Microsoft Seeks Patent On Shaming Fat Gamers 553
theodp writes "A newly disclosed Microsoft patent application — Avatar Individualized by Physical Characteristic — takes aim at fat people, proposing to generate fat avatars in gaming environments for individuals whose health records indicate they're overweight, limiting their game play, and even banning them. From the patent application: 'An undesirable body weight could be reflected in an overweight or underweight appearance for the avatar. Only requisite health levels are allowed to compete in a certain competition level. A dedicated gamer could exercise for a period of time until his health indicator gadget shows a sufficiently high health/health credit in order to allow reentering the avatar environment.' Linking one's gaming avatar to one's physique, explains Microsoft, will produce healthy and virtuous behaviors in individuals. Microsoft also proposes shaping gaming experiences by using 'psychological and demographic information such as education level, geographic location, age, sex, intelligence quotient, socioeconomic class, occupation, marital/relationship status, religious belief, political affiliation, etc.'"
Digital medical records (Score:5, Funny)
So THAT's why we're going to have digital medical records...
Re:Digital medical records (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Digital medical records (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to think this until I realized that I was paying Blizzard for the simulated experience of waiting for public transportation.
I could get a more immersive experience by putting on a troll mask and riding the subway. There are even some dialects of Chinese that sound a little like murloc. On the other hand I'd love for my IRL military training to count in call of duty.
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I'd love to see someone in combat running around hopping like a rabbit wielding akimbo style shotguns, I'm sure that guy would make it home.
Re:Digital medical records (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand I'd love for my IRL military training to count in call of duty.
Try Operation Flashpoint. I played that with 3 of my friends (CoOp) and we struggled, replaying some missions over 7 times. Then we exchanged one of the players for an active Finnish Army Medic and blasted thru the game with only one casaulty.
Re:Digital medical records (Score:5, Informative)
Well, I used Wii Fit to level up my rig -- I lost 20 pounds in the first two months while adding a significant amount of mass onto my arms and shoulders.
I'm now at about 165 pounds. My peak weight 10 years ago was about 250.
I note that Mario Kart uses your Mii info to determine what weight class you race in once you unlock yourself. That's probably enough prior art to invalidate this patent.
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Man, someone needs to make a real-life D&D character sheet generator. Take I.Q., body fat, muscle mass, BMI, etc. into account and roll stats from that.
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Actually, if you know body fat and muscle mass, BMI is kinda useless. BMI is used to estimate how 'fat' you are (so I guess it tries to predict your body fat), but having a lot of muscle will give you a high BMI even if you are not fat. Now I'm not one of them BMI-haters, I believe it is quite useful for the average person to give an indication of how healthy their weight is, but if you have better data (body fat and muscle mass) by all means ignore BMI.
Re:Digital medical records (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, no, it wasn't games. I worked in a mall while I was in my first year at College. For lunch, I'd often have a donair, poutine, and a orange julius. For snacks, I'd get a pack of bars from the chocolatier. I never cared enough about my appearance to work out or restrict my diet in any way. I got basically no meaningful exercise, even though I thought that I did.
My wife (I can't remember if she was my girlfriend or fiancee at the time) won a prize that included 2 bikes. I biked to class one day, not realizing just how terribly out of shape I was. It took some time, since I had to stop and take breaks. (My rule was that I could take breaks, but I couldn't walk my bike.) I kept biking, and kept biking, and went down to about 185. The extra effort from the Wii has kept me at 165 for the last year and a half (It's starting to drop again from spin classes)
Interestingly enough, if I'd spent my money on video games, I'd never have gained the weight in the first place. I'd be nowhere near as strong as I am now, though -- thanks to the biking, I have superior lower body strength; thanks to the excess weight, I have resilient tendons and good skeletal structure.
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Or perhaps why it will succeed.
I tied with you for most contentless post.
