The Real Scars of Korean Gaming 126
An anonymous reader writes: Professional e-sports have been slowly but steadily gaining a following in the U.S. over the past couple of decades, but in South Korea, it's already arrived as a popular form of entertainment. An article at the BBC takes a look at the e-sports scene there, which is generating huge salaries for the top players, but also injuries and insular lifestyles. It's growing more similar to traditional pro sports all the time. From the article: "A scar, half an inch wide, stretched from just above the elbow and up over his shoulder. 'Our company paid for full medical expenses, so he had an operation,' explained his coach, Kang Doh Kyung. [He] is the best player in StarCraft and has won everything in this field and is still going strong.' Repetitive strain had injured Mr Lee's muscles, deforming them and making surgery the only option to save his illustrious career."
well, of course... (Score:3)
Re:im not sure what to make of this (Score:5, Insightful)
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So Golf ain't no sport?
Re: im not sure what to make of this (Score:2)
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Nope. Golf is a game, not a sport.
As an obsessive and compulsive new golfer, I agree with this.
Now, off to bed so I have a good game tomorrow after spending past 2 evenings at driving range, doing back yard chipping this afternoon, and having played a game 2 days ago.
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Etymology of the word sport says it comes from disport, or 'leisure'. By that meaning, electronic gaming can be considered sport just like physical sports, but both lose claim to the term in professional setting, where the game is no longer leisure.
Another interpretation is that it comes from various words meaning 'competition' or 'struggle'. Those origins allow for 'professional sports' to not be a paradox, but in no way disallow e-sports, where the struggle is just as real as in physical sports.
Re:im not sure what to make of this (Score:4, Interesting)
Bobby Fischer was on the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1972.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK5TQSKmS3o [youtube.com] Chess Boxing!
Re: im not sure what to make of this (Score:1)
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that's quite funny in an article about a stress injury requiring surgery happening to a player of the sport.
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You've obviously never been good at Starcraft. I'm a skinny guy, but I break out into sweats when I'm playing a fast-paced game! It's not so much about strength, but endurance, concentration, and accuracy. I know people might not understand it, but don't write off progamers just because you don't get it.
Re:im not sure what to make of this (Score:5, Insightful)
Competitive chess is a game not a sport IMO and video gaming would fall into the same category as chess.
not knocking the skill, just not sure sport is the right word
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Like people who fly airplanes vs those who program UAVs. There are similarities and there are differences. Both do fly however.
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Yeah brakes were such a huge game changer for auto racing.
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twas but a joke
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Let's cut the crap. All those similar competitive GAMES require a similar mind set. Greed, an ability not to get mindlessly bored doing the same thing over and over and over ad infinitum, an inability to achieve anything beyond that (otherwise they would) and of course a total willingness to publicly lie about the virtues of products they are paid promote. 'Er' yah, three cheers for that, why, seriously why?
Hey, I think you just described a career! Well, marketing anyway.
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Let's cut the crap. All those similar competitive GAMES require a similar mind set. Greed, an ability not to get mindlessly bored doing the same thing over and over and over ad infinitum, an inability to achieve anything beyond that (otherwise they would) and of course a total willingness to publicly lie about the virtues of products they are paid promote. 'Er' yah, three cheers for that, why, seriously why?
So, exactly the same as the National $SPORTSNAMEHERE League Associations!
OK, seriously - there's a reason the majority of sports stars retire into obscurity. Worse for college athletes, who get cheated out of an education so they can Play In The Big Game.
e-sports are probably in a better place right now, since there's not enough money involved yet for it to turn into a puppy mill for geeks in the way the jocks get chewed up in sports.
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It is better that tax payer funds are only used to promote participating sports and not spectating sports. Why should people pay to subsidise sports advertising.
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So what about things like skeet shooting? Or ski shooting, a sport where being the fastest and fittest doesn't necessarily mean you're going to win? What about car drivers who do very little physical movement, like any other motor sports?
There are sports about strength, sports about speed, sports about the reflexes, sports about the mind, and sports which muddle all of the above.
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Forgot to say accuracy
Re:im not sure what to make of this (Score:5, Insightful)
To further make the point, are bowling, golf, darts, billiards, or auto racing sports? None of them require much in the way of athleticism, yet they are all considered sports and have professionals who can make a living engaging in them. Which of those, if any, are also on the chopping block?
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"To further make the point, are bowling, golf, darts, billiards, or auto racing sports? None of them require much in the way of athleticism"
Formula 1 drivers are subjected to quite high forces, and require excellent physical condition to avoid injuries / unsafe situations.
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I think (just as you indicate) most people really have no idea about the physical demands a Formula 1 driver has to endure. They have to be ridiculously fit. Most normal people would not stand simply riding along for a single lap at race conditions.
