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Wolfenstein Being Recalled In Germany 625

Posted by Soulskill
from the ach-mein-leben dept.
D1gital_Prob3 tips news that Activision's recently-released shooter, Wolfenstein, is being recalled in Germany due to the appearance of swastikas in the game. Such symbols are banned in Germany, and the German version of the game went through heavy editing to remove them. Apparently, they missed some. Activision said, "Although it is not a conspicuous element in the normal game ... we have decided to take this game immediately from the German market." Reader eldavojohn points out a review that has screenshot comparisons between the two versions of the game.
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Wolfenstein Being Recalled In Germany

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  • by sopssa (1498795) * <sopssa@email.com> on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:25AM (#29515943) Journal

    Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version [schnittberichte.com]

    Some of the changes I found a little fun too, like the hand [schnittberichte.com].

    It's also interesting that the game is 18+ and germans are still not allowed to see any blood.

    Here's the texture they apparently forgot to modify [schnittberichte.com].

    Seeing how many changes to the game and to the textures they've had to do, I'm not that surprised something that small slipped in.

    The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:33AM (#29516095)

      Beyond the obvious problems with censorship in general, this kind of "censorship" where superficial elements are removed while keeping the overall spirit and subject matter of the game (come on, who wouldn't figure out looking at those obfuscated Nazi banners what the REAL symbol is supposed to mean) is abous as ridiculous as Japanese censorship laws, where you can make the most perverted porn than any other country in the world, but must superficially pixelate certain parts.

      If you are not willing to forgo censorship alltogether, at least do it "right". What's done here detracts from immersion while serving absolutely no purpose towards whatever your censorship laws are trying to serve (unless their purpose is to ruin immersion, that is)

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by oldspewey (1303305)

        I have to agree here. If a nazi-themed game runs afoul of German law, then simply don't sell the game there.

        • by MightyMartian (840721) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:57AM (#29516511) Journal

          I think the anti-Nazi laws made sense in the first decade or two after the end of WWII, and maybe an argument can be made right through the Cold War, but come on. Is there anybody out there who seriously still has a Thatcheristic fear that they'll be burning the Reichstag again?

          Yes, there are some neo-Brown Shirt skin heads out there, and all the anti-Nazi symbolism laws in Germany and Austria haven't seemed to put much of a dent in them. Short of shooting anyone who looks remotely like a Hitler lover, I think the time has come and gone when the laws could be justified.

          • by SoVeryTired (967875) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:24PM (#29516977)

            The trouble is, laws like this are incredibly difficult to get rid of. What politician wants to stand up and denounce such a law, at the risk of looking like a Nazi sympathiser?

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Yes, but now some politician has to be publically *for* removing the laws which means this issue has to be more important to them than about a million of other issues which really are important unlike whether or not schwa stickers are allowed.. So... This poitician with questionable priorties may also have questionable ideologies ( since this minor thing was so important to them ) which means they likely wouldn't get elected in the first place.

            I mean unless you were a nazi why risk something that matters

      • by harks (534599) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:41PM (#29517283)
        Jean Plantureux, the political cartoonist from France's Le Monde newspaper, came to talk to my college a few years back and explained that due to anti-Nazi laws they couldn't draw any swastikas on anyone. So what they do if they want to say somebody's a Nazi is they draw them with an armband with a white circle on it. Everyone knows exactly what the white circle means.
    • by eldavojohn (898314) * <[moc.liamg] [ta] [nhojovadle]> on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:40AM (#29516227) Journal

      Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version [schnittberichte.com]

      Wow how did you ever find that link? Did you actually read the summary or something?

      The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.

      German law Strafgesetzbuch Section 86 [wikipedia.org]:

      Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; [...] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. [...] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. [...] Section 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (Â 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in Section 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.

      Note: I do not agree with the German governments staunch policy against symbols [bbc.co.uk] but they're free to govern as they see fit (pending the EU's approval). If they want to keep selling the game in Germany, they might want to uphold German laws. I don't know how many gamers are in Germany but they have a population of about 82 million and I think that it's a safe bet some "texture, remaster, repackage" can be afforded for that market.

      • by KillerBob (217953)

        Um... weren't some of the in-game maps on Wolfenstein shaped like swastikas? Even if they removed the textures that had swastikas on them, wouldn't that still count?

        • by The Ultimate Fartkno (756456) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:48AM (#29516349)

          Official notice. From this day forward, right angles are verboten. Enjoy your ellipses, damen und herren.

