A piece at GameSetWatch questions whether modern game companies are
taking accessibility a step too far in their rush to attract people who don't typically play video games. This worry was inspired, in part, by the news that Nintendo's
New Super Mario Bros. Wii would
have the capability to play itself in order to let a human player get past a tricky part. Quoting:
"Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal, and Nintendo has shown that accessibility is the servant of engagement. History has rarely — if ever — dared to disprove the wisdom of Miyamoto's foresight. History has also never disproven, however, the principle that any medium and any message degrades the wider an audience it must reach. Art was never served by generalization, nor language by addressing all denominators. Entertainment for the masses ultimately becomes empty. There must exist an absolute point beyond which greater accessibility means less engagement. Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point."
Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
"Bigger audiences finishing more games is certainly a worthy goal"
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I think it makes sense from a business point of view rather than from a gaming point of view. From a business point of view, does it make sense to invest money and resources in making a really great, memorable ending to an epic game, when most casual players will move on to something else before they get there? Or does it make more sense to make shorter games that can be finished in a dozen hours or so and take the time saved to make another sequel?
As a gamer who enjoys epic games, it makes me sad. But it's
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Say what now? (Score:2)
Is it just me, or did that quote manage to use a hundred words without actually saying anything?
It made a very clear point (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Say what now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nintendo did something new. I can't praise it without being labeled a 14m3r fanboi, and I can't criticize it because it'll probably turn out make them even more pots of money and then I'll look like a doofus. So I'll just talk around the issue to fill the space between these important messages from our sponsors.
Parent
This is new? (Score:4, Interesting)
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No, that's DDR playing a remix of ABBA's Dancing Queen!
(DDR seems to have gotten the difficulty scale right!)
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I can see one significant difference. If you use a (heheh) "secret" cheat to get through a section, you didn't didn't learn how to play through it yourself.
If you watch the game play itself through that section, you can at least go back and attempt it yourself now that you know how.
In that respect, it's much like the walkthrough videos that YouTube is replete with. You know, an actual "trainer", rather than a God mode.
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I would argue that having the game play through the really difficult parts allows the developer to add parts that would otherwise b
Finally! (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of game companies don't seem to understand this, but a lot of gamers are adults with other interests and responsibilities. Spending hours "practicing" so that I can master a video game is not in the cards.
It's to prove you didn't rent the game (Score:3, Funny)
There's nothing more frustrating (in the gaming world) than playing a game for hours just to unlock a part of the game I already paid for!
It's to prove you paid for it, either full price new or half price used, not 1/10 of the price rental.
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umm, excuse me, but who are proving this to?
To the game. It is programmed to deny you the full enjoyment unless you buy your own copy.
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Which brings up a related design flaw which would have made this unworkable with GTA 3. If I really enjoy a mission I should be able to replay it over and over again without using an old save game. Going back to the early missions w
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Need for Speed Prostreet already allows you to do just that. You can play through the entire game to unlock all the cars, or you can pay an extra fee to unlock all the cars at the start.
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Likewise though, there aren't many things as frustrating as paying a fair amount for a game only to get a few hours of entertainment for it. There's a balance to be struck, and a delicate one at that. If a game is too hard or too easy you'll feel you didn't get value for money.
I think the 'auto-complete' idea is a good one, but it needs to come with a penalty. Spending a "life" to progress, or some points, or simply being branded a "cheat" on the end screen would be enough to make you try to play through ag
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I think TFA cuts to the heart of my problem with Nintendo- their grab for marketshare seems to be at the expense of what makes videogames special. They are making the system and software more and more commodified. The game is a pacifier, rather than engager. And that's the point of games, to engage the player. I would never sit through a ten hour movie, but I've sat in front of Fallout 3 for nights on end, and blinked by dry eyes realizing I had been wandering the wastelands for hours on end.
The ironic
Good Idea (Score:4, Insightful)
It's just ONE GAME...don't sound the alarms yet... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want a challenge then pick up Starcraft II (when it comes out) or Virua Fighter 5. Learning to be competitive in either of those games will require hundreds of hours of practicing the games, reading about games, watching tournaments and taking notes, or learning maps or matches. Of course the video game 'journalists' are not willing to learn how to get good at RTS or FGs so they instead complain about a game of low difficulty (like Mario Brothers) being made easier. If you want to play games to be challenged try getting good at Starcraft or Virtua Fighter.
This new Mario Brothers with its auto-level completion (tm) or whatever is not a hardcore game and it's not even a hardcore genre. If you want more difficult platforming try Ratchet & Clank, God of War, or perhaps even Nintendo's own Mario Galaxy. But don't say it's the end of the world for hard games. I doubt those 'journalists' who complain about games not being hard enough for them haven't touched competitive Starcraft or Virtua Fighter or Counter Strike.
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God of war for difficult platforming??!
Mario Galaxy, the easiest 3D Mario game by a longshot?