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Face it the patent is disgusting, "The physiological data can be gleaned from a third party health data collection repository, a healthcare smart card, a real-time physiological sensor" it is so mind bogglingly privacy invasive that truly only M$ could have come up with it, especially for that line alone.
Why is M$ going out of it's way to make itself look stupid, clumsy and downright evil. There seems to be this major disconnect going on in Redmond between what they think is acceptable and what the rest
Re:Digital medical records (Score:5, Insightful)
funny you should mention that. When I read the summary my main response was something along the lines of it being impossible to implement even if the stupid patent was approved simply because:
NO GOD DAMNED GAME COMPANY SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACCESS YOUR FUCKING MEDICAL RECORDS TO FUCK WITH YOUR GAMING TO BEGIN WITH. (For ANY reason really.)
Re:Digital medical records (Score:5, Funny)
Why do you say that, fatty?
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Tis a slippery slope down to MegaInsCorp refuses to let you buy that bag of Doritos. The car didn't start as the CORP tells me I need to lose a few pounds.
*cough* HIPAA (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, I am very cynical of HIPAA. It has never protected me from health care providers making disclosures to third parties when I wanted (and was entitled to) privacy, and it just adds inconvenience when I want to do simple things like having a family member pick up one of my prescriptions ("Oh my god! We could never allow that, even if we had written authorization on file! Think of your privacy!").
So... what did HIPAA accomplish? Well, now when I go to a pharmacy, they force me to sign a HIPAA disclosure/waiver before they will fulfill my prescriptions. What does this disclosure say? Stuff along the lines of "here is our policy on how we will violate your privacy when we feel like it. Don't you feel better knowing?". Of course, I could choose not to sign, but then they won't fill my prescriptions. Ah, being presented with a Hobson's choice [wikipedia.org] over medical necessities always warms my heart about the human spirit.
"Blessed are the coercers, for surely they will fuck you over while smiling at you."
Anyway, to my point: yes, you are protected by HIPAA. However, my expectation is that they will just circumvent it by a click-through EULA waiver. No waiver, no play. There you go. Hobson would be proud.
Re:*cough* HIPAA (Score:5, Informative)
Re:*cough* HIPAA (Score:5, Informative)
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I'm just going to leave this here...
http://www.healthvault.com/ [healthvault.com]
This is by Microsoft.
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My reaction was exactly the same when I saw that website. Why should I willingly enter all my medical data on any webpage, let alone one that is run by Microsoft?
It's a Free Market (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:5, Funny)
I can just imagine the slogan: "Escape your depressing real life into a matching world!"
Logging on...
"Our records show that you are an overweight high-school educated 36-year old mail in Akron, Ohio with below-average IQ, part-time employment at a Wal-Mart with an annual take-home of $16k who is a single Baptist Republican."
Creating avatar... done.
"Congratulations! Explore our virtual world with your new avatar -- an overweight, high-school educated 36-year old male with below-average IQ."
Your avatar will spawn in: Virtual Akron Ohio
You start with the following items: Bible, Pat Robertson DVD, "Going Rogue" by Sarah Palin
You start with: 0 gold
You earn: 7 gold per hour
For doing the following task: Checking groceries at the Virtual Akron Wal-Mart.
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And you spend your spare time... playing a game as a virtual virtual wal-mart stocker.
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:5, Funny)
You earn: 7 gold per hour
For doing the following task: Checking groceries at the Virtual Akron Wal-Mart.
Not for long. I'm certain there are Chinese gamers who will do it for half that much.
Welcome to the long term unemployed quest!
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:5, Funny)
I, on the other hand, am a 6'6" tall, bulging muscles on skeleton type of guy who has any woman I desire at any time, even when fighting off foes, a superb intellect and the sun shines out of my arse (ass for you yanks).
Now where's my avatar?
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:5, Funny)
According to your medical records, you are a compulsive liar. In order to protect the children, you will not be able to access our online community. If you persist in attempting to register, the FBI will be notified.
