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Comments: 625 +- Games: Wolfenstein Being Recalled In Germany on Wednesday September 23, @10:25AM
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D1gital_Prob3 tips news that Activision's recently-released shooter, Wolfenstein, is being recalled in Germany due to the appearance of swastikas in the game. Such symbols are banned in Germany, and the German version of the game went through heavy editing to remove them. Apparently, they missed some. Activision said, "Although it is not a conspicuous element in the normal game ... we have decided to take this game immediately from the German market." Reader eldavojohn points out a review that has screenshot comparisons between the two versions of the game.
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Differences between versions (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version [schnittberichte.com]
Some of the changes I found a little fun too, like the hand [schnittberichte.com].
It's also interesting that the game is 18+ and germans are still not allowed to see any blood.
Here's the texture they apparently forgot to modify [schnittberichte.com].
Seeing how many changes to the game and to the textures they've had to do, I'm not that surprised something that small slipped in.
The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
Beyond the obvious problems with censorship in general, this kind of "censorship" where superficial elements are removed while keeping the overall spirit and subject matter of the game (come on, who wouldn't figure out looking at those obfuscated Nazi banners what the REAL symbol is supposed to mean) is abous as ridiculous as Japanese censorship laws, where you can make the most perverted porn than any other country in the world, but must superficially pixelate certain parts.
If you are not willing to forgo censorship alltogether, at least do it "right". What's done here detracts from immersion while serving absolutely no purpose towards whatever your censorship laws are trying to serve (unless their purpose is to ruin immersion, that is)
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the anti-Nazi laws made sense in the first decade or two after the end of WWII, and maybe an argument can be made right through the Cold War, but come on. Is there anybody out there who seriously still has a Thatcheristic fear that they'll be burning the Reichstag again?
Yes, there are some neo-Brown Shirt skin heads out there, and all the anti-Nazi symbolism laws in Germany and Austria haven't seemed to put much of a dent in them. Short of shooting anyone who looks remotely like a Hitler lover, I think the time has come and gone when the laws could be justified.
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is, laws like this are incredibly difficult to get rid of. What politician wants to stand up and denounce such a law, at the risk of looking like a Nazi sympathiser?
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the issue is with where to draw the line. Obviously, someone shouldn't be allowed to fly the flag of Nazi Germany outside their house, as that would be extremely intimidating to anyone living nearby who belongs to any of the groups Nazis don't like. By banning the swastika nearly outright, they avoid situations where someone could claim it was there for some artistic, ironic reason.
Actually, it wouldn't be intimidating. If you tried this (and it was legal), I can guarantee that the flag, the flagpole, the garden fence, your windows and many other things would be gone very soon.
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
Displaying the confederate flag doesn't generally imply a threat of violence.
Maybe not to you...
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Funny)
That way the neighbors can remind them what happens to nazis in the end.
You mean by giving them a free trip to South America?
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Interesting)
Immediately after the war, Germany was essentially under military occupation by the victorious powers. In effect, most of the normal liberties that the citizens could have hoped to enjoy (not that they actually had enjoyed said liberties since the Nazi rise to power) were suspended. The logic at the time was they did not want the provisional military government(s) undermined by an aggressive push by remnants of the Nazi party. It was the same justification used by the occupying military government in Japan to terminate all religious rituals and notions of divinity that the Emperor had enjoyed.
In short, for better or for worse (and I think history indicates that in both Germany and Japan, for the better), these were moves to disestablish the regimes in question, not only to remove them (or at least in the case of Japan to castrate) but to discredit them.
You won't find a bigger proponent of free speech than me, but if I was the military governor of, say, the British Sector in 1946, you're damned straight I wouldn't want any Nazis coming out of the woodwork to try to mount some sort of revolution. Six hard and bloody years had been spent toppling these bastards.
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version [schnittberichte.com]
Wow how did you ever find that link? Did you actually read the summary or something?
The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.
German law Strafgesetzbuch Section 86 [wikipedia.org]:
Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; [...] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. [...] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. [...] Section 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (Â 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in Section 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.
Note: I do not agree with the German governments staunch policy against symbols [bbc.co.uk] but they're free to govern as they see fit (pending the EU's approval). If they want to keep selling the game in Germany, they might want to uphold German laws. I don't know how many gamers are in Germany but they have a population of about 82 million and I think that it's a safe bet some "texture, remaster, repackage" can be afforded for that market.
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Funny)
Official notice. From this day forward, right angles are verboten. Enjoy your ellipses, damen und herren.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You forgot to capitalize "Damen" and "Herren". Yeah I know I'm being nitpicky. ;-)
I find it interesting the EU States can ban images within a videogame, and the publisher MUST comply with that restriction. I wonder if the same could happen with a US State? Could California declare "no more swastikas" and force Activision to edit California editions of Wolfenstein, or would the U.S. overrule that decision? If yes, could the EU eventually overrule Germany's law?
