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PC Games (Games) Role Playing (Games)

Massive Star Wars Galaxies Revamp 74

Posted by Zonk from the ch-ch-ch-changes dept.
Shockeye writes "Over at f13.net we have posted an on-site report on the upcoming Star Wars Galaxies overhaul. SOE and LucasArts are changing the entire core of the game in order to make things more fun and make you feel like you really are a part of the Star Wars Universe." Indeed, F13 has the goods, and a lot of analysis in their forums. Available elsewhere is the community letter that unveiled the changes, commentary from Aggro Me, and a breakdown of what exactly is happening. From F13: "I don't know how else to explain it other than SOE has done the right thing. They've revitalized combat in an MMOG. It's a huge step in the right direction. Do I think they'll perfect it here? No. But it's by far the most interesting thing a studio has done. They've taken a gamble, and from what I've seen it's paid off. In other words, they've added the 'Wars' back to Star Wars. It's been in the works for over a year now. In fact, the expansions could probably be called smokescreens for the launch of the real game. It'll shake things up."
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Massive Star Wars Galaxies Revamp More

Massive Star Wars Galaxies Revamp

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  • Good to see a publisher step up. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by flipper65 ( 794710 ) on Thursday November 03, 2005 @11:44AM (#13941187) Homepage
    Good for SOE, it takes a lot to swallow your pride and admit that your game is not up to snuff. Then to suck it up and put the time, effort and money into improving it shows some backbone and character. I haven't played galaxies for about six months now, but I may very well give it another shot.

  • Woo, Combat. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Thursday November 03, 2005 @11:51AM (#13941250)
    There are so many forms of competition that multiple humans can engage in. Why the obscession with combat in MMORPGs? Are we all savages? I can only think of one massive game out there that breaks the mold, and is marketed as a mainstream title. With all these competing developers trying to differentiate themselves, why aren't we seeing more games where the focus is something other than combat? While they're at it, they can try to come up with something where the number of hours you've logged in the game (experience points) and how quick your reflexes are, or how big a group you can coordinate as the sole characteristics that determine victory.

    I think it's time we look back into the history of multi-player online gaming and start to pull some concepts from BBS doors. Sure, some had combat... Real-time even; but many had other forms of competition as well. Trading, creative construction, logic, politics, etc...
    • There are so many forms of competition that multiple humans can engage in. Why the obscession with combat in MMORPGs?

      Just a guess -- warfare has serious consequences in real life for both oneself and others, so pursuing it in a virtual form is more attractive than doing something online that could be done as safely in reality.

      • I agree and understand that is a good reason for combat to be a popular topic for games, rather than an everyday real-life activity. Popularity is one thing. It doesn't explain why it's practically the only thing that MMORPGs focus on though. There are plenty of activities that are beyond the capabilities of most people in real life, have concequences too great to practice in a non-virtual setting, or involve levels of technology or fantasy so great as to be impossible in real life... Yet the video games o
        • If you are waiting for Snuff Video Director:Online, I think its slated for 2007 but Rockstar's site still has it listed as TBA.

        • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by bugbread ( 599172 ) on Thursday November 03, 2005 @02:15PM (#13942648)
          Yet the video games on the shelf at your local game store focus on combat almost exclusively.

          And yet you've chosen a genre (MMORPGs) known for having much more than combat as your venue for this complaint? I played and rapidly quit SWG. It wasn't, for me, much fun. But I don't hesitate to point out that it offered not only fighting, but crafting, economics, politics, dancing, music, and role playing. Not all beautifully rounded out (dancing and music weren't implemented so great), but some of it was quite full (read any forums about price gouging, merchant guilds in price collusion, and the like for insight about how important the economic sphere was to the game...and remember that it wasn't just gouging for combat related things, but decorative clothing, home furnishings, vehicles, mounts, and the like).

          It's like complaining about how violence is all you see on TV in a discussion about an episode of the Golden Girls where one person slaps another.
          • But I don't hesitate to point out that it offered not only fighting, but crafting, economics, politics, dancing, music, and role playing.

            Offering those things doesn't change the fact that combat is the focus. In practically every one of these games the items, skill points, money, etc... all originate as spoils of combat. Sure there are exceptions, but they're just that. Exceptions.

            • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:2, Insightful)

              by XenoRyet ( 824514 )
              In this particular instance, combat is a main focus because the Universe the game is set in ( one that was established before the game was even thought of) is engauged in a war that touches nearly every aspect of that Universe. That may just push the argument back a level to why war makes a compelling story, but it does explain this instance.

              I also belive it is inaccurate to say that practicaly every game item, skill point, and money originate from combat. I've had a Galaxies character since launch, and

            • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:3, Insightful)

              by bugbread ( 599172 )
              And, again, this brings up the point: why are you then discussing it in a topic about this game? When I played SWG, I was a roleplaying dancer/musician, who also crafted on the side. Combat was a diversion to me. I gained my raw materials through mining. I gained my items by creating them using my mined resources, or the money I obtained from selling my mined resources in order to buy other materials. I gained skill points by crafting, dancing, and playing music. I gained my money by (again) selling m

    • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by EngineeringMarvel ( 783720 ) on Thursday November 03, 2005 @12:59PM (#13941976)
      Trading, creative construction, logic, politics

      I'm not sure if you have played SWG before, but I did for about 6 months some time before the first revamp. SWG actually does have political and economical competition. More so than any other MMORPG I have played. The very fact that players in SWG can setup their own stores and market their own crafted items through those stores makes it unique. The political arena in the game is different too. Player created towns have their own mayors that are actually elected upon by the citizens who belong to that particular town. I have seen on many occassions in the town my toon lived in having a very active mayor race. I can't tell you how many times the the players in the race would chat with me about what I wanted the town to be and what they would do as mayor. You really picked a bad topic/game to make a point about how games are combat centric.

      • You really picked a bad topic/game to make a point about how games are combat centric.

        Not at all. SWG had an economy and politics, as well as an awesome crafting system and even entertainer professions, and nobody cared! All you hear people bitching about was the combat, and THAT'S what the devs focused on. Part of the problem is that Star Wars, based on the movies, should have a large combat quotient -- to that extent, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would have loved to try the non-combat as

        • Go read the forums at www.eve-online.com and you'll find plenty of people bitching about economics and politics along with the combat.
          • While you're there, check out the new video [eve-online.com] they did. Very nice space scenes and combat shots, all in-engine and a great electronica soundtrack.

            The only reason I dropped out is because I wanted to play lone wolf and the gameplay turned into corp v corp so a solo player had no chance.
        • I think the point that people miss isn't combat vs not-combat. It is combat for a reason vs combat without a reason. No MMORPG to date has managed to make combat have a point. People go out and fight get better and fighting and score ph4t l00t. I personally would be madly impressed with a game that let you join an orginization of mercenaries and spend your time actually being a mercenary. Or imagine a game where you could join an army and actually get to act like a soldier.

          I'll be impressed the day an
          • You must not remember Shadowbane. The game was all about PVP and guild v. guild. People joined guilds, built cities, and attacked other guilds and destroyed their cities. Whole continents could be controled by large guilds.

      • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:1, Redundant)

        by ivan256 ( 17499 ) *
        I think that you've made a rediculous statement given that this article is about how they're just finishing up revitializing combat in SWG. If it didn't have a combat focus before, well guess what. It does now. Or at least they want it to.

    • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by badasscat ( 563442 )
      there are so many forms of competition that multiple humans can engage in. Why the obscession with combat in MMORPGs?

      Well, it is called Star Wars. What would you expect a MMO game based on Star Wars to be like? Have you not seen the movies? The whole point of them is the good vs. evil swashbuckling-style space combat. (Lucas himself seemed to have forgotten this for a while...)

      Maybe there's room for a non-combat oriented MMORPG on the market, but Star Wars Galaxies should not be that game. It's not Sta
      • Well, it is called Star Wars. What would you expect a MMO game based on Star Wars to be like?

        There are many more MMORPGs out there than SWG. What's the excuse for those?
    • Combat is used because it is psychologically received as the ultimate conflict, the one where you give everything because you can lose everything (well, your life for a start). That's why war will never go away, because any conflict that escalates beyond control will come to where it can not escalate any further because there's nothing beyond "total war". Combat is the same thing on the personal scale, you can't escalate the conflict beyond wanting to kill each other.

