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Comments: 167 +- Games: Classifying Players For Unique Game Experiences on Wednesday August 12, @07:57AM
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togelius writes "Whenever you play a game of Tomb Raider: Underworld, heaps of data about your playing style is collected at Eidos' servers. Researchers at the Center for Computer Games Research have now mined this data to identify the different types of player behavior (PDF). Using self-organizing neural networks, they classified players as either Veterans, Solvers, Pacifists or Runners. It turns out people play the game for very different reasons and focus on different parts of the game, but almost everyone falls into one of these categories. These neural networks can now quickly determine which of these groups you belong to based on just seeing you play. In the near future, such networks will be used to adapt games like Tomb Raider while they are played (e.g. by removing or adding puzzles and enemies), so you get the game you want."
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Foruc on different parts of game (Score:4, Funny)
It turns out people play the game for very different reasons and focus on different parts of the game, but almost everyone falls into one of these categories.
Yep, I've noticed this too. I dont get why, but some people tend to stare the ass more, while personally I like to enjoy the boobs.
Did this research notice if there were any deaths caused by getting discracted when you jumped and the camera got into such position that you tried to get a nippleslip or see the panties?
Re:Foruc on different parts of game (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Did this research notice if there were any deaths caused by getting discracted when you jumped and the camera got into such position that you tried to get a nippleslip or see the panties?
Just what we need... surround ourselves with ourselves. That will challenge us and cause us to grow into intelligent, tolerant and well rounded individuals.
/. just keep getting weirder and weirder.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Foruc on different parts of game (Score:5, Funny)
I don't like hearing this kind of talk, so I'm going to mod it down.
Parent
No thank you (Score:5, Funny)
After seeing how Tivo and Netflix recommendations go sometimes, I'm not sure I want a game changing itself because it thinks I know what I want. Not to knock Tivo or Netflix, they are accurate alot, but sometimes they are way off base.
Besides, if it knew what I really wanted, everything would just end up having tits.
Thanks for the heads up (Score:5, Insightful)
Whenever you play a game of Tomb Raider: Underworld, heaps of data about your playing style is collected at Eidos' servers.
Thanks for the heads up, so I won't buy it. I personally don't like having everything I do monitored in some way on some server with a shady privacy policy.
Re:Thanks for the heads up (Score:5, Insightful)
Then don't buy the Xbox version. If you RTFA, it mentions that the data collection was done through Xbox Live.
Of course with its achievements etc. Xbox Live is always tracking everyone in the first place, Eidos' data collection is a logical next step. If you're paranoid, avoid Xbox Live, PSN, and any similar system (including Steam on PC unless firewalled).
Or of course just pull the network plug of the PC or console...
Parent
Great Data for the Single-Player Household (Score:5, Funny)
...but how does it track when my 8-year-old daughter loads the disk and plays "Lara Croft: Monkey Chaser" ? I'm guessing they need a way to throw out that data, or else risk creating the new, bogus, player category of "Spastic Insomniac."
Parent
Re:Thanks for the heads up (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you're planning to write your social security number with bullet holes in the wall, I think you might be overreacting.
Using my play data to serve ads? No, thanks, I'll pass. Using my play data to realize I hate having to kill things in Tomb Raider? Sounds like a win to me.
Parent
Re:Thanks for the heads up (Score:5, Funny)
Totally. This is yet another attempt by the government to monitor its drones and keep them in line, another little teeter down the slippery slope to an Orwellian future.
But by analyzing how you react to this, they'll be able to offer you the customised Orwellian future that you really want.
Parent
Re:Thanks for the heads up (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you guys have the wrong dystopia here: This isn't an Orwellian future that this sort of thing leads to, it's more of a Brave New World with perfectly customized soma for you.
Parent
To be fair, (Score:5, Insightful)
most people who use 1984 as a knee-jerk reaction to anything they deem questionable haven't even read that book either.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I think they are, though I'm sure that they're a little overwhelmed by the amount of data involved.
In the most recent patch 3.2 they removed "twinks" from regular battlegrounds and added XP. The vast majority of us cheered.
Does it take nudity into account? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Solvers: Solved her tight clothing getting in the way.
