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Comments: 211 +- Games: Game Development On Android on Wednesday October 14, @06:14AM
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Gamasutra is running an article about the state of game development on Android. The author explains some of the strengths and weaknesses of the platform, and makes comparisons to development on the iPhone. Quoting:
"While iPhone apps are written in Objective C, the Android SDK uses relatively more programmer-friendly Java. The iPhone store charges developers $99 a year to distribute their apps, while Android has a one-time $25 fee for developers. And the review process for iPhone apps grows increasingly lengthy — sometimes weeks or more — and it's somewhat arcane. Android apps go live as soon as the developer hits the publish button. Google handles the review process post-hoc, and is much more lax in terms of content. ... For now, if a developer decides to implement a game exclusively for a particular smartphone platform, and the choice is between the iPhone and Android, the tradeoff is between trying to get noticed in an incredibly crowded and competitive market where the potential payoff is huge for those at the top, or entering a market with low barriers, little competition, currently low returns, but the possibility of potential growth."
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opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not really a problem in PC, it can be assumed everyone has atleast keyboard and a mouse and if you're playing games, graphics card too. What it comes down to is if you have enough RAM, CPU and powerful enough graphics card and you can see the requirements from the package (or online).
Phones are different because of the actual hardware differences. Like you said, some phones might have (multi)touch or not, physical keyboard or just software keyboard, 3d acceleration, different types of physical keyboards, different resolutions and so on. Since iPhone is always the same kind, it's easier to develop to it.
However for Windows Mobile and Symbian game developers have usually released different versions for different devices. It might create more barrier for an indie developer to entry the market because they have to test their software on all the supported devices and make adjustments, but for studios it's not so much work. But then again, big studios port their games to all platforms; Symbian, WM, iPhone and Android.
But Java on Android.. meh.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
One could easily say the same about Objective C on the iPhone. It's no Sunday walk in the park.
A programming language is a programming language. They all have features that people like and dislike. With Obj. C 2.0, Apple has made quite a few strides in making Obj. C programming much easier, with things like properties replacing your standard setter/getter methods & allowing for dot notation. The only real pain is that the iPhone doesn't support garbage collection due to performance issues, so you still need to manage your memory. Obj. C is also pretty verbose, but with CodeSense that doesn't matter much. Most people who complain about Obj. C probably haven't spent the week or so it takes to learn all of the nuances. There's even a book out now called Learn Objective-C for Java Developers [tr.im] which helps to bridge the gap.
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Re:opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to ask: I've been programming Objective C off and on for a few years now (around the time they switched to Intel), and while Objective C 2 brought a lot of good stuff with it, is dot notation really that big of a deal?
It's not a big deal for most people, but if you're coming from Java or C++, it makes it look slightly less exotic. So instead of having to write
:-), but if it helps some people overcome their mental blocks, then it is probably a big deal for them.
[myThing setThing:5];
You get to write
myThing.setThing = 5;
It turns out to be about the same # of characters, so you don't really gain anything there (unless you don't like using your pinkies
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Re:opinion (Score:5, Interesting)
Just sayin'.
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It might create more barrier for an indie developer to entry the market because they have to test their software on all the supported devices and make adjustments, but for studios it's not so much work.
Indeed, but to add to that, it's far less work that porting to another platform such as the Iphone.
A developer can pick whatever phone they like to develop for. If it turns out that some of those share a common platform (such as Windows, Android, etc) that make it relatively easy to run on other devices, in n
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I just don't see it.
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Anything from Bloom/HDR to Anisotropic filtering back all the way to 3d textured FPSes. The jump from, say, Doom to Quake was entirely driven by uptake of hardware 3d acceleration.
If you decide to "not see" those as innovation, well, that's your choice. They're certainly innovations in the style of games that can be portrayed. When/if the next change comes to realtime raytracing, that will completely change the way games can be designed (no need to count maximum visible polys, for a start), and that will
Not innovation, but development (Score:3, Insightful)
The biggest strength the iPhone platform has is that the screen sizes are all the same, which makes game development much easier. You can optimize for that resolution and the standard set of inputs, instead of having to accommodate some people without multi-touch, some people with a keyboard and some without, all with different screen sizes that may affect the playing field.
