UK Games Retailers Threaten Boycott of Steam Games 443
RogueyWon writes "Games industry trade site MCV is reporting that two major UK video games retailers are threatening to ban Steam-enabled PC games from their stores. The as-yet-unnamed retailers are apparently concerned that by selling Steam games, they are pointing their customers towards a competitor and will by trying to bring pressure upon publishers to strip Steam functionality from their games. This could prove an interesting test of where the real power lies at the retail end of PC gaming."
Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
More sales for Steam then?
Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:5, Insightful)
Publishers are creating a monster – we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.
No, publishers are finding new innovative revenue streams that cater to the customer. The only reason it's a 'monster' is because you perceive it to be a threat to your business model and, surprise surprise, you're not a part of that revenue stream so it's the devil. And you don't understand it, that is painfully evident by the 'stop using Steam in their games' part of your statement. They don't use Steam in their games anymore than they use Wal-Mart in their games.
... you aren't going to get very far in my book. I mean, Steam has DRM but it saves me gas and money and puts me a little closer to that little developer that spends countless nights slaving away over code. That's where I want the bulk of my money to go when I purchase a game -- to that guy.
If you understood that this is increasing revenue and profits to the publishers, you might also start to see that it increases the number of copies sold. Now, if more people are buying the game it is possible that Steam will expand this market and leave some of the sales to the brick and mortar stores. It is, however, a possibility that you are correct in that your model will become obsolete -- such is the nature of business. You can either respond by being a jerk about it (although you're holding aces backed with eights as a large middle man), you can attempt to become part of that distribution model (have you thought about selling steam gift cards?) or you can do nothing. If you lose your business, well that's just some good old structural unemployment where the hostile market of capitalism violently guides you to better serve the consumer in a new and -- here's the scary word -- innovative ways. Seriously though, when is the last time you did something new and interesting aside from unboxing the latest game and paying some high school student minimum wage to set up the Halo display and cardboard cutouts?
Hey man, if you want to make me pick between you, the distributor, and the publishers that actually make the games I cherish
A store? What's that? (Score:5, Insightful)
I haven't bought anything in a real store for ages, PC-games-wise. Why bother? All they stock is the expensive shit and anything older than 3 months is in the "Pre-owned", scratched-to-death pile and still costs 2/3rds of its original price. Plus a lot of PC gear can't be played second-hand anyway (and not because of Steam but because of other DRM) so there is no "cheap" game available in those shops.
I just order a retail box online (rare anyway) or I just buy from Steam or GOG. Stop charging me £60+ for a game that'll last a couple of hours and start stocking things that sell. Steam make a killing by selling things like PopCap games, World of Goo, Altitude, etc. - I never, ever see those in the shops and if I do, it's on a shelf in a big department store, not in the "games" store. You aren't complaining about XBox Live or PSN, so you can't really complain about Steam either. The fact is, though, that anything you do stock in my price range I'm more likely to be buying it online - quicker, cheaper, easier.
Give it up - either charge sensible prices, increase your stock range to appeal to customers or damn well concentrate on games console where you make an absolute FORTUNE.
The real power is the individual (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't like Steam, so I've never bought any Steam delivered games.
I rarely, if ever, buy products from companies I dislike.
Irony...given the used game article (Score:5, Insightful)
A couple months ago we heard how game stores were using used games to cut the publishers out of the revenue stream for a game. They were buying back games for $10 and reselling them for $45 and pocketing 100% of the $35.
There was a great brouhaha.
Now the return shot. Game publishers intent to cut game stores out of the first sale AND not publish any physical copies to resale.
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:4, Insightful)
The value added is for the publisher ; by locking your game to a Steam account, it's now not resaleable. Which is what this fuss is all about - most of the revenue in these stores comes from second-hand games trading.
I suppose you do also get some other benefits - if you lose the media, you'll still be able to reinstall the game from the content network.
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to have a little faith and say that Steam is going to continue to be strong just because it is what it is, but historically, power corrupts...
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:3, Insightful)
The only thing that worries me about this whole thing is resale.
I like to buy second hand games, I occasionally like to be able to sell them, or loan them to friends, or whatever. Much like with books. Steam doesn't really do that AFAICT.
Steam is certainly not designed to allow this. Which is good for folks who release their games on Steam, as there's no secondary market of used games. It's bad for retailers, however, since they make so much more money off used games.
You can, however, sell a Steam account just fine. Just like people sell WoW accounts. And it is done.
You could, in theory, have a seperate Steam account for each game. Which would allow you to sell each game individually. But it would certainly be a hassle.