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            You forgot to capitalize "Damen" and "Herren". Yeah I know I'm being nitpicky. ;-)

            I find it interesting the EU States can ban images within a videogame, and the publisher MUST comply with that restriction. I wonder if the same could happen with a US State? Could California declare "no more swastikas" and force Activision to edit California editions of Wolfenstein, or would the U.S. overrule that decision? If yes, could the EU eventually overrule Germany's law?

            • by discogravy (455376) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:18PM (#29516887) Homepage

              You forgot to capitalize "Damen" and "Herren". Yeah I know I'm being nitpicky. ;-)

              I think you mean that you're being a "Grammar [REDACTED IN GERMANY]"

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by scorp1us (235526)
            Mod parent insightful, not funny. Seriously though, Buddhism used the swastika [religionfacts.com](usually a mirror image though) . This was done up until Germany rendered it a vile symbol. Before that it meant good fortune and other positive things. Men give these symbols meaning. The geometry is indifferent.
            • by Dayze!Confused (717774) <slashdot.org@NoSpAM.ohyonghao.com> on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:34PM (#29517145) Homepage Journal

              Umm, I live in Taiwan and I can let you know that they still use a reversed swastika. I see it on every Buddhist temple (which is quite a lot) and on some of the more traditional residences. It's only a religious symbol to them here, most people don't even know that the Nazi party used it.
                  Of course, these are the same people that think the word playboy means rabbit and have no idea of the brand's link to the porn industry. Gotta love Asian culture.

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by superdana (1211758)
                The original (pre-Nazi) swastika is still used in Japan too. It's all over the maps there--it marks the location of temples.

                Also, those of you who have character palettes on your computers, look up Unicode code points 534D and 5350. I wonder if those are blank on German computers.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Runaway1956 (1322357)

      Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in /home/sc003clu/www/home/includes/config.php on line 67

      Warning: Missing argument 1 for showerror() in /home/sc003clu/www/home/includes/config.php on line 93
      Fehler 1040 : Too many connections

      Gotta 3 /.

      But, IMO, it's about time to start letting that censorship crap go. Really. Apparently, the game is perfectly legal and acceptable all around the world, except Germany. After 6 decades it's just time to move on. And, no, "moving on" doesn't mean forgetting the

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by notbob (73229)

      This censorship in germany of the swastika is beyond retarded.

      Whether you're proud of the Nazi's or not, they happened and were the pride of germany for many many years and did a great deal more to advance this world then any other group in history.

      I personally thank the nazi's for causing the world to change, and see no reason to try to rewrite history by denying the world from seeing the symbols of it.

      Many people feel the nazi's were ignorant for killing that many people, but being ignorant enough to prom

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Zoxed (676559)

        > Many people feel the nazi's were ignorant for killing that many people, but being ignorant enough to promote censorship is just as bad if not worse.

        Have I understood you correctly: are you saying that banning the Swastika in German is the same as starting WW2 and creating the Holocaust ?

  • censorship (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shakrai (717556) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:27AM (#29515977) Journal

    Apparently this [schnittberichte.com] is the reason that it has to be pulled from the market. I don't know about you but I find the rationale for this type of censorship to be utterly absurd. So much for free speech.....

    • Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Absolut187 (816431) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:38AM (#29516183) Homepage

      Its even more absurd considering the fact that the game is all about KILLING the nazis..

      AFAIK there is no option to play as a nazi in this game (unlike, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory).

    • Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Hatta (162192) * on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:40AM (#29516239) Journal

      No kidding. Seems like Germans would have learned a thing or two about the negative aspects of authoritarianism. Censorship, even well intentioned, can easily turn into repression. Freedom of expression protects everyone.

      • Re:censorship (Score:5, Informative)

        by DarkDust (239124) <marc@darkdust.net> on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:01PM (#29516575) Homepage
        The law was done by the Allied Control Council and was then taken over into our "Grundgesetz" (constitution). So you can blame your politicians for our censorship, in a sense ;-) Still, most of us Germans regard the law to be a non-issue. It's meant to keep right-winged people from glorifying the Nazis. Normally, it's only an issue if you're right-winged or a game maker placing your game in WWII.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Hatta (162192) *

          It's meant to keep right-winged people from glorifying the Nazis.

