upto0013 writes "Chinese bureaucrats are battling each other for the right to regulate World of Warcraft. They hope to gain the political clout and the revenue that comes along with controlling a new industry with potential for explosive growth. 'If you supervise a more dynamic area with a lot of growth potential, you have more budget and more administrative muscle,' said Edward Yu, president of Analysys International, an Internet research firm in Beijing. 'They see this pie is getting bigger and bigger, so it is no wonder different administrations are fighting over pieces of that territory.' It's absurd how orcs and elves (and Moonkin) can affect so many different faraway places."
I think you mean 'Hidden Nightelf' since they are the ones with Shadowmeld.
Don't have a problem with the Crouching Tauren thing, since they keep having to duck down to get through most doorways without wedging their horns in the frame...:)
We had two bags of Fras Siabi's finest, seventy-five pellets of vision dust, five sheets of high-powered mana residue, a saltshaker half-full of R.O.I.D.S, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... Also, a quart of sulfuron slammer, a quart of volatile rum, a case of dark iron ale, a pint of raw embalming fluid, and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get into locked a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.
(Honestly though, this is a non-story: Several government department have partially overlapping areas of control so they argue about which one has the control on those areas. Those things happen a lot, especially with the internet and other new technology. In other areas those fights have already been settled a century or so ago.)
It's not really a non-story when last I heard, there are something like 6 MILLION accounts in China. Even if each of those only pays $1 a month (they're charged on a different schedule to us) that's a $72M/year business they're talking about. No wonder there's a turf war over who 'owns' it legislation-wise.
My first mental image was a conference room full of bureaucrats and a duel flag dropping down in the middle.
Or two opposing teams of bureaucrats playing a Warsong Gulch match.
Hmm. Does anyone else think this could be the next big MMO? "That's not a red health bar on the boss -- that's how much red tape you have to cut through!"
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Western reporters in Beijing are total dumbasses. They constantly write stories colored by their own blinders they're not even aware that they're wearing. The story doesn't even mention that WoW/Netease problems getting a license in China has been going on for a while now and is nothing new. It's not really even a story, just a space filler - bureaucratic turf wars between communist ministries are news now? Anyhow, I just wanted to mention whenever you see that line at the top of the story, immediately mentally activate your BS detectors. If you want China news, there is no shortage of primary sources in English. Even my own small city district has its own website, with a translated English page. Here is a much better story from Shanghai Daily [chinadaily.com.cn], which lays out the issue in a much clearer fashion:
``The GAPP said downloading online games is also an "online publication". GAPP is responsible for reviewing and approving "publications", and the ministry has the right to regulate the "online game" market.''
Compelling story, eh? This is typical of what comes out of Western media in Beijing.
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Western reporters in Beijing are total dumbasses. They constantly write stories colored by their own blinders they're not even aware that they're wearing.
So, pretty much like every reporter and newspaper?
For a really simple counterexample to the claim that the BBC is unbiased, what's the BBC's take on the television licence? Would they be indifferent to being thrown to the wolves of capitalism?
The chairman of the BBC called for the abolition of the TV license last week, in favour of having the BBC funded out of general taxation rather than a specific levy. The BBC has, in the past, covered stories of people protesting about the TV license and has included quotes from people opposed to it. Any time a public figure criticises the BBC, you will find a BBC story covering it, usually giving someone at the BBC an opportunity to respond, but not generally weighted towards the BBC. For some examples, look at this story [bbc.co.uk] and this one [bbc.co.uk].
Isn't this just a cynical way of describing ones "perspective"? Every mind perceives the world from it's own perspective, has it's own world view coloured by it's experiences.
Sure you can compare perspective to "blinders" and call those people "dumb asses" but they are the same blinders worn by your dumb ass.
...now what if we establish a small backyard gold furnace in every commune and in each urban neighbourhood. I believe that will be a great leap forward in the gold farming economy.
Actually, I had some in depth talks with some friends from China about WoW.
They still only have level 70 because the government STILL hasn't "filtered" every last quest in WotLK for any themes that might contradict the Chinese government policies. I'm dead serious. The "censorship" is that horrific.
Not only that, but there are some really weird censorship issues you wouldn't expect. For example, there are no undead in Chinese WoW because the Chinese government won't allow any human bones to be shown in the game. So anywhere you see a skeleton, it had to be removed by Blizzard.
Not only that, but there are some really weird censorship issues you wouldn't expect. For example, there are no undead in Chinese WoW because the Chinese government won't allow any human bones to be shown in the game. So anywhere you see a skeleton, it had to be removed by Blizzard.
