/click items with a focused thought, that's a LOT more generalized than just a gaming device, no? Hasn't mouse tracking that follows the gaze of the human eye already been demonstrated, too? (Of course that's an error-prone and wasteful method, since you might look at something that you don't need to select or manipulate.) What else would this WiiEEGmote do?
I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind, but not the reflexes. They will entice kids to "think with their hands" in addition to their heads.
There. I fixed it for you.
But seriously, while I am disappointed the direction arcades, in general, have gone (all fps/racing/fighting; hardly any variation on themes), I don't think adding motion means that the games are going to be any more mindless. If you go from "A = Punch; B = Kick; C = Dodge" to "Thrust High = Punch; Thrust Low = Kick; Point up = Dodge", the game is just about as mindless, but it is at least more active.
Motion sensing opens up a whole new range of game possibilities. How much they
I'm very concerned about the implications physical interfaces will have on future geeks. If game controllers evolve to the point where the user is running, jumping, swinging their arms, etc... gamers will start to develop physical attributes not conducive to the geek culture. Take for instance the young and unawares teen who plays first person shooters for two hours per day. That amount of physical activity would leave the poor individual thin and buff. A person in that condition would NEVER fit in with a crowd of today's geeks. I say ban these devices before any harm can be done!
I remember the power glove (Score:2)
not being all that useful. I'm sure glad the Wii controller is so much better.
Re:I remember the power glove (Score:4, Funny)
What?
I love the powerglove. It's so... bad.
Parent
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Re:I remember the power glove (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I remember the power glove (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I remember the power glove (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not that people abhor options, but you do have to look pragmatically at both the pros and cons of add-on peripherals in the console marketplace.
From a simple numbers perspective, it means you've split your consumer-base. An add-on peripheral is never going to be as widely supported as original hardware. It also means that developers will be much less likely to *design* an entire game around the functionality of that new add-on, because they also have to think about how to make the game functional and fun for original Wii hardware.
Unless it comes with EVERY Wii, new hardware simply won't be taken advantage of to same degree, and with the substantial improvements of Wii Motion plus, it just seems a shame it wasn't working like that to begin with.
Parent
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Intelligent developers would have a two-mode support - if you've got it, use it, but if you don't, fall back to the old method. It worked for Sony with the original PSX/PS1 controllers and their Dual-shock replacements with analogue sticks + rumble - by the end of the PS1's life, most games had support for analogue sticks, with fall-back to the d-pad (less ideal) for those who still had the original controllers. Helped that the dual-shock was bundled with the console shortly after its introduction too, thou
Re:I remember the power glove (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't an ideal situation, but it's better for Nintendo than letting Natal and the Sony wand completely obsolete the Wii hardware.
Parent
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It's strange. Normally this kind of thing is avoided entirely by console makers in that it's not simply a nominally enhanced experience that isn't integral to the gameplay (see classic rumble packs), but rather it splits the functional requirements of the userbase entirely in two.
It's really going to hinder the studio adoption of the tech, leading to either outright avoidance of it or including optional support in a way that isn't really integral to the game, making it a useless upgrade anyway.
I'd wager rig
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Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (Score:5, Funny)
You know, that happens as people get older. Nothing to be ashamed of. Get some Viagra if it bothers you.
Parent
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Yeah, and while having all three consoles (and many games for all), I play my Wii the most, both for Virtual Console, Gamecube and native Wii games. I love all my systems (ye gods, I sound like a parent with kids), but I play with my Wii the most. I usually spend some time playing with my Wii before I go to bed, as it's more relaxing and helps me fall asleep. My PS3 and 360 get more use when a big game comes out, but I find myself coming back to my Wii after some time passes.
Your anecdote doesn't equal data
Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (Score:5, Insightful)
1. You ignore the PC, phone and handheld segments
2. Whilst the Wii has sold well I'd be surprised (but I guess not too surprised) if it made up 50% of the living room console market when games are taken into account.
Parent
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Re:Motion gaming on consoles already is 50% (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
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I've said it before, I'll say it again: The good Wii games don't use the motion controller unless it's the primary control system. They use the infrared pointer, and cry a tear of joy about having a gamepad and a mouse at the same time.
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Yet most Wii games don't really use motion controls at all... They either ignore it, or convert "Waggle" to a button press.
