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Role Playing (Games) Games

Square Enix Attempting Final Fantasy XIV Damage Control 215

Posted by Soulskill
from the better-get-cid dept.
basscomm writes "Just the other day, it was discussed here on Slashdot that Final Fantasy XIV was released into the world as a buggy, incomplete mess. Now, it's been announced that due to 'generous amounts of player feedback' that lots of changes are coming (honest!). And, as a result, anyone who registers their game before October 25th will have their 30-day trial upgraded to a 60-day trial. But will it be enough to keep the game from hemorrhaging players once the free trials end?"
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Square Enix Attempting Final Fantasy XIV Damage Control

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  • by DWMorse (1816016) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:37AM (#33917448) Homepage
    Not to be pessimistic, but I don't think it's possible to completely rewrite the game in just a few weeks.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kurokame (1764228)
      There won't be, it's a "we're fixing it, honest!" announcement. The problems that don't relate to the core design may get fixed within a year or two if it's still running and receiving enough funding / staff to do anything on that scale.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Pharmboy (216950)

        But are they spending time fixing the game, or their reputation? Politicians are famous for the latter (and Apple, as of late). The former requires a bit more thought and time.

    • by RogueyWon (735973) * on Saturday October 16, 2010 @10:56AM (#33917970) Journal

      Indeed. They've got some very, very serious rethinking to do just to get the game to a state where playing it doesn't cause actual pain. I'd say that the top priorities would need to be:

      - A complete overhaul of the user-interface, rewriting it from the ground up. There is basically nothing in the current UI that strikes me as salvagable.
      - Implementation of an auction house or equivalent feature to allow for an actually-workable player-based economy.
      - Performance tuning so that the thing actually runs in a sensible way on even high end PCs. There's a huge mismatch at the moment between the quality of the visuals and the level of performance that a high end gaming PC can achieve.
      - Servers spread around the world, so that the game doesn't feel worse and worse the further you are from Japan.
      - Various other major bugfixes, particularly a fix to the "can't alt-tab out of full-screen mode" bug, which was present in FFXI as well.

      Those strike me as an extremely fundamental set of changes, some of which would involve substantial rewrites of the game engine. Moreover, doing all of that would not guarantee the game's success. It would just pull it up to the kind of level where it doesn't feel actively broken. Even after doing all of that, the game still wouldn't even have begun to compete with the likes of WoW, Eve Online or LotR:O.

      Given that Square-Enix never really made any fundamental changes to the FFXI formula over the years (beyond belatedly adding a windowed-mode option), I can't honestly see they'll even be able to get over the first hurdle. This game looks doomed to me.

  • by Lord Byron II (671689) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:37AM (#33917452)

    From the reviews I read it sounds like the entire concept was borked. The game itself is buggy, the installation is a mess, the game play is boring and tedious. One review I saw showed a five minute gameplay clip where the character was being relentlessly attacked by butterflies.

    • by poetmatt (793785)

      actually, no. The concept was great. The implementation was shit.

      Menus that are 9-15 deep, where you can't move while navigating them is beyond retarded. There is zero reason square had to design things like that except "it was for the console" and thus they bombed.

      • by Moryath (553296) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @10:34AM (#33917818)

        The underlying problem is, Final Fantasy doesn't belong in an MMO. And after the way FF13 ("world's most advanced corridor simulator, fuck even the illusion that you have sidequests") turned out, Square had better turn things around in a big way or 15 will be the final nail in the franchise.

        • by numbski (515011)

          Glad to see at least someone agrees with me on 13. Final Fantasy 12 hit what I feel to be the pinnacle of FF's battle system. It took some getting used to at first, admittedly. Once you have all of the gambits, the thing almost plays on remote control - BUT, at least it's a remote control that you choose.

          FF13? Auto-Battle. Auto-Battle. Auto-Battle. Can I choose what they do when I hit Auto-Battle? No? Herky-jerky in-and-out of the battle system, which in FF12 became a seamless thing.