Now, since bowling, golf, dart and billiards *are* indeed classified as sports, I can't see why professional (and indeed, non-professional as well) gaming involving coordination, motor and thinking skills to a very high degree should be classified as anything but
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"To further make the point, are bowling, golf, darts, billiards, or auto racing sports? None of them require much in the way of athleticism"
Formula 1 drivers are subjected to quite high forces, and require excellent physical condition to avoid injuries / unsafe situations.
When race drivers go for a drive to get exercise, I'd consider driving a sport (despite the motor-sport moniker).
I'm not saying the drivers aren't fit, just that they use sports to get fit so they can drive competitively.
IMHO, etc.
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When race drivers go for a drive to get exercise, I'd consider driving a sport (despite the motor-sport moniker).
I'm not saying the drivers aren't fit, just that they use sports to get fit so they can drive competitively.
Which differs for other sports like soccer in which way exactly? If you don't have basic strength, agility and stamina you will not be able to play soccer effectively. Basic training comes before training with the ball or actually playing a match for soccer players too. I see no difference in the case of competitive driving.
I think you don't understand the physical fitness required. I might understand that hopping on a F1 is not feasible, but hopping on a competitive 2-stroke 125cc go-kart is. Most newcomer
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When race drivers go for a drive to get exercise, I'd consider driving a sport (despite the motor-sport moniker).
I'm not saying the drivers aren't fit, just that they use sports to get fit so they can drive competitively.
Which differs for other sports like soccer in which way exactly?
Playing soccer is exercise in and of itself, that's how. Of course, elite players work out so they can play soccer (etc) better, but the game itself is excellent exercise, hence it's a sport.
I think you don't understand the physical fitness required. I might understand that hopping on a F1 is not feasible, but hopping on a competitive 2-stroke 125cc go-kart is. Most newcomers last a couple of laps before they are completely exhausted.
While I don't necessarily disagree, I still don't think many (anyone?) goes for a drive for exercise, and if they do, then I'm pretty sure a coach of some sort would tell them "You're doing it wrong. Drive for practise; play sports for exercise, stamina, cardio, strength..."
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Playing soccer is exercise in and of itself, that's how. Of course, elite players work out so they can play soccer (etc) better, but the game itself is excellent exercise, hence it's a sport.
Then competitive driving is a sport too since it's excellent exercise by itself too. Of course serious racers work out so they can race better, but competitive driving itself is excellent exercise, hence it's a sport. Actually some competitive motor racing sports are among the most physically demanding sports in existence.
While I don't necessarily disagree, I still don't think many (anyone?) goes for a drive for exercise, and if they do, then I'm pretty sure a coach of some sort would tell them "You're doing it wrong. Drive for practise; play sports for exercise, stamina, cardio, strength..."
I know a lot of people who use go-karting as a way to train their stamina, cardio, strength and have fun. Other kinds of racing sports are typically much more expensive, so you are unlikel
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I've been around billiards and played billiards all my life. I love it. And I would not consider it a sport. It is a game. Games can require a measure of physical skill and still be games.
Here's as close as I can come to proof: take money out, and leagues, and "pro" anything out. Did it ever occur to you while playing Pac-Man that it was a SPORT? Are you going to a billiards match, or are you going to shoot a GAME of pool? Give me a break.
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To further make the point, are bowling, golf, darts, billiards, or auto racing sports? None of them require much in the way of athleticism, yet they are all considered sports and have professionals who can make a living engaging in them
As people have noted below, you're wrong about auto racing, but the others are all games, not sports. Being able to make a professional living out of something is irrelevant. Antique dealers and bricklayers aren't sportsmen.
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I swim for fun, not for competition. As does the majority of people in the world.
It's harder to play at baseball without coupling it with the game.
Re: im not sure what to make of this (Score:2)
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I guess that really depends on whether speed or endurance is the chief feature.
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Not knocking the skill, just not sure sport is the right word
That's always a good excuse to consult the dictionary! The OED, for instance, has an extensive entry on this word. TL;DR: It's the right word.
If you're gonna make up your own definitions, you're always gonna have to qualify them everytime you use words in your own idiosyncratic way.
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when i think of "sport" i think of athleticism. Swimming, baseball football
Just to be clear - when you say swimming are you also counting "falling off a cliff gracefully" and "underwater dance"?
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Linux is a heavier abstraction for running software, so in that sense Linux has more operating system to it than DOS.
But by using that measure, Java/JVM is more of an operating system than Linux. A far more complete abstraction for running software.
Not sure how far we should drag your analogy around, but we can start beating the dead DOS horse at any time.
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How is it any less of a sport than, say, chasing a ball around on a field?
