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Wii 2 Delay Is Hurting Nintendo 310

Posted by Soulskill
from the hurting-all-the-way-to-the-bank dept.
BanjoTed writes "Michael Pachter's ongoing spat with Nintendo regarding the Wii 2 is well documented. Pachter is sure it's coming, Nintendo says it's not. Now the analyst has gone one further by claiming that the declining sales of the Wii documented in the platform holder's recent financial statements will only get worse unless it speeds up attempts to get its successor to market. He said, 'The reason for this is clear: the software being created is just not interesting enough or compelling enough to drive Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year, and most of those purchases are first party software. We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"
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Wii 2 Delay Is Hurting Nintendo

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'

    ... is just a more polite way of saying [joystiq.com]:

    "The way you manufacture a Wii is you take two GameCubes and duct tape." As if that wasn't already enough to break a fanboy's heart, (Spore developer Chris Hecker) called on Nintendo to "make a console that doesn't suck ass."

    The Wii hardware s

    • So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well. While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by blahplusplus (757119)

        " IT PRINTS MONEY!"

        Yes but you can't succeed over the long-term alone. The real issue is that Nintendo should have been bribing or buying out developers left and right to get real gamers games on it's console. The cost of development for games is huge for development houses and Nintendo really should have invested a lot more money once the Wii took off in other (western) developers.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          You are thinking of a generation of a console as being a long-term thing. If anything the failure of sony and rise of MS in the industry has proven each generation of consoles will be judged independently of previous generations and hence nintendo is probably 100% correct in their current approach of make as much as they can for as long as they can, in a year or 2 the next generation will start and the markers will be all reset, that is the time to fix developer issues and the power of the platform, now is

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Vectormatic (1759674)

            the gamecube pretty much showed that damaging developer relations with a previous platform can hurt the next one. The N64 had very little quality 3rd party titles, and this continued on the gamecube, even though hardware wise the cube was very potent for its day and age.

            If i were a software developer currently ignoring the wii, i'd have little reasons to think the new nintendo machine would be a serious turn around. It is doubtfull nintendo could make the jump from the wii to a system capable of competing e

            • Where is this attach rate myth coming from, last time I saw the PS3 and Wii attach rate were within 0.1 points of each other.
            • by scurker (1381139) on Friday May 07, 2010 @10:38AM (#32126556)

              And the fact that most wii owners have very low attach rates for games also hurts the prospects for the wii2.

              According to Nintendo's own numbers (released yesterday), this is simply not true [nintendo.co.jp]. The worldwide software to hardware ratio is 7.68 to 1, in the US it's 8.9 to 1. Last I checked that was ahead of the PS3 and only a little bit behind the 360. One might could make an argument that a few of those are 3rd party titles, but as far as general software sales are concerned, Nintendo has no need for concern.

        • Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a real gamer's game? I hear that a lot, but I don't think it means anything really. What type of game are you referring to?
          • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

            by somersault (912633)

            Games where the interface doesn't require you to shake around your controller for no reason other than the controller can detect shakes is one. Games that actually have some depth and fun past the "look I'm moving my arm and it's affecting what is on the screen!" are another. Go look at the Wii section in a game store sometime and see how many things are there that you'd actually enjoy playing past the novelty factor. "Party" games can be fun on the Wii, but mostly because you're playing with other people r

        • by bluefoxlucid (723572) on Friday May 07, 2010 @08:53AM (#32125054) Journal

          Nintendo once had Square-Enix in its pocket. The whole thing. Enix, Inc. was producing Dragon Quest for NES and SNES; Squaresoft was producing Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger for NES and SNES. At some point, both ditched; the Playstation 2 was bought by all my friends because they wanted Final Fantasy or racing games, while the Nintendo 64 was purchased by Mortal Kombat fans.