          HUGE steps back

          • by Daetrin (576516) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @03:09PM (#33919582)
            Well part of the problem is that everyone agrees FF13 was rather busted, but people can't agree on _how_. I loved the open world of FF12, but i _hated_ the combat engine. Just program the AI and sit back and do nothing. I thought FF13 actually fixed the combat, at least _after_ the 10-20 hour "tutorial" was finished. I do miss the turn based battles (though that was something FF12 didn't have either) and not being able to directly control the other characters, but at least i felt like i was actively involved in the combat. To me a great game would be FF12's world and story (except maybe focused on Basch instead of Vaan, like they'd originally planed) but FF13's combat and leveling. Or FF10's combat and leveling. Anything but the boring mess that was FF12's system.

            Obviously that kind of game wouldn't appeal to you however, which is why Squenix is always going to be upsetting _someone_ when they make a new game. It's kind of unfortunate however when they manage to upset _everyone_, which seems to have happened somewhat with FF13 and even more so with FF14.
        • The problem isn't with the franchise or the lore not belonging in an MMO. In reality the lore is perfect for an MMO, it's rich and it provides for a very diverse base to build exactly what an MMO needs, depth and story. The problem is 100% one of implementation and the completely disregard for the proper way to build an MMO in the first place.

          SE flat out didn't listen to the audience through beta when the vast problems were pointed out, very clearly. Simple things like the "locking" into an encounter

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Omestes (471991)

            What lore?

            Last time I checked Final Fantasy didn't even have a continuing story, each game is stand alone and completely unrelated to every previous game (not counting the fan service sequel on the PS2)

            But then again I gave up on Final Fantasy after IX, when I noticed that my love of the game was almost 100% NES/SNES nostalgia. The only thing I miss about the series (and JRPGs in general) is that their great for being lazy, you don't have to actually do combat, you just navigate menus. Sometimes that is

          • by tsm_sf (545316)
            It's amazing that people still don't realize how important jumping is to game immersion. It's usually the main way you interact with the z axis in a game.
        • by IICV (652597)

          Well I mean just look at all the previous Final Fantasies - they're literally the anti-MMO. No options, no sidequests, no choice; your only states are advancing the main plot or grinding. Even when you're given the ability to roam freely over the entire planet, the only thing to do is advance the plot.

          Yes, they'll occasionally throw in some sidequests, optional bosses or what have you, but those are inevitably tiny and stunted. A single boss battle, a couple of characters, that's pretty much it. Sure, Final

  • by SudoGhost (1779150)
    Is it sad that those little characters on the side didn't make me think of Final Fantasy, but 8-Bit Theatre instead?
  • by ThePolkapunk (826529) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:41AM (#33917472) Homepage
    I already stopped my subscription to FFXIV. Even though I still had two weeks left before 30 day trial would've been over, they already disabled my logon. To me, this seems inexcusably bad. I paid for the game, which includes 30 days and they haven't given that to me. There's no way I'll be coming back.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hedwards (940851)
      Unfortunately, that's not that much worse than the status quo. Subscription based services rarely if ever give you money back for unused time if you cancel early. Carbonite kind of pissed me off in that the service seemed fine through the trial, but later on when it was trying to cope with more data I started to see problems which you wouldn't see during the trial.

      But outright disabling the account before the paid time is up is dickish.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by JorDan Clock (664877)
        Refunding for unused time? Yeah, that's pretty much never done. But so is blocking use of an account just because you cancelled your subscription before your paid for time is up. In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard of a game (or any other subscription service) working like this. It's like Square-Enix has never bothered to even READ about another MMO beside FFXI and is trying to reinvent the wheel. Only its a square.
        • by Tridus (79566) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @10:46AM (#33917898) Homepage

          Square is a highly insular company. They seem to think that they still know what they're doing and that the market hasn't moved on from 2003. There's no excuse for a UI this terrible in 2010 when you can do better simply by ripping off what everyone else is doing.

          FF 11's UI was bad for its time. For a modern game it's a disgrace.

