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Taxes Lead Angry Birds Maker Rovio To Consider Move To Ireland 626

Posted by timothy
from the actually-it's-the-delicious-green-weather dept.
jones_supa writes with this news, straight from The Irish Times: "Rovio, the Finnish company behind Angry Birds, is considering moving its headquarters to Ireland, chief executive Mikael Hed has said. Rovio employs approximately 400 people, mostly in Finland, but Rovio is in contact with IDA Ireland about establishing headquarters here. The reason for the move would be corporation tax rate, which in Finland is 24.5%, while Ireland's rate is 12.5%. Companies such as Google and Facebook have also set up European headquarter operations in Dublin for the same reason. Hed said that if the decision was made to move to Ireland, the company would then decide exactly what elements of its operations would move. 'If we did make that decision then it would be a natural thing to do to have some production [in Ireland] also.'"
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Taxes Lead Angry Birds Maker Rovio To Consider Move To Ireland

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  • by QQBoss (2527196) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @12:18PM (#40275157)

    I wonder if they will approach the level of condemnation that Saverin received for giving up his USA citizenship first before the IPO?

  • 12.5% Corporate tax? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dodgy G33za (1669772) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @12:37PM (#40275315)

    And people wonder why Ireland has become the basket case of Europe.

    The EU is very fond of harmonising the pain to its citizens. It should have a minimum corporate tax rate to ensure that companies pay their dues...

  • by SilenceBE (1439827) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @12:47PM (#40275411)
    The funny thing is that the low tax rates for some is the reason why Ireland had a deficit crisis [irishexaminer.com].

    And ironically it is then those countries that they are trying to undercut that needs to bail them out.

    The problem with a lot of corporations is that they are narrow minded. They want to have a healthy and educated workforce. Companies like Rovio have benefit by being situated in a country where (I presume is like the average European country) where good education and healthcare is quite accessible. And the fact that is very accessible and like in this country is not because those things are heavily privatized.
  • by xelah (176252) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:04PM (#40275539)
    Why tax corporate profits in the first place? Their taxed when they become someone's income. Wouldn't it be fairer, cost less in administration and drastically reduce the number of tax games people waste resources on playing, if corporate taxes and labour taxes were abolished, and if the tax on all kinds of income and capital gains was equalized at a level which raises the same revenue? There's been a big public argument here (the UK) over the reduction of the top rate of income tax from 50% to 45%....but most people seem to remain unaware that salary is one of the most highly taxed forms of income, and that those who can manipulate how they receive their income or can receive it through dividends, royalties or capital gains can do much more than that to reduce their tax burden.
  • Re:Don't quite agree (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bill Dimm (463823) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:05PM (#40275555) Homepage

    The PROBLEM is, states need to get a clue about such deals, ensuring it's beneficial for both parties.

    No, that's not the real problem, either. The problem is that they are, as you put it, deals. Instead of having a set of tax rules that are applied uniformly to everyone, some companies get special deals. Since those deals are done at the discretion of some politician or appointee, the politician is given more power to toss tax breaks and unfair advantage to his/her friends or people that will contribute the most money/votes to his/her re-election. The deal is beneficial for both parties -- the politician and the company. Like much of modern politics, it is all about amassing power to take money from one group of people and give it to another, rather than benefiting society overall. How many times have you heard that small companies are the real job creators? How many times have you heard of these deals going to small companies?

  • Re:Don't quite agree (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AngryDeuce (2205124) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:15PM (#40275651)

    The entire process is rife with opportunity to rip off taxpayers. Here in Madison, WI, a locally based company, Spectrum Brands, hired a Florida firm to make overtures to the state government for tax breaks in consideration for "moving their business to Madison" [madison.com]. Yes, a company that was already located here had a firm from another state negotiate for a 7-figure forgivable loan to move where they were already located.

    Then, when the Madison public got wind of it, they moved to Middleton, anyway [madison.com]. With their loan, of course.

    Gotta love corporate extortion and the transfer of public funds to private corporations. Oh yeah, plus the CEO of Spectrum Brands received a compensation package last year worth 13.7 million dollars [madison.com]. He couldn't take a little bit of a pay cut rather than bilking the government out of 4 million bucks? Heavens, no! That's just punishing success, right?!

    And these are the "job creators" we're supposed to bend over for and throw money at for the privilege of working for them (which obviously generates them more revenue then it costs otherwise the job wouldn't exist in the first place)? America! Fuck Yeah!!