          I said back then that Nintendo needs a strong RPG market. There is an entire class of gamers that play RPGs, we like the system or the story. Final Fantasy games have amazing graphics-- and I don't mean shiny infinite polygon shit, I mean when the characters walk and talk they're ALIVE-- coupled with innovative game play in the RPG scope (ATB, CTB, junctioning, materia, artifact system, gambit system, they always do something different), rich music, and a deep and engaging storyline. The games are immersive; they tell a story, and they do so in a manner that brings you into the game rather than leading you to point out that the graphics are horrible or the sound is crappy.

          And that's what Nintendo needs. It needs Namco, Square-Enix, Camelot (second party-- Golden Sun), everyone. It needs to pick up a significant portion of a single, irreplaceable class of games. To me, that class is the RPG market, because you really can't make a 120 hour movie (cue Xenosaga jokes). Fighting games, puzzle games, racing games... they're interchangeable. RPGs are not fungible, in the same way Lord Foul's Bane and Ringworld are not fungible; Tekken vs Mortal Kombat is rather like comparing Pappa John's vs Dominos, and while you might have a preference, it doesn't really matter.

      • by IICV (652597) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:33AM (#32122668)

        Sells acceptably well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of the Wii are declining because everyone has one. I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.

        Look - almost one in ten people in Japan own a Wii. One in thirty people in the Americas own one, and this is including South American countries that don't have nearly as much wealth as the United States. I would argue that everyone who wants a Wii has one at this point, and that's why sales are dropping off - not due to lack of interest so much as a lack of people to sell to.

        Now Nintendo has basically two options; either drop the price even further, which will probably not do all that much because $200 is an entirely reasonable price point, or ramp up their cloning efforts and create more people to buy Wiis.

        • by phantomfive (622387) on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:29AM (#32123004) Journal

          Sells acceptably well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of the Wii are declining because everyone has one.

          Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.

          • Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.

            The PS2 has also been out for a lot longer than the Wii, with some super-low prices towards the end that were cheap enough to entice the late-adopters and the "I want to play $PS2ONLYTITLE - guess I'd better get one of those too" gamers.

            It's also been chippable and able to take a hard drive rom loader for a lot longer than the Wii has. Hey... I wonder how much THAT has to do with the fact that Wii owners are only buying two titles a year?

          • You could actually look it up [vgchartz.com], and you would see that the Wii is still doing better at this point then the PS2 was doing this many weeks after launch.
          • You also should take into account that some PS2 owners probably got a second PS2 either because drive in their first one broke (this happened to our PS1 and is happening to our PS2) or because they wanted the slim version. They're cheap enough that it's not that big a deal to get another when the first dies. So that could account for some inflation of the numbers. If the Wii is more reliable then you can't compare the two sets of figures directly.

        • by marsu_k (701360) on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:38AM (#32123064)

          I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.

          Google "Wii vga adapter", there are several. You'll need to have a tv at your disposal somewhere though to be able to switch the Wii to use 480p output. As for otherwise interacting with your computers, I've had tons of fun with cwiid [abstrakraft.org], I'm sure similiar programs exist for Windows as well if you are so inclined.

      • by ultranova (717540)

        So what if it sucks?

        Like the summary said, it's so far behind the other consoles, not to mention PC's, that it requires a completely separate codebase. Basically, all the good Wii games are made by Nintendo itself, and it can't make them fast enough to keep Wii competitive in gamer's eyes.

        Third party games need to either be completely redone for Wii, which is expensive and usually results in far inferior experience, or they need to be from few generations ago in the first place.

        it's cheap to produce and se

      • So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well. While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!

        I think what Nintendo is misjudging is the fact that the control method is a novelty that wears off on many, and the reason that their first-party titles are driving all of the sales is because we are only buying them for the Wii because they are only releasing them for the Wii.

        I would have bought New Super Mario Bros. on any platform; it was released for Wii, so it was the only Wii game I bought last year.

    • by Volante3192 (953645) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:13AM (#32122542)

      And yet it's the best selling console of this generation. Fancy that...

      • by westlake (615356)

        And yet it's the best selling console of this generation. Fancy that...

        You could argue with some truth that the Wii is the best-selling console of the last generation. The standard-definition generation.

