Valve: Linux Better Than Windows 8 for Gaming 768
dartttt writes "In a presentation at Ubuntu Developer Summit currently going on in Denmark, Drew Bliss from Valve said that Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming. Windows 8 ships with its own app store and it is not an open platform anymore and Linux has everything they need: good OpenGL, pulseaudio, OpenAL and input support."
Fear... (Score:5, Interesting)
What I fear is that Valve will dive deep into Linux, and then suddenly realize that supporting software like steam and games on Linux may be a bit more challenging than they thought it would.
The myriad hardware types out there with myriad sets of less-than-optimal drivers might present myriad problems, even if Valve does master the video-card/opengl end of things. I know I get vastly different experiences with Ubuntu depending on if I install it on one desktop versus another versus my laptop. They all have their own sets of issues, and none of them are remotely perfect.
This whole affair with valve just reminds me of some computer user adopting a new platform with vim and vigor...and then realizing it's not all it's cracked up to be a few weeks or months later. I myself did this with mac, but it took a couple years for me to come to my senses, unfortunately.
There are MANY legitimate reasons why Linux on the desktop has not taken off. I fear that Valve just hasn't encountered the right set of those reasons yet.
Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
My TI82 is better for games than my typewriter.
Re:Fear... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Due to the huge Linux market share? (Score:4, Interesting)
better than Windows 8 for (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem with Windows 8 is that it isn't the best choice for anything anymore. Want to run old Windows apps? Want to run old games? Want to develop new games (as in TFA)? Want to run current Windows apps? Want a tested, stable Windows platform? Want a minimal hardware Windows platform? Whatever your question, there are better alternatives than Windows 8. Microsoft has really dug themselves into a deep hole at the moment...and the implications for the future are breathtaking.
Re:Fear... (Score:4, Interesting)
This may work if the real plan of Valve is to release a Linux based console having Steam. From there supporting Linux is a no brainer.
Hmmm... ValveOS? SteamOS? (Score:5, Interesting)
Roll another Debian-a-like, tailor it to games, market it through Steam to Windows users and say "Why update to Windows 8? Here's a free OS. Live boot it and see if you like it."
Disclaimer: the author is tired of keeping a creaking XP partition going just for Steam, and would bite their hand off to get in on a beta and help out.
Re:Finally (Score:5, Interesting)
The only reason I can see for hating Metro (besides the "walled garden" thing, which is a MAJOR turn-off) is that you're still navigating the start menu folders with your mouse. After about 5 minutes, I thought I'd try hitting the Start key and typing a program name, as you can in Win7; It worked exactly as I expected; List of apps with the same name, then other shortcuts in other areas, then files.
If your biggest issue with Windows 8 is the UI, then at least have a good go at using it. It took me around an hour to get used to it, and I've been a point-and-click Windows user since MSDOS 4. I reserve judgement about the rest of the "features".
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:5, Interesting)
If a 3.8% advantage is "massive", what words do you reserve for things that have advantages/improvements on the order of 50%+?
Re:Finally (Score:5, Interesting)
The only thing tying a lot of people (myself included) to Windows is gaming.
A lot? According to this interview with Ubisoft representatives, only 7% of Ubi's 2011 revenue was generated on PC and 5% of Activision's revenue:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/05/ubisoft-drm-piracy-interview/ [rockpapershotgun.com]
That means that >90% of gaming happens on other platforms anyway (consoles, smartphones) and for those users gaming is not what's keeping them on Windows.
From my experience with Windows users, many have a completely irrational attachment to Windows. They use it because they "know" it and they don't want Linux because they "don't know" it, even though their Windows installations are full of crapware and they could be fooled by any random Linux distribution with a Windows-themed splash screen.
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyone remembers Kylix (Borland Delphi for Linux)?
It was a great project but almost no one obtained or used it. It cost perhaps millions for Borland to develop and the cost (along with the unsuccessful Borland Java Builder) made Borland almost bankrupt.
I had the pleasure of using Kylix, but who else cares?
Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux users will embrace this but as a Windows user I know a little bit about other more novice users. Does anyone know if Valve would contemplate making a "console"/computer? e.g. sell a Ubuntu PC setup for gaming?
Re:Fear... (Score:5, Interesting)
What I hope is that Valve expects this, and is taking a chance at martyrdom for the greater good of gamers.
While forking and customization is the heart and soul of Linux, the fragmentation is also its weakness. With a target market of "only people who think like I do", each new standard sees only minimal adoption and leads to having whole branches of inheritance that are incompatible with each other. Consider, for example, the schism between RPM and dpkg packages. Effectively, a new project must be packaged twice, placing extra burden on the developer, or as (one format and) source, placing the extra burden on (some) users.
What I see as being immensely useful to Linux overall is having a major altruistic push toward compatibility, and Valve appears to be positioning itself to help. Tongue-in-cheek, I'll call it the One True Platform. Certainly not the only option, but rather a lofty goal of certain compatibility standards to be met. Rather than having to support Linux in general, with the myriad variations, a developer can just offer support for "Steam on Linux", work through Steam (and, conveniently/profitably, Valve's engines) as a compatibility layer, and trust that everything will be fine.
In large part, this process has already been begun by Ubuntu making a simple distro that usually just works (in some fashion), so it can be the baseline recommendation for users, reducing the burden on new users. With Steam as a baseline for game development, the burden on developers is also reduced. All together, that makes a single market for hardware vendors to target, with a fairly low support burden, hopefully leading to more cooperation from vendors in the long run.
It's a tricky game for Valve, with only a few long-shot chances at major profits, but if it works, the benefit to the Linux community is enormous. In the mean time, Valve gets to play the knight in shining armor, saving FOSS-loving gamers from the tyranny of Microsoft, which also distracts from Steam's inherent nature as DRM.