Well, if I made a MMORPG where everybody is naked and targeted it to the 13+ audience, I bet I would have to make some changes before it was published in the US. It is ultimately my problem if I designed thousands of NPCs while ignoring the culture of my target market.
Some things are cultural. Don't expect them to make a lot of sense. If Blizzard had planned for the Chinese market from the start, instead of undead you would have a different race and they wouldn't have to change a thing.
Hmm if it's truly a cultural issue, then wouldn't it be a self-regulating feedback loop?
In other words, if you're that offended by the game diong something repugnant to your culture, you won't play... end of problem.
It seems to me that the whole bones thing may go against certain cultural norms, but that the government is the one who has a problem with it.
I honestly don't know enough about Chinese cultural norms to know if showing bones is equivelent (to the Chinese) as your hypothetical MMORPG would be to America.
I keep trying to think about this from an outsider's perspective, but I keep getting back to "dude, it's just bones. if it bothers me, I won't look, but it doesn't so where's the harm?". There are one or two substitutions for the word "bones" that you could add that would make it illegal in the US, and where most members of our culture would even agree that it should be a crime.
Cultural relativism is a damn minefield.
I'll just go back to LFM H ToC 25 now and be happy that my culture allows me to waste my evenings and weekends in this manner.
Instead of warlords fighting for turf, you have civil servants fighting for budget. Progress. You also have the advantage that, unlike the US and the UK, you already have an overbearing, censorship-obsessed, fascist* slave state, so you don't have the civil servants fighting to get the budget to create one.
* anyone who thinks China is Communist doesn't understand either (a) the meaning of communism or (b) history.
China would appear to me to meet the definition of a fascist state more than it does a communist state. The Chinese government is single-party, authoritarian, nationalistic, and while it plays lip service to old communist tropes like class struggle, in point of fact it has increased the stratification of its society into classes radically over the last two decades. It plays host to a large contingent of corporations that are hybrids of state and private control, and it manipulates its society through direct
China would appear to me to meet the definition of a fascist state more than it does a communist state. The Chinese government is single-party, authoritarian, nationalistic, and while it plays lip service to old communist tropes like class struggle, in point of fact it has increased the stratification of its society into classes radically over the last two decades. It plays host to a large contingent of corporations that are hybrids of state and private control, and it manipulates its society through direct and active control of religious institutions and public discourse.
That's the classic communist definition of 'fascism,' but it's also what most communist states invariably end up looking like. There's always a 'new class,' there's always lip service to communist tropes while the new class stratification is implemented, there's always corporations or corporation-equivalents, sometimes foreign based or sometimes 'design bureaus,' whose presense benefits the New Class more than the old one, and there's always control over public discourse and religious institutions. It happe
This is government at its simplest and most honest: the struggle for power and influence, consequences to the people be damned. Let those who would expand the powers of their own governments forget this at their peril.
US bureaucrats are also falling over each other to regulate whatever they can because it gives them power. Bureaucracies work the same the world over, communist or not.
This is about who gets to be in a position of demanding bribes to allow WOW in their country. This is about good old fashioned greed and doesn't have a damn thing to do with Orcs or Elves. Since this is seen as potentially very lucrative, people will fight to be in a position to exploit this. It's fundamentally no different than any other fight for territory.
I know the game is far from over, but I have seen the start of a movement of people just fed up of playing so much for so long, and wanting something different...WoW had its day, and even though I am a die hard fan, have my account and play alost everyday (.5 to 1.5 hours) I have to say I think WoWs days are limited, they are taking too much time between expansions (being the limit for lvling is rumored to be 100) so the next expansion is lvl 80 - 85, instead of the usual 10 lvls.....I think this is a mista
In otherwise functional nations (not broken ones like Somalia or North Korea), daily life is pretty similar for people who tow the line. There really cannot be too much dissimilarity between the humdrum of the average worker between equivalent societies. People eat, work, commute, sleep, etc.
Where societies diverge is usually in how they deal with problems and people who don't tow the line for whatever reason. That's where China becomes a scary place... nothing says oppression quite like killing a dissiden
Ummm, your ignorance is astonishing. Or your hyperbole.
If you're trying to draw a parallel between the Chinese Gov't and US Gov't because of some difficulty you had with taxes or some annoying permit you were required to get (probably by your local Gov't, and not even the Fed)... ahh, why am I even bothering trying to answer this rationally. Dude, read a book. I'd start with the dictionary and the definition of the "Authoritative." Then try reading a year's worth of articles about life in China. Then, reflect on how much of that information you wouldn't be reading if you lived in China (or what hoops you'd have to jump through to read it, and what consequences there would/could be for disseminating it.)
