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Comments: 303 + - Games: Why Has No One Made a Great Gaming Phone? on Monday February 01, @02:55PM
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andylim writes "According to Engadget, John Koller, Sony's head of PlayStation marketing, recently said that 'Apple's entrance into the portable gaming space has been a net positive for Sony. When people want a deeper, richer console, they start playing on a PSP.' What's odd though is that everyone knows that the mobile phone gaming market is a huge and yet neither Sony nor Nintendo has made a gaming phone yet. Recombu.com thinks that Nokia could enter the space with PSP-like devices and it has come up with a concept phone called the Ovi Orion, which would bridge the gap between phone and console, 'If the iPhone is Wii, then Ovi Orion would be Xbox and offer Xbox Live style features. A serious gaming phone for serious gamers.'"
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Because (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Because (Score:4, Interesting)
This is why Sony nor Nintendo should be looking to create a gaming phone, they should be looking to create PSP/DS with phone capabilities. Otherwise it's just going to fail.
Parent
The problem with gaming phones (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why Sony nor Nintendo should be looking to create a gaming phone, they should be looking to create PSP/DS with phone capabilities. Otherwise it's just going to fail.
Actually, I really don't think so. The time will come where what you say is correct, but I believe now is not the time. Here's why.
Basically, both phones and portable game systems are, in terms of their hardware and software, and the expectations of the users, continually evolving. However, I think phones are still evolving faster than game systems. New telephony technologies continue to be rolled out, network coverage in the US is still inconsistent between carriers and spotty in some places, and the iPhone, which is the item by which most people have set their standards and expectations for a high-end phone, is at present just a few years old - and has already gone through a couple revisions. Compare this to Nintendo DS and Sony PSP: DS has gone through two major hardware revisions in five years, and only the most recent of those changed the hardware specs significantly. The situation for the PSP is similar: roughly the same amount of time, and a similar amount of change to the platform over time.
I think that combining a phone with a gaming device at this time would probably still be a bad idea. Turning a phone into a game platform involves more than adding game controls to it - it means turning it into a platform stable enough that players and game publishers will be willing to invest themselves in it. Game platforms stay the same for years so that publishers can make money on software. Phones, at present anyway, are still caught up in a mad rush to one-up one another. A game machine with phone capabilities could be good now, but a couple years down the road its capabilities as a phone would practically be a joke. This doesn't preclude establishing a stable game system as a subset of a particular phone line's capabilities - but then the "game platform" games would be inferior to the "phone native" games or something like that...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Because (Score:5, Funny)
And GAMING phones are for SIDE TALKING.
This may be why they never quite caught on.
Parent
Re:Because (Score:5, Interesting)
Specifically, they're designed for different interaction methods. A phone is meant to be used in one hand (zero, for handsfree), and held to the head (or in a pocket for handsfree). A gaming controller is meant to be held in two hands for maximum expressivness. A two-handed interface works best when the hands are relatively fare apart, meaning a set of controls on each end of a "stick" device, implying a horizontal interface. A one-handed device, or any device with a screen in general, is meant to be used vertically, so the screen is as far from the hands as possible, for maximum visibility.
Touch-screen interfaces are sub-optimal two, since you end up obscruring the display by using it.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There's also the issue of contracts.
If you're a "serious gamer" are you going to be happy being locked into your device for two years? No? Are you going to be happy paying a 100%+ premium for a contract free device to cover the cell phone company tax?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed. And where people tend to upgrade their phones more or less as often as they change underwear, a portable gaming console will have to last longer simply because of the investment in software people make. Just look at the media cost on the PSP to see why that is.
Besides, the high powered CPU and GPU needed for decent gaming would slurp a phone battery dry too fast, phones these days are expected to last at least a few days between recharging.
Because phones are for TALKING. (Score:3, Insightful)
We knew that were in a bad reception area when my wife bought her phone and so we asked which ones were known for better signal reception. She decided on the cute one instead. Fashion beat out function.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to sound like a fanboy here... But the iPhone even my old one. Is rather decent at gaming. I am not sure what people are expecting for a full gaming phone. It does 3d Display and some 3d games and there are some fun games for it. I myself tend to limit myself to free games for a few minutes a diversion before I go back to work. Even comparing to a PSP and a DS the iPhone can stand up rather well.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The iPhone is totally pants for gaming. I mean, yeah, it's fine for playing chess or a scrabble-clone, but for action games I just don't enjoy it. Games that use the accelerometer are especially atrocious.
