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Comments: 143 + - Games: Game Devs Migrating Toward iPhone, Away From Wii on Saturday February 06, @01:59PM
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A new report by Game Developer Research reveals that the number of developers working on games for the iPhone continues to rise, roughly doubling in number from last year. At the same time, the amount of work done on games for Nintendo's Wii dropped significantly:
"Just over 70 percent of developers said they were developing at least one game for PC or Mac (including browser and social games), rising slightly from last year; 41 percent reported working on console games. Within that latter group, Xbox 360 was the most popular system with 69 percent of console developers targeting it, followed by 61 percent for PlayStation 3. While those console figures stayed within a few percent of last year's results, the change in Wii adoption was much more significant: reported developer support for the system dropped from 42 percent to 30 percent of console developers, supporting numerous publishers' claims of a recent softening of the Wii market."
Neutrinos have bad breadth.
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False assumption? (Score:5, Insightful)
The summary seems to create the assumption that the same developers which are abandoning the Wii are moving to the iPhone.
I'm not even sure how something like this would work. The economics are different, the scale is different, hell, even the target consumers are probably different.
Why Wii and iPhone developers would differ (Score:5, Informative)
The summary seems to create the assumption that the same developers which are abandoning the Wii are moving to the iPhone.
You're likely right. I imagine the recession starting in 2008 has slowed major label video game development in general, and a different group of developers are doing things on the iPhone. Unlike Wii Shop Channel, which requires developers to have a dedicated office and a successful commercial title on another platform, Apple's App Store model (almost an exact copy of Microsoft's Xbox Live Indie Games) is much friendlier to 1- and 2-man shops.
Parent
XNA was first by 7 months (Score:4, Informative)
Microsofts Indy games for live is the copy, the app store predates it
XNA Game Studio 2.0 [wikipedia.org] (which introduced what is now Xbox Live Indie Games): December 2007. App Store [wikipedia.org]: July 2008. When I first read about the App Store's business model, I found the $99 fee and the 70/30 split to be suspicious similarities.
Parent
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Every other phone is friendlier still
You haven't seen feature phones that use BREW [wikipedia.org]. It's reportedly even more of a pain in the behind than iPhone.
Re:False assumption? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, it's not completely wrong. :) ).
We did some video games on Nintendo DS, it was easier for us to get a Wii (because we didn't have to do all the paperwork again and Nintendo knew us already) so we tried that.
But it didn't work so well. If you don't sell more than 2000 or 3000 games on WiiWare, you don't get any money (and... we got nothing yet
We tried a game on DSi (DSiWare) and our engine was already cross-platform so we ported it on the iPhone.
I don't know if every studio like us did the same thing, but the Wii is dead. We don't know yet if the iPhone will be a viable platform for us, our game isn't out yet.
Parent
PC party games (Score:3, Interesting)
If your game is high quality, you need to hit Steam.
Top sellers on Wii include Carnival Games, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, and similar party favorites. These video games allow up to four players to join in without having to own a separate console, monitor, and copy of the game per player. The PC app store Steam, on the other hand, is limited by the comparatively small median monitor of a PC, where it's difficult for four players holding gamepads to see the screen. True, it is fairly easy to connect a PC to the VGA or HDMI input on an HDTV, thereby f
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If your game gets on steam, and it's good, you're guaranteed 5 digit sales.
On a 6 digit budget game?
Some steam games sell 6 or 7 digits.
Guaranteed 5 digits is pretty good. The iPhone has a guaranteed 2 digits, and the Wii only ~4. :P
And why does this software have such a limitation? Based on everything I've read in other Slashdot comments, it's because there aren't enough customers in the PC gaming market who have the appropriate hardware. Major-label PC games aimed at the median PC gamer are designed for the median PC monitor, which is smaller than the median console monitor. This in turn is because the median PC gamer is less of a hardcore enthusiast than someone like you who runs dual head 1080p-class monitors. One person does not a market make.
There are plenty of customers out there. What publishers don't grasp, is we're not all on their schedule. People upgrade at different times. Although there's a big burst on release, you could get a steady stream of sales for years after release, especially if you drop the price every once and a while.
I know people with computers that will only play older games like Far Cry. Wh
Good point, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
I largely agree with your statement, but I would imagine that there is are least *some* developers jumping ship from Wii (or, more likely, DS/DSi) to iPhone/iPod. And they're probably making games for the older consumers that Nintendo has been courting in recent years.
For all the talk of Apple's restrictive policies, Nintendo's stance towards developers is almost draconian by comparison. Development kits for Nintendo hardware run into the thousands of $$$ -- assuming Nintendo even sells you a devkit, which they won't unless you're an established developer or you're being published by someone with a known track record. And unlike Apple which takes 30% off the top, Nintendo's cut is largely determined on a case-by-case basis (EA probably gets a much more lucrative deal than a small publisher.
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I think you're under-estimating Apple's nazi-like control over the app store. At least Nintendo won't let you release a game and then yank it off the shelves after it has launched and they will allow y
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The majority of Wii games are shovelware. These developers don't care about quality games, they care about maximum profit via little investment and ignorance. They probably throw a couple of Collins College graduates at a title and if it turns on and doesn't crash in 5 minutes it is good to go. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them said "learn to code for the iphone in a week, have something we can ship in 8".