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:4, Funny)
I, on the other hand, am a 6'6" tall, bulging muscles on skeleton type of guy who has any woman I desire at any time, even when fighting off foes, a superb intellect and the sun shines out of my arse (ass for you yanks).
Now where's my avatar?
Your avatar request is fully noted and your order parameters and pre-ship details appear below.
Many good lucks to you in your gaming! /snappy SALUTE!
Sincerely yours,
Orders@Aurora_Avatars.com
Order fulfillment details:
1. You are exceptionally well-built and can get laid all the time by any woman you desire.
2. Avatar Analysis Wizard results indicate that there are not enough women you desire to lay, and would prefer to fill your time role-playing in a game.
3. Your avatar is one with a chiseled face, piercing eyes, skin colored a near-perfect, brushed-metal bronze, a shock of thick, yet somehow simultaneously lithe and responsive, magnificent mane of hair - in short, nearly possessing the good looks of an Auroran (such as the the real-life appearance of the president and founder of Aurora Avatars).
4 The most outstanding feature of your new avatar is the letter on your forehead in hyper-glow, yellow-green-white, that eerily seems to almost float, retaining its holographic-like legibility regardless of how you turn your head.
(** Copyright claimed by me, as creator, for Aurora Avatars and all related trade names, and product descriptions)
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Gee... I'm a Southern Baptist (who regularly attend church, Creationist, etc...), however; I neither care for Pat Robertson nor Sarah Palin.
In that case, you'll just have to evolve a sense of humour.
Oh, sorry.
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:4, Funny)
Unless during your character's off-hours, you sign them up for this service to go play games. Wherein the character's character would then go work at the Virtual Virtual Akron Wal-Mart...
Re:It's a Free Market (Score:5, Insightful)
I seriously think I would be busting a gut laughing no matter who came out with it.
So... lets just forget all about HPAA or whatever other health record privacy regulations you may be subject to. Lets just assume they can get around all that in a reasonable way.... and figure out how to get all the data that they want from health records....
So now, I can diet all I want, but my avatar wont get skinnier until I go in for a checkup? Will my insurance be expected to cover extra checkups to keep my avatar current?
Wouldn't people who are overweight, just.... not play the game. It seems a lot easier. Especially since, there are many other games that wont force them into a suck gaming experience.
This smacks to me of the drug war. "Look kids, drugs are bad, because if you do them, we will throw you in jail". That doesn't make drugs bad, it makes you a dick. Its "I don't approve of your condition and the negative impacts that it has on your life, so I am goin gto impose new negative impacts to help you".
Its exactly the sort of attitude that you resent when your friends and family take it with you... and you expect anyone is going to put up with it from Sony?
ooh, fun! a patent to tattoo "undesireables." (Score:5, Funny)
prior art exists, now Ballmer has to grow a stupid mustasche, chew carpets, and march on Poland.
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prior art exists, now Ballmer has to chew carpets.
Hitler was a lesbian?
Wow (Score:2)
I wouldn't piss off this fat kid... he has a power glove AND a Max controller. TURBO'S, FTW!
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I loved controlling the duck while my little sister was shooting. ;) I'd usually hide it in the tree.
Cool, the corporate nanny state. (Score:2)
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Culture has always done this. It's part of being human.
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Seriously I hate people who tell people how to live their lives.
Do these people have all the problems in their lives solved to the point where they feel the need to lecture others?
Do they have all their bills paid? Perfect Driving Record? Perfect Health? Perfect Everything?
Live and let live, let sleeping dogs lie, etc, etc, etc
Re:Cool, the corporate nanny state. (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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My guess would be that they want this for the XBox 360 to go along with Project Natal.
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Brilliant (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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MS isn't losing money on Vista. They are just charging for Vista SP3, AKA Windows 7.
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HA! (Score:4, Funny)
Ha! I have been shaming and banning fat people for years now. Where is my patent?
You think this doesn't effect you (Score:5, Insightful)
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But that's my favourite past time!