Now if someone would create a proper game-controller add-on and games started to support it, then, and only then would the iPhone be a great gaming phone. Though, Apple would probably need to either create an official game controller or establish an API and standards for such an add-on for it to really
Re:Because (Score:5, Interesting)
Why a one-size-fits-all mentality? Why not use your cell phone for calls and texting, and others can use their "phones" for games, calls, texting, surfing, whatever else they want to do with it.
I know people who basically don't use their home PC anymore. Anything they want to do (email, facebook, casual games, watching videos, streaming music), they can do from their smartphone. Not my style, but good for them. I don't think they should be held back just because I only use my phone for calls and the occasional text message.
Parent
Re:Because (Score:4, Insightful)
And browsing is especially good to have on phones. No, I wouldn't use it for basic surfing because it's nowhere as nice as computer, but it has been really helpful in many situations where I wasn't at home or workplace. Or the rare case where I had to look up my ISP's adsl modem settings from the internet as I reset the settings and forgot to do it beforehand.
This is why iPhone "one-size-fits-all" is kind of bad too. Sure it's generally good for everyone, but you don't have the choice to choose like with other manufacturers. Nokia, HTC and others have many models to choose from exactly the one that suits you best.
The usual "phone is just for calling and texting" rant is stupid. People have different needs.
Parent
Re:Because (Score:5, Insightful)
I use my phone for texting, web, facebook, twitter, maps/navigation, ssh, games, exercise/nutrition tracking, barcode scanning, comparison shopping and whatever else takes my fancy. I make an actual voice call maybe once a week, so it's one of the least important features for me (although it does have to work of course).
People are different and have different needs. Although to be honest there's very little chance I'd buy some kind of specialised gaming phone.
Parent
Now your pockets are bulging (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep the cheap phones for making phone calls and the game computers for playing games.
One device for browsing the web, one for playing music, one for watching video, one for playing games, and one for making calls. Now your pockets are bulging, even if they are all tethered over Bluetooth. The only big benefit I can see of having several pocket-size devices is that the cheaper phones don't require a data plan, which means cheaper service if you don't make a lot of calls.
Parent
Re:Now your pockets are bulging (Score:5, Insightful)
Pockets full of devices? I can't see why. Two devices would be perfectly reasonable - one for things that demand connectivity (talk, text, net), and one for the other stuff (games, videos, music). Even if the 'other stuff' has occasional connectivity capabilities to download new music, etc.
When people say phones are for talking, it's not a frivolous argument - they need to be available for talking. Which has two implications:
1) What should happen when you have an incoming call? Do you lose your position in game, etc?
2) The battery needs to stand up to the demands.
As it is, 3G devices struggle to get through a day. It's not going to help matters by gaming on them for an hour or two - pushing the cpu, graphics, display to the limit. If your games console runs out of juice, it's generally less of an issue than if you suddenly can't make or receive calls.
Parent
Re:Now your pockets are bulging (Score:4, Informative)
Phones work perfectly fine for 3-5 days battery
On standby, sure. But start gaming (3-d games, anyway) on them and you'll get 3-5 *hours* of battery life. And no phone that I'm aware of can last 3-5 days on a single charge if you're making five or six hours of calls every day, not to mention if you're an avid texter like my sister.
My iPhone loses half its battery idling overnight, because I have push e-mail enabled. Until that situation is remedied - until I can have push e-mail enabled for 3-5 days without a recharge and still be able to make regular calls during those 3-5 days - phones will not be an ideal platform for gaming.
Note that I merely mean they won't be ideal, not that we shouldn't try :)
Parent
Re:Now your pockets are bulging (Score:4, Funny)
Game is paused and you can normally answer the call. Afterwards you can "alt-tab" back to it (not sure about iPhone, but every other phone is perfectly capable of multitasking).
Pause!
Not a gamer are you?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed, and I think the Sony's trying to save face. After pre-ordering a PSP back in 2005 and starting the largest PSP group on Yahoo Groups [yahoo.com], I sold my PSP after a month with the iPhone 3GS. Larger selection, direct input to developers, visible feedback and ratings from users, an abundance of free "lite" games and most games costing $1-$3 finally put the nail in the coffin for the PSP.
I really can't imagine ever buy
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
preform (?) - a nonsensical word oft used when trying to discredit others.
(From Oxford English Dictionary, 3245 edition)
Re:Because (Score:4, Funny)
humorless (adj) Not remotely funny; not able to appreciate or recognize a funny comment or situation.
e.g. tagno25 is a humorless wanker.
(My dictionary, right now).
