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Comments: 146 +- Games: Commodore 64 Runs Again On the iPhone on Saturday November 14, @12:02AM
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Hugh Pickens writes "Stephen Williams reports in the NY Times that the app recreating some of the Commodore's seminal retro games, including Le Mans, Dragons Den and Jupiter Lander, has been re-issued after being pulled in September. The app features SID sound emulation, auto-save to continue where you left off, and a realistic joystick with a beautifully crafted C64 keyboard. Apple originally rejected the program for violating the SDK agreement, which dictates that 'no interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).' After disabling the controversial feature, Apple published the app in September, but days later it was pulled and the developer was asked to remove, rather than just disable, the BASIC interpreter from the program, which would have allowed unscrupulous users to run unlicensed, emulated code on the iPhone or iPod Touch. 'The road was bumpy, but we remained persistent and made the changes Apple was looking for. Ultimately, BASIC has been removed for this release; however, we hope that working with Apple further will allow us to re-enable it,' the company wrote on its blog."
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Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't tell if you're trolling or trying to be funny.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I have just spent some time reviewing documents from just before the Wall fell [gwu.edu] and it was very clearly revealed that letting people have a little bit of freedom was ultimately disastrous.
WTF? Would you prefer the European Communist regimes run people over with tanks instead? You've pretty much Godwined the discussion right there.
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Ah, but there is another side to this technology. Next Friday will be Junis day [slashdot.org],a reminder to us all of the contributions of Commodore computers to the causes of liberty and to international journalism. Millions of impoverished Afghanis rely on Commodore Basic emulators on their iPhones to be able to participate in the international community. Apple are clearly hindering this in hopes of appealing to the lucrative Taliban market instead. Such cynicism is appalling.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
are you seriously comparing vendor lock in on software to the Soviet Union?
It's a PHONE. you're free to jail break and Apple won't zap your phone dead. Christ.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You're quite right - Apple is at the top of the proprietary heap.
If iPhone isn't a purposeful implementation of The Innovator's Solution's [amazon.com]* description of the proprietary to commodity process I don't know what is. I mean, the authors even have a section on Blackberry and describe how to better it ala iPhone.
Once a reasonable competitor emerges (is it Droid?) Apple will loosen its grip, but until then it commands higher profit by staying as controlling as possible.
* I know, the apostrophe should be after th
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"Apple must control everything. Yes, they regard even a BASIC interpreter as a threat."
No, it's not that. They consider GOTO to be harmful.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I hate DRM too but it probably isn't as bad as the USSR. Though really if Apple owned a country I'm not sure if it would be more or less restrictive than the USSR...
Re: (Score:2)
Neither am I - but one thing is for sure.. they would ban the spork.
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New meme?
In DRM Apple, the iPhone unlocks you!
Not sure it has the same ring to it...
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Though really if Apple owned a country I'm not sure if it would be more or less restrictive than the USSR...
If Apple owned a country it would be almost exactly like that commercial for the 1984 Superbowl. Except it'd be Steve Jobs up on the viewscreen and a bearded penguin running up the aisle while the mindless Apple drones would all be sticking their legs into the aisle trying to trip him. before he could throw a hammer through the viewscreen.
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App£€
Nice Eurocentric twist on the ol' M$ dealy.
I've always thought of the pound sterling symbol as more of an E or F though. Appee? Appfe?
Re: (Score:2)
Nope, it's definitely an L - it's related to lira, livre and lb (pound weight).
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:4, Insightful)
I hate the ridiculous anti-free nature of the app store, but it's not hard to see why Apple would be concerned. The fear is that if a program gets into the App Store that allows any sort of user-provided data to be executed, then evil unlicensed apps could be delivered to the platform through that interpreter.
For example, instead of writing your games in C and paying Apple to sell them on the app store, you could write your game in BASIC and deliver them through the C64 emulator. Apple makes no money. Not exactly practical, but if there's a hole in the interpreter environment that allows a jump into raw binary data (which could be set to ARM instructions) then it's up to the app developer to fix it, and Apple has no control. This is the kind of problem that plagued TI calculators for years until they decided to open them up, and was the door into custom unsigned software on game consoles before the age of modchips and hard drives.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Games written in BASIC that Apple wouldn't make money on, though... hmmm. How would Gorillas the iPhone Game [lhunath.com] make money if people are playing Gorillas [wikipedia.org] on BASIC?
