Archive.org Hosts Massive Collection of MAME ROMs 193
An anonymous reader writes to point out a giant gift to the world
from the Internet Archive: a massive collection of MAME ROMs, playable in your browser using Javascript Mess. From the blog post announcing this extension of the already mind-blowing Internet Archive: "Like the Historical Software collection, the Console Living Room is in beta – the ability to interact with software in near-instantaneous real-time comes with the occasional bumps and bruises. An army of volunteer elves are updating information about each of the hundreds of game cartridges now available, and will be improving them across the next few days. Sound is still not enabled, but is coming soon. Faster, more modern machines and up-to-date browsers work best with the JSMESS emulator."
Copyright (Score:4, Insightful)
Excuse me if I'm just not getting it but isn't this copyright infirngement?
Re:ROMs have always been a gray area... (Score:5, Insightful)
Legally, it isn't a grey area: It's civil infringement at the very least. The only area in which the 'not freely available' may come into play would be deciding upon the damages. If there is any copy-prevention technology involved or if you accept payment in any manner for distributing the roms, including accepting other infringing data in return (ie, using a torrent client) then it's also a criminal offense in the US under the DMCA and NET Act respectively.
On the other hand, screw the law. It's an unfair, counterproductive, rampantly abused law resulting only from a century of corporate lobbying and I have no respect for it whatsoever.
There is no way this is legal. (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at the stuff in the "MESS and MAME" collection. There's PSX dumps, there's Saturn dumps, and there's a whole bunch of arcade games that I know for a fact cannot be legally distributed (Raiden, Raiden Fighters, a couple of CAVE games, etc). I'm not even sure how legal those ROM dumps are even if you own the original arcade boards- almost all arcade PCBs have hardware protection on them (think of DRM, but a billion times worse), and in order to dump the ROM contents properly and/or run them you'd have to crack that protection first.
I mean, shit, this is basically a ROM hoarders wet dream. I have never ever seen that stuff hosted anywhere other then torrent websites. I'm honestly surprised that archive.org allowed this to be posted and I'm surprised the mamedev guys haven't freaked out over it, because this could potentially attract a lot of negative attention (and mamedev is very, very prone to sudden outbursts of illogical drama).
Re:42.8GB ZIP (Score:5, Insightful)
I wasn't going to comment until I had looked things over. But, yeah, all there is to see, is that poorly packaged humongous frigging zip file. I guess you have to download the whole damned thing, then decide if there is anything that you really want. FFS, I haven't seen anything quite so stupid in a long time.
Be patient.
They probably want to get it all out fast. By releasing it like this people will re-seed it. Had they sorted through all of it, created all the torrent seeds for it, we'd be waiting another month.
Plus, it's a lot harder to stop once the whole thing is out and about. Some of those vendors _are_ going to have a problem with this even though they have no interest in monetizing the things themselves, they'll get instantly jealous and go after them.
If you absolutely need re-packaged versions, just wait a while. Someone else will do the work for you and convenient little theme-based sections or company based sections will be released during the time you spend whining about it.
Re:42.8GB ZIP (Score:4, Insightful)
What is the problem with a 43GB file? I have several USB flash drives laying on my desk that can hold that.
Confirmation bias. Because it's not a problem for you, it's not a problem for anyone.
Just trying to understand, I'd personally much prefer a single huge file.
I'd prefer to be able to download the one or two ROMs I actually care about even if I'm using a mobile or otherwise limited platform. You can run MAME on Android these days. There is no way whatsoever for me to download that file to my Nexus 16GB, especially since I can't seem to get USB OTG working. It's non-trivial due to the stupidly 3.3v USB port.
Re:ROMs have always been a gray area... (Score:0, Insightful)
So nothing in your opinion should be preserved and shared? Yeah, this is not a good thing, but a GREAT thing that they are doing this. Fuck the copyright owners, if they won't give permission just because they want to keep the stuff away from public even when they themselves aren't distributing the software or if they just don't give a shit like they mostly don't. If it's abandoned in the sense that there's no distribution for what ever reason, the copyright is waived.
Re:42.8GB ZIP (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Might as well download an existing torrent (Score:2, Insightful)
To clarfy:
These games still have commercial value. If rights holders turned a blind eye, they would be effectively permitting commercial exploitation of the ROMs (and yes, people still pay to play them). Good news for some, perhaps, but bad for the few remaining amusement companies operating licensed machines, and bad for the rights holders who will find themselves facing competition from their own games. Also, if they don't defend the trademark violations they could find their properties in the public domain. While I'd love to be able to legally print and sell Pac Man t-shirts without licensing, I can't see that happening.
Oh, and if historical value mattered, Disney wouldn't still be successfully enforcing their copyright over the Silly Symphonies.
Whoever it ws at IA that thought 'oh, they won't care' is in for a rude awakening I suspect...
Re:ROMs have always been a gray area... (Score:2, Insightful)
My worry is that archive.org might suffer the same fate as mp3.com. Damn good service, but they decided to dip their toe into uncharted waters, and got torn to pieces by the armies of RIAA lawyers. Hell, the RIAA has been doing DRM for over a century.
Re:I am an author of one of these games (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you have to put this in context. Were you expecting to get any more money from the work you put into that product? I don't think it would be reasonable to expect that these games (or at least the vast majority of them) would ever make money again. (If you think otherwise, it sounds like you *have* legal recourse here because the games are not out of copyright.) If I were in your position, though (which I kind of have been a number of times now, except most of my games were non-commercial) I would just be glad that someone gave them new life for another generation. Otherwise it would have faded into obscurity, giving you even less than you have now.
Take a step back and see that they are not trying to insult the authors as you suggest, but benefit everyone and honor the authors by propagating the work that would otherwise have faded away. I suspect (just a guess) you might be surprised at how accommodating and respectful these folks would be toward original authors if you approach them as a friend. You see them as an enemy, but really I think they are just trying to save and re-popularize something worth saving and appreciating for a bit longer, and couldn't find a practical way to contact a zillion non-existent authors in the process.
Re:I am an author of one of these games (Score:2, Insightful)
Were you paid to do your work?
I wasn't. I'm an independent musician who financed my own album and am now out several thousand dollars because of pirates. Please tell me where your argument stands on this. By the way, your arrogant comment of "Okay, then we're good" would be more accurately written as "Okay, then I'm good because I get what I want for free, and you ought to be good because, even if you didn't agree with my conditions and breaking of your contract, well, you know, I'm better and I get to choose what makes you feel good".
Your argument is disingenuous at best. If you had any sense of fairness, you'd realize that authors and musicians and artists choose a business model, and if you disagree with that business model then you should just not buy the stuff. Let the creative people lose out fairly. That means you assume they're adults who made a choice of business model with full awareness of the legal risks. Illegal downloading is a risk too, I know. But it's a really heartbreaking and awful risk to have to realize when you're just trying to make a buck.