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The Rebirth of PC Gaming? Bring On the Modders! 249

Posted by Soulskill
from the model-of-a-modder-major-general dept.
Deathspawner writes "The future of PC gaming is oft-debated, but one thing's for certain: modding has always made it better. With that, wouldn't it make sense for developers to focus more on giving the community the modding tools it needs? Further, couldn't publishers look to modding as a way to increase revenue, by allowing modders to sell their sanctioned creations? Valve already offers robust community options in its Steam platform — and already has payment processing in place. Is this the natural next step for PC gaming?"
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The Rebirth of PC Gaming? Bring On the Modders!

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:02PM (#41086579)

    How much do I make off mods?
    Nothing

    And where are most of my sales?
    On consoles.

    And where are most of my pirates?
    On the PC.

    Who do modding tools benefit?
    Only the PC gamers.

    Does developing modding tools cost me?
    Yes.

    And remind me again how much I make off any given mod?
    Jack and shit. And Jack left town.

    I think I've made my decision.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:06PM (#41086631)
      That's the difference between a good developer and a crap dev. A good dev will put years into their product, and give a game that people truly love like an artisan spending months to years on a single piece. A crap dev will crap out a product every 6 months, make a truly forgettable game (it has to be otherwise people won't buy the next one in 6 months time!) like cheap imported furniture that is going to fall apart in a year anyway.
      • by PopeRatzo (965947) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @06:20PM (#41088327) Homepage Journal

        A crap dev will crap out a product every 6 months, make a truly forgettable game (it has to be otherwise people won't buy the next one in 6 months time!) like cheap imported furniture that is going to fall apart in a year anyway.

        I think this is one reason for piracy.

        I enthusiastically purchase well-made games that are enjoyable. I can think of one game that I've logged hundreds of hours on and that I've purchased four times (once on PC, once for console and two for gifts to friends). If the company announced they were making a sequel, I wouldn't hesitate to pay 0-day price and pre-order.

        There are other games, that for various reasons, feel like nothing but money-grabs by developers who are out of ideas. Unfinished, unloved and leaving me pissed off.

        I recently played a game called "Gas Guzzlers Combat Carnage" by some indie studio (I think in Eastern Europe) called Gamepire that was a hoot to play, worked very well and cost less than $20. I even wrote the devs a fan letter telling them I hoped they'd go bigger and do a "Burnout Paradise"-style game with lots of wild arcade racing and crashes and explosions and stunts and stuff, because they did Gas Guzzlers with such elan and a sense of fun. It's basically Forza with guns. Good single player, good multi-player. Good all around.

        But when a company has done such a bad job over and over, and ripped people off by not giving them value, I don't see how it's a surprise that people are pirating their games instead of laying out $60.

        I know for a fact that there are people who have pirated a game and then liked it so much that they went and bought a copy. I actually think this is pretty common.

        I'm not convinced that a big shakeout in the PC gaming industry is a bad thing. There are a lot of big-name game companies that are putting out crap and ripping people off and deserve to go out of business.

    • by Kreigaffe (765218) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:10PM (#41086689)

      DayZ is responsible for more sales of Arma2 than Arma2.

      • by vlm (69642)

        DayZ is responsible for more sales of Arma2 than Arma2.

        You could say Arma2 is a pre-release beta of DayZ.

        This is a point in the argument that is being missed. What if, say, super mario galaxy had a great engine but all the levels sucked.... then nintendo released mod tools and one of the hottest games out there was "super mario zombie galaxy" or something.... So they saved all their money on "art devel" all their money on "testing" and all their money on "PR" (I don't see ads... is Arma2 primarily advertising itself as a bootloader/engine for DayZ?)

        I don't und

        • by citizenr (871508)

          DayZ is responsible for more sales of Arma2 than Arma2.

          You could say Arma2 is a pre-release beta of DayZ.

          Except Arma2 PC game sales are a side business to Bohemia main one - supporting military training facilities.

        • Arma's niche is that of the hyper-realistic military simulation FPS. We're talking things like super-accurate bullet physics where hypersonic rounds with realistic dropoff hit you from long range before you hear the gunshot. It doesn't have the mass market appeal that something like Call of Duty has, which might explain the lack of intense marketing. DayZ happened entirely after the fact.
    • by Shikaku (1129753) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:11PM (#41086701)

      So why is TF2 the most valuable game to Valve, when it allows modding, and also puts them on sale?