      The problem you point out quite correctl

    • Re:Woo, Combat. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Xarius ( 691264 )
      FFXI (which I play) has trading on a large level, from Auction Houses down to individual player Bazaars.

      * Crafting is a massive part of the game, where you can learn cooking, woodworking, fishing, alchemy, goldsmithing etc.
      * The politics is quite prominent, where each of the three nations (Jeuno is neutral) competes for control of territory, thus dictating prices in that area, NPC's etc. If one nation controls area foo, certain shops may stock items bar for that amount of time
      * The quests are numerous, and
    • Combat is probably one of the simplest concepts for people to grasp. The logic behind trade, construction, and politics are a bit more complex than "Make that guy die because he's trying to make me die"

      Not everyone has the mindset for trade or politics, but everyone understands survival.
      • "War is merely a continuation of politics" -Carl von Clausewitz [wikipedia.org]
        • To me, combat != War.

          Many MMO's have plenty of combat, but are lacking in war.
          • This is the most brilliant comment in the entire discussion.

            UO had some real invasions, EQ had one or two, and badly executed. And people whine about an invasion messing up their cross-continental journey to go camp SoAndSo.

            Some games did Realm vs. Realm (Dark Age of Camelot, as well as the good vs. evil and humans vs. elves vs. shorties vs. fatties servers.) And that sort of brings in the PvP action of Quake, although on a sordidly deficient scale.

            It's the unknown that (well-done) PvP and invasions bring
    • I think this whole incident illustrates precisely why there are so few non-combat oriented MMORPGs. SWG was by far one of the most expansive and ambitious in this regard at launch. It had lots of combat for sure, but you could find quite a rewarding play experience never fighting a single battle. Crafters, Entertainers, Resource Gatherers all had very vital roles in the economy. And look what happened. It wasn't nearly as succesful a game as the Star Wars license demanded. The developers surveyed the p
    • Combat and violence are exciting because, even if symbolically, they represent the ultimates: ultimate risk (dying), ultimate reward (the projection of power, which is the prerequisite to other forms of reward), ultimate domination (the ability to destroy the other.)

      Don't get me wrong - I'm as tired of the dominance of the adolescent power fantasy in gaming as anyone. But it does little good to complain about it without looking at exactly what makes combat and violence so compelling - because even though I'
  • They already did this once. It was called the combat revamp. It failed miserably and SWG lost many of its customers. Do they really expect doing the same thing again will appeal to anyone?
    • Well, at least now you can play a Wookie.

    • Re:Here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EddieBurkett ( 614927 ) on Thursday November 03, 2005 @01:05PM (#13942025)

      The first CU taught me that sometimes you have to ignore everyone bitching about the change to make a better game. Once you got past the fact that certain people were screwed by the CU, it was easy to see that combat had improved. (Of course, the best part of the first CU was that when I finally did get fed up with SOE and cancelled my subscription, I already had an understanding of how to play WoW.)

      Also, since they've already been losing people, why not completely gut the system and rebuild it? It can't hurt anymore than it already is; they can only gain subscriptions at this point.

      If there's anyone I feel bad for, its the people that have stuck with the game since launch. This is now the second time they've had the rug pulled out from under them. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... we won't get fooled again" notwithstanding, Sony REALLY bit them in the ass by launching the newest expansion in the last week, and NOW revealing what is going on. How many people purchased that expansion only to find out that they won't be able to use it like they thought in the upcoming game? That's quite the low blow.

      Despite all that, I was about due to resubscribe to SWG to keep my character 'alive' and check up on the state of the game. I doubt I'll play for more than a month, but this certainly sounds like an interesting month to check in.

      Its a shame that a game with such promise as SWG is being run by such clueles asshats as they have at SOE (and apparently LucasArts, as well.)

    • People keep saying that the first CU drove out a ton of subscribers but I've never seen any evidence to support that. I played SWG for 6 months after launch and picked it up again after the CU. The server I played on was as crowded as ever and I ran into a ridiculous number of people who recognized my old character despite the fact that he'd been on ice for quite a while. My suspicion is that there is a small but vocal contingent that was unhappy with the change and even more unhappy that it didn't sink

  • Well, kudos to SOE. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sc0ttyb ( 833038 ) * on Thursday November 03, 2005 @11:57AM (#13941323)
    This just might get me off my addiction to WoW so I can feed another addiction.