      • by bjourne (1034822)
        So what? Windows is the best selling operating system of this decade and it still sucks. You can't judge how good a product is by how many suckers get fooled by its marketing. Everyone I know who purchased a Wii have their consoles standing idly while those who bought xboxes or ps3s continue to enjoying games on their platforms.
    • Yes. It is more polite. The flack that Hecker faced for his rather infamous statement was not because what he was driving at was unfactual, it was because it was rude (I believe his exact words actually contained at least one expletive). Had he taken the time to choose his words much more carefully, I doubt he would have been later compelled to issue an apology even though the net meaning behind his words would have been approximately the same.
    • by mjwx (966435) on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:29AM (#32123002)

      The Wii hardware sucked in 2007, and surprise surprise, it still sucks in 2010.

      The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.

      You miss the point, the hardware doesn't make a good console, in that respect they are always in 2nd place to the PC. It's the games that make the console, whilst Microsoft and Sony's best games only sold 8 and 5 million respectively Nintendo has 9 games that have outsold them with the top game (Wii Sports) selling 67 million copies. Nintendo is doing well because playing the Wii is fun, this is what Sony and Microsoft forgot when designing their powerhouses. Nintendo came with a console that is not only the weakest and cheapest console but the most fun.

      Sony has ignored the fact that console players want simple, fun games. Microsoft has taken note but as always fails to deliver anything useful (Natal), the next Xbox you can expect to be Microsoft's copy of the Wii (the Xii perhaps). With the financial trouble Sony is in, all bets are off on whether there will be a PS4.

      • by feepness (543479)

        The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.

        The Wii has both the lowest attach rate and lowest reviewed games of all three systems.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by mjwx (966435)

          The Wii has both the lowest attach rate

          Having almost twice the number of consoles will do that to you. It makes statistics like these easy to skew. More games per console owner, that simply means that there are fewer consoles then games. Plus the Wii not being a loss leader means that this statistic is irrelevant. Even if the Attach rate is 40% lower, Nintendo are still shipping more games and don't have a deficit per console.

          and lowest reviewed games

          Not like game review sites can be paid off or need t [wikipedia.org]

          • by feepness (543479)

            Really this doesn't detract from the point that the Wii sold because it was simple, easy and fun.

            The point was that the games on the 360 and PS3 "sucked in 2007 and still suck in 2010".

            By both attach rate and review score this is demonstrably not true. Attach rate specifically corrects for number of consoles sold.

      • Sony has ignored the fact that console players want simple, fun games.

        No, Sony knows it's market and it's biggest fans. While Nintendo IS selling plenty of Wii's to grandparents and soccer moms, Sony knows that not ALL console players want to do Yoga or play Wii Sports and buy no other games.

        Sony's all about the "little bit of this, little bit of that." these days, kind of like how they were during the PS2 days. During the early PS3 days they were a little too focused on the kind of testosteroney young m

  • ...Then it probably isn't the delay-product-to-help-current-generation shtick.

  • You make games for the systems available, not the systems you wish you had available!

  • and people will be buying it in the millions per week. Seriously though, the multi-touch technology offers a lot of flexibility.
  • by r6_jason (893331) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:06AM (#32122490) Homepage
    Who is Michael Pachter and why is anyone supposed to care what he thinks?
  • by bloodhawk (813939) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:10AM (#32122518)
    Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.

    FYI, Current Weekly sales of the Wii are almost equal to the combined totals of the ps3 and xbox 360 and they still make money on the hardware. While sure their sales are declining somewhat it probably has more to do with market saturation than anything else. I am sure another version is coming some day but at this point I would think the still rather good sales would be seriously undermined if they released information on a replacement version.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Hurricane78 (562437)

      Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.

      Huh? There are analysts that are not butchers? That’s news to me...
      What the hell is an “analyst” anyway, other than someone who is so sure of himself that he pulls others into believing him? (Completely unrelated to the question of he actually knows anything. ^^)

    • by tagno25 (1518033)

      Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.