Parent
They did (Score:5, Insightful)
There was a gaming phone a few years back. It flopped. No one revisited.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:They did (Score:5, Funny)
There was a gaming phone a few years back. It flopped. No one revisited.
It's a good thing that not everyone has that mindset.
Wilbur Wright: "Wouldn't it be great to build a flying machine?"
Orville Wright: "Did you hear about that guy Otto Lilenthal who tried to make one?"
Wilbur: "No, what happened?"
Orville: "He crashed and died."
Wilbur: "Oh well, then that proves it can't be done ever."
Orville: "Yup, lets get back to making this bicycle and never talk about flying ever again."
Parent
Wouldn't work (Score:2)
We'd get gaming at the cost of losing good phone features.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Wouldn't work (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
On the contrary (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I think a rock would make a better paperweight, and probably costs less too. You should look into that Free Open Source Solution.
Because... (Score:5, Insightful)
The kids who play the games can't afford the service plans or phones themselves...
Most adults have other things to do, or more powerful systems at home to play "serious" games on.
Re:Because... (Score:4, Interesting)
I know a lot of middle aged people who own portable systems. Admittedly, they are usually the parents of kids who own powerful consoles.
I'm one of them, or at least I used to be. I owned a Nintendo DS Lite (Cobalt), and I liked it a lot. I bought it so I'd have something to keep me entertained during my step-son's day long wrestling matches. There's a lot of dead time between rounds. Then I found a lot of the same games were available for my iPod Touch for a fraction of the price. Besides, being "middle-aged" means that I don't really have a whole lot of time to play games anymore anyway--but gaming is going to be great when I retire! So same games for lower price, plus one less device to carry around, and no cartridges made dumping my DS Lite for my iPod a no-brainer. I've found the games on the iPod Touch to be at least as good quality wise as a PS One, which is fine for a middle-aged old school guy like myself.
Parent
Why not go the other way (Score:4, Interesting)
But why not go the other way? Integrate phone capabilities to PSP or DS. It's a lot easier than creating a new platform which can never really live up to those two.
Nokia did already try it, but it lost to PSP and DS. It was semi-popular with guys in my country and at my age, but I didn't really felt like getting one. And there really wasn't any good games.
Is there really a need? (Score:2)
meh. (Score:5, Insightful)
serious gaming? on a mobile device? c'mon. games on a phone are at best, distractions or time killers (babysitters).
the LAST thing I want to do is get heavy into a game and get a fucking call.
Incredibly subjective article (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm sure there are plenty iPhone users out there that believe they have an amazing gaming phone,
heck, even I with my old Nokia and Tetris thought I had a great game phone.
Because .... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can buy a DS/PSP without a freaking multi-year ass-rape contract.
Buying a gaming console should never be a long term financial decision.
Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Clearly I need more caffeine or something. And get off my lawn. Damn, when did I get old?
Sony's scared (Score:3, Interesting)
Phones and Games mix about as well as SPAM and Phad Thai. Really, the only seemless way of doing this is to create a contextual device that changes from one to the other seemlessly... wait... we already have that, it's called the iPhone. And it's the most rapidly growing gaming platform on the market. With titles outselling the PSP about 20:1. Now, it's getting handheld console ports like Broken Sword, Spore, Myst, Super Monkey Ball, and on and on. With capacity and processing power that outdoes the PSP, Sony really should be worried. And they are, but this kind of speak that their using in the above quote reaks of double-talk spawned by latent fear. Basically, they realize they're in trouble, and their trying to make it sound like everyone is jumping on board with the PSP from the iPhone... but where are the numbers? The PSP hasn't had any major sales increases, in fact, I've heard that their numbers are falling. This is all speculation, wishfull thinking, and advertising on Sony's part.
The big hurdle is control. Buttons are always very nice for many kinds of games, though finger-pad is really nice for other things, and stylus is great for other things. Adding a d-pad to a smartphone is going to be either combersomb or unneccessary or both. There are games with extrodinary control systems on the iPhone, and there are games with terrible control systems. Same goes for the PSP. But I honestly don't think control system is going to be a big loss for people when the games are 1/4 of the price, run smoother, and are more portable.
Sony should be scared, and it's fairly clear that they already are.
Lifespan (Score:3, Insightful)
... because the lifespan of a cell phone has been around 2 years so far and no developers wants to invest in building apps for a platform that people throw in the trash every time they switch carriers...
Serious gamers? (Score:3, Informative)
Okay, let me get this straight... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're a company and you're putting out a product, which of these two product markets would you rather be? The Wii (iPhone according to the Ovi Orion article), or the XBox (their supposedly spiffy idea). Hmm... Massively huge gigantic market selling at a profit or Middling market that started out selling as a loss leader. Choices, choices, choices.
