Gaming On Windows 7 554
Jason Wilson writes "Windows 7 comes out Oct. 22, and many gamers are wondering whether it will be a boon for gaming, as Microsoft promised Vista would, or a disappointment (like Vista was at its launch). Former ExtremeTech editor Jason Cross, who's covered games and tech for 13 years, discusses the pluses and minuses of Windows 7 for gamers — how it differs from Vista, if it'll run older games, and the benefits of 64-bit computing. 'Windows 7 basically takes the Vista codebase and rewrites, refines, optimizes, and overhauls most of the internal stuff without making dramatic changes to the driver stacks that Vista did over WinXP. The changes to the fundamental driver models are small and mostly serve to improve performance. Plus, the hardware makers — especially the graphics guys — are on top of the changes this time around. Nvidia and ATI have been shipping quite good Win7 graphics drivers for months now.'"
Everything works for me (Score:4, Informative)
I have Windows 7 RC installed, and I was very surprised to see every game I had installed, still worked flawlessly.
Even Starcraft, which is very aged game, worked just fine.
At the same time, I have only found 1 application that didn't work, and I couldn't get to work even with XP compat, admin rights or any other tweak.
So that's quite good imo.
Works like a charm... and is available earlier... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Everything works for me (Score:4, Informative)
So far, I've really had nothing to complain about, the new UI aside. I was pretty pissed that there was no classic theme.
I'm still pissed about Vista not having the XP style. That one was much nicer.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
If you have a single core box with less than 2gb, XP is probably as fast or faster.
If you have multiple cores, plentty of RAM (its CHEAP now, so if not why not), 7 will be quicker. Especially if you have a half recent 3d card, in which case much of the GUI is offloaded to it and its video memory...
Moving forward, the benefits of 7 over XP (or vista) will only become more apparent.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Does it matter, its all DirectX (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Everything works for me (Score:2, Informative)
Unfortunately all of this is practically pointless. I cannot remember when I last had a bluescreen in XP or any reason to wish for a better sound implementation.
As for the new high-end tech: ... some time in the future. However generally speaking, games won't use that. Just look at how many games actually use DX10 today. At best there are a few that have a seperate DX10 mode, that's it.
There might be one or two games that will actually use DX11 or lots of memory
Game developers cannot afford to target such a small market segment; and Win7 + 64bit + >=4GB RAM + DX11 high-end graphics card will be a relatively small segment. Not to mention that almost all games are either developed for older hardware (indie, casual, etc.) to maximise market reach or for consoles with year old hardware, where the PC port is just a by-product.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:1, Informative)
despite the fact that GNU/Linux is superior in every possible way,
Ever tried setting up two screens on Linux? It's a major PITA, and you get to choose between Xinerama and 3D acceleration (of course there's no hint about this tiny little fact until you check the X logs).
On Vista it takes at most 10 mouse clicks and 30 seconds, and everything works perfectly.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:5, Informative)
In the special case where you:
- have an Nvidia card
- don't mind using Nvidia's closed-source drivers
Then setting up dual, hardware-accelerated screens on Linux is also trivially easy -- just run nvidia-settings.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Everything works for me (Score:4, Informative)
Oh bullcrap. just use xrandr.
Plug in extra screen, run xrandr to list displays and modes. Then run it again to switch on the new monitor at a chosen resolution and relative position.
If you've got nvidia then the nvidia-settings applet will do the same (and don't tell me that's "hard", you do the same in windows for nVidia and ATI)
I'm sure there are windowed versions, but this works perfectly for me.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:5, Informative)
the sound implementation in Windows Vista and Windows 7 have one thing going for them over XP and older: You can now set and mix volumes at an application level. That gives you the option to quiet down or even silence a particularly annoying program altogether so irrelevant notification beeps won't interfere with a game you're playing or movie that you're watching. It can be surpisingly useful at times.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:2, Informative)
Sure, then you end up with two monitors that can't really work together and are not customizable.
The issues you're referring to are all driver related. The fact that both nvidia and ATI have already been releasing win7 drivers for months while still screwing around on Linux should make it all clear; It's about the drivers and the hardware guys just don't care about Linux enough yet. That's not the fault of the OS; it's the hardware a$$es not opening up their drivers.