      It is more like saying a cave troll is a brain surgeon or particle physicist.

    • But he's got two points worth noting:

      1) People don't seem to buy many Wii games. This is a problem over all for a console. Even if you make some money on the hardware, the big money is made on the software. Nintendo should know, they invented that model with the original NES. The Wii seems to be able to move hardware pretty good, but they can't move the software. People buy it, maybe buy a couple more games, then set it aside. In the long run, that won't be good for making money. The reason the PS2 did so w

      • by Rogerborg (306625) on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:51AM (#32123718) Homepage

        People don't seem to buy many Wii games.

        Even assuming he's right about the numbers - and that's a big ass-u-mtpion - his assertion that it's because new games aren't compelling is just that: an assertion.

        He hasn't considered the alternative: that the Wii has so many good pick-up-and-play games with compelling gameplay that owners are actually happy re-playing what they already own, rather than feeling inadequate if they don't upgrade to MurderSportsStealthSim 14.

        Since that's the entire raison d'être of the Wii, and the reason why it's destroying the 360 and PS3 in hardware sales, who am I going to believe? Nintendo from their platinum clad fortress inside a moat of liquid gold, or some pissant intertubes nobody who's been wrong about every other Goddamn thing he's ever said?

        By the way, do you know what a rhetorical question is?

  • by Nerdfest (867930) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:10AM (#32122524)
    Perhaps it's just the people I know, but nobody that bought a Wii uses it to any great degree. It was a bit of sport to see if you could pick one up when they were in demand, but teh novelty seems to wear off very quickly, both for my gamer friends, and non-gamer relatives, etc. They're fun at the occasional party, but gather dust much of the time.

    I think they'll need to come out with another major innovation (not just HD output) to get many to buy into the hype again. Of course, I also think the iPad will go the same way the Wii did, but I've frequently been wrong when it comes to judging consumers.
    • Admittedly there's not much of a library to get for it. Once you go through the 1st party titles there's what...?

      On the plus side, I don't really have the time to go through a game a week. I'm *still* plodding through New SMB.

    • by CronoCloud (590650) <cronocloudauron@nOSPAM.gmail.com> on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:15AM (#32122568)

      The Wii is like that Monopoly or Life set everyone has that they pull out at family/friends get-togethers and holidays, but doesn't see much use otherwise.

      • by ildon (413912)

        This is the exact post I was going to make, except my example was Pictionary.

      • A couple years ago my roommate got one. He wanted a console for the TV to play games with his girlfriend. His reasoning for the Wii was that since he was a PC gamers, most of the Xbos 360 games were also available for the PC (and usually better looking) and Sony could go fuck themselves so Wii it was. I tried it out a bit but determined it really didn't have the kind of games I like and so didn't mess with it much. Stuck me as being highly gimmicky. I mean Wii sports seemed mildly amusing, until you realize

      • by vegiVamp (518171)
        Not unlike that Monopoly or Life set of yours, the Wii mostly designed to be groupware. While you most certainly can play alone, it isn't half as much fun.
    • by plover (150551) * on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:24AM (#32122610) Homepage Journal

      The problem is that since it's not a multi purpose media player like the PS3, people have to justify their purchases to specifically playing games. At least with the Sony machine you can play ordinary Blu-ray disks.

      I guess it'll remain to be seen if Nintendo comes up with the novel hook yet again. Wii-motes were indeed awesome. The balance board is still awesome. But what can they do to top themselves? Echo location? Facial expression recognition? They also are kind of bound to keep themselves kid-friendly, which means more adult-oriented accessories are out of their picture -- no Wii-AK-47s or Wii-M16A4s with sniper scopes.

      Maybe they'll have a traffic tutor and 3D output and sell Wii-Certified Driving School games. Or maybe they'll make the Wii-motes interact with each other so you can actually play light sabers with your buddies. Don't know.

      • by scdeimos (632778)

        They also are kind of bound to keep themselves kid-friendly, which means more adult-oriented accessories are out of their picture -- no Wii-AK-47s or Wii-M16A4s with sniper scopes.