Then, put your money where your mouth is and move there and take your flippant attitude toward gov't with you. Please, express it loudly and unabashedly as much as possible. And then, after ten years, let's have this discussion again.
It's accepted insanity. But it isn't the Chinese.. it's everyone. People accept crazy things when they are desensitized to them. Security theater, windows, death, living in garbage, and so on.
they really want to stop any anti chain chat in ga (Score:3, Insightful)
they really want to stop any anti chain chat in game and they want to tax the gold farmers.
Can we watch? (Score:5, Funny)
Can they fight within the game so we can all watch?
(So. Would being mod'ed a "troll" be good or bad for this thread?)
Re:Can we watch? (Score:5, Funny)
It's gonna be a big hit.
Crouching Tauren, Hidden Draenei
Parent
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Re:Can we watch? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't have a problem with the Crouching Tauren thing, since they keep having to duck down to get through most doorways without wedging their horns in the frame...
Parent
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Minmatar will kill you all!
Ok, wrong game.
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(Honestly though, this is a non-story: Several government department have partially overlapping areas of control so they argue about which one has the control on those areas. Those things happen a lot, especially with the internet and other new technology. In other areas those fights have already been settled a century or so ago.)
It's not really a non-story when last I heard, there are something like 6 MILLION accounts in China. Even if each of those only pays $1 a month (they're charged on a different schedule to us) that's a $72M/year business they're talking about. No wonder there's a turf war over who 'owns' it legislation-wise.
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I was thinking I'd much rather see them fight it out in real life, with a stadium full of raucous fans: 2 bureaucrats enter, 1 bureaucrat leaves!
I've been playing WoW too much... (Score:5, Funny)
My first mental image was a conference room full of bureaucrats and a duel flag dropping down in the middle.
Or two opposing teams of bureaucrats playing a Warsong Gulch match.
Hmm. Does anyone else think this could be the next big MMO? "That's not a red health bar on the boss -- that's how much red tape you have to cut through!"
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Let's pit them against the IRS!
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They'd just let you win and then tax 60% of your points.
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The first line of the story tells you everything (Score:3, Informative)
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Western reporters in Beijing are total dumbasses. They constantly write stories colored by their own blinders they're not even aware that they're wearing. The story doesn't even mention that WoW/Netease problems getting a license in China has been going on for a while now and is nothing new. It's not really even a story, just a space filler - bureaucratic turf wars between communist ministries are news now? Anyhow, I just wanted to mention whenever you see that line at the top of the story, immediately mentally activate your BS detectors. If you want China news, there is no shortage of primary sources in English. Even my own small city district has its own website, with a translated English page. Here is a much better story from Shanghai Daily [chinadaily.com.cn], which lays out the issue in a much clearer fashion:
Compelling story, eh? This is typical of what comes out of Western media in Beijing.
Re:The first line of the story tells you everythin (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Western reporters in Beijing are total dumbasses. They constantly write stories colored by their own blinders they're not even aware that they're wearing.
So, pretty much like every reporter and newspaper?
Parent
Re:The first line of the story tells you everythin (Score:5, Insightful)
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The state controlled media has assured us of their lack of bias from of an investigative report they did on themselves assuring us they were unbiased.
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Re:The first line of the story tells you everythin (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
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Isn't this just a cynical way of describing ones "perspective"? Every mind perceives the world from it's own perspective, has it's own world view coloured by it's experiences.
Sure you can compare perspective to "blinders" and call those people "dumb asses" but they are the same blinders worn by your dumb ass.
What I think is more likely (Score:5, Interesting)
Or maybe they found the right people, but they're asking too much for CWoW to be profitable?
Parent
obvious solution (Score:2)
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Surely, Comrade... (Score:2)
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...now what if we establish a small backyard gold furnace in every commune and in each urban neighbourhood. I believe that will be a great leap forward in the gold farming economy.
New race? (Score:3, Funny)
Worse than that... (Score:5, Interesting)
They still only have level 70 because the government STILL hasn't "filtered" every last quest in WotLK for any themes that might contradict the Chinese government policies. I'm dead serious. The "censorship" is that horrific.
Not only that, but there are some really weird censorship issues you wouldn't expect. For example, there are no undead in Chinese WoW because the Chinese government won't allow any human bones to be shown in the game. So anywhere you see a skeleton, it had to be removed by Blizzard.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Not only that, but there are some really weird censorship issues you wouldn't expect. For example, there are no undead in Chinese WoW because the Chinese government won't allow any human bones to be shown in the game. So anywhere you see a skeleton, it had to be removed by Blizzard.
