I'm angry for several reasons. But the biggest reason is that I gave the Humble Bundle brand name a lot of free advertising and word of mouth because I expected them to always be DRM-free and cross-platform. Them choosing not to be feels like a betrayal and a cheat because they're taking all that good will I helped them create to sell something that is at cross-purposes to the reason I helped them create this good will.
I'm also angry because I spent a bunch of money, always above the average, often significantly so. I spent it not just because I thought the games were worth it. I spent it because I believed in Humble Bundle and what I thought they were trying to accomplish. It was another way for me to invest in the brand.
If they had done something like this under a different name I wouldn't be angry at all. Create another brand "Pay What You Can" bundles or whatever and market your stuff under that brand if it doesn't fit the Humble Bundle image. Then I wouldn't feel like all the work and money I put into supporting the Humble Bundle brand was a waste.
Well, they weren't games but they were DRM free and available in formats easily dealt with by Open Source software, so it was in keeping with the spirit. I was fine with it.
Seriously, if you don't like it, just don't buy it. Some shops sell items I don't like or don't want and I just skip these and buy what I want when I see it. No need to make a fuss about it!
Sure it's Steam on Windows only. But considering it has the biggest market share, it's quite ok to do so when you want to raise money for a charity. If you're considering buying the bundle and don't want to support THQ or Humble Bundle, just change the split accordingly! It's for a good cause!
Sure it's Steam on Windows only. But considering it has the biggest market share, it's quite ok to do so when you want to raise money for a charity.
Every time I hear someone justify a business decision with "Since the majority of the money is here, it'll be a great idea to just completely ignore all other sources of revenue!" gives me a horrific twitch.
What is it? Are they actually teaching this in business school nowadays?
Considering in only 8.5 hours that it has outsold 14 of the last 19 bundles and still has nearly 13 days to go shows that their decision really isn't hurting them.
So do you lack proper reading comprehension or were you just too lazy to follow the discussion properly? Try reading what I responded to and then you will realize that your comment has absolutely no relevancy to what was said.
So in order to make money for the Child's play charity or Red cross, they have to port to games to as many platform as possible and spend lots of money. Just to be sure everybody has access to it, I suggest they consider a port to Linux, OSX, Xbox, PS3, Amiga, BSD, Snes, Atari, Gameboy, Hurd and various models of coffee machines with integrated LED display.
If you want to raise money and you can do it efficiently as the games have already been made, there's no shame about it.
I see two things happen regularly: 1. Totally ignoring the minority because they seem to be a pain to deal with. i.e. Why support 2% of users who run Linux? Why support the 10% who use Mac? Why support the few people who might want to use an English computer to read Chinese web sites? Why sell English (only) movies to people in Japan? Why sell these fancy PDAs to cheap-skate Americans?, etc., etc. Even if there would be a profit, it's less of a profit than we will get from another item, so
No, but what they do teach in business school is don't spend $10 to go after a dime.
Cross platform development is nice, but unless the payoff from the costs associated with such development and the support hassles it creates is substantial, it's ultimately not worth the effort.
In business this means that if Windows games always earn 10x as much as Linux games, it is foolish to assign developers to make a Linux port of a Windows game when you could have them making another Windows game because you have to account for the opportunity cost of not making the extra Windows game which will dwarf your expected benefit from making a Linux game.
That is only true when return on investment is linear, which in any established economy/market it is not. As you pour more resources into a proje
Seriously, if you don't like it, just don't buy it.
What makes you think he's going to buy it? Oh, how embarassing! For a moment I forgot it's a crime to express yourself in online discussions. We serfs must either speak well of a product or not speak at all, lest our the worst happen. Our benevolent corporate masters might even lose potential profit - the most important profit of all - if we aren't more careful with our sinful tongues.
That's a lot coming from someone whose argument is:
WHiiinnneeee.....OMG! NO LINNNNUX 4 CHARITY!!!! THEY DID THE LINUX LAST TIMEEEEEE!!!!!
Seriously, no one wants to hear that, you're not 4.
When called out on it, it turns into some sarcastic rant "OMG!! YOU WONT LET ME TAAALLKKK"
No one really wants to hear that either. Your point of view comes across like a whining toddler that is upset because the candy she has isn't her favorite flavor.
