First Reviews of Civilization V 380
An anonymous reader submitted linkage to a story explaining why Hemos has been twitching for a week in anticipation: "Defying the urge to phone-in an unambitious sequel and coast on past successes, Sid Meier's Civilization V is anything but a lazy rehash. It feels almost as if someone described the concept of the renowned 19-year-old turn-based strategy series to a talented designer who'd never played it, and let him come up with his own version. It's similar enough to be familiar to veterans, different enough to be fresh, and its polish and accessibility make it a great place for new players to pick up one hell of a Civ addiction."
Just...one...more...turn... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just... another... one...
DRM? (Score:4, Insightful)
I didn't see anything in the review related to DRM. That's an essential subject for any game review these days.
Re:Just...one...more...turn... (Score:5, Insightful)
One more.
Five more.
Oh crap, sunrise! I gotta go to work!
One more.
Re:A veteran Civilization fan... (Score:3, Insightful)
No offense, but are you surprised? People seem to forget how ludicrous Civ IV's specs were at release...
Re:A veteran Civilization fan... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously? That's too much for you? I'm sorry that you haven't bought (or upgraded) a computer in 4 years, but I don't see why developers should have to cater to you by making their products worse for the rest of us. A system meeting these requirements wouldn't cost more than MAYBE $200 used.
They need better hardware to make the AI smarter, not just for better graphics.
Re:Wine? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? My current operating system runs everything I need fine, including StarCraft II. I'm not a big gamer, I have other things to do with my life, but StarCraft and Civilization are the exceptions to the rule. ;)
And I'll have you know that my neckbeard is quite clean.
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
My review: It forces Steam on your machine. Therefore, it's a "don't purchase" title.
No kidding (Score:4, Insightful)
The only thing on there that is even remotely "heavy hitting" is requiring a discrete graphics card. However if you are a computer gamer, well then you should be well aware that games need a discrete graphics card, and they aren't expensive (A 5750 runs it great and costs $110-130 or so and is current technology).
A dual core with 2GB I consider to be the minimum sort of system you should have these days for desktop usage. It is not expensive, and well worth it. A dual core CPU really makes things much smoother and more responsive, even if you are just doing basic office productivity stuff. The ability for the processor to actually do two things at once is a big gain in terms of responsiveness. RAM is also big performance wise, and really cheap. I recommend 4GB, even for desktop usage, but 2GB minimum. Less than that and you are swapping when you don't need to.
Those are NOT onerous system requirements, particularly for a game. They aren't demanding the highest end system. Hell even their recommend requirements are tame: 1.8GHz quad, 4GB of ram and a 4800/9800 series GPU.
Personally, I'd say if you can't afford a dual core system and a mid range graphics card from a few generations ago, you probably can't afford a new $50 game either. In that case, stick with Civ 4 or Civ 3 (or 2 or 1). They haven't stopped working. You can still play them. Hell if I end up not liking Civ 5's gameplay and can't mod it to my likes, I'll go back to Civ 4 since I do like it.
I do not find it very legit to whine about not having the rather reasonable system requirements, while still saying that $50 is a fine price to spend. Save that $50 for a better computer, something that will do better for EVERYTHING you do, rather than spending it on a new game.
Re:A veteran Civilization fan... (Score:5, Insightful)
You are in grad school and have three kids. When were you planning on playing video games?
How in the hell can that possibly be praise? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't want three blind men describing an elephant incorrectly. I want Civ.
Goddammit stop being so happy you guys (Score:5, Insightful)
That's all I ever want.
Nothing else.
Just that.
PCGamer review: braindead AI (Score:4, Insightful)
For single player, wait for an expansion to fix the AI. The review in PCGamer said the AI does really stupid things with its combat units, like send them headlong into battle without regard to unit type, so its ranged units go right up to your melee units, and its melee units get trapped behind its own ranged units. The game balance is preserved simply by giving computer players more units. Given that this is the most tactical Civ yet (due to elimination of unit stacking), it's clear from the review it suffers even more from AI limitations than Civ IV did (before the Civ IV expansions).
Re:Interesting but short article (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you think Starcraft II is more complicated than it really is. Think about it, honestly...what is there to keep track of behind the scenes, second by second? Hit points, unit locations, resources, and build queues. That's about it. Now look at a Civ game, and all of the things that simultaneously happen each time one turn ends and another begins.
You honestly think there is less to compute in a Civ game than in Starcraft II, just because Civ is turn based?
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because that's providing all the wrong incentives. If you financially reward those who put DRM on their games, you'll just keep getting DRMd games. Simply refusing to buy punishes those who put DRM on their games at essentially no cost to yourself, since there are always other ways to entertain yourself.
I don't particularly care that the publisher demands DRM. That publisher, and any developers they sign, do not get my money. If you're a developer and you want my money, don't sign with a publisher that requires DRM. It's that simple.
Re:Color Blindness Support? (Score:4, Insightful)
It blocked installs till 10 AM local time too (Score:5, Insightful)
One person on CIV Fanatics reported they got the game early but were unable to install it till the appointed time. Steam blocked them.
To me this is unacceptable. They had the boxed game. We have a DRM system which states that that is not enough to play a game. They reserve the right with thirty days notification to change/void the agreement.
In other words, they can prevent you from using the product you purchased. No longer is the $50 for having a game you can play when and where you want to, it only applies when and where they permit you.
Steam is invasive and essentially arbitrary.
I did find it humorous how many derided the retailer at being at fault for selling the game. With users like this what hope is there for the old model.