      • Because Valve already long ago recouped their money.

        • by dj245 (732906)

          Because Valve already long ago recouped their money.

          Valve makes more money on hats than they made selling the game.

      • by morari (1080535) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:25PM (#41086919) Journal

        The Team Fortress franchise in itself started as a mod for Quake.
        Counter-Strike started out as a mod.

      • So why is TF2 the most valuable game to Valve, when it allows modding, and also puts them on sale?

        I've heard this argument before, but never bothered to look for any mods, just going by my gut feeling that if I hadn't heard of any, they aren't out there.
        So I looked, and unless someone can cough up better examples, the TF2 mod scene is fucking garbage, please excuse my language.

        To put this in context, the original Team Fortress was a Quake mod. Team Fortress _itself_ had several well known and popular mods. There were even sizable custom map scenes within these mod scenes.

        Mods very substantially change

    • by tepples (727027) <<tepples> <at> <gmail.com>> on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:15PM (#41086753) Homepage Journal

      How much do I make off mods?
      Nothing

      I disagree. Would Valve have made as much money from Half-Life if there were no Counter-Strike?

      And where are most of my sales?
      On consoles.

      If you're a sufficiently large developer. Do XNA games released on Xbox Live Indie Games outsell comparable PC games?

      Does developing modding tools cost me?
      Yes.

      Developing level and scenario editing tools in the first place costs you. Why not continue to polish them and release them a few months later so that you can make a few bucks off players who will buy a game for the mods?

    • by Colonel Korn (1258968) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:15PM (#41086757)

      How much do I make off mods?
      Nothing

      Many games make most of their PC sales because of mods. ARMA2 is a good example given by another poster, but each and every Bethesda game is an even bigger one.

    • by MobyDisk (75490) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:22PM (#41086879) Homepage

      How about making the modding tools run on consoles? Today, consoles have:
      - Hard Drives
      - Internet connectivity
      - Keyboard and mouse support
      - Good resolution displays
      - Powerful enough CPUs for editing tools
      - Sufficient memory for editing tools

      10 years ago this would not be possible. But today it is entirely feasible. There is a marginal cost to having to Q&A the tools, but it might be worth while because you can then sell the tools as DLC. Or release it later on for free to revitalize sales of the existing game.

      • Keyboard and mouse support

        The last time I checked, Microsoft still refused to make a mouse driver for Xbox 360. Or are you calling Kinect a mouse substitute?

        Sufficient memory for editing tools

        How so? Wii has 64 MB of RAM and 24 MB of VRAM.

      • by oakgrove (845019)
        The people that developed the game in the first place did it on a PC so the "mod tools" already exist. It's just a matter of making whatever changes they want and releasing.
      • by tlhIngan (30335)

        How about making the modding tools run on consoles? Today, consoles have:
        - Hard Drives
        - Internet connectivity
        - Keyboard and mouse support
        - Good resolution displays
        - Powerful enough CPUs for editing tools
        - Sufficient memory for editing tools

        10 years ago this would not be possible. But today it is entirely feasible. There is a marginal cost to having to Q&A the tools, but it might be worth while because you can then sell the tools as DLC. Or release it later on for free to revitalize sales of the existing

      • by hairyfeet (841228)

        Because the control freaks that own the systems like Nintendo, Sony, Apple, MSFT, etc are about as likely to allow that as they are to make their systems FOSS?

        But if the rumors are true then next year we may all get a choice thanks to GabeN and the Steambox, which if it follows Valve's philosophy on PC will be open to mods and since it'll be a COTS system you'll be able to make mods on the PC and sell them or give them away on both PC and Steambox. But until then it'll be a cold day in hell before one of

      • the HD and internet are there to sell you dlc and patch buggy, rushed-to-market games; the rest is just happenstance
    • by Hatta (162192)

      Who do modding tools benefit?
      Only the PC gamers.

      Presumably, your game designers would benefit from good modding tools as well.

      Does developing modding tools cost me?
      Yes.

      If you've provided your game designers with good tools to design their game, this cost is already sunk.