          By quashing political dissent, you are becoming like the Nazis. Let the right wingers openly glorify the nazis, so reasonable moderate people can see just how awful they are. Here in the states we let the KKK march freely, and usually the protests over the march are bigger than the klan march itself. If you do not trust your populace to make the right choice when fully informed, how can you even pretend to be democratic?

          By singling out Nazis

          • Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)

            by VirginMary (123020) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @01:36PM (#29518277)

            You are incredibly naive! Not only was outlawing Naziism pretty much imposed on our government by your government and its allies, (so much for your "Freedom of Expression"), but you seem to think that putting some nice sounding principles into a constitution guarantees citizens rights. We have a saying in Germany: "Paper is patient." This means that you can write whatever you like down on paper but it doesn't necessarily mean anything! Communist East Germany had a beautiful constitution granting its citizens all kinds of rights which they didn't actually have in practice! Also it seems to me that what your constitution means changes with the composition of your Supreme Court judges. Furthermore it is extremely easy to ignore or misinterpret constitutions and countries ideals as witnessed by the many US citizens that firmly believe that the US started out and was intended to be a Christian state.

          • Re:censorship (Score:5, Interesting)

            by DancesWithBlowTorch (809750) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @01:38PM (#29518303)
            Sorry, but you are ignorant.

            By quashing political dissent, you are becoming like the Nazis. Let the right wingers openly glorify the nazis, so reasonable moderate people can see just how awful they are. Here in the states we let the KKK march freely, and usually the protests over the march are bigger than the klan march itself. If you do not trust your populace to make the right choice when fully informed, how can you even pretend to be democratic?

            Freedom of Expression is guaranteed by the German Constitution. There are Nazi marches in Germany and the corresponding, much larger, counter-marches, just like those KKK marches in the state that you are referring to. Nobody suggested those were forbidden. The only "expression" that is expressively forbidden is denial of the Holocaust, and that law is simply a special, very strict case of legislation against libel.

            If you really want to prevent Nazis from gaining power again, don't outright ban them in your constitution. Codify principles incompatible with Naziism in your constitution. Freedom of religion, Freedom of Expression, etc. As long as Freedom of Expression is not protected by your constitution, it can be taken away from you. When (not if) that happens, do you really care if it was the Nazis or some other group?

            The German Constitution does not ban National Socialism. It codifies human and civic rights, like those that you mention, and several others (most importantly, the right to dignity). You have clearly never read it, otherwise you wouldn't lecture about it like this.

            German law strikes a different balance between Freedom of Expression and the Protection from Intimidation than the Anglo-American system, because of the country's history. Imagine living in what was arguably the world's most industrially advanced, culturally influential, progressive country. Then, one day, the houses of parliament are disbanded by armed paramilitaries. Your intellectual elite is driven into exile or killed. Almost all civic rights are abolished. About eight to ten Million Jews, politicial dissidents, Gays, Roma, mentally ill and others are killed. Finally, your country goes on to unleash the world's deadliest ever war, killing well above 30 Million people in the battlefields. I think you can be forgiven for outlawing the symbols of the movement that caused all this afterward.

            Jeez, people, everytime anything related to this law comes up, everyone starts crying censorship. There is one small bloody set of symbols that's forbidden. One stupid verse of a song, and one stupid greeting. That's it! It's not like Germany had a censorship agency. In most of the United States, you can't even take a piss in public! How's that for freedom of expression?

      • >>>Seems like [the World] would have learned a thing or two about the negative aspects of authoritarianism...

        Fixed. And yet still we have stupid laws being passed that restrict freedom of speech, not just in Germany, but also throughout the EU, the US, Australia, and other supposedly "liberal" countries.

    • Re:censorship (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Brian Gordon (987471) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:44AM (#29516291)

      Yeah, it's almost like Germany never ratified the United States Bill of Rights...

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Shakrai (717556)

        Free Speech is an inalienable right, not something doled out to you by a friendly Governmental overlord. Nice try though.

        • I'm sorry, but when the supreme law of the land is the GOVERNMENT and not PEOPLE (or gasp a "god") then the ULTIMATE authority that gives you that "Right" is the Government.

          This is the problem with people who think that "society" has rights that can intrude on the rights of a mere citizen.

          We are a people of laws, but the supreme law of the land is given to the states, or to the people, not to the FEDS. The US government is already totalitarian. We're just the frogs in the pot and haven't noticed the heat.