        Ah, you must have missed the Wiimote Shotgun Rifle [gadgets-weblog.com] accessory. (I have the Wii Zapper/Link's Crossbow Training bundle [wired.com] too, by the way, which was somewhat disappointing.)

      • At least with the Sony machine you can play ordinary Blu-ray disks.

        Not to mention playing streamed video & music over a network. It's freakin' great at that. The chapter-like feature (hit square when a video's playing, you'll see it; up and down increase or decrease length between snapshots) alone makes it better than any other video player I can think of.

        I use it more to watch videos and play music than I do to play games, though it still gets 5-10hrs of game time a week--mostly Modern Warfare 2 spli

      • by Aladrin (926209)

        No, the problem is that most of the games suck, either from poor game design (plot, mechanics, etc) or from poor control schemes.

        I own all 3 systems. I play the PS3 the most, the 360 second, and I almost never play the Wii. PS3 and 360 could actually flip-flop, but one of my international friends has a PS3 and we share games, plus I can import PS3 games without any worries that they will be region protected. Otherwise, their games are pretty much identical. The Wii, on the other hand, has only got a few

    • by EvilAlphonso (809413) <meushi.slashdot@NosPaM.gmail.com> on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:56AM (#32123478) Journal

      They're fun at the occasional party, but gather dust much of the time.

      Funnily enough, that is exactly what the xbox360s and PS3s have been doing in the shops around here. You can see the Wii stack emptying, the other stacks don't move much. Most people I know have a Wii, only a handful have a Xbox360 and they only own it for a couple of games that weren't released on the Wii.

      Disclaimer: in the previous console generation I owned all three consoles, this generation I only bought a wii as I no longer have the time or the desire to be a "hardcore gamer". That matches what happened to almost every gamer I know... they grow up, get a job, get married, buy a house and have kid(s). All of a sudden, grinding a couple hours a day on a console isn't entertaining anymore.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by cvd6262 (180823)

        Same here. Our social circles are all parents with kids and kids are still playing the Wii. My 4yo has a Go Diego Go title that he can play, my 8yo is working on NSMBW, and I have golf, baseball, etc. games that I can play casually as a break from my more pressing responsibilities.

  • Seriously, Slashdot, what is up with these horrible titles?

  • And yet (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chuck Chunder (21021) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:30AM (#32122656) Homepage Journal
    The first article says:

    For the year, Wii sales totaled 20.5 million for cumulative sales reaching 70.9 million — the largest ever for game consoles for Nintendo.

    At the moment Nintendo's problem is a mere reduction in profit.
    Pachter's advice is to join the ranks of the PS3/Xbox360 but the makers of those consoles have struggled to turn any profit in the relevant sections of their company.

    • Are the Xbox 360 and PS3 still not making a profit on hardware? I just find that hard to believe.

  • by pwilli (1102893) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:30AM (#32122660)
    I mean his proposed strategy for Nintendo to leave their pretty much uncontested "niche" market to compete in a market that already has been split up between two heavy-weight contestants, who are willing to ultimately lose money just to increase their market share further, is pure genius.

    [/sarcasm]
  • We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"

    Sure, but creating a game that runs on both the XBox 360 and the PS3 isn't a cakewalk either. The architectures between the two is ridiculously different and on top of that you are trying to max out the power on both the systems. I am pretty sure that difference in work easily compensates for translating assets to low rez and redesigning part of the concept of the game. One man's junk is another mans treasure.

  • What's the big deal with new, new, new? Innovation, improvement, it's all good but massive improvements can be made in software alone.

    Just look at the waste of cellphones and even now computers being treated so disposable even though they can last such a long time. Why?

    Ahhh just kidding. I know why.

  • by Pathway (2111) <pathway@google.com> on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:16AM (#32122898)

    but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.