They've sown the wind (Score:1, Insightful)
All the wrong reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Although they are doing it for all the wrong reasons, I applaud any effort to stop this Steam juggernaut from becoming the de facto DRM monopoly and the single point-of-failure for entire game collections. It's just not healthy.
One day Steam will go dark, and then you won't be able to reinstall any of those games.
Footnote: "blah, blah, blah,...but they said they'd release a patch....blah, blah, blah". Please show me the legally binding clause in the Steam TOS that guarantees that.
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF?
Ever tried to return a digital download game in the UK?
You can't. Even if the game doesn't work at all in your PC and you are per-UK consumer regulations entitled to a refund (since it's not "fit for purpose"). The digital download company is based in a location with little or no consumer rights (*cough* US *cough*) and they'll basically laugh in your face.
Ever tried to return a store bought game in the UK?
They sometimes bitch and moan a bit, then you say the magic words ("Not fit for purpose" and "Trading Standards") and lo-and-behold - you get your money back.
I for one am pretty damn scared of the rise of Digital Downloads for games and it's associated importing of minimum common-denominator consumer protection laws and do want the option of returning non-functional games that a bricks-and-mortar store gives me. From my point of view, anything that allows those stores to survive is a good thing.
In fact I have been boycotting all games that use Steam for that reason (and because they cannot be given, lent, traded or resold; because they do not work on machines without an Internet connection; because I would like the option to install them in 10 years time if I feel like it; because I do not want that the distributor of the game has the option to remotelly disable my game at will). It's just too bad that most game buyers out there are more than willing to bend-over and pull their pants down in exchange for prettier graphics.
The way I see it, in this sea of ignorant, self-deluded and low IQ consumers, the only chance that the few of us with more than 2 neurons have of, in 20 years time, still being able to return faulty games is if bricks-and-mortars manage to survive.
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:3, Insightful)
Publishers are creating a monster - we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.
No, publishers are finding new innovative revenue streams that cater to the customer. The only reason it's a 'monster' is because you perceive it to be a threat to your business model
Do you enjoy being able to nip down to the shop to buy a game? That's all over if Valve has its way with you via Steam. Do you enjoy being able to resell software? Steam is the beginning of the end of software-as-a-product.
Steam is a monster. It's cute and fuzzy but it'll still be happy to chew you up and spit out all but your wallet if you only let it grow big enough.
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:2, Insightful)
The main value-add for the customer is that a higher percentage of each transaction actually ends up in the pockets of the development house that creates the game software. With time and free competition, this should lead to cheaper games and/or better games. It's increasing the efficiency of the marketplace, and that pretty much always is a win for consumers.
In theory, anyway.
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless of what the numbers are for the cut Steam takes, they're going to undercut Gamestop in the long haul. They don't have the attendant costs of a brick-and-mortar.
Really, Steam may not be perfect (I really wish more online stores were DRM free), but compared to Gamestop and company, they're practically saints. I know which side I'm rooting for.
And as a final thought: How many games actually need to have Steam if they're being sold as physical copies? Wouldn't it be preferable for the gamers if the game disc just installed single player mode without requiring the user has Steam, with the understanding that they can register their key/install Steam for multiplayer?
Re:All the wrong reason (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:5, Insightful)
Steam uses DRM, which is evil, and does not provide a way for customers to resell their games, which is also evil. In addition, it strangles LAN play by requiring an unnecessary internet connection, which adds some more evil to the mix.
I am saddened by the popularity of steam and deeply disappointed by the decisions Valve made regarding their customers' rights and privileges.
Re:Okay... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Okay... (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, if someone wants to hang out in front of your store to trade a game all day, I think you should probably not worry about it. That's a price in time almost no one is going to be willing to pay.
Re:Okay... but you miss the point (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Okay... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not a fan of DRM. It doesn't stop pirates at all, but punishes paying customers.
That being said, 99% of PC games ship with DRM either way. Steam however gives me great sales and digital downloads. So I prefer Steam over the alternatives, such as supporting places like Gamestop which are like pawn shops for kids.
And are you sure gog.com doesn't include any DRM whatsoever? That shocks me. And technically you never own software. You license it.
Re:Okay... (Score:3, Insightful)
GameStop has shit selection of PC games in store, and second hand PC games are useless since the ones that are not tied to a persistent online service(be it Steam, Impulse, GFWL, Ubisoft, etc) have CD keys that in modern times are one online at a time(like original HL) or use limited(like Spore).
Steam is DRM, but it's a reasonable DRM and it provides a service that makes up for the disadvantages of it. Instead of needing to find a pug channel on IRC, load up Xfire, etc, I just search my friends or groups list on Steam to join a game. Instead of needing a CD and a key to install a game when I want to play it, when I want to install a new PC, or when I use a friends PC, I can download from Steam with no hassle.