Hemingway: 'There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.'
I really don't get bullfighting, but the point is that a sport has to involve (a) physical prowess and (b) a serious risk of dying. Traditional "field sports" like hunting, shooting and fishing fail by this second measure, as billiards fails by the first.
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It not ENTERTAINING athleticism.
I spend more time being entertained watching starcraft than watching football.
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This explains why e-sport jocks still make fun of nerds, like real jocks but without a coach to tell them what good sportsmanship is.
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Pulling a trigger is, throwing something a little bit is, hitting each other in the face is, walking is, going downhill on a plank is, ...
What the fuck isn't a sport nowadays and if it still takes a good amount of skill, why act as if its completely stupid? Its not like the cyclist has something to do at the end of the finish line, he is an idiot for spending so much energy getting there fast. Why is playing a skillful game not an acceptable sport? Because its digital and might require a little less muscle
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All of them at least require being outside (some sports like sumo or basketball are inside but make up for it by being physical).
I would not call these things sports, not even e-sports. They're gaming competitions, nothing more than that. There is some contention about whether or not chess is a sport, but everyone at least agrees it's not an athletic event. Playing music is not a sport, even though it for some instruments it takes more athleticism than golf. If any nerd ever deserved to get a wedgie, it
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Playing a drum kit for two 1.5 hour sets and then a 45 minute set closer is definitely work. I do not know if it should be called a sport (though you can compete - see rudimentary drumming for instance or a drum corps, drum line, etc) but it sure as hell is work.
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Play a woodwind, or be a singer, there's a whole lot of breath control required which means staying in shape.
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Good point. I imagine they are really working to keep the music at the same level the entire time too. I have done lots of singing but mostly backup or just a few songs in a set. So, yeah, I am not too tired after that.
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Or even better http://www.goodasyou.org/good_... [goodasyou.org]
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A trigger attached to a rifle for hunting, in some peoples definitions, is sport, or has been considered such. Some would exclude hunting but would allow for target shooting. The term sportsman is often applied.
Pulling the trigger attached to a pistol-grip soldering iron, or a reciprocating saw, or a drill doesn't count. Neither does pulling the trigger on a firearm in the commission of a felony.
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Neither does pulling the trigger on a firearm in the commission of a felony.
I dunno... That could be the most extreme sport there is. Hypermode? Play it in Texas.
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Yes, yes it is.
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They use the term esport to differentiate from traditional sports. Clearly it's what would be categorized as a competitive game, like poker, chess, and other competitive games, and not a sport, which historically differed from a competitive game via athleticism.
In that sense, would you consider bowling or golf sports? Certainly neither are what most would consider athletic. It's more or less a meaningless distinction, though.
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Not very sporting...
Re: im not sure what to make of this (Score:1)
Re:im not sure what to make of this (Score:4, Insightful)
i mean thats cool and all...but button mashing is now a sport???
It's an e-sport. E-sport is a different word than 'sport' and it can mean something different.
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[He] is the best player in StarCraft and has won everything in this field and is still going strong
i mean thats cool and all...but button mashing is now a sport???
I'm not sure why that was modded "Troll" but, any activity, certainly any game, that people are willing to spectate will be called a "sport". From the OED:
sport, n.1
[Aphetic form of disport n.]
I. 1.I.1 a.I.1.a Pleasant pastime; entertainment or amusement; recreation, diversion.
It's only recently (last hundred years) that we've come to associate the word "sport" more with physical exertion, as in team sports and Olympic-type sports.
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I hope someone will helpfully tell which ones are the fascists and which ones are the thugs. I sure wouldn't want to have to do any thinking about it.
Free software and e-sports (Score:4, Interesting)
Can Mr. Lee fly around the world delivering lectures on free software?
That depends on how long until a game's publisher makes the news for using copyright to stop "public performances" by a league that the publisher doesn't like. An article by Kyle Orland [arstechnica.com] mentions that Nintendo has already shut down Smash Bros. tournaments, and Capcom routinely requires royalty payments to hold Street Fighter tournaments. Once more publishers adopt that practice, e-sports leagues may have to move to developing games for distribution under a free software license.
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They have? Last I checked they have since backtracked to the point of sponsoring some tournaments. Which one did they shut down?
If you're for-profit charge people to watch, yes.
The leagues aren't relevant if no one plays the game. And gi
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Nintendo has already shut down Smash Bros. tournaments
They have? Last I checked they have since backtracked to the point of sponsoring some tournaments.
The problem is that there existed a position from which to back down. Any other video game publisher can choose to adopt the position from which Nintendo backed down, and Nintendo itself can return to that position if it chooses.
Which one did they shut down?
The Ars Technica article I linked mentions a Major League Gaming tournament in 2010.