Re:Does it take nudity into account? (Score:4, Funny)
How about the naked Lara Croft modders? Which slot do they fall into?
Tricky question, don't you think? /. is a family-friendly website and nobody should answer that question.
(Insert 'you must be new here' joke now)
Parent
Bartle did this work already (Score:5, Insightful)
...15 years ago. They change the names and claim it as unique research?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Bartle did this work already (Score:4, Informative)
Here [mud.co.uk]. But you could have found that yourself on Wikipedia...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
...15 years ago. They change the names and claim it as unique research?
No. Bartle's taxonomy is only really relevant for MMORPGs and MUDs. This one is mostly for first person shooters and similar games.
Missing player type - metagamers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I think Metas would fall in the Pacifist branch.
Almost everyone? (Score:2, Insightful)
Using self-organizing neural networks, they classified players as either Veterans, Solvers, Pacifists or Runners ... but almost everyone falls into one of these categories
I didn't RTFA but wouldn't everyone fall into one of the categories? I mean, it sounds like the system does just that: puts the player in one of the categories.
Re:Almost everyone? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Almost everyone? (Score:5, Informative)
The system discovers the categories. The analysis finds groupings of players who behave in similar ways through the game, and the researchers named those after-the-fact. There's no a priori reason why the players should group at all, though - the study could've equally found that only a small percentage of players clustered and the majority were radically different from each other.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe it's someone who just like to run straight into a crowd of enemies and immediately die repeatedly for hours on end.
Runner
Or someone who logs in and just sits there not moving for hours. Or any number of other things that probably wouldn't even be classified as "play"
Pacifist or Solver
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe it's someone who just like to run straight into a crowd of enemies and immediately die repeatedly for hours on end.
Runner
Or someone who logs in and just sits there not moving for hours. Or any number of other things that probably wouldn't even be classified as "play"
Pacifist or Solver
See, that's you doing it backwards -- once the categories have been defined by the neural networks (and labeled after the fact by humans), you are now trying to take any given data point and fit it into one of the categories. That's not how it works. Imagine looking at a 2D image containing many dots; if you were asked to draw perimeters around any significant clusters, you could probably do so without difficulty -- but depending on the 2D image you are given, it is entirely possible (even probable) that
Re:Almost everyone? (Score:4, Interesting)
But, once you've run your data through and decided that 4 categories are sufficient, most designers (including myself) will restrict the NN to those categories. And somebody with really weird behavior will get lumped in and will slightly skew the existing category. The guy who runs into a crowd and dies over and over again may be described as a Runner, but he'll be an outlier in the runner class and his behavior will tweak the definition of a Runner.
Your options are to ignore outliers like him to avoid polluting your class, add a new class for people with that kind of behavior if there are enough of them to justify it, or (most likely) just accept that outliers skew tight groups and lump him in as a Runner - If the group is tight enough and he's rare enough, it won't matter.
Ideally, however, your architecture will be flexible enough that you can weigh how good a fit each player is to each group and adjust accordingly. I.e. adjust every obstacle according to a best-fit weighting rather than just delivering 4 different options on each level. Not having played the game or reading TFA, I can't speculate on that front.
Parent
So no variety? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would be somewhat annoyed if Eidos based the style of the final level of the next Hitman game on stats from the rest of the game, which seems to be a real possibility since Hitman is a game which offers plenty of chances to choose between stealth and action gameplay.
So the game is spyware? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't like the idea of BUYING something and then having my use of it monitored. That's no different than spyware.
Re:So the game is spyware? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sweet Zombie Jesus, the tin foil hat brigade are out in force today. The game is already awarding you Achievements [wikipedia.org] as you play. You don't like being "spied" on to earn Achievements? Then why are you playing on XBox Live?
Oh, you didn't realize that this only applies to the XBox Live version? You didn't even read the article, you say? I've just earned the "Shocked and Stunned" Achievement.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Ahhh! They're after you!
