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Comments: 144 +- Games: US Air Force Buying Another 2,200 PS3s on Wednesday November 25, @04:02AM
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by
Soulskill
on Wednesday November 25, @04:02AM
from the quick-who-knows-a-good-ps3-flight-sim dept.
from the quick-who-knows-a-good-ps3-flight-sim dept.
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linux
bleedingpegasus sends word that the US Air Force will be grabbing up 2,200 new PlayStation 3 consoles for research into supercomputing. They already have a cluster made from 336 of the old-style (non-Slim) consoles, which they've used for a variety of purposes, including "processing multiple radar images into higher resolution composite images (known as synthetic aperture radar image formation), high-def video processing, and 'neuromorphic computing.'" According to the Justification Review Document (DOC), "Once the hardware configuration is implemented, software code will be developed in-house for cluster implementation utilizing a Linux-based operating software."
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Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe someone should tell them the new ones don't run Linux.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Its the Air Force, it'd be an Airwolf cluster.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
More like an Airwolf Cluster Bomb.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
They already know they don't run Linux, they just to play Uncharted 2 and Demon's Souls.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That's a genuinely good point, I wonder if Sony would help them out on this or if they are getting the old one or what?
I don't have much of a use for linux on mine TBH, it was far too goddamn slow (and I'm no linux guru) it really does need 1gb or more of ram, then she'd be fine.
That being said, sucks for researchers who wanted this.
Re: (Score:2)
I think they want some of these [ibm.com] really.
Well, I wouldn't mind one or two to play with.
(For those not interested in following the link, it's a blade style pizza-box server with dual (next-gen)Cell and up to 32GB of RAM)
Not much stopping them really (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if the cost of the above was in the lower 8-digit range without the machines included, which I really doubt, it'd likely be cheaper to source these machines than it would be to develop your own hybrid compute node and software for it (or nVidia's crazy-expensive, less mature solution).
Sony doesn't support Linux on these machines, which makes it practically impossible for the home user to boot Linux on them. (Well, tbh, 'improbable', look at how much reverse engineering has happened with the GameCube & Wii). But for someone with deep enough pockets, like say a government agency, it's almost trivial.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony is not an American company, but I'm sure they were more than happy offer up a boot loader considering how big a customer the the US government could become if they were given a little courtesy. I doubt the would have to resort to threats.
As to the budget, it is not meaningless. They can be shut down without a proper budget, unless you missed the California meltdown, and all of the drama when it came to funding our troops. Budget and government are always very real hurdles.
I think it's more likely that
Federal Govt Shutdown Is Highly Unlikely (Score:3, Interesting)
You're talking about the federal government and, technically, you're right. About every decade-and-a-half or so, Congress gets the budget so fouled up that the President refuses to sign a continuing order to keep the government working. At that point, the government technically stops. All non-essential person
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If the budget really isn't in question, wouldn't they be looking into the blade server version of the cell processor, you know, the one that powers a good many of the supercomputers on the top500 list? As it is, this is PURELY a budget decision. Playstation 3 units at $300 per cpu node beats the HELL out of $1000-2000 or more per node for the conventional computing version. Add to that the fact that Sony still takes a loss on every PS3 unit that goes out the door, meaning it's basically a Sony subsidized
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I just had a scary thought of instead of using linux, they just program a "UAV flight game" and leave them in various Air Force recreation centers.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wow (Score:4, Informative)
Did we read the proposal linked from the article? It specifies PlayStation 3 model CECHP01 which does, indeed, run Linux. I wondered, though, how successful they are going to be at finding 2,200 units. Distributors are running out of new/old stock of this model, as many compute cluster builders are trying to get them before they're all gone.
Here is the proposal for those who didn't actually bother to RFA:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=bac60f8808fa1e221597573901a7cd6b&tab=core&_cview=1&cck=1&au=&ck= [fbo.gov]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Then, they'll bring that capability to the masses as another "lol codmw2 suxx on pc give us DS" Airman
They want a DS port of codmw2?!
Hmmm.... I'd buy that!
Re:Wow (Score:4, Funny)
So. Just in time for Xmas. The Airforce of the United States is depriving children of consoles at the peak of season?
That's 2,200 children who will wake up, sad and dissapointed - with a boxing day that brings only an electric train set, or an iPod touch.
I weep for the dead children in Afghanistan and the empty stockings of children on the American home front.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Sony deserves the moan though. Surely as time passes and parts get cheaper because they are still buying them in quantity the costs lower themselves. Sony (the arseholes) shouldn't need to keep taking parts out of their boxen and then selling them for the same price.
DRM and this. Remind me why we bother with Sony at all?
Interesting (Score:2)
Loss for Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since Sony's strategy (like Microsoft's) is to sell the consoles below production costs and make money on the games I guess that they are now pretty angry about organizations buying PS3s solely for computing...