Punch-Out for the Wii supports both motion and button+pad controls. But to be actually successful at the game, you can't use the motion controls. They're just not responsive enough.
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Don't forget the mobile market.
According to NPD, in April mobile sales were:
1,040,000 DSes and DSis
116,000 PSPs
iPhones/iTouches weren't in that report, but going by the quarterly numbers apple releases, they sold 3,793,000 iPhones in the Quarter ending March 28. And they mentioned earlier that there were 18Million iPhones out of 30Million iPhones/iTouches, so holding that ratio constant, they sold about 6,321,667 iPhones/iTouches over a 3 month period, or 2,107,222 devices per month.
Of course, the iPhone
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On the other hand - Microsoft is coming out with the Natal motion system and I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 had something in the works too (does it??).
It does [youtube.com].
Motion control doesn't work (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure it's great for party games and other casual things, but I can't imagine playing a first person shooter, or, God forbid a fighter. Can you imagine the conversations you'd overhear?
1st man : What's wrong with you?
2nd man : I'm knackered, I was playing Gears of War for an hour last night, I had to rearrange my living room to make adequate room for the cover spots.
1st man : Yeah, chainsawing is a bitch too
2nd man : Hey, where's Billy?
1st man : Didn't you hear? He was playing Street Fighter 4, did a screw pile driver and broke his Coccyx.
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Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine.
Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.
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Very cute, but it's really not that different from a mouse-and-keyboard setup. Which, you know, those rather un-casual Counterstrike types tend to like.
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You can adjust the controls in MP3 to have a smaller center-area, the game plays then a good bit smoother then with the default. However that type of control setup you propose has one 'little' problem, it would make it impossible to hit something. The smaller you make the center-area the harder it is to keep the view steady, if you make it really small, it makes it impossible to keep your aim steady, so you would be constantly rotate around your target instead of actually aiming at it. The only way it works
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Metroid Prime 3 says it can be done just fine for very casual players.
For the 1000th time
-"Casual" is only an insult to immature gamers who take themselves way too seriously. Using it as an insult makes you and the gaming community look ridiculous. Trying to contrast yourself to "casual" gaming also is ridiculous.
-"Casual" and "real/hardcore/super duper/other artificial term you come up with to make yourself sound better" are not mutually exclusive. It is actually possible to play wii fit and then play WoW or whatever games you prefer. The videogame police will really not
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"Casual" is only an insult because you're making it one. All the GP post actually said was that it only works for people who play the game casually. In other words, those who don't take it too seriously or spend a significant amount of time on it.
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A friend of mine once broke a leg and, when I asked him what happened, he replied "I fell off a motorcycle." Since we weren't old enough to ride motorcycles back then, I was very surprised. Seeing this, he continued: "A motorcycle at the arcade." This was in the 90's.
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How about casting spells in Oblivion style games etc. Having heard that Natal is capable of tracking 42 joints (or something) I don't think it's too hard to imagine casting different spells by using alternating hands and hand gestures. Maybe even something elabor
Daw... (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is why i feel Sixaxis is so underrated. Its a great blend of regular controller with some light motion control when appropriate. The only game ive seen abuse the sixaxis is Lair.
Agreed (Score:3, Informative)
The Sixaxis, as utilized in the otherwise middling PS3 Super Smash Brothers clone Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fists of Plastic, does exactly what I'd hoped Nintendo would have done with SSB on the Wii.
The controls are generally as you would expect, but there are some wonderful little motion-based touches: Want to try pulling off a particularly big whack? You jolt the controller in the direction you're punching. Ground-pound area-of-effect attack? Jolt the controller downward as you punch.
Oh, and there's a "meditate"
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Lair's motion controls were awesome. It wasn't an abuse; it worked perfectly. There is just one limitation: You had to not be a fucking moron.
But given that, controls were awesome.
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Which games do use Sixaxis for anything useful? By far most seem to completly ignore it, a tiny few are all motion controls (Rub a Dub, Flower) and another few do make very light use of it (MetalGear4). But overall I haven't seen a single game that uses motion controls for something that couldn't be done with an analag stick just as well. For me SIXAXIS looks like a solution waiting for a problem, but then I haven't seen all PS3 games so I might be missing something.
Re:Daw... (Score:4, Insightful)
Short answer: You're not alone.