    When I think of Nintendo, I think of their tier 1 titles. That's not to say there aren't any good 3rd party titles, but Zelda, Mario, Metriod... These games are a driving force which the big-N uses to drive sales. And the strategy has worked for them for the past 25 years. Now, who is Nintendo marketing for? The answer is simple:

    Everyone. Let me do a little hypothetical for you:

    Think of your favorite game on an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3. Got that game in your head? Now, imagine you were playing that game at Thanksgiving time in front of your whole family, including your Grandma. 9 games out of 10, I'm thinking that at best your grandma will simply not understand, or at worst be offended.

    Now do the same thing with the Wii. 9 times out of 10, it's a game you and everybody you know can at least appreciate, if not be interested in.

    That, and the revolutionary easy to use controls (which are now being emulated), make the Wii a killer social platform focused on games and having fun. That's why it's been a big success.

    And the idea that "The CPU is too slow" is the reason for the Wii not making yet-another-year-of-record-sales... That doesn't make sense. As we all know, Super Mario Brothers (the original one for the NES) is fun despite having ugly graphics. It's not how the game looks, it's how the game _plays_.

    --Pathway

  • How? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mjwx (966435) on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:18AM (#32122910)
    The Wii prints money. As does the DS.

    The Wii has nearly outsold both the PS3 and Xbox360 put together, and made a profit on every unit sold (70 m Wii's, 33 m PS3's, 40 M Xbox360's).

    The decline in Wii sales can be quite easily explained in by the prolonged global downturn and the fact that there are so many Wii's already in the hands of consumers. Unlike the other consoles they don't RROD or have a "Nintendo" timer so the need for existing customers to replace their Wii is minimal. Eventually a console will reach maximum saturation and at 70 million units shipped I'm not surprised, everyone and their mum has a Wii already and those bought back in 2008 are still working. Nintendo and Wii software makers are reporting that "net profit has fallen" not that they are making a loss.

    Nintendo have nothing to lose here, most popular console, cheapest console and according to Patcher, who's spat against Nintendo is well documented their software sales have only declined about 6.5% (205m units per year to 192m units per year). So the Wii is still printing money for Nintendo, they don't need to harm that by revealing another console in 2012, 2013-2014 would be more likely with the battering Japan's economy took in the GFC. I'm sure Nintendo will announce something after Sony and Microsoft do and they aren't going to do anything fast with Sony making a loss on every PS3 and Microsoft barely breaking even on every 360, neither have the money to waste nor can afford off-putting consumers from their current offerings.

    Point in short, Nintendo are on top of the console hill, they don't need to do anything. The entire generation of consoles will be around for a while due to the GFC killing funding for R&D, maybe Sony really will get 10 years out of the PS3 although with the way Sony has been haemorrhaging money in the GFC there may not be a PS4.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by marcansoft (727665)

      Unlike the other consoles they don't RROD or have a "Nintendo" timer so the need for existing customers to replace their Wii is minimal.

      All consoles have their problems (though the 360 admittedly had more) and the Wii is no exception. You might want to look up WC24 mode overheating issues (the Hollywood's power management is horrid and their software doesn't help by keeping the ARM CPU usage at 100% while the console is "off"), graphical corruption issues which may or may not be caused by said overheating (

      • Re:How? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mjwx (966435) on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:57AM (#32123760)
        And what percentage of owners were affected by these glitches?

        MS told people to live with the RROD for months, Sony recently tried to take the "other OS" option away from 100% of users. As far as problems go, the Nintendo Wii has had the least of this generation.

        If you bothered to read the bit of my post you quoted, I said the need was "minimal" which means it is uncommon, not non-existent.
  • by LostMyBeaver (1226054) on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:27AM (#32122982)
    The money in gaming consoles is typically in the licensing fees attached to each disc sold. The biggest problem that Nintendo faces is that there is now a great deal of either inexpensive, "oldies but goodies", or used games in the Wii market. Just look at it this way. People are still buying PS2 games like they're the hottest thing out there. Publishers are still producing PS2 games as well. The reason is, market saturation.

    Head to your local GameStop, the used game section is incredibly active for PS2, yet the PS3 selection is piss poor in comparison.