As for Linux vs Windows for multimonitor: Until about a year ago this was definately a problem on Linux as the drivers did not support it well enough. It works quite well actially. Also, setting up multi monitor does not cover "use a machine with 2 monitors". The actual usage, once it has been set up, is the most important part (which you're ignoring). Windows is not prepared for a multidesktop/multiscreen setup. It never has been. Linux on the other hand is quite different. Nearly all desktop managers support multi monitors properly. Ever tried multi monitor setup and opening up new windows? Windows pop up in the middle of the two screens sometimes, which is bloody irritating. The fixed task bar can not properly be split up between the two monitors and one who would want only programs on that perticular monitor to be in the taskbar on the monitor are completely screwed.
Re:DX9 vs DX10 / 11 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Everything works for me (Score:5, Informative)
Compiz also is pretty well aware of the screens, so you can do scale ("exposé") to only one of the monitors if you wish.
Re:Does it matter, its all DirectX (Score:2, Informative)
Even OpenGL (which has vastly better forward and backwards compatibility than DirectX) suffers from this to some extent. For example, the ancient indexed colour mode is not supported on some newer implementations - although only many it can still be used but it is just slow (implemented in software). In general, OpenGL programming models have better longevity and stability than DirectX (and possibly the best of any widely used API). The downside to this increased stability/good compatibility between versions is that features are adopted at a slower pace than for DirectX (although OpenGL extensions are developed at a rapid rate).
IMHO, if you need graphics you should use OpenGL instead of DirectX these days (JoGL under Java is an easy way to use OpenGL). They have approximate feature parity and similar programming models (the types of shaders), but OpenGL has the advantage of working on Windows AND everything else (all those iPhones and Playstations and Macs and Linux and Solaris boxen).
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
In the case of some Intel GPUs (like the three and a half year old 945GM, which is found in most netbooks today), 3D is limited to a 2048x2048 total framebuffer shared between all monitors - so if your two displays won't fit in a 2048x2048 space, you can't use any 3D acceleration. So if you want to use, say, 1280x800 and 1280x1024, you can't have 3D (or a composited desktop) in Linux. This is apparently a hardware limitation.
The Windows Vista/7 Aero driver has no such limitation, and I don't think the OS X driver does either.
Gaming is Amazing on Windows 7 (here's a list) (Score:5, Informative)
I'm an avid gamer... and my tastes are all over the place. The only issue I've had in ANY game in the following list was with World of Warcraft, and only during the loading of your character after the character selection screen. If in windowed mode, you go do something else then come back... it will crash wow. Otherwise, once it loads completely it's fine. (10-15second window).
World of Warcraft
Starcraft
Left 4 Dead
Half Life 2 (And all the mods: Zombie Panic, Team Fortress 2, Action Halflife 2... etc)
Quake 3
Doom 3
OpenArena
NeverWinter Nights (all expansions)
NeverWinter Nights 2
UT2003
UT3
Crysis
Battlefield 2
etc etc etc
Not a single error. Not a single problem with Windows 7. The only thing I can wonder about is the resources needed. I run a beef machine... GTX 275, quad core proc, 4gb ram... while not an elite gaming rig... it's pretty nice. I experience no lag, no latency... in any game, at least not due to what I would deem as a Windows 7 issue. The effects are not noticeable.
XP, while great, loads in less time, but seemed to crash more frequently with newer games. Most of the NVIDIA drivers I've used have been great.
The only complain I have about Windows 7 is how it buggers out my network when I do a fresh boot or a restart. I have to disable the network card and reenable it (5 second process) and everything is fine. Repeated motherboard driver updates and network card updates have had no change. Oddly enough... on a fresh install of Windows 7 Beta... it doesn't do this. Only after about a month. Could be hardware on my side but /shrug.
Re:Performance increase... (Score:4, Informative)
Knowledgeable users manage this problem. They still suffer from it ; even the "sensible" software we install likes to add resident tasks. And virtually nothing can clean your registry out without risking terminal damage to your OS (unless you really know what you are doing, and I used to be one of these people - but I let the knowledge atrophy because it's more trouble than it's worth).
One of the best utilities for this is Autoruns [microsoft.com].
It certainly prolongs the MTBRBICWC for Windows (Mean Time Between Reinstalls Because It's Clogged With Crap).