Did you really play those games?
You seem to like to use words like hardcore game and hardcore genre, but that's all a bunch of bologna. There's no such thing as a hardcore genre. The concept of hardcore game is meaningless, and only a way for stupid teens to claim that other games don't have enough childish violence to appeal to them.
All very conventional, it seems (Score:2, Interesting)
Conway's "Life" [dmoz.org] plays itself, player pianos play themselves, soccer matches on the TV play themselves (as far as we're concerned) — what's new here?
Win button (Score:2)
I can't for the life of me find the image right now, but there's a classic photoshop of a Gamecube controller with all the buttons on the right side replaced with a giant, green WIN button. This reminds me of that.
Not everyone wants to beat their head on the wall (Score:2)
Yes, there is something to be said for overcoming a challenge, but not everyone buys games to be challenged. Some people buy them to merely have fun with friends and/or family!
In my opinion there is more than enough room for both camps.
Everyone's Special (Score:3, Interesting)
We have an entire generation of employees entering the workforce that can't think for themselves. A step like this in the video game world is not that surprising.
It USED to be that you had to think to solve puzzles, complex puzzles, to continue a story - not just finish the game. This has been diluted over the years to give the end-user more flashy graphics without really challenging them.
Now imagine if a developer could create mind-bending puzzles that would cause even the most experienced gamer problems - but not alienate the "I'm special" crowd. It COULD be a great step in the evolution of gaming.
However, it probably will just be to assist those people that can't even handle the mediocre challenges that we currently see.
Well done for missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
"Making a game so easy it can play itself for you at the push of a button just might be that point."
No no and no. If anything, this is the [b]reverse[/b] - it means more difficult sections can be added to the game, without endangering less experienced players (by showing them "how it's done" and letting them skip the harder bits completely if they want to).
This means each demographic gets what it wants - hardcores get a game with some nice tricky sections, and casual gamers get a fun game where they skim over the bits they find too difficult/tedious.
The quoted article is just alarmist turd, and skims over the fact this is, effectively, difficulty levels on crack. There's absolutely no difference between this and selecting Easy/Medium/Hard - this is just a clever hybrid.
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Crud, for some reason I used a mish-mash of BB code bold and HTML. Please excuse my stupidity.
Just about the most pretentious quote ever (Score:4, Funny)
A statement that somehow the message of art 'degrades' as it reaches more people is something I assumed to hear from some art snob complaining about reproductions of the Mona Lisa, not about a video game starring Mario. The whole notion is insanely elitist, and I'm frankly flabbergasted that someone saw fit to print it.
Especially considering that they got the whole idea wrong - it's only a demo mode that shows you how to beat a section. In order to progress through the game, you still have to play it yourself!
God Mode (Score:3, Informative)
This is no different than old-school games (ie, the ones I played growing up) like Wolfenstein or Doom, each of which had a "God mode" which everybody knew. Those codes would give you invulnerability and/or unlimited ammo.
Sometimes it was fun just to use them and just go berserk, but one of the main uses of them was to get through portions of the game that you simply couldn't beat. I used them occasionally when I was just unable to beat some monster. As such, those codes (which have been used in many games by many gamers) are no different than the current feature in Mario, except that it's more interactive.
I've favored games that automatically level the difficulty level so the user still does all the action rather than watching it. That's easier with combat style games than it is for platform-style games. Maybe they need ways of making the *physics* more forgiving as well - say make Mario jump farther/higher, have something rescue you if you fall, etc.
It is the new easy mode. (Score:3, Insightful)
It is how I look at most games. I like a challenge, but I do not want to have to allocate project management, tons of research, and bringing my A game every time I play it. This is just a new easy mode, same as a cheat for God mode, or turning down difficulty a ton like a combat slider in Oblivion.
I want to be involved in the game story, get some enjoyment out of it, and not miss some part of the game because a different minority wants me to suffer through a game to get the best items or game play experience just because they had to.
I give Progress Quest as an example of the game will play itself, you will watch it, and you will be amused as an example of this. http://www.progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com] It has a following, so maybe there is some truth in the matter.
Been There, Done That? (Score:4, Insightful)
How is this different from the difficulty slider in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion? If I get to a part that is particularly pissing me off, I drop the slider all the way down to easy and kill those pesky Dremoras with one swipe of my Sword of the Divine Crusader.
There are those of us that do not want to be overly frustrated with video games; we simply want to have fun. While I enjoy a bit of a challenge, it's nice to know that if I fail at something 5, 10, or 25 times, I can just click a button and make it easier (or skip it).
For the children? (Score:2)
How are they supposed to learn to overcome the frustrations of life if their games offer no frustration?
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We know who to blame: CLIPPYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!