      • by geminidomino (614729) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @05:22PM (#41087641) Journal

        This exactly what Runic Games (Torchlight/Torchlight II) did, and it got them a lot of good will and a lively and loyal, if small, community around them.

        Supposedly, Bethesda claimed to have done the same thing. Having tried to use the Skyrim mod tool, though, I can't imagine that the devs used it day after day and haven't strung someone up by their toenails in the breakroom yet...

    • Human resources (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tepples (727027) <<tepples> <at> <gmail.com>> on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:31PM (#41086993) Homepage Journal

      I just realized that you appear to have forgotten a question:

      Where do I find artists and programmers to hire for my next game?
      From the modding community.

    • by oakgrove (845019) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:45PM (#41087147)

      How much do I make off mods?

      Nothing

      Yeah because Valve hasn't made a dime off of Counter-Strike [steampowered.com], right? I mean they've only shifted 27 million units [wikipedia.org] in the franchise since buying the rights to the mod. I'm sure they really regret opening that can of worms now.

    • by wierd_w (1375923)

      So, as a consumer:

      Why don't you enable community mods with an approval process for console offerings?

      Provide a mod toolset for PC use, with a submission system. Use your paid DLC packages as dependencies for core functionality, so that the community ones drive sales of the paid ones.

      That solves several of your problems.

      Oh, righ, the console operators don't like community dlc. That's right. Sorry. My bad.

    • by Tukz (664339)

      I ask the Developer:

      Is your game moddable?
      No

      Do you think I'll buy it then?
      Oh yes, because it...

      I'm already walking away.

    • by cwrinn (1282510)
      Why, then, is it that near every game comes out with an extensive modding platform if it is worth nothing to them? Your logic might make sense if you exclude the mountain of evidence that nullifies your whole point.
    • I'd agree that's what they are thinking. But I think they are wrong. A good example is Neverwinter nights. I bought that game 5 years after release so I could play some of the mods people had made for it. That's money they wouldn't have had. Look at Team Fortress 2... that wouldn't even really be a game without all the player made maps. It would have faded into obscurity a few months after release. The mod community let Valve spend less time making maps and focus more on game play. It SAVED them money.

      Desig
      • by dj245 (732906) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @06:36PM (#41088525) Homepage

        I'd agree that's what they are thinking. But I think they are wrong. A good example is Neverwinter nights. I bought that game 5 years after release so I could play some of the mods people had made for it. That's money they wouldn't have had. Look at Team Fortress 2... that wouldn't even really be a game without all the player made maps. It would have faded into obscurity a few months after release. The mod community let Valve spend less time making maps and focus more on game play.

        I'm not sure I totally agree with that. The maps made by valve are excellent, and you can tell that they spent a lot of time thinking about player routes and wall placement. I have over 800 hours in TF2 and I only play Badwater, Gold rush, and Turbine.

        Not to say that there aren't great player-made maps too. Turbine is an excellent map, and I believe it is player-made entirely or in part. I think this map is so good because it emulates a lot of the features that Valve uses in their maps- 3 routes to every flag, enough space and obstructions that 1 sentry doesn't dominate, a way to destroy every sentry given enough skill and thought, etc. One of the reasons I think TF2 is special is because the textures are so simple and cartoonish. You don't need to spend hours and hours painting textures or figuring out stylizing. Everything fits together well aesthetically already. You can concentrate on the things that matter like player pathing and other geographic placement.

        But your point that without player-made maps the game would have failed, I can't buy it.

      • by Fancia (710007)
        Definitely had the same experience. I just bought Morrowind, which is 10 years old now, partly on the strength of the huge numbers of amazing mods available.
    • by VortexCortex (1117377) <VortexCortex@Nos ... t-retrograde.com> on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @07:09PM (#41088875)

      How much do I make off mods?

      It's hard to say, but it's substantial: Mods are free advertizing. Advertizing costs money. Ergo, Mods are worth free advertizing to me. The Doom & Quake Modding communities are still around, and people are still buying the original games -- Even though the engine is open sourced! Why? To make & play mods. The source-ports and many game mods require the original assets. Total conversions like Freedoom are not compatible with all the mods, so the huge library of mods drive original game sales. The point is that it's far from "Nothing"

      Seriously, "nothing" is a very deceptive and/or ignorant answer.

      And where are most of my sales?