(Actually, that's a free App. Oh, well.)
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I hate the ridiculous anti-free nature of the app store, but it's not hard to see why Apple would be concerned. The fear is that if a program gets into the App Store that allows any sort of user-provided data to be executed, then evil unlicensed apps could be delivered to the platform through that interpreter.
This problem is easily solved: Just require the code to be signed!
Although there are many upsides to interpreted languages, perhaps top of the heap is a short application development cycle. But I would happily throw a couple hundred bux for an interpretive SDK that let's me run unsigned code, so that I could develop my appz. Then, when I'm ready to sell, I get the code signed by Apple.
My company vends a product written in an common, interpreted language. It's closed-source, so we use a software obfuscation
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:4, Insightful)
It is ignorant to talk about Apple being upset at not being able to make money from Commodore basic games.
You can already release as many free games as you want, which cost apple money to host, and they do not make a cent. Apple doesn't care if you release any game you want, or as many as you want for free. They will not stop you (as long as you follow the rules).
It is clearly not about money. It is about a rule Apple created, not for commodore basic, but for things like flash. basic just happens to fit into this rule.
Parent
Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. You can do things your Apple overlords have not expressly given you permission to do. This cannot be allowed, because they have not given permission.
The phone market is Apple's wet dream, because none of the customers have any expectation of openness or being able to actually do anything with their own hardware, so there's not much complaint when they give users the full Apple experience by locking everything down. I fully expect they'd do the exact same damn thing with OS X elsewhere if they could get away with it.
Parent
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Well it would transform the iPhone from a Gadget to a computer, by adding the final step, rapid application development on the device itself.
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Apple is just pissed that no one made an Apple2 EMU, because the c64 rocked ass and was 1000x more popular that apple
crap creation with 1970s green screen crap that was even crap in 1982.
Keyboard was nice, but the insides were dead boring and dull.
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Re:Can you actually do anything useful? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple's problem is that they have a bunch of thieving users who think the iPhone is theirs to use as they wish just because they paid for it. Next thing you know, they'll be writing "hello world" and you know where that leads! If you give a bunch of scumbags like that even an inch, next thing you know, they'll be demanding that they get what they pay for every time! The nerve!!
Parent
One word (Score:2)
Jailbreak!
No (Score:2)
No. Pick another platform which doesn't have such stupid limitations.
http://www.symbian.org/devices [symbian.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance#Members [wikipedia.org]
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/en-us/devices/default.mspx [microsoft.com]
Show some kind of dignity. Stop buying devices treating you like some sort of criminal, 50 IQ idiot, 10 year old kid. Posted from Quad Core G5 btw...
The point is ? (Score:4, Funny)
What is the point of running a Commodore C64 Basic application on a DAMN PHONE ?
--Ivan
Re:The point is ? (Score:4, Funny)
Today: Commodore 64.
Tomorrow: VAX/VMS
Tuesday: Plan 9
Thursday: MacOS
Oh, wait....
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Friday: the Hurd.
Saturday: Duke Nukem Forever.
[small print] Days referred to above do not denote a specific Friday or Saturday, especially not next Friday or Saturday. VWP. YMMV. IJMUTA. [/]
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On real smart phones, people does it for years, installing/running their old games, showing their friends the code they wrote.
The issue here is, your device vendor and your apologists shouldn't be asking this question. It should be YOU choosing what to do with the computing platform you do. Why don't you ask why there is such a limit of "running emulated code"? Why don't you think 10 SECONDS about the reasoning behind it?
I can't wait for the "app store only" OS X 10.7 and apologists for the most closed comp
The app's BASIC really wasn't that usable anyway (Score:3, Informative)
I downloaded it before it got taken down the first time and had fun entering BASIC command for a couple of seconds before I lost interest. Touch screen keyboards are fine for quick SMS messages or email but I couldn't imagine being such a masochist that I'd want to enter entire programs in with one! I suppose someone with enough resolve could do some amazing stuff and create an alternative interface to the iPhone with 8bit PETSCII glory. Actually that would be kinda cool.
Anyway despite that, I kept the application and won't be upgrading, if only just to (Mr Burns voice) honk off my Apple masters :).