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:4, Interesting)
install software will be through Microsoft's app store
I've been hearing people say this, but it just makes no sense in any way whatsoever. Windows still has a desktop job to do, and it's a big enough market that there's no way they'll ignore it. Where is data to back up with mythical beast of a rumor?
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've heard this "year of the Linux desktop" used quite a bit, but never really from actual Linux users boasting. Normally I hear it from people looking to mock Linux users. I have to say since I gave up using windows in 2010 and moved to Ubuntu and Linux Mint, I've notice a lot more people using variations of Linux. I mean since I've made the switch, my Wife and in-laws have made the switch at my suggestion over buying brand new computers. My father and several cousins and friends I can think of have also made the switch, but I had nothing to do with them switching.
Maybe there won't be defined "This year is the year of the Linux desktop.", but I think it is and will continue to catch on.
Re:Not an open platform? (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't say Windows RT, I said WinRT. If you're confused, it's because Microsoft is masterful at making stupidly confusing names for things.
WinRT is the new API introduced with Windows 8 and Windows RT. It is available on both, and on Windows RT it is the only API available for 3rd party developers. It is locked down on both Windows 8 and Windows RT.
Re:Fear... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:5, Interesting)
No surprise there. The same applies to many different areas where Linux is way more efficient than Windows is. Everybody knows Windows is bloated beyond comprehension. I use Linux for my primary machine, and also use Windows machines daily and in comparison the Linux desktop smokes Windows. Everything from data processing, running virtual machines, LAN performance, you name it. Windows has a monopoly and since it has close to 90% of the market, software companies will continue to develop for it. If Linux had more market share, more companies would develop commercial software for it. So, even though Windows has a majority of the market share, it is definitely not the best OS. It's simply the most popular OS, for now.
Until Linux stops all their internal bickering and decides on one native standard for all gaming they will never been seen as better. The reason Microsoft dominates is because they standardized the market on Directx. Write once, work on all. For Linux it's not that easy yet and 3% performance doesn't outweigh the headaches.
Agree with both, but once Valve decides to bring Steam to the Linux party and get most of the games library working then two things happen:
1: one of the major reasons (if not *the* major reason) for using Windows at home disappears: gaming.
2: the Linux development community can go on bickering all they want, but unless their proposed solutions are compatible with what Valve are building Steam on they'll be irrelevant as no-one will use them. Steam will effectively create the standard.
Linux is simply better code and a better architecture than Windows, as it should be; it's had developers calling the shots not commercial managers. So it's not at all surprising that it will run stuff faster than Windows. I suspect a LOT faster once there's been a few iterations.
Interesting times :)
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:5, Interesting)
Originally I bought a Windows XP laptop that came with a free Vista upgrade, I should have stuck with XP. After the upgrade I started having all kinds of issues with drivers and blue screens, despite the fact that my laptop had a "Vista Ready" sticker on it. So I duel booted with Ubuntu 9.xx for a while, then eventually put the Windows 7 developers preview on. After the preview ran out and MS locked the OS I switched to Linux Mint and just forced myself to use it. After a few months I really felt I had a handle on it and Linux Mint was working way better than windows ever had for me. Then my brother and sister convinced me to start a Minecraft server and I found I could run the server or actually use the machine, but not both. The laptop was going on five years old at that point so I bought a new laptop from System 76 that came preloaded Ubuntu 12.04. So now my old Linux Mint laptop is a Mincraft/Meda server and my new laptop is for work and games.
What I found was when I was conformable doing things a certain way it was difficult to get away from Windows because I ended up having to relearn a bunch of stuff or just boot windows and get it done. Once I finally said, "Ok, no more Windows period" it was darker for awhile, but then everything got a lot easier. Now I use Linux for everything and find that windows doesn't have the tools in place to get things done.
Re:Finally (Score:5, Interesting)
Admittedly, I am not a lot of people, but more than 90+% of my gaming happens on a PC, and I game *a lot*. I don't so much refuse to buy a console as much as I really just don't like them and have never bothered with one since the original Nintendo. It may have something to do with how much I like FPS games. I do have some games on my tablet or phone, but those get played only when I'm bored or I can't get to my PC.
I'm also a System Engineer who works 95% of the time in Linux. I don't have any irrational need to stick to Windows. I cannot play the games I want to play on Linux, and I refuse to bother with WINE just to make a point. I'm happy Valve is looking into this, but until there is some serious traction on Linux gaming and a few other areas on the desktop, I'm sticking with Windows for everything that doesn't require me to code or run a server on it. It's not great, but it's sufficient, whereas desktop Linux isn't even sufficient for my needs.
And the applications... I swear, I must keep downloading The GIMP or Open/Libre/Whatever Office every six months or so hoping that trying to use it doesn't make me claw my eyes out. I get that I'm used to a lot of the Windows crap, so that's part of it, but I've been using office and image tools since I bought a toaster Mac, and I still don't understand why I can go from Mac to Windows seamlessly, but for some reason, the Linux version of everything needs to be different. And it's not that I just use MS or Adobe apps either.
Anyway, still waiting anxiously for someone to figure out games and to a lesser extent, applications, so I can switch my Windows box to be a VM under my Linux box, instead of vice-versa.
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:3, Interesting)
This says little about linux being better then windows.
It says a lot about valve optimizing it's graphics engine.
Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (Score:2, Interesting)
You know there are open and free licenses for software which had nothing to do with Stallman, right? Many people, myself included, find that these often unencumbered OSS licenses are even better than GNU.
I think you just successfully demonstrated the viewpoint that the GP was referring to...
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)