Longer answer:
I think an ideal controller is one that makes up for all the things we CAN'T do well in meatspace, allowing us to do them in bitspace.
Not one that favours the jocks, but one that favours the brains.
The wii was destined to be a fad from the start, much like similar approaches in the past in the arcades. Sure, they attracted users due to the novelty, but pretty soon they'd going to discover that hitting a baseball with a make-believe and unresponsive/overresponsive "bat" in front of a computer isn't nearly as fun as doing it with a REAL bat and ball.
And comparing games to games, they're not as fun in the long run as games where your decisions are more important than your physical coordination.
Yes, physical controllers are a fad. A reoccurring fad. They have their place, but won't ever take over, because they will always be a poor facsimile for the real thing, and can't compete with the controllers that are designed to let you do MORE than what's physically possible.
Parent
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Not one that favours the jocks, but one that favours the brains.
The reality is that current motion controller games fall into this category already; you need only apply your brain and your reflexes, which last I checked were not considered to be the exclusive purview of the jocks among us. Unfortunately, video games that don't expect you to move around at all truly do engender fat asses and poor muscle tone. Sure, not all gamers have a fat ass, but if all you do is play games you'll get that way.
Yes, physical controllers are a fad. A reoccurring fad. They have their place, but won't ever take over, because they will always be a poor facsimile for the real thing, and can't compete with the controllers that are designed to let you do MORE than what's physically possible.
You can do more than is physically possible without a controller, too. We'r
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Re:Daw... (Score:4, Insightful)
Does anyone else prefer just a standard controller?
No, I prefer keyboard and mouse.
Parent
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They really need to add some more buttons to the Xbox/PS controllers to be usable to me. Until then, they are nothing but cheap knockoffs for keyboards. A keyboard has what, 100+ keys? Then you add in Shift/Ctrl/Alt modifiers, and that gives you like 5000 combinations. Give me a 5000 button controller, and maybe then I'll think about buying an Xbox, Playstation.
And don't tell me I should conform to how Sony and Microsoft say a gamer should play games. I'll play them the way I want, or ELSE!! That'll s
I don't know about this... (Score:5, Insightful)
I want a kunfu game where I really fight stuff (Score:4, Insightful)
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No use for TBS games (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind rather than the reflexes. I suspect that increased availability of these devices and the technology will make FPS and "arcade" style games even more dominant than they already are. They will entice kids to "think with their hands" instead of their heads. It may be true that the majority are already inclined or predisposed to that, but it doesn't help shift the Bell Curve when Big Business panders to the median for the sake of profit rather than trying to help shift the median to the right a little.
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So you would prefer a WiiEEGmote? An interesting idea, especially for games with force feedback control.
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How would this "WiiEEGmote" work? If it lets me move the mouse and select/click items with a focused thought, that's a LOT more generalized than just a gaming device, no? Hasn't mouse tracking that follows the gaze of the human eye already been demonstrated, too? (Of course that's an error-prone and wasteful method, since you might look at something that you don't need to select or manipulate.) What else would this WiiEEGmote do?
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Oh, you said that just for the opportunity to use that emoticon!
No harm to TBS games (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see a very practical use for all this motion control in turn-based strategy games - you know, the sort of games that work the mind, but not the reflexes. They will entice kids to "think with their hands" in addition to their heads.
There. I fixed it for you.
But seriously, while I am disappointed the direction arcades, in general, have gone (all fps/racing/fighting; hardly any variation on themes), I don't think adding motion means that the games are going to be any more mindless. If you go from "A = Punch; B = Kick; C = Dodge" to "Thrust High = Punch; Thrust Low = Kick; Point up = Dodge", the game is just about as mindless, but it is at least more active.
Motion sensing opens up a whole new range of game possibilities. How much they
cause for great concern (Score:3, Funny)
I'm very concerned about the implications physical interfaces will have on future geeks. If game controllers evolve to the point where the user is running, jumping, swinging their arms, etc... gamers will start to develop physical attributes not conducive to the geek culture. Take for instance the young and unawares teen who plays first person shooters for two hours per day. That amount of physical activity would leave the poor individual thin and buff. A person in that condition would NEVER fit in with a crowd of today's geeks. I say ban these devices before any harm can be done!
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O RLY?