Ultimately, the service is worth the potential downside. This is the assessment you make for every decision in your life: Does the benefit outweigh the negative? In this case, it emphatically does.
Re:Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
and make every "purchase" nothing more than a really expensive rental.
Almost every game I've purchased on Steam was under $5. Some even less. Never more than $10. Not that expensive as far as a "rental" goes.
Really expensive? (Score:1, Insightful)
If you pay 30 bucks for a game on steam and play it for a year, that is like eight cents a day. Show me any other business that will rent you a game that cheap.
But who pays 30 bucks for a game on steam? Their christmas sales bring prices down to at or blow 5 bucks for last year's new releases.
Buying games from steam (if you are willing to wait for the sales) is about as cheap as it gets.
Re:Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who works at a second-hand store, this is a very rude thing to do,..
Frankly, and without trying to be insulting to you personally, but second hand stores can take that attitude and cram it right up wherever your species traditionally crams things.
As someone who used to manage a retail software store, I can tell you that 8% margins are pretty typical for software and game sales. Second hand stores operate on a 200 - 300% margin because they pay pennies on the dollar for the buyback, then resell for a small discount off new retail. This kid of "poached" transaction may be considered rude by the second hand stores, but it's OBVIOUS and INEVITABLE because you're offering so far below market value for it.
Re:Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, if it'd been offered in Steam and the DRM (which you cry so hard about) keeps the piracy numbers way down -- ultimately the company makes money and piracy is much lower.
I assume you have a source to cite that proves piracy is much lower on Steam DRM'ed games? Because I'm pretty sure everything on Steam is out on the torrents somewhere...
Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men (Score:4, Insightful)
"In fact I have been boycotting all games that use Steam for that reason (and because they cannot be given, lent, traded or resold"
Yup, unless the game publisher wanted to allow it (I'm sure Valve would allow it if the pub wanted it)
"because they do not work on machines without an Internet connection"
Apparently there is offline mode. I've never used it because I have the internet on my PC, but whatever
"because I would like the option to install them in 10 years time if I feel like it"
Anyone else see games pulled over time? I haven't. Half-life 2 came out in 2004 and I can still download and play it on any machine I'm logged into steam on.
"because I do not want that the distributor of the game has the option to remotelly disable my game at will"
Hypothetically possible, but I don't see any publisher being self-suicidal
"It's just too bad that most game buyers out there are more than willing to bend-over and pull their pants down in exchange for prettier graphics"
Vs. what exactly? The games that I buy on Steam are good games, and quite often the same or cheaper than boxed copies of the same thing. I find value in not needing to have boxed copies of software that end up gathering dust 90% of the time.
I think some of the things you listed -could- happen eventually, but not nearly as nefarious as you propose. Steam like many services are in an industry of trust. If we stop trusting Steam, more people will simply stop using it and force developers to stop using it through lack of sales like you seem to be so firm on doing. Developers and publishers hate (real) boycotts. If Steam ever becomes evil I'll stop using them. If you pulled your head out of your butt, you may start to see that the service works just fine as it is.
Re:Okay... (Score:2, Insightful)
I see the entitlement feeling even extends to small private businesses. Your entire business entirely revolves around people being able to freely buy and sell goods, and yet you find it rude. I can see that you would kick someone out doing it in your store - after all, it's your private property, and you can let in whoever you want. But you don't get to control what happens outside your store. Even if it happens to cut into your profit.
You are not entitled to a profit.
Re:Okay... (Score:2, Insightful)
As I said in a post farther down, this has nothing to do with what happens outside of the business I'm conducting - I constantly refer people to craigslist or ebay when they don't like the price or I don't have a particular item. I'm not trying to bend the market to my will - I encourage people to do their research. I never hide my intentions: if someone asks, I'm happy to tell them that, yes, that camera I'm buying from you for $20 I'm going to sell for $50, and that here are the ebay listings that I'm finding and, no, I won't pay you the $200 you bought it for. At the end of the day, I'm just a sales peon working in a slightly different environment. I didn't post that intending to start some kind of crusade-against-people-selling-their-crap, just that, "hey, that's sort of frowned upon. Why not put it up on craigslist and not abuse their facilities if you're feeling ripped off?"
Here is my other post: http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1864094&cid=34198896 [slashdot.org]
Re:Okay... (Score:3, Insightful)
And yet I have all my Steam games sat wherever I have a connection. I have NO IDEA where my Half-Life CD is but I can play it whenever I feel like it.
yeah, that sucks!