    I quit SWG several months ago because I just got bored. A couple friends hounded me to try WoW, and I since I had just gotten burned out on SWG I was reluctant to play it. Once I did, though, it snared me. I don't know what it is, but WoW just made MMORPGs fun for me again. Maybe it's because when you level up you actually FEEL more powerful and can visibly confirm it. There are no encumbrance stats to worry about, just level/class requirements. I like that. Simple where it counts, complex when needed.

    Though I do miss the player structures (houses, guild halls, cantinas), huge amounts of customization, and depth of crafting/trade in SWG. Maybe Blizzard will add some of those things in the future.
  • Combat is now more action-oriented and feels like the action-packed combat depicted in the Star Wars movies - the new system is about 4 times faster than the current combat interaction. Movement speeds are fast and weapons fire at incredibly high rates of speed. These high rates of speed for movement and combat bring the Star Wars Galaxies combat experience to life and put players in control of every move and swing of a weapon.

    I've never played it, but sounds like it is moving towards an FPS rather than Eve
    • Of course you can't, you would never make it past level 1...
    • I stopped reading the f13 article after the second time I read that the game will involve "skill" now. Hand-eye coordination is not skill-- it's hand-eye coordination. Being able to twitch the mouse faster than the other guy is not skill-- it's being able to twitch the mouse faster than the other guy.

      Skill is relative to the game you're playing. In chess, it's being able to think 50 moves ahead. In other games, it's always knowing the right thing to do at the right time. I'm a "skilled" monopoly player. K

      • The dictionary definition of skill states that a skill is a Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.

        Hand-eye coordination is most definitly a dexterity that can be developed through training. Proficiency at twitching the mouse faster and more accurately than the other fellow can certainly be developed through training and experience.

        True that these are not skill traditionaly assosiated with MMO's, but I do have to disagree with you and say that

    • Don't know about the new, but in the old system you could play a storm trooper career. Pick the Commando profession for the Imperials, and earn enough faction points to get your armor. I knew several people who did it.
  • I have both and am letting my SWG subscription lapse. WoW has some essential features that make it better right now:
    1. "Boss Key" - if I play at work, I MUST be able to Alt-Tab into a work appliaction when someone wanders behind me. WoW does this instantly. SWG takes 3 minutes.
    2. Online manual - the manual in the box in now useless the game has changed so much. I took a few months off and found my armor no longer worked, my profession (doctor) changed beyond recognition and my combat skills were all cha
  • Today our player professions by percent of masters is significantly skewed to the core combat professions as a very small proportion of our player (less than 1% of players) choose to master the professions of Bio Engineer or Creature Handler. For this reason, we are putting the focus where the majority of our players are putting their game-play investment -- on the core profession paths.

    Of course nobody's playing Creature Handlers, because they've been broken beyond usefulness. And for SOE to promise new t
  • Bye, bye little rodian guy Drove my speeder to Mos Eisley, but cantina was dry See old storm troopers, drink jawa beer and cry The day that this game died. The new expansion was a total scam, they suckered people into with things that are invalidated at the end of the month. Perhaps they are trying to admit they screwed the pooch with the first CU, but fixing the broken things and not listening to the amplified voices of carebears was all that was ever really needed in the first place. It almost seems lik

  • This is impossible due to lag (Score:3, Informative)

    by rbanzai ( 596355 ) on Thursday November 03, 2005 @02:19PM (#13942691)
    Lag is frequently so bad in SWG (even in semi-deserted areas) that combat can be a slideshow where you're suddenly dead from an enemy that never even showed up on your radar.