The iPhone game developer does have the same issues as far as 3D power though, because the 3Gs and newer Touch devices support a more
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1). I don't really care about innovations done for "scalability" done for PCs. With a console, you know exactly what everyone has, therefore you can optimize your art assets, audio assets, and your engine to run on that specific hardware. With a PC, you're wasting time trying to figure out how to dynamically determine if this player has obscure graphics feature C and dealing with turning it on or off. That's time that could be spent on real innovations, such as gameplay, that the "market" (players) actually
Trendy (Score:2)
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I do care about the openness of Phone, or so I always think. I love Windows Mobile (and my HTC has better interface than the usual WM one) because theres no restrictions on what apps you can install, like on iPhone and Symbian.
But then again, why? Yes it's great when you want to install certain app and theeres nothing in way of that (as long as theres such app available), but frankly I dont use the phone so much that I really care much. I might sometimes play around with some new fancy app I found, but then
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You can use logic all you want to show the advantages Android phones have, but until the shine wears off for the iPhone fans and people realize just how tied their hands are, it will remain the dominant phone.
You're half right, the other part of the shine equation is eventually, the air of exclusivity will wear off and apple will become the next burberry and chavs will have them and then no one will want one.
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You're half right, the other part of the shine equation is eventually, the air of exclusivity will wear off and apple will become the next burberry and chavs will have them and then no one will want one.
Don't assume that everyone picks a phone based on who else uses it or whether it is trendy.
Many people pick phones based on how it works and what it does - I certainly chose an iPhone on that basis, because the UI was the first one which felt like it was actually designed with a user in mind. The UI on the iPhone is good in my opinion, much better than what came before. It's quite a good phone (*if* your telephone service is good), the software is updated regularly, and in spite of Apple's control freak ten
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Using, and developing for, an iPod touch (can't afford the iPhone) I fail to see how my hands are 'tied' or how a regular user would ever 'realize their hands are tied'. Dream on Mr. Revolutionary Geek, and make sure you fight the power of sleek designs.
Tempting (Score:2)
Android is definitly a tempting choice for development - purely because of the ease in which you can push a product to market. But then again, there's also Symbian, which is used on things like the Nokia N97, which has been around for ages (in various itterations), the latest one is the true smart-phone style thing, but I have a 3 year old phone with an older version of Symbian on it that can still run Java Games, meaning there is already the possibility of a large market for simple apps that can run on old
N97? (Score:2)
First, I have an N95 8GB which is the best "phone" I have ever seen. Symbian is fine as long as there are buttons to push. I mistakenly bought the steaming pile of shit, that Nokia refers to as the N97. Nope, Symbian is not god for, ready for, should be used on, anything with a touch screen. This thing is a disaster. Update the OS, doest it make it any better? Nope. Symbian has hit a brick wall. N95 = good (V3) N97 = not only bad, but embarrassing for Nokia.
I think the reason Nokia is releasing the N900 is
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Amen.
iPhone - locked down to what Apple wants you to do.
Android - locked down to what Google wants you to do (ie Java/Dalvik development only with their own version of the app store and installation verification)
Maemo - pure, open, Linux loveliness.
(and then there's WebOS and Moblin too)
ArsTechnica has a little review about Nokia's plans and the N900 [arstechnica.com]. Its step 4 on their 5-step Linux/Maemo strategy. Certainly it will set the bar higher for the other players and possibly dominate the smartphone/tablet/MID ma
Java more programmer-friendly than Obj-C? (Score:2)
That's depends entirely on the taste and skills of the programmer.
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And more to the point, what about garbage collection? Every time the garbage collector kicks in the UI freezes for a short time. You really don't want this in a game (or at all really). In fact can anyone name any popular games written in Java? As far as I know they are nearly all C/C++.
Luckily you can write OpenGL Android games in C++ using the NDK.
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This problem has been solved long ago by incremental garbage collection. Apple's Objective-C 2.0 also has garbage collection BTW.
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Android doesn't use incremental garbage collection. Or JIT for that matter.
Re:Java more programmer-friendly than Obj-C? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, Android uses a converter that changes java bytecode to a different beast entirely, and performs a large number of global optimisations that decrease size and increase speed - ones that a compliant Java VM isn't allowed to do. So it ends up going about the same speed as JIT, but only needs the power a small phone supplies.