  • by lightknight (213164) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @01:43PM (#40275907) Homepage

    "It seems people become libertarian AFTER they become rich, as they have the mistaken belief that they somehow made their wealth themselves." -> I am far from wealthy, and yet am libertarian. I spent years perusing the various ideologies offered by, well, everyone; with each of them, I perform a test to see if what they were selling was true. Granted, it is a painstaking endeavor, as you have to actually read the treatises and materials from these ideologies, which for the lesser of minds can be quite frightening and true objectivity is something difficult to measure. However, it is well worth it all, as you acquire first-hand knowledge of where the faults of each ideology actually lies, as well as an encyclopedic amount of information on disinformation. The amount of lies out there that each ideology promotes about the others is greater than the stars in the sky. I am thoroughly convinced that the problem with humanity isn't humanity itself, but the languages used; they are...heavily context-based, and invite a certain amount of imprecision inadequate to storing knowledge / wisdom past a certain level.

    How did you come to choose your ideology (if you have one)? Have you performed experiments to see if what you believe is actually true, or do you simply accept it as self-evident? Are you willing to throw the entire ideology out if it's proven false, or would you attempt to modify your beliefs / explain away the erroneous data? At what point do you say "Enough"? Do you believe it's important to have an ideology even if it's a broken / imperfect one? Are you okay with one that works in 90% of all cases, or do you slave away in your mental workshop until it covers 100% of all cases?

  • Canada has 15% corporate tax rate (http://www.canadabusinesstax.com/corporate-income-tax-rates/), 52 week combined maternity/parental leave, free health care, and federal pension plan.

    There is no reason the US cannot provide the same level of benefits except for political bickering and the close to 2 billion *per day* the US spends on its military.

    Canada can afford to do all this with a piss-poor military. With a population of just over 30 million, Canada's military is so small that it's barely adequate to protect one quarter of their territory. The truth is, part of that 2 billion a day you lament the US military is spending goes in part towards providing military security to countries like Canada that don't spend enough on their own defense.

  • by jellomizer (103300) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @03:09PM (#40276673)

    No consumers will not see savings. Trickle down was never about consumer prices. However that money will be reinvested into the company to allow the company to grow, and hire more people.

    Trickle Downs failure like a lot of political mumbo jumbo is because it is too simplistic model for an advanced system.

    Trickle Down is part of a well balanced economy. Too much of it will just hurt because the company will make too much profit and will have less incentive to grow. Thus pocketing the money.
    Too Little, then the company is forced to pay taxes for services that they don't need and have the government holding them back, because they need to give the poor there "fare share" even though they are not going out on the line risking their money, and working really hard to get where they were.

    Like real life you need balance. The more complicated the system the more factors you need to balance and often it is more then left right you need to balance but up down and forward and backwards too...

  • by icebike (68054) * on Sunday June 10, 2012 @04:02PM (#40277149)

    Patents are not issued to help inventors make money or profit from their invention. They're issued to further progress in the useful arts and sciences.

    That's nonsense, pretty much quoted from the Constitution, but which even the founding fathers didn't really believe. No other country had such language in their law. Great Britain's patent and copyright laws were strictly revenue oriented from the start (well over 300 years ago).

    Most of the greatest works of art, literature, music, and inventions never enjoyed patent or copyright protection until about 200 years ago (far less in most countries), and it was ALWAYS assumed that anything you invented would be also made by others in short order. Yet there is scarce evidence of any withholding of works or inventions from this time.

    In fact it is precisely BECAUSE OF PATENTS that inventions and creative works are withheld, kept secret, and locked up.

    Patents have ALWAYS been about the money. Its fiction to believe they promote the science or arts, and it has always been fiction.

  • by Skal Tura (595728) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @05:38PM (#40277813) Homepage

    I'm a Finnish small business owner, and i can say that the tax caveats at Finland don't stop to the corporation tax rate.
    There's also VAT which is 23% which limits direct consumer customers heavily on the European market, nevermind all the taxes when you employ someone which are quite heavy, mostly in form of hidden taxes etc.

  • by bfree (113420) on Sunday June 10, 2012 @06:57PM (#40278205)
    As others have mentioned, the 12.5% isn't even the best rate around. Moving to Ireland is more generally about the Double Irish [wikipedia.org] whereby you form two companies in Ireland, one based in a true tax haven like the Caymans. Ireland then lets the company in the tax haven not pay Irish taxes, so it sells "IP" to the other company at whatever price they want (no transfer pricing rules), so while one company banks all the revenue, it pays just about everything over to the shell "IP" company where it is basically all untaxed profit. In practice this means the company chooses it's real tax rate in Ireland by deciding how much of it's revenues it doesn't ship out to the tax haven.

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