Perhaps that simple market comparison itself right there is why no one has bothered again with a "gaming" phone. Heck, even comparing portable gaming units. Which would you want to sell, the DS with it's again, gigantic huge massive casual market? Or the PSP with it's middling "hardcore" market? Now the true gamers most likely have both, I know my household does. But the casual gamer, of which there are a great many more? They've got the DS if they've got one at all.
Re:Okay, let me get this straight... (Score:4, Insightful)
So you're saying that Microsoft has been lying in its quarterly and annual reports to the SEC that show that unit losing millions of dollars since inception?
Parent
It's called a handheld console! Look it up! ;) (Score:3, Insightful)
But I know what you mean.
Don’t worry. Soon mobile phones and handheld consoles will merge (e.g. PSP + N900 style), just like cameras, GPS navigation, music player, USB stick, etc, etc, etc.
I give it 5 years, tops, until they become good.
Remember that Nokia already did make the N-Gage. Which was not great, but a start. (The start is never great. Just as the first iPhone was a true p.o.s. in everything except the cool multi-touch UI.) The point is that it has (already) started, and needs a bit of time to mature, finds its customers, etc.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That was true 5 years ago, but lots has happened. Look at who is getting all the US localization of Cave shmups. The Xbox 360. Gaming doesn't get much more serious than a Cave shmup.
Re:The great irony is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really. Phones and game devices use vastly different technology, and even more vastly different infrastructure. Infrastructure is the most complicated part of making phones. Working out networks, contracts, etc. By comparison, the infrastructure for game devices is a walk in the park. When you make a phone, you're somewhat beholden to the phone companies which hold all the cards. Game hardware manufacturers control their own infrastructures, like XBox Live and Playstation ("home" is it called? I don't have a PS3). Also, the interface designs and hardware functionality is quite different. It's not particularly intuitive to combine a phone with a gaming handheld and not lose a bit of one side in the process. You hold them differently, the speakers locations for each are not ideal for each other, handhelds usually sacrifice some portability for ergonomics, phones must maintain an even smaller form factor. The two are really very different devices. The fact that they have screens and are essentially computers is the only major similarities. The control systems that are typically ideal for handhelds don't really make much sense for a phone. So then you either have tacked-on gaming controls which take up more space than your phone functionality needs, or you sacrifice gaming control to make up for the portability that a phone needs.
That's why contextual control devices like the iPhone are probably the MOST ideal. They're deffinitely not perfect, but they do both things relatively well without sacrificing too much. Now its a up to the game manufacturers to create control systems that are ideal to the non-tactile nature of the device. For instance, I've played a few very playable platformers on the iPhone like Soosiz (which uses large virtual left, right and jump buttons), Bounce On (which utilizes the tilt functionality of the iPhone remarkably well, for control). But on the flip side, Sega's port of Sonic the Hedgehog (which simply places a tiny virtual D-Pad) is almost entirely unplayable. This isn't Apple's fault, it's Sony's fault. Bounce On and Soosiz are both very similar to Sonic, and they play extremely well, so it can be done.
Parent
Re:Not necessary. (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed. Many times, graphics isn't about how advanced your engine is, but how creative you are with it. Still, probably my favorite graphics of all time are Okami, a fairly mid-budget PS2 game that blows away the graphics of most 360 and PS3 titles I see. The creators decided to go in an incredibly artistic direction with their graphics, but did them in sutch a way that they didn't require a lot of horsepower. In fact, the shots of the DS sequel (yes, that's right, DS), is remarkably similar, and the DS is one of the most underpowered devices out there. It's not how advanced your graphical power is, it's what you do with it.
Golden Sun is a dream too.
Parent
Re:Quoted for the truth (Score:4, Insightful)
Different way to look at it: why do people want 50" plasma TV sets? Because they don't want to squint at a 7" or a 13" TV. I find watching a movie on the iPhone is equally disappointing. I can see the idea, I can understand the plot, I can hear the dialog, but I cannot get the experience.
So who wants to "game" on an iPhone? I'd never want to play Bioshock or Portal on the tiny screen. Bioshock would be exactly this scary: *boo*. Portal would be exactly this humorous: *ha ha*.
Different kinds of games such as solitare, sudoku, that kind of puzzle stuff, they're all great on the iPhone, because it's a different type of gaming. In real life nobody buys Scrabble HD Edition, or Wide Screen Edition Triominos. They're not needed. This is just the same thing in reverse.
Parent