        • Usually, if you read the fine print, the 30 day trial 'offer' is only valid if you pay for at least one month of service. The fact that he could cancel his account before actually paying any money is what's unheard of. They're still dicks, but not as big dicks as they could be.
          • by Rogerborg (306625)
            The size of their dickishnes is dwarfed by the magnitude of their stupidity. The guy is already a customer, but instead of trying to retain him, they (effectively) tell him to go fuck himself. It's bad business sense - retention is far cheaper than recruitment. Especially while your ex-customers are warning off potential ones.
        • by hvm2hvm (1208954)
          Blizzard doesn't do that. If you get 30 days from the subscription you keep them even after you cancel it. I used the subscription method because I could pay 30 days at a time (my schedule is variable). And then I'd often cancel weeks in advance because I wasn't sure I could be playing another 30days after the first month and didn't want to forget and have them billing me for nothing.
        • by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @12:16PM (#33918518)

          Back in the Verant days, yes, MMOs were dicks to their players and that was ok (well ok in that people would put up with it). You canceled your account, they deleted your character and other silly punitive measures like that. However WoW showed everyone that isn't how you do things. You be nice to players. Cancel your account in a rage? No problem you can keep playing for all your paid time. You wanna come back later, even years later? No problem, all your characters are just as you left them, database space is cheap. Get really mad and delete your characters? No problem, they can be recovered from backup. Someone steal your account and sell all your hard earned shit? No problem, they can trace that and recover to an earlier state.

          That is how things should be done and, no surprise, what gamers want now. Once Blizzard started doing that, other companies learned. SOE went and screamed at EQ's developers and producers and they went and recovered all the deleted characters and sent out a "Please come back and play we've restored your shit," e-mail and EQ and EQ2 now operate similar to WoW.

          Square sounds like they are still in the old "Us vs them," mentality. The users are the enemy, and if they do something you don't like, such as cancel their account, they need to be punished. No, sorry guys. As a subscription service with lots of competitors, you are in the customer service business. That means making your customers happy PARTICULARLY your angry ones. If someone leaves in a huff, you want to be nice to them. Tell them "We're sorry to see you go, feel free to play out the remaining time, and come back any time you like." Maybe then later they change their mind. If you are a dick about it, more likely they do write you off forever.

          Also I could potentially see this opening them up for a lawsuit. If the agreement is X dollars buys you Y days of access, and there are no refunds for partial time, then I can't see how it is ok to refuse to provide the complete paid time. If I call and cancel my cable, they'll shut it off immediately. However they will also refund all unused time. If I call and cancel my AC service contract, they won't refund my money, but it'll continue for the rest of the time I've paid.

          • Back in the Verant days, yes, MMOs were dicks to their players and that was ok (well ok in that people would put up with it). You canceled your account, they deleted your character and other silly punitive measures like that. However WoW showed everyone that isn't how you do things. You be nice to players. Cancel your account in a rage? No problem you can keep playing for all your paid time. You wanna come back later, even years later? No problem, all your characters are just as you left them, database space is cheap. Get really mad and delete your characters? No problem, they can be recovered from backup. Someone steal your account and sell all your hard earned shit? No problem, they can trace that and recover to an earlier state.

            That is how things should be done and, no surprise, what gamers want now. Once Blizzard started doing that, other companies learned. SOE went and screamed at EQ's developers and producers and they went and recovered all the deleted characters and sent out a "Please come back and play we've restored your shit," e-mail and EQ and EQ2 now operate similar to WoW.

            EQ did a lot of dumb things. Looking back, I often wonder why I bothered playing through such painful design decisions. The only reason I can come up with is I liked the idea of an MMRPG so much that I played despite the design, not because of it (not to mention that every following MMRPG tried to copy EQ's minor success by making the same boneheaded design decisions as EQ did, all the way up until WoW came on the scene and shook things up). When I speak of the game, it's the same way that I might speak

            • Well with EQ I can only deal with my experience. I played it for a time, got pissed off at the continual shitting on the players and left. Just canceled the account, nothing dramatic. Some time later, probably a year or so (pre WoW), coworkers tried to get me back in. I said sure, since I happened to have been on the same server as them and time causes us to remember the good parts more than the bad. Figured it would be fun with other players I knew. Went and started things up, and my characters were gone.

    • by mrmeval (662166)

      That's actionable, you should check and see if a hungry shark...er lawyer can cobble up a class action suit for all the other people they've done that to and force attorney's fees and a full refund.

  • by Wain13001 (1119071) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:44AM (#33917492)

    As a long time player of FFXI, as well as several other MMORPGs, my feelings were that a lot of the highly negative reviews were really harping on subjects that for the most part were irrelevant. That being said there is a LOT of work necessary to get this game going. I was about to cancel my subscription and wait 6 months and see where they were at.