          An

        • May I ask what your religious belief is? If atheist, agnostic or similar, may I then ask where this right originates from and who determines the limits of that free speech?

    • by DarkDust (239124)
      Well, it's an old thing in games here in Germany. Basically, the law forbids to show "anti-constitutional" symbols (unless it's in a historic, educational and/or satiric context). According to the German Wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org] this law was made by the Allied Control Council during their move to forbid the NSDAP and its symbols. It was then taken over into our "Grundgesetz" (think constitution) and AFAIK you need more than a normal majority to change a "Grundgesetz" law which would make it very hard to change the l
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Shakrai (717556)

        We want to keep right-winged people to from glorifying the Nazi time and we want to keep them from using their symbols, if possible.

        In other words you want to restrict their freedom of political expression because you find their ideals abhorrent. You can justify it any way that you wish but it's still censorship. Personally I find the notion of censoring a Nazi to be as offensive as his political goals if not more so -- because we ought to know better.

  • Trotskydoom (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Baldrson (78598) * on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:30AM (#29516043) Homepage Journal
    So just release a modified version of Wolfenstein that focuses on commies rather than nazis called "Trotskydoom" wherein the objective is to blow away all of the Bolsheviks that are confiscating food from the farmers to impose the famine of 1921 on rural Russians. I mean, come on, there isn't anywhere in the world the hammer and sickle are outlawed and the commies killed far more than the nazis did so it should be even more fun than Wolfenstein!
    • Re:Trotskydoom (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DNS-and-BIND (461968) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:34AM (#29516129) Homepage
      The nazis are loved by nobody. The commies, especially Trotsky, are still worshipped and respected in some parts of the world. And not only ignorant parts, either - highly educated people believe in it! That makes it pretty much a no-go as far as video game villains go. You need someone who nobody sympathizes with, like aliens or nazis or corporations.
      • You obviously never played Rush'n Attack comrade!

      • by gnick (1211984)

        Trotsky got big enough to be revered and loved (and immortalized as Snowball in Animal Farm), but never big enough to foul things up and be hated like Lenin. He even had the good sense to get assassinated while still popular and published.

        What boggles me is that Mao isn't universally hated... Or why Lenin's body hasn't been vandalized...

        I'm with you - If I make a video game, I'm shooting evil aliens. I think I'll call it District 9. ;-)

        • Lenin actually wanted Trotsky to succeed him. It was Stalin that Lenin distrusted and wanted kept from the top spot, but after Lenin's stroke, Stalin was the one with the charisma and sheer will to rule who managed to get his hands on the Bolshevik machine. It helped that Stalin managed to get his hands on Lenin's will and make sure no one saw what Lenin really thought of him.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by icebraining (1313345)

        Not true:

        Freedom Fighters, originally titled Freedom: The Battle For Liberty Island, is a 2003 third-person shooter video game available for the Playstation 2, Nintendo GameCube, Xbox and Microsoft Windows that is set in an alternate history. The player takes the role of Christopher Stone, a plumber-turned American Resistance movement leader who fights against the Red Army that invades and occupies New York City.

    • I mean, come on, there isn't anywhere in the world the hammer and sickle are outlawed and the commies killed far more than the nazis did so it should be even more fun than Wolfenstein!

      Except The Republic of Hungary, Latvia, and Lithuania [wikipedia.org]. Well, the exception is that it can be used for educational and artistic reasons, and I'm sure they can get away with it for artistic reasons in this case. :-)

  • so long ago (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lord Ender (156273) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:30AM (#29516053) Homepage

    It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead. Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now. It's time to give free speech a try.

    • Re:so long ago (Score:5, Informative)

      by Shakrai (717556) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:46AM (#29516335) Journal

      Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now.

      German denial of history has nothing on the Japanese. Bataan death march, what? Rape of Nanking, what? Death railway, what? Those weren't in my history books......

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I agree that denying access to free speech is not the answer. There is enough collective German guilt still around to keep neo-Nazis in check for quite a while.

      It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead.

      That's not quite true, though. Yes, most original Nazis are dead, but with their death also comes a greater tendency to forget the dangerous tendencies that got things started.