ASL? ;) 18/f/So-Cal!
Re:You think this doesn't effect you (Score:5, Funny)
If Microsoft starts actually checking players appearance and gender
It’s okay... you can fool it with a picture of a vagina.
Oh Noes (Score:2)
Patent Office (Score:2)
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With the Patent Office, like most government agencies, any money taken in goes to the general pool. They can't use the extra money from frivolous patent applications to hire more/better examiners.
So yes, every frivolous patent takes resources away from the important work.
Re:Patent Office (Score:4, Insightful)
Thats right. Nothing says progress like granting a extortionate monopoly on a drug that could save millions, if only they could afford it.
Re:Patent Office (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. We just assume that taking away the multimillion-dollar monopoly incentive won't have any effect on pharmaceutical developments and the drugs available (outside of patents) for your children's generation, or even your generation when you retire in 40 years. No effect whatsoever.
I mean, come on, dude, is a little bit of a balanced perspective on a nuanced issue too much to ask?
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you can't Patent a drug - only the process to manufacture it (which has to be FDA approved too).
the reason you wait for generic drugs is that even after a drug has passed the FDA if you where to make it using a different process then you would still have to go through FDA approval for it - might as well come up with something different.
So they want discrimatory features into games... (Score:2)
...How appalling
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Sometimes patents like this one can serve the public interest merely by reducing the likelihood of bad ideas like this one from being put into general use through fines and legal action.
This won't work (Score:2)
A game would have to be pretty compelling otherwise to make the risk of being banned for poor health do anything other than dissuade larger gamers from playing all together.
Most likely it will reduce the number of people playing any game with this technology in favor of competitor's games and as such is pretty much doomed to fail.
From TFA: (Score:5, Informative)
As someone who worked in the healthcare industry for a number of years, this seems like a HIPAA violation lawsuit waiting to happen.
Nah (Score:3, Insightful)
All your HIPAA rights are waived in the TOS. Did you click 'I agree'?
WTF??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Where, exactly, does Microsoft think it's going to get this stuff from? The summary actually makes reference to health records.
Heck, I'm not sure most government agencies should have access to most of that information. Microsoft sure as fsck has no business with it.
Welcome to the dystopian future, fat boy. This is actually kind of scary.
Cheers
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well one thing i could see them pushing this patent onto would be the use of VR for post rehab counculing.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/07/16/db.secondlifetherapy/index.html [cnn.com]
the rehab unit would have access to the health records and we can assume consent (in the fine print) to do this as a way of keeping people straight and not delusional.
It sounds stupid - but so does Avatars in rehab - or Dances with Smurfs.
But this isn't completely point less as if tweeter and Facebook hasn't taught us already too many peo
Brain-dead (Score:2)
The precise point of video games is to be some other than yourself for awhile. If they start restricting people based on their physical appearance, how long until we start using other biometric data? The major appeal of video games is shattered when we lose that... who wants to play a video game as themselves?
Exercise stimulates endorphins (Score:4, Insightful)
Eventually, I enjoy the exercise more than video games. I stop buying new games, and EA/Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo go out of business, and thousands of people lose their jobs.
Thanks a LOT, Microsoft!!
Pot, kettle, black. (Score:5, Funny)
Double-take (Score:2)
Logon Process
1. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del
2. Enter Logon ID and password
3. Step on the scale
4. If weigh is a healthy value, process logon; if not, recommend a gym membership (all in the name of keeping employer-paid health insurance costs down).
NOOO (Score:2)
Can I ? (Score:3, Funny)
Can I be the first to heap scorn on the fat kid in the photo.
You fat bastard, you fat bastard, you ate all the pie !
(And a bucket of chicken too by the look of it).
Why do people allow their kids to turn into such bloaters ? And don't give me any of that "oh it's genetic crap". There is no DNA strand that codes for "being a fat little piggy who Mommy overfeeds in the hope you'll amount to something more than your Father when you grow up".