    AH, Interface issues, Repeating terrain graphics are all things that actually didn't matter much to me. I don't mind having to learn a new way of doing things for a new game. What got me frustrated quickly was that the world seemed to have no content.

    One of the things I like about FF games is that when you're in a large city it tends to be well-developed, with lots of weird little quests among various townsfolk, and lots of hints about up and coming content that you won't see for hours, levels, or even at all depending on how you play. None of that is present in the game currently. Every step of the one major town quest (which is a chainquest) feels like a tutorial exercise (which it is of course)...not like environment deepening material.

    The world is simply not alive enough. If you run around outside there are few monsters...no killer bunnies...95% of the mobs are instantly generated for a specific person's grind-quest and aren't attackable by anyone else.

    I love FFXI, I love slow worldly feeling MMOs and regular RPGs, but at this point the game is a series of grindy-quests that you pick and choose at with no end-goal in sight...there is one story-arc quest line that gives you very little and reoccurs in your progression extremely infrequently.

    At the moment the game feels like they got their basic systems down, but they've got nothing actually in the game that's game-like yet.

    • by _xeno_ (155264)

      You're kidding about the missing AH not being an issue, right? The entire crafting system in the game is set up to have higher level crafters creating materials for lower level crafters to use, along with crafts requiring materials from different crafting classes to create things. With no auction house, and a completely nonfunctional marketplace system that they have no intention of fixing, this makes crafting basically impossible.

      Throw in the fact that basically all new gear comes from crafting, and you've

      • I'm not saying the AH isn't an issue, just that it isn't one that concerned me terribly, I have no doubt that even if square wasn't planning to keep working with their current market system in hopes to replace the AH idea that players would work out a way to handle the situation.

        The fact that people are still arguing about whether or not an AH is necessary (there are people in both camps), and that square is trying to find a new method shows me that this overall is a mild point...it is being worked on and d

        • by Moridin42 (219670)

          The AH is a MAJOR issue. Player-player exchanges are really important to facilitate in MMOs. FFXI had one of the better ones. Although, still distant second to the EVE market. But they had one, and it was pretty good. How the hell can they at all justify shipping without one now?

          There could be great content waiting for you, but if you can't find the gear to help you get ready for it then what good is it? If you have to offload your junk to the NPC vendors at their depressed prices so you have to farm 3x the

        • by Tridus (79566)

          Few people who aren't rabid fanboys aren't arguing that an AH isn't necessary. Even the devs seem to have figured it out now that they're promising to add a search function (which is the most basic feature of an AH).

          When the game's crafting and itemization are both built around being able to make things, which other players use to make bigger things, which are then sold, a minor detail like "you can't actually find what you want to buy" is a rather big deal. It's almost as stupid a design decision as the la

      • by Shadow99_1 (86250)

        Having been in the beta... I can say they ignored everything we told them to. Heck by the last beta phase the game still wasn't working well enough to be a conventional beta and we said so. Which by the way wasn't easy whoever designed their forums probably did work on the games UI... We told them it wasn't ready for launch, we'd barely been able to even test it as often as it wasn't working at a server level...

        The worst part is it looks so nice at a character level you want the game to work. Square proves

  • How bad is it? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kjella (173770) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:53AM (#33917552) Homepage

    Let's say what gamerankings says:
    Final Fantasy XIV: 51.43% [gamerankings.com]
    Daikatana: 54.08% [gamerankings.com]

    That's a "throw it in the garbage bin and start over" rating.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Well, it's not as bad as the N64 version of Daikatana.

      So, they got that going for 'em.

    • I'm afraid gamerankings is broken: it has Civilization V at over 90%, even though most of those who played it long enough (i.e. at least 350 turns) have run into the various crashes, the 69 city limit, the large map crashes, the extremely limited (moronic?) AI etc.

      • by Rogerborg (306625)
        You appear to have just argued that Gamerankings rates too highly. If you had a point to make, I think you've just fallen on it.
        • Not too highly, just wrongly. There are plenty of games that are generally well-loved by their respective community, and have a lower mark than Civilization V, which is generally hated by its community (and for good reason).