Re:Loss for Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is only true for the start of a console cycle. By this point, Sony and MS should at worst be breaking even on console sales and probably having a bit of profit. Component prices fall dramatically over the course of the typical 5-year console cycle.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Except that Sony is not selling them below production costs. It costs them about $250 apiece to produce.
Also, if Sony wanted to be angry, "now" is too late already, because the Pande Group (home and founders of Folding@Home) has bought thousands of PS3s for running their protein folding algorithms.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
[Citation Needed] "Except that Sony is not selling them below production costs. It costs them about $250 apiece to produce."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
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And yet not one of these Links is based in fact. They are all best guesses.
Just because something sounds good doesn't make it fact.
The FACT is that Sony doesn't release their Production costs and never has. They could be getting substantial savings in bulk (or not). Quoting someones best guess isn't good enough and shouldn't be presented as fact.
Re: (Score:2)
Ahhh, but Sony sold them at government rates [thefreelibrary.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Besides, who knows what price they're actually paying? As a previous poster pointed out, current retail PS3'
In the future... (Score:2, Interesting)
...processing power will be purchased in units of physical volume.
These units will be named something clever. They will come in different flavors.
They will be designed as components; primarily used to comprise a greater whole.
Re: (Score:2)
(Score:®, Possibly Crazy)
They are actually... (Score:2)
Cell processor (Score:3, Insightful)
We keep hearing these stories, and the reason is that the Cell processor is awesome for this type of work.
Are we still at the point where we can't get hold of Cell processors for machines specifically designed for this sort of task? Isn't the PS3 a rather inefficient way of doing this rather than a purpose built system or grid of systems, or does it come down to cost in that a purpose built system would just cost far more than a bunch of PS3s? 2200 PS3s is still going to cost, what, half a million?
Presumably it's not because they use the GPU as well because AFAIK Linux on the PS3 doesn't allow access to use the graphics card, or are they getting custom PS3s?
There does certainly seem a big market for Cell systems so the future of Cell certainly seems promising in this respect.
Re:Cell processor (Score:4, Informative)
Are we still at the point where we can't get hold of Cell processors for machines specifically designed for this sort of task?
I haven't checked the details yet, but I was told that IBM QS21 [ibm.com] is Cell based blade system
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Since most academic research groups are not overly flush with cash, the authors put these results in terms that someone holding the purse strings would understand. It terms of computing power per cost, the PS3 delivers 50,000 LUPS/dollar, the super high performance IBM QS20/QS21 runs at 3500 LUPS/dollar, while a quadcore desktop machine is capable of putting out 17,000 LUPS/dollar.
However, there seems to be the issue with the memory though:
The researchers point out that LB simulations take a large amount of RAM and, when moving to a three-dimensional simulation, the amount of RAM will become very important. Since the PS3 has only 256 MB of RAM, even moderately sized 3D grids could end up being written and read into swap memory, which would be a significant performance bottleneck.
Re:Cell processor (Score:5, Insightful)
They would buy Cell processors, but then then it would take an year and a half for the papers to be processed, six month for IBM and Dep.Def. to spec the systems, and about two years while competitors contest the order ... everything costing about 10 times as much for one half of the computing power, and would not be able to run much else besides floating point calculations.
BTW, has anybody tried DwarfFortress on a PS3 ?
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
AFAIK DF needs at least 512 MB of RAM, while the PS3 has only 256.
Re: (Score:2)
DF also requires patience, luck, and a penchant for dealing with elephants.
Re:Cell processor (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Didn't you hear? IBM have effectively killed the Cell.
End of the line for IBM's Cell
IBM has revealed that the Cell processor line is an evolutionary dead-end. Some of the ideas behind it will live on, but the Cell family itself will not
Ars Technica [arstechnica.com]
any PS3 will do... (Score:2)
The non-slim PS3s could run linux, but it was crippled you couldn't access the RSX directly. I'd say that these PS3s would be cheap slim models. At the very least, the USAF would have PS3 dev kits to let them write code that would access the RSX directly (not through some silly hypervisor). They probably even pulled a few strings and got Sony to change the PS3 system software to let them do what they want with the hardware.
Some people have said that Sony must be pissed as they lose money on each sale, but 2
Black Friday Deals! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Black Friday Deals! (Score:4, Funny)
Except the Army?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
SOF got in there the night before.
Amazing! (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Because at this scale, buying mass market complete systems is much cheaper because of the economies of scale. Parts sold as spares and replacement are priced much higher than complete systems.
Getting 2.200 customer computers you mean? (Score:2)
More expensive, and if you need to replace a PS3, simply go to any electronics store, replace a custom part for a custom PC...
It is cheaper and more reliable and been tested already so you know it works.
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Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
not for PsyOps