I blame Mario ... come on, he eats pizza all day and has a right paunch on him too ... what kind of a roll model is that ? (Note the deliberate misspelling of roll, thats a pune or play on words, that is). And Sonic too, I mean he was so fat, after 5 seconds of running he starting rolling head over heels.
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Suppresses sensations of fullness which would normally prevent overeating. In the United States the stuff is in EVERYTHING that would normally contain natural sugar. It has also been linked to diabetese or at least the same symptoms of diabetese.
Profit Margins - not so much (Score:2, Interesting)
Imagine how this will work.
Overweight people will be banned from a game if they don't 'get fit'. Those who really want to play will then 'get to it' and get in shape.
Of course with all that exercise and new activity they are participating in will slowly bring them to realize there is something else to life then online avatar based games (with very shallow user access requirements). Slowly they will turn away from such games and begin doing things that are more active and fit in with their new health consci
Probably trying to avoid frivolous lawsuits (Score:2, Interesting)
Are they going to grade on a sliding scale? (Score:2)
Does it visualize cranial-rectum inversions? (Score:2)
I had never thought that anyone would patent business suicide.
Way to go Microsoft!
Can't wait to see Balmers avatar running around with his head stuck up his backside, that's going to be a total roflmao moment.
I promise to take screenshots.
Not a totally bad idea (Score:2)
You want to patent something useful... (Score:4, Interesting)
You have to insure that the fitness measurements of an individual actually belong to the individual. Haven't read their patent, but I can't see how a game can reasonably do this without some sort of biometric keys.
And what are they going to do about people with medical conditions that might preclude exercise or normal weight? Are they really going to kick people off off the game with cancer because they have no control over their water retention?
All in all, this is a remarkably dumb idea.
It might be better suited for a dating site, using some mechanism to insure that the Avatar for an individual accurately represented basic physical aspects of an individual while preserving mostly their anonymity. Maybe use a Video camera plus some other hardware to scan the individual both to identify them upon logging in and updating their avatar to reflect any changes to their weight/height/BMI/hairline etc.?
Please consider this *publishing* of this idea, and as a result *invalidating any patent* that might build off this stupid Microsoft idea.
Its an american problem again. (Score:5, Interesting)
you and your obsessions. fat people are not discriminated against or humiliated in any way in my country. the country is turkey. and i have never yet seen any other country nearby, leave aside any european countries in which overweight people were ridiculed, belittled, bullied or discriminated against in any respect.
i very much have the idea that you people are so obsessed with your own socioeconomical circumstances, and so many bullshit propaganda being fed into you that you fail to see a world outside yours with different ideas and inclinations exist.
Re:Its an american problem again. (Score:4, Insightful)
You mean the reason why Europe has fewer fat people is because europeans don't treat the obese like fucking monsters? No way! Thats crazy talk.
I have long believed that is the American obsession with image and sexuality that has aggravated the problem of obesity. Nearly every 'good' cure to obesity (omitting dangerous diet pills or starvation diets) involves social interaction of some kind. Lampooning people who suffer from obesity only furthers their isolation and in no way is productive towards recovery.
I was an overweight, acne-ridden, isolated kid all through middle school - but it was the social interactions I made through multiplayer gaming on the internet (specifically, MUDS - yeah... mega dork) that gave me the confidence to approach people in real life (high school), and later lose weight with their encouragement (senior year).
Also, isn't there a beauty to anonymity? Do we really need to see everyone's physical appearance to judge if we want to kill some mobs and grab some lootz with them? I personally would prefer not to. If I'm looking for women, I go to a supermarket, mall, or bar. On the net, my intent is otherwise focused, and I don't need to see what my digital comrade looks like to figure out if I'm having a good time playing my game. That much is usually implied.