  • by TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:55AM (#33917570) Journal

    ... I would like them to perform this kind of damage control. You know, the kind of damage control that involves listening to your user-base.

    Mind you, it's not like they had a choice.

  • by whoda (569082) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @09:57AM (#33917590) Homepage

    Holy shit, they aren't even releasing the patch for over a month?
      I don't even play this and that sounds absolutely ridiculous.

    • by Ant P. (974313)

      Yeah, once they've got rid of everyone on the current 30 day thing they can restart as if nothing happened!

    • by _xeno_ (155264) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @11:06AM (#33918058) Homepage Journal

      Yeah, and that patch is basically full of bug fixes and things that should never have missed beta. Like being able to sort your inventory or reply to tells.

      Also note that "late November" is just long enough for the extended free trial to have run out.

    • by Trepidity (597)

      I'd be more worried about whether it's actually going to come out in late November with the promised features. If you look over the list, it's much more than a bugfix release; they're promising to do major surgery on the game, add missing features, etc.

  • by dominion (3153) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @10:07AM (#33917672) Homepage

    Now would be the time to announce PS3 remakes of Final Fantasy VI and VII, available together for $29.

    • by DWMorse (1816016)

      I'm such a whore for those two games in particular, I'd buy 'em. (Assuming the graphics were updated, and updated ONLY the graphics. We don't want "gameplay improvements" tyvm.)

      Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the fact that PSXeven + some ISO's pulled from my FFVI and VII discs make the games themselves playable on any computer I'll own for a long, long time. But let's face it, FFVII is farking DISGUSTINGLY UGLY at 1600x1200. Argh.

      • The PS3 download version is more ugly. ePSXe lets me screw with video options till I get it looking better. PS3 has one option: full screen blur.

        on an unrelated note, I think the PS3's software emulation of psx games is based heavily on ePSXe, based on graphical/game glitches i've seen common to both.
    • by ShakaUVM (157947)

      Eh, FF7 is the same linear crap that made FF13 so horrid. I recall looking at a long path I had to run back along and realized it was going to eat the next hour of my life.

      I actually liked how FF1 gave a better illusion of freedom than FF7. Make a new FF1 style game and they have a winner. People only like FF7 because of their bishonen slash fantasies.

  • by Tridus (79566) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @10:37AM (#33917836) Homepage

    Having played this game and read the list of "updates", they don't have a prayer. The "updates" are more like basic features and UI stuff that no serious MMO would launch without.

    - They're adding a way to "search retainers in a ward for specific items." aka: Functionality like an auction house. It's good that they're adding this. It's not good that they launched the game with a system that was so completely and fundamentally broken at the design level that it never should have been let out of alpha. Seriously, someone thought it was a good idea to make players wander around from retainer to retainer in the hope of finding item that they need, in a game where crafting is heavily dependent on player made inputs? Have these people ever played a MMO?

    - They're also adding a shortcut to reply to whisper messages directly. Which is good, since you can't right now. Again, who ever heard of a MMO where you can't reply to messages? This isn't rocket science, it's the most basic chat functionality on the planet. (While they're at it they should make message size limits something slightly larger then a twitter message.)

    - They're adding a way to let you scroll the map with the mouse. Seriously. Go read it yourself. You can't scroll the map with a mouse. In a PC game. I can't make shit this stupid up.

    These are just some of the changes. They're also hitting the broken targetting system (target, pick a spell, then... target again? For real? Who thought this up?). Hopefully they do something about the poor performance and terrible stability of the client. But it won't matter.

    You only get one chance to make an impression in the MMO market. Recovering from the perception that you've got a bad game is extremely difficult after the fact. This game has nothing going for it except that it's pretty (if you spend enough on a computer that can actually run it with acceptable performance). In basically every other area, it's inferior to that other game that has 12 million players and just happens to have an expansion launching at the same time as the patch that will add basic functionality to FF 14.

    And if you get past that, shortly after there's some Star Wars MMO coming out. Between those two games, a buggy PS3 port with the worst UI a MMO has ever seen has no chance of recovering. It'll be running at 80,000 subs (if they're lucky) in 6 months. Fortunately for them, it's really meant as a PS3 game anyway and on the PS3 the competition is much weaker.