Capcom routinely requires royalty payments to hold Street Fighter tournaments
If you're for-profit charge people to watch, yes.
The key difference between a tennis tournament and a Magical Tetris Challenge tournament is that there is no "The Tennis Company LLC" to which a royalty is due in order to broadcast a tennis match fo
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It's not so much clicking the mouse buttons that causes RSI as the small wrist movements. "Proper" ergonomics says to use your whole arm when using the mouse but that's really hard to do when quick, tiny, precise motions are needed. I'm not convinced that would prevent RSI anyway, it would just be in a different location.
If you have ever worked in graphics (or apparently played high-level e-sports) then you know the strain that puts on your wrist. I used to do 3D modeling and would regularly switch hands wh
Re:No. (Score:4, Interesting)
No. Competition does not equal sport: I've heard professional chess players do weight lifting, but chess and StarCraft competitions are not a sport.
That's why it's an e-sport. There's a distinction and everyone knows what it means.
boring (Score:2)
watching e-sports is just as boring as watching other sports - i fast-forward over it when watching Good Game just as i fast-forward over sports during the news. fortunately, GG only wastes a minute or two on it every few weeks, while the news wastes 10-20 minutes on it every night.
playing sport and video games can be fun. watching other people play is fucking tedious.
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I recently had someone explain it to me as "Well, when I was growing up I'd watch my friend play video games but I didn't really like playing them so much myself"... I still don't get it.
Most people should grow out of that at what, eight years old when they learn how to play most games themselves?
I understand why people would rather watch things than participate because of the risk, expense, or physical exertion, but why are we making video games that intimidate wider and wider ranges of people?
By all means, please invent a sport involving motorcycles on ice with chainsaws, but not another real time strategy game that people are afraid to play. Computers shouldn't harbor exclusivity.
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Given the millions playing LoL, I don't get the impression that they "intimidate" anyone. On the other hand, there are people who like to play the game AND like seeing people play it at the highest levels possible, and this is true for many games.
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Now, Mutant League Football and Hockey were simply awesome.
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Most people should grow out of that at what, eight years old when they learn how to play most games themselves?
So most people should grow out of watching soccer at age eight? Because, *anyone* can play soccer, right?
People don't just watch video games on Twitch because they are scared of playing them...I'd say those numbers are insignificantly low. People watch video games on Twitch for a variety of reasons: they like watching people play the game who are way better than they are, or are worse than they are (slapstick funny), or to learn strategies, or just for plain straightforward enjoyment of the medium on it's o
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I am old but I gamed for many years - back when it was mandatory to have a shovel full of quarters even. Drunk Pac-Man anyone?
Anyhow, I enjoy watching people play more than I enjoy playing. I do not watch competitions or anything but I enjoy watching folks play RPGs or even a few of the FPS games out there. I do not actually play any games now. I have not for 10 years or so.
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I used to think the same thing until I started watching twitch. There are a whole lot of clever people out there, and particularly with "builder" type games (KSP, in my case), it's kinda fun to see how other people approach the same problems and what solutions they end up with. I doubt I'd bother watching someone play an FPS, but I like watching Starcraft, DoTA, and KSP.
I've watched the odd TF2 match online, and like most sports it depends a lot on the production values - do they get good footage, are the commentators interesting, etc etc.
I used to be a professional gamer. (Score:4, Funny)
Then I took an arrow to the wrist.
So what? (Score:2)
How many injury and/or operations does a usual sports player get in the course of his/her career? Basketball players, football players (both American and European), tennis players, skaters, swimmers, runners, etc, ALL suffer injuries over their career and not surprisingly some of them are repetitive injuries from practicing the same motion over and over. Where's the outrage over those? Where is "The Real Scars of American Sports"?
Heck, even *office workers* suffer RSI for using the mouse for too long!
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There is no outrage because the players get paid a lot of money and by the time they reach the professional level they know the risks. The nanny state is becoming suffocating. Life isn't 100% safe.It will never be 100% safe. But there is a 100% chance you will die someday and personally I have no intention of dying with a perfect looking corpse. And if you want to see the "The Real Scars of American Sports" you can just look at my body for some real examples.
There are a lot of injuries that happen long before the "lot of money" arrives. You just don't hear about them because they lose their scholarships (or maybe didn't make it to college at all if they got hurt in high school), and they end up working normal day jobs like the rest of us - just with bad backs and trick knees. Maybe their memory isn't all that good.
Just remember - anyone who got hurt in college made *zero* dollars, because the NCAA doesn't allow their athletes to make money. Money is for coaches
It's Flash (Score:3)
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Button mashing is not a fucking sport. And it's not worth anyone's time watching for a second.
It would be if electroshock was involved...