      For example, the NPD [wikipedia.org] (National Democratic Party) has had representatives in the national government for years now (and it receives 5-10% of the vote in some regions). The

    • Fuck you! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by PontifexPrimus (576159) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:16PM (#29516855)
      Seriously, fuck you. And get back to me when you can say that on American television; until then, continue denying that anyone in America ever fucked.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Darth (29071)

      They are definitely not denying the existence of history. When I was in Germany, everyone there was very aware of their history. I agree that suppression of symbols isn't helping, but they aren't doing it in an attempt to deny the Nazis existed.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Idarubicin (579475)

      It's time to give free speech a try.

      You go first. [wikipedia.org]

  • I wonder what actually happens to a German person if they ever catch a glimpse of a swastika. I assume it's something terrible, if their government goes to such great lengths to protect them from setting eyes on the symbol, even in fictional game. Does it flip some sort of switch that makes them slobbering monsters? I wonder... Somebody should try flashing swastikas at Germans and recording their horrendous transformations for science.
    • by Shakrai (717556)

      Does it flip some sort of switch that makes them slobbering monsters?

      This might explain my ex-girlfriend from Bavaria. She must have played a game of Wolfenstein right before we met. Damn you ID!

  • Stuff like this is one reason out of many I'm very wary of social progressives. Germany is a socially progressive state, and I don't think it's at all a coincidence that such censorship exists. Of course the social progressives are going to come out of the woodwork to justify it by scaring people up about the possibility of Nazis arising again and so on and so forth, but I guess sacrificing freedom in order to protect it is just a necessity to them. Individual freedom is on the down-and-out world-wide in

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Umm, the reason it exists is because as you may have heard Germany had a little bit of bother with nationalism around the 1930's and 1940's. It has nothing to do with social progressives and all to do with that early to mid 20th century problem.

      Regardless of whether the German government is left, right or liberal that law would still exist.
    • by WankersRevenge (452399) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @12:08PM (#29516729)

      What the fuck are you talking about? Not allowing Swatiskas in birthplace of the Nazi regime is somehow part of a worldwide trend on reducing freedoms? I know shit about contemporary German culture, but I can imagine that the swatiska is a emotional lightning rod for people there. You know ... the regime was responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people. Sure, they aren't really dealing with it by hiding it, but that's their choice. This is a uniquely German issue, not some liberal plot to filter words or ideas.

      Also, equating video games with suffering because it doesn't have blood or swatiskas in it is like saying some dude is suffering because his fajita wasn't served with sour cream. It's not suffering. It's whining.

      Jesus ... I don't know who is a bigger ass ... you or the people who modded you insightful.

  • Hey Germany (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland @ y a hoo.com> on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:33AM (#29516105) Homepage Journal

    The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
    A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?

    Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
      A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?

      Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?

      Especially since it's a historically sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Mithraism. Actually, reading about the Swastika [wikipedia.org] here and how popular of a symbol it was before the rise and all of the Nazi Party, I'm shocked that you don't see it more often in Western nations.

  • Swastika (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Spatial (1235392) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:34AM (#29516113)
    If it's so bad, why the hell do they censor it when the point of the game is to lay waste to everything it stands for?

    Of course, rationality is far too much to expect from a censorship board.
  • by Chairboy (88841) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:34AM (#29516121) Homepage

    As long as the game doesn't include a map to Poland, we should be ok.

    • Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it. So it's all forgotten now and let's hear no more about it. So that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Herman Goering and four Colditz salads....no, wait a minute...I got confused because everyone keeps mentioning the war. -- Basil Fawlty
  • by jollyreaper (513215) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:37AM (#29516165)

    Will they replace all the swastikas with walkie-talkie's? I always maintained in the bunker with Hitler and Eva, Hitler shot first. Did that get changed, too? And is the blood still green?

    • by Shakrai (717556)

      I always maintained in the bunker with Hitler and Eva, Hitler shot first.

      <tinfoil hat>Dude, Hitler's still alive. I thought everybody knew that? He's living a peaceful life as a painter somewhere in South America.</tinfoil hat>

  • why in the world would I try to kill them? Damn Germans, still the same insensitive clods they were back in '37-'45.
  • by erroneus (253617) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:46AM (#29516317) Homepage

    It's freaking history. The U.S. didn't respond to the history of the civil war by banning any and all rebel markings. The symbols of Germany's history will always exist. Making it so that people don't see it as often changes nothing. But the existence of law that outlaws particular symbols or words are harmful. The next step is outlawing thoughts and feelings.

