PlayStation 4 'Orbis' Rumors: AMD Hardware, Hostile To Used Games 371
silentbrad writes "Kotaku reports some 'details' about Sony's next console given to them by a 'reliable source.' They say that the console's codename is Orbis, and it is planned for release by the 2013 holiday season. Developers are reportedly being told to plan for an AMD x64 CPU and AMD Southern Islands GPU. Further on, they mention that there will be no PS3 backwards compatibility and, like rumors about the next Xbox, will have anti-used game DRM. Specifically, 'new games for the system will be available one of two ways, either on a Blu-Ray disc or as a PSN download (yes, even full retail titles). If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account. ... If you then decide to trade that disc in, the pre-owned customer picking it up will be limited in what they can do. ... it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction, with consumers having to pay a fee to unlock/register the full game.'"
The sun rises in the east... (Score:5, Insightful)
...Sony cooks up another draconian DRM scheme....
Another brilliant example of not understanding your audience. Used games are part of the lifeblood of the hobby. Make me pay full retail for every game and I will skip the platform.
Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (Score:5, Insightful)
Color me unsurprised. And also not buying.
"Reliable source?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Cost (Score:5, Insightful)
If they're planning on limiting the resale value of games, then they better plan on lowering the price. I know a lot of people who justified spending $40 or $50 on a game because they knew they could sell it for $20 or $30 in 6 months when they got tired of it, making the end cost a reasonable $20 or so. A move like this might end up hurting sales in spite of forcing more people to buy directly from Sony (or Sony's retailers) because a large segment of the market can no longer use the money from selling older games to buy newer ones.
Big companies seem to think that consumers have an endless supply of money to spend on anything and everything they want... no concept of a consumer has $100 to spend on games this year. If titles are $50 each, then only two get sold. If titles are $50, but they can resell each for $25 then three games get sold.
Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it was only two weeks ago someone told me consoles have less restrictive DRM than PC's on slashdot. Excuse me while I go chuckle.
This hostility to used games is *exactly* why you don't buy consoles.
Re:Revolt! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only will retailers revolt...but they're straight go out of business. Gamestop makes the vast majority of its money off of used game sales.
When a large percentage of their income evaporates...it won't bode well for them.
On the flip side, if MS doesn't put this limitation on the next XBOX, sony can probably kiss their console goodbye before it even launches...
Per account??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, this will cause an uproar with families I would think!
Example: Buy game for 2+ children, but each child has own account as they don't want to have their saves touched / overwritten. Find out that game can only be used on child(a) account. Child(b) cries foul, wants his own saves and doesn't want to share etc. Fight breaks out as parent can't game to work on child(b) account.
Now I don't think this will be extremely COMMON to be honest, but I could certainly see some backlash from it! I don't like having other people in the house using my account to play games, as I fear that someone would accidentally mess up my saves etc. I'm sure a self entitled child will throw complete fits over it.
Instant Fail (Score:2, Insightful)
Please see subject, because you know it's true. As soon as people realize they can't trade-in games, everything is tied to one PSN account, and games still cost $60+ this game console will fly ... right back to Japan.
Same thing with XBOX - if it comes locked down and games tied to a single account and no used game sales then it will be a very expensive paperweight. A dead albatross weighting them down.
Time for a new game company to step up and create something open or ,rather, more open than the "next gen" consoles appear to be.
Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (Score:4, Insightful)
It won't be. It'll be $20 for SONY ... plus another $20 for the person who originally paid $50 ... that's dangerously close the price of a new copy.
And the original buyer *will* want $20. If he's only getting $5 or $10 for his used games then he'll probably hang onto them instead of selling them to you.
Re:Kill the used game market, help developers (Score:4, Insightful)
If publishers can count on more direct sales
That $10 I don't get anymore for turning in the old games no longer goes towards buying new ones.
Re:"Reliable source?" (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed. EVERYTHING in this article is very subject to change. No point in getting upset this early.
Re:no used games, no sale (Score:5, Insightful)
$60 games with no resale means i buy one or two awesome games per year
Seems that that many manufacturers and game studios fail to grasp this concept. Many buyers of new titles only pay top dollar for the game because of the resale value. I'm sure that no secondary market will hurt the sales of new games, the game studios will of course claim the decline in numbers is due to piracy.
Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why, because there's a rumor that the next generation of consoles might have the same restriction that's been standard on PCs for a decade? Seriously, when was the last time you legally bought or sold a used PC game? And now Steam and Origin have closed up the vast majority of those fringe cases, and even the all mighty, for the gamers, indie gem Minecraft is unsellable and untradeable.
Yep! It's so! ---Sony! (Score:1, Insightful)
You expect this kind of craven, heavy-handed behavior out of a Samsung or a Panasonic, sure. But Sony?!?!?
Why wouldn't you expect this of Sony? Recall that:
Don't know how many times you have to see SONY acting in this manner to realize that's the way SONY really is.