    • - They're adding a way to "search retainers in a ward for specific items." aka: Functionality like an auction house. It's good that they're adding this. It's not good that they launched the game with a system that was so completely and fundamentally broken at the design level that it never should have been let out of alpha. Seriously, someone thought it was a good idea to make players wander around from retainer to retainer in the hope of finding item that they need, in a game where crafting is heavily dependent on player made inputs? Have these people ever played a MMO?

      - They're also adding a shortcut to reply to whisper messages directly. Which is good, since you can't right now. Again, who ever heard of a MMO where you can't reply to messages? This isn't rocket science, it's the most basic chat functionality on the planet. (While they're at it they should make message size limits something slightly larger then a twitter message.)

      I never played FFXIV, but it sounds like they hired the developers of most korean MMORPGs to design and code their interfaces...

      • by Rogerborg (306625)

        I never played FFXIV, but it sounds like they hired the developers of most korean MMORPGs to design and code their interfaces...

        Bingo! Which also means that by the time the PS3 launch hits, 90% of the PC 'players' will be farmer bots. Heck, maybe that's their plan - outsource the AI to the h4xx0rz.

    • by _xeno_ (155264)

      They're also adding a shortcut to reply to whisper messages directly.

      The funny thing is that, yes you can. It's bugged as hell. Control-R currently pulls up a tell to the last person you sent a tell to, not who sent a tell to you. So basically, they're listing a bug fix as a feature.

      (While they're at it they should make message size limits something slightly larger then a twitter message.)

      The going theory is that the limit was designed for Japanese text. Because it's fairly clear that Square Enix never has and never will listen to feedback from outside of Japan. (Even this is them responding to complaints from Japan.)

      (target, pick a spell, then... target again? For real? Who thought this up?)

      You can skip the first "target" step, technically, although you

    • Have these people ever played a MMO?

      They're Japanese, so probably not. I still think it was a mistake for Square to shut down their US centric studio. If they'd have kept that up they'd have some Americans working for them that actually know about table top RPG's and MMORPG's. Did you know that JRPG's weren't inspired directly by D&D but second hand via games like Ultima, Bards Tale and Wizardry?

      Reading your info about the game makes me think that FFXI is the better Square-Enix MMORPG since it has mo

  • Lesson one is: Set up servers in specific geographical locations. Players do not want to play with 1200-1500ms latency. Players do not like it when they lose the competitive advantage because of something they have no control over.

    Lesson two is: Do not release the game until it is finished. Finished means having end-game content on release. It is essential that the hardcore players feel comfortable from the beginning... THEY are the foundation of your game's diversity because they are the ones who t
    • by Rogerborg (306625) on Saturday October 16, 2010 @01:00PM (#33918820) Homepage

      Counter-point one: the Japanese people are basically Klingons - they hate and despise everyone else, and will have no problems in tilting the playing field in favour of the Homeland. Japanese studios would rather lose 100 US subscribers due to unplayable than one domestic one due to being pwned by gaijin scum, not because it makes financial sense, but just because we are Klingons.

      Counter-point two: the PC release is just a beta for the PS3 version. There are six PCs in the whole of Japan, and five of them are used exclusively for hentai. Nothing that happens on PC matters. I doubt they'll even support the PC after the PS3 version ships.

      Counter point three: the players who matter have no expectations, beyond being able to dick around with midget cat rabbits, or whatever the hell those munchkins in FF are. The players who matter are all Japanese, although Wapanese are also welcome as long as they don't get uppity. Being insular is an implicit design goal, not a failure.

  • Having played the beta, I have to ask this: where were the promised changes during the HUGE amounts of feedback given that the game was going to suck? Reading the beta test boards, people were saying left and right that major game changes needed to be made, or else the game was going to flop.

    Square-enix pretty much ignored the majority of the feedback. And now they're scrambling to fix things that, had they listened, could have been fixed well before the game went live.

    • by garylian (870843)

      I hate to tell you this, but SE is no different from just about every other MMO maker out there when it comes to player feedback during the closed beta. Yes, they do read what you send them. Most of the time, they fail to do what the players suggest.

      Blizzard added the Paladin's talent trees in a final version less than 2 weeks from WoW's launch. So, they got no feedback that they could really use to make changes to the tree, because nobody had enough time to test everything, give feedback, and give Blizz

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