Well, if I made a MMORPG where everybody is naked and targeted it to the 13+ audience, I bet I would have to make some changes before it was published in the US. It is ultimately my problem if I designed thousands of NPCs while ignoring the culture of my target market.
Some things are cultural. Don't expect them to make a lot of sense. If Blizzard had planned for the Chinese market from the start, instead of undead you would have a different race and they wouldn't have to change a thing.
Re:Worse than that... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm if it's truly a cultural issue, then wouldn't it be a self-regulating feedback loop?
In other words, if you're that offended by the game diong something repugnant to your culture, you won't play... end of problem.
It seems to me that the whole bones thing may go against certain cultural norms, but that the government is the one who has a problem with it.
I honestly don't know enough about Chinese cultural norms to know if showing bones is equivelent (to the Chinese) as your hypothetical MMORPG would be to America.
I keep trying to think about this from an outsider's perspective, but I keep getting back to "dude, it's just bones. if it bothers me, I won't look, but it doesn't so where's the harm?". There are one or two substitutions for the word "bones" that you could add that would make it illegal in the US, and where most members of our culture would even agree that it should be a crime.
Cultural relativism is a damn minefield.
I'll just go back to LFM H ToC 25 now and be happy that my culture allows me to waste my evenings and weekends in this manner.
Parent
It's a sign that China is modernising (Score:5, Insightful)
* anyone who thinks China is Communist doesn't understand either (a) the meaning of communism or (b) history.
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China can't be communist! Communists aren't evil fascists like China!
No true Scotsman...?
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Instead of warlords fighting for turf, you have civil servants fighting for budget
Civil servants fighting for budget in China has been going on for several thousand years.
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China would appear to me to meet the definition of a fascist state more than it does a communist state. The Chinese government is single-party, authoritarian, nationalistic, and while it plays lip service to old communist tropes like class struggle, in point of fact it has increased the stratification of its society into classes radically over the last two decades. It plays host to a large contingent of corporations that are hybrids of state and private control, and it manipulates its society through direct and active control of religious institutions and public discourse.
That's the classic communist definition of 'fascism,' but it's also what most communist states invariably end up looking like. There's always a 'new class,' there's always lip service to communist tropes while the new class stratification is implemented, there's always corporations or corporation-equivalents, sometimes foreign based or sometimes 'design bureaus,' whose presense benefits the New Class more than the old one, and there's always control over public discourse and religious institutions. It happe
Government at its Most Honest (Score:2)
I guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
US bureaucrats are also falling over each other to regulate whatever they can because it gives them power. Bureaucracies work the same the world over, communist or not.
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That applies to elected positions as well. It's not that bureaucrats suck, it's that everyone sucks.
get real already (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad timing... (Score:2)
I know the game is far from over, but I have seen the start of a movement of people just fed up of playing so much for so long, and wanting something different...WoW had its day, and even though I am a die hard fan, have my account and play alost everyday (.5 to 1.5 hours) I have to say I think WoWs days are limited, they are taking too much time between expansions (being the limit for lvling is rumored to be 100) so the next expansion is lvl 80 - 85, instead of the usual 10 lvls.....I think this is a mista
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You dare call is Oomkins and we will drop a Starfall on your collective arses.
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Oomkins, Huntards. Fucking rogues.
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Modern China ain't communist by any real meaning of the word.
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Where societies diverge is usually in how they deal with problems and people who don't tow the line for whatever reason. That's where China becomes a scary place... nothing says oppression quite like killing a dissiden
Re:Power hungry money grubbing grab-asses (Score:4, Interesting)
Ummm, your ignorance is astonishing. Or your hyperbole.
If you're trying to draw a parallel between the Chinese Gov't and US Gov't because of some difficulty you had with taxes or some annoying permit you were required to get (probably by your local Gov't, and not even the Fed)... ahh, why am I even bothering trying to answer this rationally. Dude, read a book. I'd start with the dictionary and the definition of the "Authoritative." Then try reading a year's worth of articles about life in China. Then, reflect on how much of that information you wouldn't be reading if you lived in China (or what hoops you'd have to jump through to read it, and what consequences there would/could be for disseminating it.)
Then, put your money where your mouth is and move there and take your flippant attitude toward gov't with you. Please, express it loudly and unabashedly as much as possible. And then, after ten years, let's have this discussion again.
Parent
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It's accepted insanity. But it isn't the Chinese.. it's everyone. People accept crazy things when they are desensitized to them. Security theater, windows, death, living in garbage, and so on.