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Hell, if a bunch of Wii developers move to the iPhone, the average quality of developers on both will rise. I don't think any important developers are going to abandon the Wii.
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It wouldn't surprise me if some of them said "learn to code for the iphone in a week, have something we can ship in 8".
My college has decided to focus its game development program on the iPhone, because they think it's the hot salable property. Just wait for the flood in 3, 2, 1...
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Exactly... if you program something for the iPhone, and Apple approves it, it's on the store. On the big 3 consoles, even if you're an amateur studio who gets their game published on there, you're still semi-pro - I guess a bit less so on XBLA since they're pretty open.
I wouldn't be surprised if the raw number of developers was even 10x higher on iPhone - it's somewhere between computer and console in terms of available software. Now if companies like Capcom, Konami, Square-Enix, Sega, Namco, etc started dr
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The summary seems to create the assumption that the same developers which are abandoning the Wii are moving to the iPhone
It creates no such assumption. The summary never says that the same developers are migrating.
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But some developers would be looking at the $$$ from selling a game to the same family more than once.
In that case, we'd see an exodus from WiiWare to DSiWare, not necessarily one from WiiWare to iPhone apps.
DS has no app store (Score:3, Insightful)
The DS (yes, you have to count all versions in the wild)
The DSi has both an online app store and a retail channel. The DS and DS Lite have only the retail channel, and retail channels strongly favor major labels, even on fully open platforms such as PC. So among handheld platforms with an app store, I count iPhone+iPod Touch, PSP+PSP Go, and DSi. Of the three, only Apple's app store has an official developer program open to the general public.
Re:False assumption? (Score:5, Informative)
wrong
each itunes account can support up to 5 computers and as far as i know an unlimited number of idevices like the iphone, ipod or apple TV. you buy something once from the iTunes store and you can play it back on any device associated with that account
Parent
Re:False assumption? (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, but that's bullshit. I've had activated computers die more than once. You load up iTunes (on any working machine), go into "account settings" and click "deauthorize all". You can then freely authorize any five computers.
I've done this multiple times. I've had three different machines die when "authorized", done this each time, yet right this moment I have five different machines authorized to play with the same account.
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Just watch out if your computer dies and you have no way to start iTunes and click "Deactivate". 5 dead computers later and all your purchases are history.
... except for the part where you can fire up iTunes on your new computer, sign into your account without activating, and click "Deauthorize All Computers" and then activate your new computer(s).
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If you're logged in, you can set what sections show on the front page (one of which is an "apple" section.)
If you're using RSS, you'll have to filter it yourself, or use the individual section RSS feeds.
Lies, damned lies and statistics. (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course it's easier to make a game for the iPhone than the Wii, so more casual developers and small teams are going to start working on them. So as they enter game development, the percentage of Wii developers will decrease. But what about the total number of Wii developers? I am willing to bet they actually increased, stayed the same or slightly decreased. And the two platforms are not really comprable so that all this is, is some meaningless fistclenching by fans of Apple.
Re:Lies, damned lies and statistics. (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
wrong conclusion (Score:5, Insightful)
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Exactly. The barrier for entry to develop for the iPhone is extremely small. Does it matter if there are 100x more "game developers" for the iPhone if 99% of the games are crap?
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Does it matter if there are 100x more "game developers" for the iPhone if 99% of the games are crap?
True, barriers to entry like having a dedicated office and having a prior commercial title on another platform (source: warioworld.com) are ostensibly supposed to sort wheat from chaff. But they also increase the chance of falsely rejecting a viable work, which means games not really meant for a PC at all have to get released on PC because neither of the two console makers with reliable hardware (Nintendo and Sony) will give a micro-ISV a chance.
Seventh Gen losing steam (Score:2, Interesting)
Four years is around the time it took for the 5th and 6th generations to lose steam. Difference is next-gen no longer impresses anyone.
People just want smaller, quieter, lower power.
like it matters... (Score:4, Insightful)
mostly all of nintendo's biggest games for wii or any of their platforms are developed in-house anyways, so it'll mean the heaps of crap disguised as games being thrown at the wii daily will be slightly less frequent, while the titles with actual quality behind them (not quality ideas, just quality presentation and design) won't be bothered
What hurt the Wii... (Score:2, Funny)
...was its very weak multiplayer capability. The Xbox 360 player puts on the headphone/mic headset and is instantly talking to his circle of friends over the internet while navigating through a virtual world with them. The Wii does not allow the two-way voice communication with other players. If the Wii players want to gather in the same room and play they will find that there are very few Wii games with split-screen multiplayer capability. Taken together, this means the Wii is by and large, a solitary
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because no one has ever released a game for multiple platforms.
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Which I suppose makes the whole 160% thing the GP pointed out actually rather interesting; wouldn't a percentage that low indicate that far more titles are single-platform than multi-platform? I thought releasing your game on every damn platform possible (or at least 360/PS3) was the thing that everyone did now...