      PC and Mobile, because Consoles have an artificially elevated barrier to entry, and the console market has severe discoverability issues -- Though this really doesn't matter much when it comes to mods, you'll see why two answers below.

      And where are most of my pirates?

      Piracy isn't a problem, It's more free advertising. "Pirates" are more likely to pay for, and get the word out about, my next game. One example: I bought myself and my nephew several games that he found out about while playing at his friend's house -- his friend pirated the games because he's a teen with no cash. That pirate made up for his piracy 200%

      You can't stop piracy -- It's a symptom of an artificial scarcity system -- A BAD economic model. Piracy is only possible because we don't get paid enough up front for making the game & try to recoup costs after the fact. I'm working to change this, but it takes a strong reputation to bootstrap into the new model where I can give games away after they've been built (hey, it's just like working for a Publisher, I only want to get paid for actually doing the work -- works for mechanics and all other labour industries).

      Who do modding tools benefit?

      Primarily: The Game Developers. Yep, without them I wouldn't be able to make games. In fact, before I can even make a game, I must make "modding tools" to create everything from font rendering & GUIs, to level editors and multi-texture combining visualisers. Some dev studios require much simpler tools, others license engines that come with said tools -- Let me repeat that: THE ENGINE COMES WITH MODDING TOOLS. Considering that we've got to make the modding tools anyway, and that the tools themselves aren't really useful without an engine to go with it, the modding tools are only worth NOT distributing if you plan to increase the artificial scarcity of DLC. Which is dumb. People will just make their own (inf | sup)erior mod tools. Inferior tools produce mods that make your game look like crap to others on Youtube; Superior tools help folks create content that drives sales of the game and showcases what others can do -- Ding Ding Ding! More Engine Licensing Deals!

      Does developing modding tools cost me?

      Yes, but that's part of the cost of making the damn game! You think we dump 3D graphics and textures in a folder with the engine and it magically becomes a game?! Nope. True, some modding tools are created as plugins for 3DS Max or Maya or Blender, etc, but the point is: We've got to make them anyway. Furthermore, it may cost NOTHING! That's right! NOTHING. Sometimes folks actually reuse software...

      And remind me again how much I make off any given mod?

      For the high quality official in-house made mods? Well, DLC goes for anywhere between 1% and 10% of the original game sale price, or 50-100% of the original game sales for expansion packs. The sales figures vary wildly depending on how well the game has done. For community made mods, the answer's even more complex (see above), but it's provably infinitely more than "jack shit".

    • All I have to say is you're an idiot. God help you if you ever actually run a game company...
    • by Bruinwar (1034968)

      And where are most of my pirates?
      Hmmm purely anecdotal here.... I am a PC gamer, not a single pirated game on my machine (currently). However, I go over to my daughter’s home, my grandson is playing his Wii that is completely loaded with hundreds of games, none of which were purchased. My nephew’s PS2, uses many pirated titles. I've heard the same about Xbox but never seen it. It could be that piracy with consoles is more common that the OP thinks.

    • by Fancia (710007)

      How much do I make off mods?
      Nothing

      Have you been paying attention to Day Z? It's a mod for Arma II, a 2-year-old game - which became so popular, it's pushed Arma II to the top of the Steam best-seller list for months on end. Mods make money by expanding the sales curve, or even bringing an old game back to the best-seller lists years later.

    • hl1 would have been forgotten if it weren't for counter strike. because of cs they had the incentive to keep updating and to add licensing servers, online drm and eventually an online distribution platform for selling the thing(steam).

  • Rebirth (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:05PM (#41086621)

    What do you mean rebirth?
    PC gaming is in full swing..

  • I think it is better in the context of hardcore players who wants that flexibility, which constitute small group of the players. Is it "better" for the gaming company? Is it "better" for most other players who don't mod? I'm not sure.
  • by cpu6502 (1960974) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:19PM (#41086827)

    At least that's what the /. articles were saying back then. Maybe it's just FUD like the movie-makers in the 1950s who said TV would kill theaters.

    • by oakgrove (845019)
      Well, don't look now but PC gaming is an 11 billion dollar a year industry. Consoles? Eight [techi.com]. And that's all consoles combined against the single PC platform. The concept of PC gaming "dying" is little more than a well-worn meme to generate flame wars these days.