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Of course Super Mario Bros. got the difficulty level about right. Anyone could pick it up and play it, get pretty far, and beat it with a little practice. I think SMB is a good example of a very accessible game. If it gets much easier what's the point in playing? Other games, say, Ninja Gaiden required a lot more dedication to beat. But that's good for the right kind of game player. We need more games like Ninja Gaiden. Still other games, like say, Ghosts 'n Goblins were, in my opinion, unreasonably di
Re:What? no challenge? (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. But as an adult life has enough challenges already. Games are the only thing where I even have the option of saying "this is too hard, let's skip it."
Parent
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Well, most DVD players also have a "Fast Forward" button so you can skip all the dialogue thingie and just get to the next action scene, so games certainly aren't alone in that respect. I'd still consider that to be intelectually lazy, however.
Re:What? no challenge? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:What? no challenge? (Score:4, Insightful)
Second, there's a time for thinking and a time for not thinking. It wasn't until my third child that I realized why America's Funniest Videos is on at 8:00 on Friday. It has no plot to remember, no characters to keep track of, no storyline that lasts more than 30 seconds, and it mostly consists of sledding accidents and people getting hit in the crotch. There has never been a show that demands less from its audience. (So as to retain some shred of credibility, I don't watch AFV (my kids do). But I've seen enough of it to appreciate its utter simplicity.)
Third, in this particular case we're not always talking about skipping something because it's boring or because you want to get to the good bit. If I need to spend hours "practicing" a game to get past a difficult mission then it's the game that's flawed. Demanding that I pay $50 for the right to play a game is one thing. Demanding that I spend 50 hours of toy guitar practice before I can play all the songs on the disk, or demanding that I play 50 boring quest or racing missions before I can unlock Las Venturas and play virtual video poker is...poor customer service? Poor game design?
The fundamental argument is the right of the artist to control how you experience his art vs the right of the consumer to experience the art on his terms. By your logic, it would be lazy to skip songs on a CD to get to the song you actually want to hear. Certain artists may agree because they carefully wrote and sequenced the songs to achieve a certain effect. But ultimately I believe that I should be the one to make the decision.
Parent
Re:What? no challenge? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want a challenge, don't use it.
Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further. I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.
Parent
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Exactly! Personally I'd never use it, but it doesn't bother me that it's there. Why would it? No one is forcing me or anyone else to use it at all. They're probably smart enough to include a "number of seconds played automatically" meter so people who truly beat the game can brag to their friends with evidence ;)
Re:What? no challenge? (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it. Never did beat it. I spent several hours going through the same routine of reloading the game, skipping the cutscene, finding the boss, skipping the next cutscene, starting the battle (this process of just getting to the start of the fight took something like 7 minutes IIRC), fighting for a few minutes, getting my ass wiped all over the floor, lather, rinse, repeat. I eventually just gave up. It's a shame too, cos I really liked the game. But putting one part in there that I couldn't get passed ruined the experience for me. Honestly, I think the best approach is the one where after 3 or 5 failed attempts, the game gives you an option to scale back the difficulty for that fight.
Parent
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Personally, while I enjoy a challenge, I don't enjoy playing the same level for hours on end, and never getting any further. I'll be using the "I'm bored, please let me play the next bit" button sometimes.
Exactly. There was one of the Metroid Prime games where I got to one of the bosses and I had a bitch of a time fighting it. Never did beat it. I spent several hours going through the same routine ... my ass wiped all over the floor, lather, rinse, repeat. I eventually just gave up. It's a shame too, cos I really liked the game. But putting one part in there that I couldn't get passed ruined the experience for me.
Exactly2!!
I gave up Metroid Prime 3 after attempting the same stupid boss like 50 times. No doubt it was my fault -- I just suck too much, and I'm not very good with the Wii controller -- but I play games for fun, not to brag how hard-core I am. I know it feels great to finally get past a hard bit after having honed your skills through endless attempts, but sometimes enough is enough.
Of course there are alternative approaches:
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I've actually got to the point where I don't really want to buy new games because I hardly get to finish them
Admittedly I'm obviously a bit retarded when it comes to gaming abilities, but not being able to finish games has curbed my enthusiasm, and definite potential future purchases. So I am also glad that they are doing something about this.
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You can blame Penny Arcade [penny-arcade.com] for giving them ideas. Except their version was more interactive...
So what are they? "Challenge" or "art"? (Score:2)
Are paintings, sculptures, music, photography, cinema (and so on...) challenging? For the one who receives them. Or perhaps it's more about what was in the mind of the creator and how do you receive this particular cultural artifact? (which might include challenge)
Well...you decide that.
So - decide, let others decide, don't yell "consoles are dumbing our games!" (I can see that bs already in this thread...), you still have and will have a choice. Sure, more "mainstream" games will appear to hijack the whole
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Citation needed [google.co.uk].
Are you using a sample size of 1, perchance?
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I don't think the facts bear you out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/jun/09/games-dvd-music-downloads-piracy [guardian.co.uk]
Notice the bar for games sales and how it rises almost every year since 1999.