  • by BigJim.fr (40893) <jim@liotier.org> on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @11:51AM (#29516403) Homepage

    Basil Fawlty: Is something wrong ?
    4th German: Will you please stop talking about the war ?
    Basil Fawlty: Me ? You started it !
    4th German: We did not start it.
    Basil Fawlty: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.

  • Just wanted to thank eldavojohn for the review link. Apparently the site is blocked due to adult/pornographic content on my work network. Which is always a nice message to see pop up in your browser...
  • by burni2 (1643061) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @01:45PM (#29518475)

    Now having heard that social progressives are more into censorship .. than others etc..

    I want to state some facts about germany and the background, and in the end my own opinion:

    The swastika, also the posing in the public
    doing the "Nazi salute", and public saying of "Heil Hitler" with a non-documentary or historic background are prohibitted.

    If you do a historic documentation about the NAZIs the use of the Swastika is allowed.

    But also building up organizitions and naming them
    after their Nazi counterparts is prohibitted,

    like
    - "NSDAP" the Party also known as the "NAZI"-party
    - "HJ" (Young Hitlericans(male))
    - "BDM" (Young Hitlericans(female)
    - "SS" (Sturm Staffel)

    or stating that the holocaust never happend,
    also known as "Holocaust Luege" - holocaust lie.

    b.) Are there Nazis still in Germany active ?

    Yes, they are. In Germany, we have two (bigger) extreme right wing parties:

    - NPD (Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands)
    (nationaldemocratic party germany)
    - REP (Republikaner :: Republicans)

    The NPD has some MPs in east german non-federal parliaments. Some days ago they also managed to reenter one of the parliaments in a row.

    That's a premiere because anytime else they entered a parliament they were out on the next election. Mostly because their members had stolen
    computers, office equipment and embezzled money for themselves(it was meant for covering expenses due to political work).

    Funny isn't it, for a party which stands for law and order, more order than law I guess.

    So these people mostly turn out to be total boneheads, the elitebrain leaders within those parties are few.

    But they are connected and involved to non-offical/underground/forbidden organizations like the "Freie Kameradschaften"

    sometimes those organizations gather weapons
    and explosives, for terrorist acts.

    The members of these "gangs" are often young and violent, they gather in flashmobs and have
    hobbies like beating up foreigners, just for being foreign, sometimes they kill, or
    hunt their prey in such a threatening way that the hunted people try to get into a safehouse by kicking in a glass window, accidently cutting themselves and bleeding to death.

    If you have black, dark skin or look like a gipsy
    you can end up as their prey, but sometimes because you look funny or do not speak german.

    And if you are jewish they demolish your property or paint graffities like "SS" or "Jude verrecke"
    (this means Jew die, in an extreme unpleasant way)
    onto your property, synagogues and graveyards.

    And all this, happens in germany still, mostly
    in eastern germany - there are dangerous hotspots
    where this happens, outside of these hotspots
    it's mostly safe.

    The prohibitions are instated to battle those
    extreme right parties.

    Please keep this in mind, when discussing
    those NAZI-topics.

    To get things into the right perspective, for germany those violent acts are _not_ common,
    most foreign visitors describe germany as a
    "clean and friendly country", and to be clear most of my fellow citizens are no NAZIs and won't do any harm.

    But recent studies suggest 10 percent of the allowed voters can imagine themselves to vote
    for extreme right parties.

    So most of us try that those new Nazis will not ever rise up again, as it happend in '33.

    My personal opinion about this topic is:

    I think it's wrong that the holocaust-lie is prosecuted by law, because I want to know what
    idiot I face from the beginning.

    Perhaps after my lines below you can imagine why this is a very sensitive spot in our history even today.

    Six Million people dead - selected to live or to die, after they left the train on the basis of their condition. Those who could do work, or were technically skilled were forced to work very low on food, with no medical support, so it was death by work. Those who were weak - children, elderly

  • by CODiNE (27417) on Wednesday September 23, 2009 @06:54PM (#29523421) Homepage

    Earlier this year while preparing for a move I put some old Lucas Arts games up for sale on eBay.

    Day of the Tentacle, Sam and Max, Indiana Jones, etc...

    Well the weird thing was how the Indiana Jones auctions took off and I started getting all these international bids on it. It complicated things for me since I wasn't familiar with international shipping but anyways, I checked and they were all German. HUH! Then I realized for the first time that Indiana Jones must be completely banned in Germany.

    Of course with Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls it really IS for their best that it remain banned...

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