    Nintendo has managed to achieve tremendous market proliferation and has placed a Wii in more houses than anyone would have ever imagined. A new Wii, which costs a bunch more money may sell well to many people, but in reality, it won't achieve the same levels as Wii. Nintendo knows this. They need to focus on making the current console more attractive. A simple external storage device for downloadable games would be the next real logical step for them.

    Downloadable games are really the way to go for them. They already do quite well selling old games (and a few new) through their online store, but there are no new and fancy games for the console out there. The console vendors are desperate for solutions through downloadable content since they can full control over how the game is resold after the fact. If they make the games less expensive by selling them online, they can close the "used game" hole which is hurting them.

    With an external harddrive/network adapter combination device (wired network should have been standard to start), they could then run a HUGE marketing campaign to get people to start buying the games online instead of in the stores. It would increase margins across the board for everyone. Additionally, to get past the typical nervous online consumers issue (meaning people not liking using credit cards online), they could sell a package from a game at a store like GameStop with a serial number to allow them to download the game to their Wii.

    The important thing they must do though is to lock the store to a user instead of a console. This way if a device breaks down, the consumer would be able to transfer their purchases to the new unit.

    So, a Wii 2 would do nothing more than introduce new hardware which they would have to try and get into everyone's homes where there is still so much more to be done with the Wii before it's "old and crappy".
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by zooblethorpe (686757)

      They need to focus on making the current console more attractive.

      They've just recently announced that the base package will come with Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort, with the included Wiimote now coming equipped with the Wii Motion Plus by default. Linky. [nintendo.com]

      A simple external storage device for downloadable games would be the next real logical step for them.

      The old Wii (got mine 3~4 years ago) already comes with a slot for an SD card, and these come in GB sizes these days. Sticking a 2GB card in my Wii's

      • Ah. I see you're talking about selling disc-based games online instead, not just the current WiiWare and Virtual Console online offerings. That might fly in Europe, but I wonder if US infrastructure is really up for that?

        Hmmm....I live in California, so maybe I've had an unusual experience or something, but I've never had trouble downloading DVD-size files on my consoles. You can get 360 games in pure digital form. Ditto for PS2 games on the PS3...so I don't see why the Wii wouldn't be capable of providing that (unless Nintendo's infrastructure wasn't up to it).

        As much as I dislike what it will mean for the used game market, All the console makers (Nintendo included) are embracing downloads, so I don't see Nintendo pulling

    • by jimicus (737525)

      A simple external storage device for downloadable games would be the next real logical step for them.

      The Wii already supports SD cards up to 32GB, you can store downloaded games there and launch them from there. What benefit would there be to such a device?

      With an external harddrive/network adapter combination device (wired network should have been standard to start), they could then run a HUGE marketing campaign to get people to start buying the games online instead of in the stores. It would increase margins across the board for everyone. Additionally, to get past the typical nervous online consumers issue (meaning people not liking using credit cards online), they could sell a package from a game at a store like GameStop with a serial number to allow them to download the game to their Wii.

      Do you mean something like the Wii points card [amazon.co.uk]?

      The important thing they must do though is to lock the store to a user instead of a console. This way if a device breaks down, the consumer would be able to transfer their purchases to the new unit.

      Apparently Nintendo have the ability to do this, but they won't do it unless you register the Wii.

    • Both replies so far mention the ability to use SD cards up to 32gigs.

      Great, but a full game is typically 3-4 gigs in size. That would be very limiting. I'm thinking of something more suitable to replacing the DVDs themselves.

      Also, I'm familiar with the Wii Points Card, and that's the general idea, but some people like to have a more tangible asset. A box with a book might be good enough. It also helps to satisfy the people (like myself) who still prefer to walk into a store and see stuff and walk out with a
  • It's never worth buying ANY game new, these days. In two weeks, the recycled sludge is marked down to $14.95 or less, "used." In six months, it's only available at Amazon, marked up to $718.49, a sure sign somebody somewhere else has it for $7 bucks. I haven't paid new prices since Final Fantasy XII, which was the last game I bought worth what I paid for it.
  • In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anubis IV (1279820) on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:44AM (#32123414)
    Fanboys of $favorite_company have been predicting the demise of $rival_company for the last $num_years years and have new "theories" about how that downfall will come about, along with mountains of "evidence" and "careful thought" to back up their ideas. They also claim they're not wrong like they were last time.