Re:Revolt! (Score:4, Insightful)
However, the more likely scenario is just a repeat of what happened with PC games.
You can't really buy PC Games used anymore, so a large portion of the pc game traffic moved on and got consoles instead. When consoles suffer from the same thing, people are going to move on to mobile games on platforms like the iPad, Android, and soon windows 8 tablets.
Sure, you can't resell mobile apps, but it's a rarity when a mobile game costs more than $10. At that price, you can afford to buy 6 games for the same price as 1 console game. Who cares if you can't sell them back. And, for that matter, most mobile games are less than $5, and the majority are stuck squarely at $0.99.
Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (Score:5, Insightful)
1. It's EASY. My games stay updated, without intervention (in contrast to Sony's Playstation Plus - which charges me a fee to NOT sit through updates every time it turn the damn thing on.)
2. It drives prices of PC games DOWN. There's healthy competition here. The console makers seem to be colluding to get $60 per player, no matter what. Hell, both MS and Sony charge money for *demos*, when you think about it
Steam ADDS value, so a purchase feels like a fair exchange, and not a shaft. Others tend to feel like a cash grab coupled with even MORE drm. (That includes Origin!)
Are you sure YOU understand the audience? (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at all this from Sony's perspective - what has been one of the wilder gaming successes in recent years?
The iOS platform.
There people cannot trade or otherwise share games. But it ends up not really mattering because in the iOS world there are so many developers vying for purchasers that the real world has actually had an impact on pricing - pricing is quite low per title.
Or you could even come at it from the PC side and note the only model that is really growing there very well is Steam - again no sharing of games, but lower prices.
So I would submit it's you who are out of touch with what modern gamers accept.
Of course it remains to be seen if Sony REALLY understands that for the no-sharing model to work, prices must also come down substantially for each title. They are adopting the DRM protected no-sharing model because it's innately what they desire anyway, but can they unclench the greed fist just a little? Hard to say. All I know is I have a PS3 but am pretty unlikely to get an Orbis, even if it supports Vorbis...
Re:no used games, no sale (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a fair point, and it's going to be a bigger problem for Sony than you might think.
To give you an idea of what games will eventually be worth on their platform, you need only look at iOS games (iPhone, iPad, etc.), which by their nature cannot be resold or transferred (short of transferring an entire iTunes account, that is). According to c|net [cnet.com], the average price of a game on iOS is on a steady decline, and as of a year ago, was only $1.44. Some websites are claiming that the current numbers are as low as $1.02. The most expensive game I've seen was still under $20. Admittedly, it may take longer for a more tightly controlled market like console games to collapse to that point (because the console manufacturer won't let just anybody develop games for their platform), but $5-and-under games are the direction things are trending, and if Sony isn't run by absolute idiots, they'll think twice before they take an action that is guaranteed to hasten that price collapse.
Of course, there's a flip side to that. If the game prices do collapse, more people will buy them. So things might balance out for Sony if the decision doesn't drive people to other platforms... which brings me to the other fatal flaw in their plan. If you have to carry your entire console to somebody else's house to play games because your friends' devices can't play your games, that eliminates the only other advantage that consoles have over an iPad. If they do this, Sony can pretty much kiss their console sales goodbye. Not that there's necessarily any good reason for them to care as far as their game titles are concerned—they probably don't make much money on their consoles anyway—but it takes away control, and Sony's biggest flaw has always been their irrational desire for complete control.
On the one hand, it sucks that Sony is considering this. On the other hand, if I had to pick which console maker I'd rather see go down in flames as an example to other console makers, Sony would be at the top of the list by a sizable margin, so I'm not going to shed a single tear. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of corporate dirtbags.
Re:Revolt! (Score:5, Insightful)
Their first PS3 allowed the user to play PS2 games. Subsequent PS3s dropped that feature.
The PS3 had an "other OS" option... Then they took it away.
It would be a PR nightmare to release the PS4 with a catchphrase like "now only new games can be played", so they will allow the used games to be played initially, then, once they have sold enough consoles to get some serious market share, they will make an update that screws us all.
Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (Score:5, Insightful)
Even with steam you can send games to friends. This all smacks of trying to profit off piracy, has nothing to do with used game sales. Used games, in this day and age, mean profit in DLC. If you never paid for the game, you're less likely to pay for DLC (free to play titles not withstanding).
It really does seem like console makers are trying to squeeze the market without thinking of the consequences. I own both PS3 & Xbox 360, but if this crap comes in, I won't be buying the new systems.
Re:Used games and developers (Score:4, Insightful)
This is just another example of software companies trying to cherry-pick the distinction between "owned" and "licensed." Your CD is scratched and won't read anymore? Sorry, you own the product and you'll need to buy another one as a replacement. Oh, you want to sell the product to someone else? Nope, you didn't really buy it, you purchased a license which isn't transferrable. Unadulterated cash-grab, it is.