What about disibilities? (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the most touching things I ever had on Xbox Live was when I received a message I from a friend who always seemed to be on, but not in the previous 2 weeks. The message was from his mother thanking me, and everyone on his friends list for being his friend and telling us he had passed away. She continued to tell us he had Downs Syndrome, and at 21 years of age had passed away from complications of it. She told us that we, his virtual friends were the only friends he really seemed to have, because we didn't know about, or judge him because of his condition.
Would this system have deprived him of the one joy he had in his life because he couldn't run the hundred meter dash, or didn't match up with some other physical standard?
Butter Overflow Error (Score:4, Funny)
You computer will now display the Blueberry Ice Cream of Death.....
Save the Children + Patent = Monopoly (Score:4, Insightful)
1. "Everyone" "knows" that video games are unhealthy and are the reason why kids are fat nowadays.
2. Tell the politicians that you've developed a way for video games to help prevent kids from getting fat.
3. Tell the parents that you've developed a way for their computer/video games to *automatically" help prevent their kids from getting fat.
4. Get a "Save the children!" law passed requiring that this Anti-Fat-Kid-Rights-Management software be mandatory.
5. You have a patent on the Anti-Fat-Kids-Rights-Management idea.
6. Profit from the monopoly.
I can't wait (Score:4, Funny)
to see Stephen Hawking's avatar. I wonder if he gets a free mount.
April 1st come early (Score:3)
But... (Score:4, Funny)
But Ballmer is damn fat as well. Why stop at games? They should deny access to all services for fat people, starting with HIM.
It's MS so who cares, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to wonder what stake Microsoft has in teen suicide and school shootings that they'd think this is a good idea. A bit of a leap you say? Let me lay it out for you.
Fat kid gets home from school, decides to play some games to put the bullshit he had to deal with at school behind him... Too bad his avatar is fat too! No escape from the ridicule and stupid crap! Or even worse, the same people who harass him at school start harassing him online, and then start harassing him at school ABOUT his fat avatar! BONUS POINTS!
So, depending on the kid's psychological makeup there are three possible outcomes:
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Isn't that what the Scientologists do? ;-)
Cheers
Re:Prior art: Nintendo Wii Fit (Score:4, Funny)
Only if you're morbidly obtuse.
Re:Prior art: Nintendo Wii Fit (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, I am pretty sure those two things are universally exclusive.
Re:Prior art: Nintendo Wii Fit (Score:5, Funny)
Welcome to the Internet. I can see that this is your first time here.
There is so much for you to see and wish to unsee.
Re:Prior art: Nintendo Wii Fit (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prior art: Nintendo Wii Fit (Score:5, Insightful)
Maya Anjelou once gave a great statement on this concept. She said (among other things [thinkexist.com]) "The real difficulty is to overcome how you think about yourself."
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Why don’t you send out cease-and-desist letters to all the other websites that are using it [tineye.com]?
Re:Hope you have permission for that photo -- poor (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope that the photo of the overweight dressed with Nintendo garb is from someone you know, and that they gave permission for you to humiliate them in front of thousands of other people.
What makes you think the picture is humiliating?
If you think the picture is humiliating, aren't you the problem?
If we all thought there was nothing wrong with the picture, then there wouldn't be anything humiliating about it, would there?
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Actually, the kid in the picture is my younger brother. The picture was taken 15 to 17 years ago. One of his friends must have scanned it and put it online somewhere.
He doesn't look like that today. He started a weight lifting regimen about 10 years ago and he is probably in much better shape than most of the people making fun of this picture online.
Re:nazi-like (Score:4, Funny)
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Does not Wii Fit already do this?
No. It does not.
Proposing to generate fat avatars in gaming environments for individuals whose health records indicate they're overweight, limiting their game play, and even banning them
The Wii Fit does not make your avatar appear bigger or smaller than how you set it. The closest thing that comes close to any kind of discrimination is it making constructive criticism on how to improve your health, not to shame you.
Microsoft is trying to shift the blame of "Video games making people fat" by taking all the social stigma of the real world against obesity and putting it into their games.