Linux definitely scores points here for storing application-settings in their own hidden folder in your home directory. Uninstall the app? Delete the folder. Or not, if you don't mind - it's not slowing anything else down, they all look in their own folders, not in one giant nasty binary blob database.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:1, Informative)
Last time I checked you only lose 3d acceleration if you want to use multiple unrelated cards to drive multiple monitors (something Windows doesn't even support AFAIK).
Windows has supported that for a long time. It's how we used to do multi-monitor before dual-head cards became common. It would also use the acceleration characteristics on both cards so if you had a fast card and a dog slow one, you could clearly see the difference when dragging a window from one to the other. Used both card's video overlays too. Very useful. A 3D accelerated desktop on the other hand wasn't around then and I haven't tried with modern cards.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:4, Informative)
Not sure what you were doing wrong, but I have found the Nvidia linux driver to be brilliant. You need to run nvidia settings with root priv's so it can output the xorg.conf file, but this is to be expected. Even without root privileges you can change most stuff in the current session to get dual screens working, it will just forget it all next time it run.
My setup is to have one screen running at 1200*800 on my laptops native lcd, then have a TV output using a VGA to TV converter running at 1024*768 as this is the highest resolution it supports. I do have to choose which part of the screen I want to view but that is to be expected as it cannot scale two different shaped rectangles to be the same shape without distorting one, and that would annoy me.
This might be different if I was interesting in dual heading them or something but since I want them running in clone mode where both have the same image on them I knew things would be a little clunky.
Round pegs rarely fit into square holes without a little bit of persuasion :)
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
My multi-monitor history:
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
It's already in there and running. I can see the secure sound and video process running in Task Manager and get the degradation effects on non-compliant monitors.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:2, Informative)
you can't have 3D (or a composited desktop) in Linux. This is apparently a hardware limitation.
The Windows Vista/7 Aero driver has no such limitation, and I don't think the OS X driver does either.
Are you aware that those two sentences contradict each other?
Re:Performance increase... (Score:1, Informative)
"Anyways, What I found in 7 was that gaming performance in about 70-80% of my games had improved, even on very early drivers."
Windows Vista drivers for the most part work in 7 - so you aren't using "early" drivers but rather drivers that have been out and improved upon for almost 3 years.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Everything works for me (Score:5, Informative)
There is a classic theme, what are you talking about? Desktop Personalization > Basic and High Contrast Themes > Windows Classic.
Re:PC gaming is dead. (Score:3, Informative)
I can give you some real data to back that up:
According to Bitkom (the German organization for IT, telecoms and new media) [bitkom.org], 73 percent of online games are played trough the browser (e.g. Flash games). And the most used gaming device by far, is the PC.
So that whole "PC gaming is dead" thing, is just a "monkey see, monkey do" parroting problem. A tiny group of uninformed but loud people said it first, and a ton of parrots repeat it over and over. Hmm... it does remind me of the 40s. :P
Re:DX9 vs DX10 / 11 (Score:3, Informative)
So yeah, if a game's DX10 engine is sucking more CPU power than DX9 for equal visual quality, then the game's developers are doing something wrong.
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
Why the hell is that modded as "Troll"?!
Anything said about Windows that doesn't involve trashing it is oftentimes met with staunch resistance on the Slashdot forums.
Like people mod the article as astroturfing because it's a positive review of Windows 7... the Slashdot forums have moderate to heavy astroturfing in favor of Linux.
People who post here are usually very technologically inclined and love the openness, freedom and power of Linux, and I agree with them Linux is pretty awesome. But I differ from a lot of them in believing that Windows is actually not evil and works pretty damn well (even Vista now).
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
What the hell are you running? A P3 with 128 MB of RAM and integrated video? I've found that on even a P4 2 GHz with 2 GB of RAM and integrated intel video (a low end machine by todays standards), the menus were far faster with the default settings under Vista than they were under XP. Sure, you can turn off all that fading crap in XP and make it faster, but I didn't have to do any of that with Vista to get really responsive menus. And if you've got a decent 3D accelerator (even a cheap $30 one), the system is even faster and you get the 3D flipping (which is pretty nice once you use it).
Re:Everything works for me (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Everything works for me - But..... (Score:5, Informative)
Windows 2000 (aka Windows Classic) style is present in both Vista and Win7.