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Funny)
I think you mean that you're being a "Grammar [REDACTED IN GERMANY]"
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Informative)
Umm, I live in Taiwan and I can let you know that they still use a reversed swastika. I see it on every Buddhist temple (which is quite a lot) and on some of the more traditional residences. It's only a religious symbol to them here, most people don't even know that the Nazi party used it.
Of course, these are the same people that think the word playboy means rabbit and have no idea of the brand's link to the porn industry. Gotta love Asian culture.
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censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently this [schnittberichte.com] is the reason that it has to be pulled from the market. I don't know about you but I find the rationale for this type of censorship to be utterly absurd. So much for free speech.....
Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
Its even more absurd considering the fact that the game is all about KILLING the nazis..
AFAIK there is no option to play as a nazi in this game (unlike, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory).
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Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
No kidding. Seems like Germans would have learned a thing or two about the negative aspects of authoritarianism. Censorship, even well intentioned, can easily turn into repression. Freedom of expression protects everyone.
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Re:censorship (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
You are incredibly naive! Not only was outlawing Naziism pretty much imposed on our government by your government and its allies, (so much for your "Freedom of Expression"), but you seem to think that putting some nice sounding principles into a constitution guarantees citizens rights. We have a saying in Germany: "Paper is patient." This means that you can write whatever you like down on paper but it doesn't necessarily mean anything! Communist East Germany had a beautiful constitution granting its citizens all kinds of rights which they didn't actually have in practice! Also it seems to me that what your constitution means changes with the composition of your Supreme Court judges. Furthermore it is extremely easy to ignore or misinterpret constitutions and countries ideals as witnessed by the many US citizens that firmly believe that the US started out and was intended to be a Christian state.
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Re:censorship (Score:5, Interesting)
Freedom of Expression is guaranteed by the German Constitution. There are Nazi marches in Germany and the corresponding, much larger, counter-marches, just like those KKK marches in the state that you are referring to. Nobody suggested those were forbidden. The only "expression" that is expressively forbidden is denial of the Holocaust, and that law is simply a special, very strict case of legislation against libel.
The German Constitution does not ban National Socialism. It codifies human and civic rights, like those that you mention, and several others (most importantly, the right to dignity). You have clearly never read it, otherwise you wouldn't lecture about it like this.
German law strikes a different balance between Freedom of Expression and the Protection from Intimidation than the Anglo-American system, because of the country's history. Imagine living in what was arguably the world's most industrially advanced, culturally influential, progressive country. Then, one day, the houses of parliament are disbanded by armed paramilitaries. Your intellectual elite is driven into exile or killed. Almost all civic rights are abolished. About eight to ten Million Jews, politicial dissidents, Gays, Roma, mentally ill and others are killed. Finally, your country goes on to unleash the world's deadliest ever war, killing well above 30 Million people in the battlefields. I think you can be forgiven for outlawing the symbols of the movement that caused all this afterward.
Jeez, people, everytime anything related to this law comes up, everyone starts crying censorship. There is one small bloody set of symbols that's forbidden. One stupid verse of a song, and one stupid greeting. That's it! It's not like Germany had a censorship agency. In most of the United States, you can't even take a piss in public! How's that for freedom of expression?
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Re:censorship (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't even go that far. Nazi symbols are only forbidden when they aren't shown in a historical context.
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Re:censorship (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, it's almost like Germany never ratified the United States Bill of Rights...
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Free Speech is an inalienable right, not something doled out to you by a friendly Governmental overlord. Nice try though.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We want to keep right-winged people to from glorifying the Nazi time and we want to keep them from using their symbols, if possible.
In other words you want to restrict their freedom of political expression because you find their ideals abhorrent. You can justify it any way that you wish but it's still censorship. Personally I find the notion of censoring a Nazi to be as offensive as his political goals if not more so -- because we ought to know better.
Trotskydoom (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trotskydoom (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not true:
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so long ago (Score:5, Insightful)
It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead. Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now. It's time to give free speech a try.
Re:so long ago (Score:5, Informative)
Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now.
German denial of history has nothing on the Japanese. Bataan death march, what? Rape of Nanking, what? Death railway, what? Those weren't in my history books......
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead.
That's not quite true, though. Yes, most original Nazis are dead, but with their death also comes a greater tendency to forget the dangerous tendencies that got things started.
For example, the NPD [wikipedia.org] (National Democratic Party) has had representatives in the national government for years now (and it receives 5-10% of the vote in some regions). The
Fuck you! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Bavaria was btw one of the least nazist lands probably. They are simply over-conservative so even smallest strain of nazism is going to remain there for quite some time. (Hint: nazism came to power and spread from poor German lands while Bavaria was (and is) one of the richest.)
Frankly the ban on svastika is absurd, considering that neo-nazis are pretty harmless bunch and it is anti-nazis whom I actually afraid of more.
In northern poor lands of Germany (where from browns have originated) though spiri
Hey Germany (Score:3, Insightful)
The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?
Especially since it's a historically sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Mithraism. Actually, reading about the Swastika [wikipedia.org] here and how popular of a symbol it was before the rise and all of the Nazi Party, I'm shocked that you don't see it more often in Western nations.