As for garbage collection - Android performs about as well as a C/C++ program filled with malloc()/free() or new/delete. C/C++ games programmers could do that, but they choose not to because they know that avoiding malloc/free/new/delete gives them a performance boost. Android has exactly the same tradeoff - avoid object creation in your code! Create what you need at the start of a level and then don't free it until the end of the level. You'll get good performance. Android has an entire section on how to get good performance [android.com], just like C/C++ programmers have plenty of strategies for getting good performance out of any platform.
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It doesn't convert it to a 'different beast entirely'. It's still bytecode, and slower than native code.
new/delete is still much faster than garbage collection, and doesn't freeze the UI like Android's GC does.
Check out this paper, they found that java with manual free's performs much much better than GC java, especially when memory is limited (as in phones):
http://www-cs.canisius.edu/~hertzm/gcmalloc-oopsla-2005.pdf [canisius.edu]
Re:Java more programmer-friendly than Obj-C? (Score:4, Informative)
I have no idea about the Android JVM, but in a regular Java JVM object creation is actually significantly faster than malloc. This article [ibm.com] is quite old, but shows that even back in 1.4.2 days it was nothing to be scared of.
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What about applications that are not games. Can you still write them in c++ without wrapping the entire iPhone api?
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Only problem I ever had was with the GCC compiler that was included with versions prior to iPhone OS 3.0 SDK, which would spew out warnings for C++ objects with non-trivial ctors embedded in Obj-C objects even though I did explicit calls to ctor/dtor's. Now it's done automatically with the right compiler flag.
Really... Is Java easier to program games with than C++/Obj-C? Making an assump
Give us C++ (Score:2, Insightful)
Java may appeal to some, but many of us just want C/C++ (Objective-C, allows that).
Games on consoles and PC are normally not developed in Java for many good reasons. Game developers that want to transition to phones are likely to prefer to stay with C++ where they can use their tools of choice, such as Visual Studio.
In fact, I think that a few people out there already develop C++ on PC and keep the actual iPhone/XCode build on the side. This is a big plus for those that are already making games and would li
Re:Give us C++ (Score:4, Informative)
Someone please mode this up!
The latest release of the NDK now officially allows OpenGL ES access from C/C++.
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The stats say it all (Score:3, Insightful)
While 90k+ apps & over 2bln downloads makes it harder to get noticed, those numbers say it all.
I've used a few Android phones and I like them. But the thing that makes the iPhone great to develop for (after you get past obj-c hurdle, the api's are actually really good) is that it's *standard*. One form factor, end of story. I can't help but think Android is gonna fall into the same hole that J2ME did when it tried to support everything. Already developers are maintaining separate branches for separate devices for Android. I've developed J2ME apps before and they are a f-ing nightmare. That platform never took off for a reason, because there's *too much* choice and diversity. Everything to all people; good luck.
There are also no where near as many Android users as iPhone and so developing for that platform with the intent to make some money on your app is not very plausible at this point. Maybe in a few years, maybe not. (Plus I hate Eclipse, so much unnecessary bloat, just like Java. I want tools that are fast and that don't require 5mil downloads of some frameworks I'll never use. But the Eclipse thing is only my hang up and I'm sure most Android devs won't care.)
So as a developer what makes more sense? 5 code bases for 5 Android phones - all with different form factors / features - and relatively little money for all your toil? Or one platform and the chance to hit it big? It's the same argument on a PC; develop for the huge Windows market, or everyone else?
Re:Seems a trifle disingenuous to me (Score:5, Interesting)
You're being shortsighted though. While your numbers might currently be true, you're not seeing the big picture in all of this. Apple is 2 years old on the market, they are past their initial launch boost and they have exactly 1 product with different capacities.
Android is less than a year old on the market, many of the Android devices are announced and coming this fall/winter. They have many more carrier deals than the iPhone has, and already more devices. Expect the tables to turn in 1-2 years. Apple will become the niche and Android will be everywhere. That is if they manage to supplant Symbian which right now has 3 times more market share than the iPhone and Android put together.