Does it come with software? (Score:2)
My favorite things to do in Legacy of Ancients is to rob towns or to play flip flop(and consequently run out of town when I break the bank). There is also
Re: (Score:2)
I loved making humongous ramps in racing destruction set, changing the gravity to like really wacky and then hit them really hard so the cars would jump forever. That was truly the most awesome game. I remember devoting countless hours to project firestart, phantasy, mig alley ace, cycle knight, speedball... Games that didn't suck.
Impossible Mission is the Problem (Score:2)
Also, I hear Jobs is jealous that he wasn't the first one to come up with the phrase, "stay a while. Stay...FOREVER!!!"
lalalalala (Score:2)
I can't help but wonder if this whole soap opera isn't like just some jealous retribution against those old "COMMODORE ATE THE APPLE" newspaper headlines. So now it is back, but they yanked out BASIC...
"Oh, no! We suck again!" - Rob Schneider
How many guru's started with BASIC? (Score:2)
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Boo apple.
The early home computers, including Apple, shipped with BASIC and a nicely bound manual [scribd.com] with clear instructions on simple programming. This was the first step for many who are now players in the industry.
It's almost like the old days again. I hear current Apple products still ship with a book that's about as thick as the old programming manual that came with the Apple ][.
I believe it's called The License Agreement or something like that.
especially C64 BASIC (Score:2)
Most of them started with C64 basic and became gurus of today. Why C64 BASIC? Because it was so horrible that you were required to do POKE hacks, ASM code, own ASM routines, know the registers etc.
Of course, after a certain level, they asked themselves "Why the heck am I bothering with this?" and moved to mixture of pure ASM and C.
Coding for 8bit computers were so hard that one Atari 800XL (8bit) game developer could move out of gaming business (because of distributor) and could start to code entire softwar
so (Score:2)
Where do you put the 5.25 in disks?
Where... (Score:2)
Apple saves world from 8-bit nuclear attack (Score:4, Funny)
Despite months of negotiations to get a Commodore 64 emulator approved for the iPhone, Apple has pulled the application after just two days [today.com] after a hack was found that enables the BASIC interpreter.
“Anything capable of allowing programming — any programming — could be a security risk to the iPhone and its users,” said Apple in a statement to the Library of Congress on copyright. “As such, it is absolutely vital for the safety of the nation that we vet every single application and collect 30% on each one.”
Apple software reviewers, who are generally moonlighting from day jobs as TSA airport security policy writers, fear a wave of 1980s-style “hackers” using the iPhone to “dial” into NASA or National Security Agency computers using the accompanying 300-Baud Acoustic-Coupled Modem application. “We had our suspicions when the app lit the user’s face from below in just the right shade of green to show off their cheekbones really photogenically.”
Reviewers were particularly concerned that the BASIC interpreter was originally written by Microsoft. “Of course, their security is famously terrible,” said one reviewer in a break from torturing kittens. “We’d probably get a Commodore 64 virus. And their sense of aesthetics! No way Steve would ever let that through.”
A similar Commodore 64 emulator that gives ten cents to AT&T every time a user runs a game has passed approval in two days.
“A strange phone,” said NSA correspondent “WOPR.” “The only winning move is not to buy.”
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Indeed, if true, that would be a GPL violation. Distribution upon request is acceptable, provided section (3) of the GPL is met, which provides the option:
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Just FYI, jackass (make that "stupid", or perhaps, "special" jackass), the reason this is a story isn't because there's a C64 emulator for the iPhone. Rather, it's a story because Apple pulled it from their app store because you could run a BASIC interpreter on it, and only allowed it back on the app store after the interpreter was pulled.
I mean, jebus, is it so much to ask that you just read the "stupid" article summary?
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If you'd bother to read into the history of this, you'd understand why it's news-worthy. It was accepted by Apple, then pulled down awhile ago, due to "breaking the agreement," which caused the media to pick it up regarding if Apple should be allowed this level of control and what not. So the program isn't what's news, the fact that they were able to get around Apple is. If you'd bothered to have read the articles and a little bit of the history, you'd know that. Then again, it's typical for you Apple b
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Apple, that's what. It seems they will refuse any alternative to running code on the device except through their app store, and that's unlikely to change. I think there's a brainfuck interpreter though, so severely crippled languages can slip through.
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Yeah, everyone remembers POKE8675,309 - this clears the dialing register and renders the phone useless.
Bozo.