Swastika (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, rationality is far too much to expect from a censorship board.
Re:Swastika (Score:4, Informative)
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Well, ok.... (Score:5, Funny)
As long as the game doesn't include a map to Poland, we should be ok.
I'd love to see the other German edits (Score:3, Funny)
Will they replace all the swastikas with walkie-talkie's? I always maintained in the bunker with Hitler and Eva, Hitler shot first. Did that get changed, too? And is the blood still green?
Germany needs to get over it already! (Score:3, Interesting)
It's freaking history. The U.S. didn't respond to the history of the civil war by banning any and all rebel markings. The symbols of Germany's history will always exist. Making it so that people don't see it as often changes nothing. But the existence of law that outlaws particular symbols or words are harmful. The next step is outlawing thoughts and feelings.
Don't mention the war ! (Score:5, Funny)
Basil Fawlty: Is something wrong ?
4th German: Will you please stop talking about the war ?
Basil Fawlty: Me ? You started it !
4th German: We did not start it.
Basil Fawlty: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.
Re:Am I the Only One (Score:5, Insightful)
but the invisible-to-my-eye Swastikas are not?
Don't you know that human beings are so impressionable that all they need is to see a small swastika and they will instantly volunteer to help load the boxcars? Clearly we need a benevolent government to protect us from such evil.
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Re:While it's really just a game.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Shame the anti-Nazi folk couldn't give you a break
I'm anti-Nazi. Everyone here is (hopefully) anti-Nazi. That doesn't mean we should censor their symbols out of existence or try to ignore history.
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Re:While it's really just a game.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ignoring history (or hiding from it) seems to be the basis of these laws. It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika. It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
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Re:Socially progressive... (Score:4, Insightful)
What the fuck are you talking about? Not allowing Swatiskas in birthplace of the Nazi regime is somehow part of a worldwide trend on reducing freedoms? I know shit about contemporary German culture, but I can imagine that the swatiska is a emotional lightning rod for people there. You know ... the regime was responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people. Sure, they aren't really dealing with it by hiding it, but that's their choice. This is a uniquely German issue, not some liberal plot to filter words or ideas.
Also, equating video games with suffering because it doesn't have blood or swatiskas in it is like saying some dude is suffering because his fajita wasn't served with sour cream. It's not suffering. It's whining.
Jesus ... I don't know who is a bigger ass ... you or the people who modded you insightful.
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Re:The paradox is evident... (Score:5, Informative)
Being from Germany I can assure you that Nazi symbols are not banned from any history book or documentation or whatever. But presenting Nazi symbols in another context than education (or similar) is not allowed.
This ban helps keeping Nazis under control - you have a simple thing in your hands to kick their butts with this law and others. Additionally, regarding the well known history of Germany there is NO REASON to show, wear or use Nazi symbols other than for a) education (allowed) or b) propaganda for forces against the German democracy (disallowed).
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Re:The paradox is evident... (Score:4, Insightful)
Additionally, regarding the well known history of Germany there is NO REASON to show, wear or use Nazi symbols other than for a) education (allowed) or b) propaganda for forces against the German democracy (disallowed).
So which is Wolfenstein?
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Re:Reading some comments (Score:4, Insightful)
I would agree that some of the people posting not only have a mental age of about 13, but are likely chronologically 12-15 as well. That doesn't change the fact that the anti-nazi laws in Germany look pretty silly for those of us that don't actually live there. You shouldn't comment on other countries laws if you don't know them very well. Your interpretation (or at least your statement) of the libel, slander, and tort laws within the US makes for a nice sound bite, but it's not nearly that simple. Simply believing a statement to be true, or the proclamation of such isn't a valid defense. Just an FYI - the US libel laws are based on the original British defamatory laws, and are very similar at their core.
You should really brush up on your history a little bit, because the US was invaded. The white house burned down to the ground. We don't ban flags, symbols, or discussions about the subject. We don't ban the confederate flag, or other civil war era material. Vietnam wasn't a war, it was a police action -- big difference. Burying your head in the sand and pretending something didn't happen or doesn't exist doesn't make you better, it just raises a new generation of ignorant citizens.
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Re:Reading some comments (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, I should have mentioned that I am of German descent. A large portion of my family still resides in Germany, and I have spent significant time there, starting from childhood, albeit I haven't been there in many years. Some of Germany's civil laws are pretty silly, or at least were. Being able to drink pretty much as soon as you can ask for it, but it's illegal to play pinball or video games in public at least until you turn 18. You can't have minors in movie theaters in the evening, even if accompanied by their parents, watching PG movies?
Odd, but I don't necessarily disagree, I also saw a large 4-5 story building with a mural of a naked/bare chested lady. Naked/bare chested women on public tv during the evening. I remember watching (sorry, my german is pretty poor, so my cousin was translating some), about some plot to make bras that secretly blow up like balloons. A rather silly plot line, but plenty of gratuitous nudity during prime time. Personally, I find that fine as well, but I find it odd that as open minded as that is, the great lengths the country has gone to hide it's own history.
Just some of the absurdities I encountered while there.
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