    There is no way... NONE... that they can make this "real time" thing work unless there is a fundamental change to the way the servers run. Collision detection? Are they crazy? Just try driving your speeder through the cities around Coronet on pretty much any server and watch the screen jump and bob and snap as objects and house pop up and vanish. And that's just driving! :)

    In WoW this kind of lag usually only appeared in a heavily populated area. In a battle with more than say 15 people things could slow down. In SWG lag is an ever present, mind-numbing pox.
    • sounds like someone needs to update their hardware. i was playing the game earlier this year to see what the combat update did . the only time i had lag issues was when i walked into a packed cantina and the game had to load all the models on the screen. (my game box: 2.4Ghz P4, 1GB Corsair XMS, Sata 80gb, Radeon 9600XT)

      there use to be problems with warping back a few hundred meters while driving, but that seems to be largely taken care of. however, YMMV obviously. i am merely trying to point out that no
      • You might want to read the tech forums at SWG some time. The problem is not only awful it is not client based. This is not an issue of PC speed and texture loading. My PC specs far exceed yours and I have been playing SWG since beta.

        Nice try, we have some lovely parting gifts for you! ;)
  • The new combat changes will make it even more fun to play as Jedi. Now instead of watching your toon auto-dealing out the pain to all those who dare oppose your Jedi and all the dedicated hardcore gaming he represents, you'll be able to give it to them with each measured stroke of your burning hot blade of light. It'll be like Quake with a permanent quad damage.

    WHOOPS.. "The new Jedi profession will be equal in combat effectiveness with the other professions."[warcry link]

    Nevermind.

    Seriously though

    • I knew this was going to be a problem when they announced the setting of the game.

      1) Everyone wants to be a Jedi/Sith. However, it is set in a time period where Jedi are supposed to be REALLY rare. Therefore, everyone bitches because they can't all be Jedi/Sith.

      2) Jedi/Sith are expected to be REALLY powerful, and much more powerful than just about anyone else. As we all know, having one class being significantly stronger than all others SUCKS. Therefore, Everyone who isn't Jedi bitches because t
  • Fool me once (game launch), shame on you Raph ...
    Fool me twice (combat expansion), shame on me ...
    A third chance there will not be.
  • > Can anyone become a Jedi?
    >
    > Yes, anyone can follow the path of the Jedi but
    > like all professions mastery will require time and
    > experience. The new Jedi profession will be equal
    > in combat effectiveness with the other professions.
    > It will still however deliver on the promise of the
    > Star Wars Jedi mystique and will allow players to "live"
    > as Jedi in the world of Star Wars Galaxies.

    They may be adding the "Wars" back to "Star Wars", but they are, evidently, also removing the "S
  • ....everyone was just paying to get into SOE's extended Star Wars Galaxies Beta.

    Jokes on us, I guess.

  • About time (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I played SWG for a l-o-n-g time. My main beef was combat was just too boring. I gave up. Star Wars fans dont watch the movies for the dancing or the crafting. Episode V is called "Empire Strikes Back" not "Empire grinds out a stimpack".

    I will play again from the sounds of these cahnges.
  • I played SWG for the first two months it was out. Although it was enjoyable, it felt like the grind was insane even when I just started out. I picked up world of warcraft recently, even though I've never played a warcraft game before and knew nothing about the story line. The gameplay was so good, that I've been playing it since January. The best part is, the first 20 or so levels a character makes are very easy.

    Are there any plans to make SWG easier when you are just starting out? Or to make it les
  • Just rename your super-powerful character with '$sys$' at the start of his/her/its name!
  • Game didn't look finished or balanced when they gave about 2 days notice that beta was closing and the game had gone gold.

    Sounds like it hasn't changed much in that respect then....
  • The problem with the game has always been lack of vision and lack of content.

    The game was growing and huge with the current "confusing" classless system - several things killed the game. Jedi, lack of content, melee, constant rebalancing and nerfs.

    Everything about jedi was bad, the hologrind that wrecked guilds and destroyed pvp, was frustrating for the winners (permadeath with the current state of networks = rotten idea), frustrating for the losers (want to take a bh mission on a jedi - bring 20 buddie

  • I have a certain amount of respect for the people that have played SWG since launch and I do sympathize with them over the NGE. I'd be pretty ticked too if I spent all that time gathering resources, grinding out professions, collecting trinkets, earning your padawan, leveling him up, etc... to have all that toil basically dashed in a mass simplification upgrade.

    That said, I'm kinda glad to see that SOE is doing this. I played SWG for a few month after it launched and found that it took what felt like a LOT

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