Spyware watches you to target advertising at you, and to help companies figure out how to optimize their costs and profits. This game is watching you so they can make games more appealing to more players. A game that designed to appeal to one play style will likely annoy the other types. Your Solver will complain about the lack of puzzles or over dependence on violence. If you can make a game cater to multiple styles, more people will speak well of it and more people will want th
Re:So the game is spyware? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
The four types (Score:5, Informative)
In case anyone else was trying to figure out these roles... (page 6 last two paragraphs - > page 7)
Veterans = The power gamers, deaths usually only environmental.
Solvers = Die often (mainly from falling), methodical, slow.
Pacifists = Cannon fodder basically.
Runners = They run, they die, they run. The first thing that comes to mind here is a player that goes for the flag immediately in CTF.
Re:The four types (Score:4, Informative)
8.6% of players were Veterans, "players that die very few times; their death is caused mainly by the environment and they complete TRU very fast."
22.12% of players were Solvers. "Their long completion times, low number of deaths by enemies or environment effects indicate a slow-moving, careful style of play with the number one cause of death being falling (jumping).
46.18% of players were Pacifists: "The total number of their deaths varies a lot but their completion times are below average and their help requests are minimal indicating a certain amount of skill at playing the game.
16.56% of players were Runners, "players that die quite often and mainly by opponents and the environment. These players are very fast in completing the game (similar to the Veterans), while having a varying number of help requests which cover the majority of the H value range."
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So, Veterans and Runners complete the game very quickly, while Pacifists complete the game faster than average. Seems those 22.12% which are Solvers are really bringing down the speed curve a lot here.
Re: (Score:2)
You're a Solver, and statistically you do die a lot from falling. Everyone does. You're probably not noticing it, because the rate in the article was ridiculously high. 70% or so, IIRC, so it would likely seem normal.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I personally think jumping puzzles exist because it represents a fear that doesn't need 'selling'. No one wants to fall down a hole, whereas that monster may or may not be 'realistic enough'.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm the same... I don't know if we'd be classed as Solvers or Pacifists. I think in terms of Tomb Raider, we'd be pacifist, doing everything but solving the game.
Play style is not a constant (Score:3, Insightful)
The way you play games can change over time. I'm not always in the same mood when I play games, sometimes I like to goof off. Sometimes I like to just race around. If the game adapts to the way I was playing it will limit me the way I want to play the game.
Adaptive difficulty is better. If you have problem beating foo X, then after a while foo X will become easier. If you are stuck in a maze or unable to solve a puzzle, provide hints through game related mechanism (for example, receive a phone call with an hint, or let the PDA "compute" a solution).
And the game becomes easy... (Score:4, Funny)
There is a sword in the middle of the room, what would you like to do?
"Leave sword"
-Enemies Removed from all rooms-
-Puzzles added to all rooms-
You enter a room with a puzzle, what would you like to do?
"I hate puzzles!"
-Puzzles removed from all rooms-
-You Win! You are the new moon master!-
It might be more interesting (Score:2)
The game I wanted? (Score:4, Funny)
In the near future, such networks will be used to adapt games like Tomb Raider while they are played (e.g. by removing or adding puzzles and enemies), so you get the game you want."
Awesome! In my case, I think it would be hilarious to watch Tomb Raider slowly morph into Starcraft.
Steam stats (Score:5, Insightful)
Varied play (Score:3, Insightful)
Mark Rosewater (Score:3, Interesting)
You can find the original article here [wizards.com]. The other articles are found here [wizards.com] and here [wizards.com]/
MMO Matchmaking!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
(No, this is NOT about cybering...)
I want to enjoy MMOs. I really do. But somehow I always wind up on the team with Leeroy @#$% Jenkins.
Someone REALLY needs to add this technology to an MMO -- and then help players to form groups with other people who have the same play style. Let Leeroy and his team of Runners go and have their fun. I'll hang out with some Puzzle-Solvers or Explorers or People Who Actually Read The Quest Dialog or whatever bucket is appropriate for the way I play the particular game. I need help joining the right pick-up group or guild or whatever (if I had social skills, I'd be outside) and an LFG Chat Channel isn't really enough.
THAT would be a customized game experience worth some money ($15/month to whoever could implement it).
-- 77IM
Re:Well I don't think much of this (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's already been done for EVE Online. They found two groups:
1) Pirates; who spend 90% of their playtime being awesome at gatecamps.
2) Carebear Gayfags.