Re:CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT (Score:5, Insightful)
The only way you got to Mega cities was mostly to do with keeping people happy, not so much about keeping them fed, and since Religion gave you an early burst in happiness, you had a more productive city than everyone else, so you generated more research, and were able to get a great person sooner (usually a priest! no doubt). Then they get to Monarchy sooner so they can just do that "military keeps people happy" civic and then they've got an a mega city that works because its so well defended. So then whoever gets the first priest ends up using the priest to get another religion. And Bam, before you know it, One person has founded 4 or 5 of the religions, and has an amazing economy because of it, has good culture to spread better than you can, and has the happiness available to use slavery to catch up on the infrastructure
Historically, that strategy worked pretty out well for the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Chinese, and many others.
Re:Interesting but short article (Score:3, Insightful)
You forgot real-time path finding with a horde of units interfering with each other.
Now look at a Civ game, and all of the things that simultaneously happen each time one turn ends and another begins.
What simultaneously happens? The unit orders are sequenced.
You honestly think there is less to compute in a Civ game than in Starcraft II, just because Civ is turn based?
Well, um, YES. There's a difference between localized, separate battles at the end of every turn versus battles that update dozens of times a second all over the map. That you have thought about this and tried to equate the two is mind boggling.
I'll give the shortened version (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It blocked installs till 10 AM local time too (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, because of one person, who got prereleased game ahead of schedule, you're not going to buy any Steam games because of some nefarious potential problem that may, or may not ever exist.
First off, I have no problems with Steam or Apple or some other DRM that is minimally invasive. It is a fact of life. The key for me is that I don't need to be logged into Steam Servers to play the game, except for the one time activation. Seems reasonable to me.
I find it humorous how many people complain about non-existent "potential" problems.
Car Analogy: You should not drive a car because you may be in an accident, which is part of the great big evil conspiracy by the Insurance Companies, Oil Companies, Car Companies to get you to buy new cars, pay money on regular basis etc. After all there is potential for something bad happening.
Re:It blocked installs till 10 AM local time too (Score:3, Insightful)
Which has nothing to do with steam. The publisher had steam set a run date.
Other then someone trying to install the game before the publisher want's you to, steam does not restrict you from playing.
It sounds like the seller violate their agreement with the distributor/publisher.If that is the case, then it is the sellers fault for selling an item they know wouldn't work.
Steam is not invasive...yes, it is fairly arbitrary. In that the publisher wants some sort of DRM so they select steam.
There is the practical matter that games are focusing more on online play, so servers need to be ready as possible. They can not do that with out a specific date.
The only issue I have with steam is my inability to transfer a game I no longer want to play. .. a 'Family' Account would be nice as well. I kind of offset that by waiting for steep discounts.
Re:Interesting but short article (Score:3, Insightful)
What simultaneously happens? The unit orders are sequenced.
Economic calculations. Research calculations. Diplomatic calculations. Borders expanding/contracting. Etc, etc, etc. These things don't just happen on their own...every little nuance, every single little piece of data you see in a Civilization game (which, lets face it, can be overwhelming at times) has to be calculated.
Well, um, YES. There's a difference between localized, separate battles at the end of every turn versus battles that update dozens of times a second all over the map.
A map that, by comparison to an endgame Civilization map, is pretty small. You are also still continuing to focus on just fighting. You do know there's far more to Civilization games than just fighting...right?
That you have thought about this and tried to equate the two is mind boggling.
I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, I'm not saying you're right or wrong... I'm just saying that there's more going on behind the scenes in a Civilization game than you realize.
Re:It blocked installs till 10 AM local time too (Score:5, Insightful)
That's entirely correct. It proves there's a way for steam to decide when you can and can't run the game. Just the fact it's possible at all is so loathsome I will never pay a cent for such a thing.
No, it's not a "fact of life". It's an arbitrary limit imposed by the company which could not be there.
Activation is unreasonable. What if the activation server goes away in 5 years from now? I still play 10 year old games sometimes.
Because those potential problems were demonstrated multiple times to be actual problems. Like the several music services with DRM that went out of business and left people unable to play the music they paid for.
A car that never crashes is not possible due to the "fact of life" as you put it, that wear exists, humans and roads aren't perfect and so on.
However, DRM is an entirely artificial addition and there's no physical law that says it has to be there.
Re:My Review... (Score:3, Insightful)
Reminds me of my play style in Civ II - I stay peaceful for most of the game, often only exploding into conflict in the modern era. Railroads help troop movements; this and some other things seem to make waiting be in the human player's favor.
Re:Interesting but short article (Score:2, Insightful)
But let me play, even if it takes 5 minutes between turns instead of 1.
The only thing that can't be slowed down is the graphics.
Re:DRM? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A little thought experiment (Score:3, Insightful)
There's psychological value in owning a game that's worth a lot more than $1.30. I'm simply going to be happier playing my game, as opposed to one that's been lent to me, even for free.
Public libraries work for a lot of people. They have no problem getting a book, reading it, and never touching it again. Other people buy books and hang on to them, spending thousands of dollars amassing a private library that they can refer to whenever they need. Steam may be a good option for the first group, but it will never fly with the second.
Re:Dollars per hour (Score:3, Insightful)
I can go down to the library and borrow a book for 0 dollars. By your logic this must be the utmost value proposition in entertainment. 0 dollars per hour, you can't get any better than that. Yet people continue to spend money on books they can keep forever. Why is that? Figure that out and you'll understand why Steam isn't acceptable to many of us.