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Nintendo isn't very hostile anymore, especially not enough to make ignoring half the console market worth it. Third parties only make godawful games for the Wii to prey on "stupid casuals" while putting anything worth buying on the 360 and PS3, then they proclaim that third party games don't sell on the Wii. I don't know if they honestly believe the bullshit they've been spouting but they act like Nintendo is some magical being that does not follow the rules of the market that the rest of the world follows
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Then you have Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (7.54M 67% average), Carni
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Nintendo isn't very hostile anymore
True, Nintendo is far less hostile than it was in the NES days when it was found either guilty or liable (I forget which) of monopolizing the market for video game consoles by demanding exclusivity agreements from developers and retailers. Competition from Sega, Sony, and Microsoft has scaled some of Nintendo's hostility back, but some indies still get shafted by Nintendo's policies requiring a dedicated office and apparently a prior commercial title on a non-Nintendo platform just to get the SDK. See also
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There are three issues that the wii presents for most game developers used to developing traditional console or even PC games.
All three of these issues can be summed up as that the Wii presents a completely new gaming paradigm for developers. I think the biggest issue is that the wiimote presents a very different interface than traditional console and PC games. I bet most developers have no idea how to take advantage of the wiimote and the motion-sensitive options it provides. The few games that have used t
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The problem is all the game consoles and most (all?) of the cellphones are DRM encumbered. Nobody can publish a program for these systems unless they get the personal approval of the manufacturer or use an "illegal circumvention device."
With both Microsoft and Apple both deep into DRM, one has to wonder if their ultimate goal may be to convert general purpose computers into the same censored kind of device. It is asinine when you buy hardware and are not allowed to install whatever software you legally ow
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Surely there's only one mobile phone company that [DRM lock-in] applies to (Apple)? The rest, you are free to write apps for them.
Are you talking about only smartphones? A lot of feature phones still use BREW [wikipedia.org].
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Do you realize that the Wii just had its best Christmas sales-wise due to New Super Mario Bros Wii?
Third parties abandoning the Wii does not mean the Wii is suffering, for the most part these third parties have been completely useless and only producing garbage that hurts the Wii more than it helps.
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Why yes, but that means that the Wii is the N64 and Gamecube all over again, where everybody buys the exact same Nintendo games so when you go check out the Nintendo sections of the used games stores over the years, they have 10 copies of Nintendo-foo, and one copy of non-Nintendo-foo great game that no one bought.
Which do you think is easier to find, the N64 version of Mega Man Legends or the PSone version.
Or between the Gamecube and PS2 versions of Balder's Gate: Dark Alliance.
The Wii is like the Monopol
Re:Bye-bye Wii (Score:5, Insightful)
The Wii is going to tank? You hope Nintendo has enough cash? Dude, the Wii came out almost three and a half years ago, sales dropping off now means only that it might not have the longevity Nintendo hopes, not that it's tanking, as you say. It's still sold more units than any other Nintendo console. Calling the Wii anything but a success seems silly.
Parent
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Plus, every new game Nintendo releases is a hit. Nintendo seems to make their own success rather than depending on third party developers.
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personally I love the difference in the wii compared to standard sit on my ass and push buttons. i guess that is why msft and sony are both developing motion based controllers for their units.
If it was such a losy gimmick why is MSFT even bothering withthe tech?
I like running through a group of bad guys literally swinging my weapons. It is only the childish animation that is annoying and the stupid music that limits it. A good game should leave you tired and sore all over not just your ass.
Re:Bye-bye Wii (Score:4, Funny)
A good game should leave you tired and sore all over not just your ass.
Uh, what? I hesitate to ask which game you were playing. The Wii controller does NOT go there!
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Wii has been a runaway success of such gigantic proportions that no-one really expected Nintendo to pull something like that off. You don't have to like the device or the games, but don't be an idiot: stuffing your fingers in your ears and going lalalaa won't make the console go away.
The game market mechanics are different with Wii, this was obvious to anyone with half a brain: after all, Nintendo managed to sell consoles and games to a totally new ma
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I think Sony has a bigger problem with their consoles. Playstation 1 was still kicking long after Playstation 2 came out. Playstation 2 was still kicking long after Playstation 3 came out. That might change if Sony comes out with a Playstation 4 sooner [geek.com].
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The frakkin PS2 just won't DIE!. There's still new games made for it...mostly RPG's it seems since they take soooo long to develop, we're probably seeing the tail end of those. And unlike the Gamecube, you can still buy new PS2's and all the DualShocks, memory cards and games, new, on the shelves.
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Honestly, I think we'll see at least 2 more years of PS2 games. The much lower cost to develop for the PS2 vs the PS3, and the huge install base, makes it an attractive platform.
Disc games vs. retail games (Score:2)
The much lower cost to develop for the PS2 vs the PS3
Is that really the case? I'll grant that PS2 disc games are cheaper to develop than PS3 disc games, but unlike the PS2, the PS3 also has an online app store, and app stores in general tend to be cheaper than retail distribution. PhyreEngine [wikipedia.org] appears to be Sony's attempt to compete with XNA Game Studio; the one question mark is how to get a game published on any Sony platform if you're not a medium to large business.