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They have many more carrier deals than the iPhone has, and already more devices. Expect the tables to turn in 1-2 years. Apple will become the niche and Android will be everywhere.
iPhone and Android are in different kinds of market. iPhone's disadvantage *is not* that it only has one device on the market; it's an advantage for Apple, since it's the exact same phone for the whole platform, while in Android (and Symbian/Windows Mobile and so on) developers have to count all different kinds of devices and make separate apps for every phone. However, for Android it's also their advantage that they will have more models on the market.
They do not necessarily have to fight with each other.
Re:Seems a trifle disingenuous to me (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they're really not. iPhone and Android compete in the same space, with the same kind of marketing and appeal to the same kind of crowd. They are Internet devices that happen to have phones in them. And Android is pretty device agnostic contrary to Symbian. The Android Market is open to all Android phones and Apps aren't really limited to certain phones yet (the ones on the market all share the same specs under the hood). You can think the iPhone is safe, but Apple has a lot of competition coming in the next few years and they better be ready to fend it off.
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Think about it this way. If you need to lubricate something (not like that), what kind of lu
Re:Seems a trifle disingenuous to me (Score:4, Insightful)
name a market segment that cares about *any* of that then get back to me.
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Re:Seems a trifle disingenuous to me (Score:4, Interesting)
1. Windows Mobile is on a lot of different devices but according to Canalysis, the iPhone outsold all WM devices combined worldwide last quarter.
2. Rob Glaser, founder and C.E.O. of RealNetworks (circa 2003), ''It's absolutely clear now why five years from now, Apple will have 3 to 5 percent of the player market.'' Plays4Sure devices were suppose to overtake Apple and leave Apple a niche player....
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/30/magazine/30IPOD.html?ei=5007&en=750c9021e58923d5&ex=1386133200&partner=USERLAND&pagewanted=all&position= [nytimes.com]
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I can't agree with this entirely, you're forgetting that there was life (or rather, there were smartphones) before the iPhone. It's not like there was nothing before, but iPhone wiped the floor and really set the standard.
3 years ago, everyone was clamouring over the new motorola, nokia, treo or what have you. The market was segmented, lots of different standards (anyone remember nGage?), OSes, and phone brands. Then all of a sudden comes the iPhone - one phone, one supplier, one app store, one developme
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Most people want a phone that looks cool, plays good games, has good music playing capability and is fun to use.
Class, notice that people do not want a phone that can make calls. That is why the iPhone does well while its phone capabilities are lacking.
Re:Seems a trifle disingenuous to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Twenty years ago, in Europe, the PC was a dull machine that you only ever ran business applications on. Maybe a flight simulator if you're lucky. The Mac was an obscure machine for desktop publishing. If you wanted gaming, you bought an Amiga or Atari ST. Now look where we are.
You're pointing at the entrenched PC games market, where everyone has hugely invested in writing in C++ for the Microsoft Direct3D API.
By comparison, smartphones are relatively new and the investment in Apple's iPhone API is tiny compared to the gigantic Windows-only ecosystem (Windows-only middleware, Windows-only tools, Windows-only 3D programmers, etc.) that keeps gaming chained to PCs.
So, given Android programming is much easier (far more programmers know Java than Objective C), and there's not yet a huge iPhone-only ecosystem in place, switching is still relatively painless. All it would take is one damn good phone running Android to topple Apple off its perch.
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Objective-C is not all that bad...
I'm a Java Web developer, without any real experience on desktop programming. But recently I was given the chance to do a small iPhone app for one of our clients, so I had to learn Objective-C from scratch to do it.
Objective-C might seem a little weird at first, but when you got used to the sintax the concepts used on the frameworks are not all that different from the Java counterparts. Appkit for example is much more pleasant to work with than Swing, for example.
It took ar
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I would definitely include "media hype" as part of any potential iPhone-toppler, not just technical merits.
But, if Android gives you an OS for nothing, you should have plenty left over in your marketing budget for media hype.
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well the G1 is kind of a junky phone, not to mention TMobile is kind of a bum carrier.
Android has a lot of potential, and when the Q4 wave of new android phones rolls out in time for the holidays, there may be a diamond in the rough.
only time will tell.
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That doesn't mean that Java is more programmer-friendly than Objective C.
Right, it just means that more programmers are Java-friendly.
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Obj-c is not a superset of c++