      Of course no one knows the exact numbers but it's pretty obvious by practically every industry report I've seen that PC gaming isn't only alive and well but it's growing very fast.

    • by Blakey Rat (99501)

      It was. Well, it sure as hell looked like it was when Xbox 360 and PS3 first came out. Now it doesn't look as much like that.

      Hey 20 years ago, Apple was useless and dying right? Space: 1999 was pessimistic predicting there'd be a Moonbase Alpha is as long as 20 years instead of like 5 years. Oops.

      Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes when it's clearly obvious X is going to happen, hey! Guess what! X doesn't happen.

      Cope.

  • by leathered (780018) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:19PM (#41086839)

    Making mods or custom maps is only viable when you can run your own servers on which to play them. Nowadays most new games have servers that are run by the game publishers themselves, if this is the case how do you persuade the publisher to run the mod on them?

    • if this is the case how do you persuade the publisher to run the mod on them?

      The same way I persuaded Go Daddy to run MediaWiki on pineight.com: pay to rent space on a server to hold the scripts associated with the mod.

    • by Blakey Rat (99501)

      What server am I playing my Skyrim mods on?

      You have a very, very limited view of what constitutes a "mod".

  • Endless Space (go look it up) is a new 4X game with much more in common with MOO2; though it is still amazing how much a sixteen year old game got right than anything since; but with snappy graphics and a lot of polish. They invite people to vote on upcoming changes and features as well. The game is delivered via Steam and is one of the most bug free games I have seen recently, it certainly is the best true 4X Space game I have played in ages (read: no real time silliness)

    There is a small community already

  • by onyxruby (118189) <onyxruby AT comcast DOT net> on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:21PM (#41086855)

    Looking back over 25 years of computer gaming modding has pretty much always improved sales. From the days of the original Civ games to Wolfenstein to Doom to NeverWinter Nights vs NeverWinter Nights 2 examples abound. Those games that support the community readily modding them have pretty much always had better sales than those that didn't.

    Simple example would be NeverWinter Nights vs NeverWinter Nights 2 for an example in point. Embrace your user community and you will be rewarded in sales for years to come. Pull a Sony and you'l end up with a (what was the name of their PSP replacement again?)....

  • I'm sure some company could make a good income from mods.

    For example, take a game like NWN1 or NWN2 which allows not just for single player modules, but persistant worlds. Develop the backend so that the game company can provide a server backbone and the PW designers upload their areas and global scripts, and/or allow connections to private servers. The key is giving not just the ability to add customizable scripts (such as having an object be able to cross PWs with its own scripts attached like Enserric)

  • by Milharis (2523940) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:36PM (#41087063)

    I'm a Rome Total War modder, so my knowledge of modding is mainly restricted to the Total War franchise, and how The Creative Assembly deals with modding.
    But I think that it's probably the same thing everywhere.

    When people think of mod tools, they often think of an editor which allows to modify textures/models and scripts, for the most part. While that's great because it allows beginner to easily mod a few things, that's only minor modding.
    The problem is that while it's fun to change the texture of a horse to a bunny with a hat, it's not those kind of mods that TFA is talking about.
    It's the total overhaul mods that make modding so good, like Counter Strike. And with the amount and diversity of modifications needed, no tools is going to be able to do it.

    In RTW, most files are text files, which means that basically everything that is not hardcoded in the exe can be changed using Notepad. The only place where a tool is needed is for art ressource, as those are packed. And for RTW, it wasn't CA that released this tool, but a guy who reversed-engineering the packing system. In the subsequent release Medieval II Total War, CA actually released a tool to unpack things, because they had added protections.

    The newer TW games however don't have the same major mods, because they changed the way data is structured. Things which used to be rather easy to do are now (almost) impossible, simply because no one can access the data in a useful manner. Because of the thriving modding community created by the previous games, there are a few people that are painfully trying to make sense of things, but HEX editing is a huge pain, and has huge limitations.

    All of that to say that modders don't really need tools like editor (though they are quite nice).
    What they need is a way to access and modify data easily (which can be through a tool like an unpacker, or a converter), and documentation/information to make sense of it.

    • by neminem (561346)

      While I was never more than a fiddler, and this was also obviously like a decade ago (can't believe it's really been that long!), all my experience with real modding was in the original Starcraft.