    Seriously, why is this news? A guy is wrong, so he makes more claims, and we're supposed to pay attention to these new claims why?
  • The reason for this is clear: the software being created is just not interesting enough or compelling enough to drive Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year, [...]

    Counting only the real games I possess for the Wii, I'd say it exists for more than 12 years...

    [...] and most of those purchases are first party software.

    Interesting... What Nintendo Wii is he talking about?

  • The 3DS is proof enough that Nintendo can be foolish to cut the legs off of a system at its peak, but twice in a row? Nintendo isn't that stupid.

    Pachter is still just butthurt over the fact that gaming isn't going the way he predicted, all because, as it turns out, graphics really don't matter. He thought it did, and it cost him dear, so now he's out to do anything he can to tank the Wii, and this is only the latest in his long string of failed attempts to do so.

  • by LordZardoz (155141) on Friday May 07, 2010 @12:30PM (#32128606)

    The CPU power has less to do with the Wii's difficulties then you might think. The only affect that the machines power has is that it makes it more difficult to port Xbox or PS3 games over.

    The 2 most significant factors are that the marketing position of the Wii, and the unique control system.

    The controls are different enough that it makes porting a game directly across that much more difficult. And if your not going to port a game over, then you are going to have to deal with figuring out a control scheme that is suitable to the platform. This has proven to be a non trivial challenge.

    The marketing position of the Wii has managed to alienate the core gamers. This is more of a problem for the 3rd party publishers. Nintendo is the only company that has come out with anything that even looks appealing to a core gamer (think Legend of Zelda, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, and Metroid) for the platform. Those games can sell based on the strength of the brand. But for the 3rd party publishers, there is not much incentive to create something like Gears of War, Assassins Creed or Rainbow 6 Vegas for the platform when doing so will require dramatically reworking the interface for the controller (which makes it a non port of a game) and the art assets to fit that platform (those publishers depend on multi platform sales). Because no one managed this in 2006 to 2007, that customer base moved to the Xbox 360 and PS3. And now that those gamers are entrenched on that platform, none of the major publishers are going to bother trying.

    The publishers that could have managed to make those games for the Wii spend the last 4 years making craptastic party games trying to emulate what Nintendo did with Wii sports. And because no one was able to do the job better than Nintendo, and because the non core market is a great deal more picky than the core gamers (only buying a few games a year), no one else made money.

    A Wii 2 console will only help the situation if everyone who did buy a Wii can be convinced to buy the new system. Otherwise the Wii 2 will only have an install base that can be determined by the number of people who bought any 3 of Smash brothers Brawl, Metroid, Zelda, Mario Galaxy, and Mario Kart.

    END COMMUNICATION

  • The problem with Wii (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aeoo (568706) on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:44PM (#32129912) Journal

    The problem with Wii is that it lacks good games. Wii hardware is good enough. Sure, it's not the best, but it's OK. Wii controllers are broken, but you can get a classic controller to fix them. The real problem is that Wii has no games besides a few, for a very narrow market niche. How many people these days want to play Mario? And Zelda? Among RPG fans, Zelda is not a huge hit. It's kind of a boring game. Zelda can in no way compare to Fallout 3 (never mind 2, etc.), Oblivion, and even Final Fantasy 12. Arguably Zelda is better than FF13, but only because 13 was so terrible.

    So the problem is that Nintendo games are boring have beens of the past, and their 3rd party support is limited and the games focus on gimmickry and waggliness above all else.

    And I don't think Nintendo is going to be fixing their software any time soon. So making Wii 2 will not help them in the least. People already know to avoid buying Wii. Many people's Wii is currently gathering dust.

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