      The original Starcraft did actually have a pretty respectable map editor, complete with a scripting engine that, while not the most user-friendly ever, was technically still Turing-complete. But there was still a lot you couldn't do (natively). Well, by the end, there was almost -nothing- you couldn't do. Anyone el

    • All of that to say that modders don't really need tools like editor (though they are quite nice).
      What they need is a way to access and modify data easily (which can be through a tool like an unpacker, or a converter), and documentation/information to make sense of it.

      I agree to a point: ID didn't publicly released their Doom modding toolkit, but The Unofficial Doom Specs spawned many mod tools. However, the data structures in the WAD file were mostly the same that were used in memory, so a hex editor and a debugger could easily work wonders.

      That said, I would classify your pack/repack tools as editing tools. Furthermore, I'd go so far as to say that although you may not need a full editing suite, it would sure get you jumpstarted making them mods, eh?

      Developers ar

  • by wierd_w (1375923) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:39PM (#41087095)

    I would think that this could greatly improve the value of console gaming as well.

    Think about it: as a publisher, you get paid twice. (Once for the PC version and its deveopment tool suite, and again for the console version for testing.) The number of interesting DLC packages would be enorous. Many may even be free. It will greatly increase the desirability of your games.

    "But won't it compete with our paid DLC?!"

    Not if the community DLC requires it as a dependency for core functionality. Then the community DLC will actually add additional value to your paid DLC, and people will want it more.

    So, why aren't you guys doing it?

    • So, why aren't you [console gaming] guys doing it?

      Because the console makers charge us a lot to make DLC available. Truth is, your favorite console mfg is keeping you from having awesome stuff. Sorry, I didn't mean to-- I hope you weren't a console fanboi...

      Meanwhile on the PC: I'm working a P2P DHT system for modders to distribute their content for my games. The trust store and free CA system is complete, we can push out updates Bittorrent style and the client can verify authenticity. Modders can generate self signed mods, and optionally get their ce

      • by wierd_w (1375923)

        I kinda figured as much actually. That's the real downside to the walled garden: it's invite only at the party.

        This sort of thing really is why I wish there were alternative markets and game match services for consoles. But, that will never happen as long as the status quo remains in effect.

        Too bad there isn't a way to end-run the DLC problem without raising the console maker's ire. Something like incorporating a minimalist BT client inside a game update, and using a console-signed local storage container

  • by fuzzel (18438) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @04:45PM (#41087149) Homepage

    It's good that Planetary Annihlation [planetarya...lation.com] will have support for modding and Linux :)
    So give them your voice and some of your cash by funding them on Kickstarter and then next year we'll all happily be destroying planets!

  • There is just no way getting around it. The goal is to consolidate and forced conformity.

    Modders will exist as long as these companies decide its worth selling parts to you directly. The entire computer industry is looking at Apple and thinking to themselves "lets copy them"

    Apple is not friendly to modders.

    The future is windows store, apple store... you will conform because there will be no choice.

  • no to f2p (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo (965947) on Wednesday August 22, 2012 @06:25PM (#41088391) Homepage Journal

    I'll tell you what's NOT the future of PC gaming: "Free to Play".

    I've never seen so much crap. It's a bad idea, executed badly, and if a game developer thinks that free-to-play is the way to go they need to look for a job in a call center somewhere.

    I went into it with an open mind, but after a year of not being able to play any F2P game more than about 5 minutes, I'm convinced that it's an idea that needs to die a painful public death.

    It's not that it's a good idea being done badly. It's a bad idea that actually encourages bad execution.

    • by Pubstar (2525396)
      So... LoL, DotA, and TF2 are horrible games? But lets dive into the more obscure games, shall we?

      I can't tell you how many hours I dropped into Maple Story or Gunbound. I made a few in game purchases with Gunbound as well way back in the day (HS time). But lets get to something more current - Blacklight: Retribution. This game has way better mechanics play mechanics than most arcade FPS shooters on the market, has some great ideas (Hyper Reality Visor is a complete game changer), AND has a pay system
  • I am amazed no one has listed Minecraft as a testament to modding helping a game grow. It's one of the top selling PC games of all time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games [wikipedia.org] and modding is almost an integral part of the Minecraft community.

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