So stop acting like Humble Bundle just started WW3 and pay attention. H
Sure it's Steam on Windows only. But considering it has the biggest market share, it's quite ok to do so when you want to raise money for a charity. If you're considering buying the bundle and don't want to support THQ or Humble Bundle, just change the split accordingly! It's for a good cause!
All this while Steam is going to Linux... The irony... (And the lack of my support as I only pay for native Linux games)
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Thursday November 29, 2012 @10:13PM (#42137771)
"Pay what you want, DRM-free, cross-platform and helps charity." That's been a tagline of all the bundles so far, IIRC. It's not just some implicit assumption on his part. You'll note how they had to contort it for the THQ bundle.
It's no surprise that people are angry when the Humble Bundle guys diverge this much from the image they have built up for their product. This is brand dilution; people came in expecting the usual and were disappointed.
"Pay what you want, DRM-free, cross-platform and helps charity."
That's been a tagline of all the bundles so far, IIRC. It's not just some implicit assumption on his part. You'll note how they had to contort it for the THQ bundle.
There have been four android-only bundles. That's not any more cross-platform than PC only.
As far as DRM-free, these aren't indie games. Were they indie games, I feel like this would indeed be a step backward. But this is a big chunk of a big company's catalog. Granted, they're desperate, but naming your price on 5 games all from a publisher, and the DRM is only steam? That feels like progress.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Friday November 30, 2012 @01:21AM (#42138867)
There have been four android-only bundles. That's not any more cross-platform than PC only.
You are very mistaken. The games in the Android bundles were available for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, and Android.
This bundle is useless for a large portion of regular Humble Bundle buyers. Apparently they're raking in cash, good for them. Maybe this is a good direction for them, but they're risking the loyality of their Mac and Linux supporters.
Yeah, dropping the no-DRM option and the EFF aren't great but I'm looking at the whole picture and I see no reason not to give them money.
THQ is one of the nicer publishers and not seeing them go under is a good thing. I can even see this being positive for the entire games market (from a gamer's perspective); more competition means more innovation.
As for the DRM... Well, it's Steam. It's already the "I could get this without DRM but Steam is more comfortable and hassle-free enough for me not to care" D
In the humble bundle for android, a significant number of games were also released for the windows, os X and linux. I bought two of teh 4 bundles and more than half the games have been released on PC.
Okay, I know nothing of these people, but did they ever promise to always be free and cross-platform?
Pretty much, yeah. From the Humble Bundle's blog:
Welcome to the blog of the Humble Bundle. We sell bundles of cross-platform, DRM-free video games by independent developers. You get to set your own price while supporting the Electronic Frontier...
Cross platform, DRM free, indie, and "pay what you want" are the four things that the Humble Bundle has built their brand on. Ars has a pretty good write up on the problems here:
To be fair, that doesn't say "we sell nothing but bundles of cross-platform, DRM-free video games...". McDonalds sells Big Macs. They also sell orange juice. Heck, they'll sell you a cup of water for the price of a cup though you won't find it on the menu.
Yes, but MacDonalds don't advertise themselves and define their brand as "we sell Big Macs", and That's The Difference Here. As someone else said, it's "brand dilution". A wholefoods store that started selling Mars bars and Coke would suffer a similar backlash, and you could claim "they didn't say they would sell nothing but wholefoods", but that would miss the point of the brand image.
The Humble Bundle changed, or sold out if you like, long ago. This isn't a real surprise. The Humble Bundle is run by Wolfire Games. Their previous, and pretty much only, product being Lugaru, a game with bad graphics where you play a ninja rabbit (yes, really). They've announced a couple other games, for example Overgrowth, but nothing has been released. Overgrowth was announced in 2008 and is still in alpha.
It should be no surprise they haven't had a ton of commercial success.
Publishers generally make far more money than developers and I don't begrudge Wolfire one bit for making money. I don't think that making money from the Humble Bundle means that they've sold out either - they took a stab at doing something new, and something that originally had some principles, and they struck it big in the process. Good for them.
Selling out is when you give up the principles for the sake of money. That's new for Wolfire.
Now, to be fair, I don't know how Wolfire actually feels about DRM
They are a distributor. Publishers put up the money for a game to be made, and handle marketing and all that. Wolfire is just a distributor.
I'm not hating on them for making money, just pointing out what is going on. If someone like Valve was doing this, well then sure people might be surprised. After all they've all the money in the world so if they started a special indy, DRM free, thing it would be because they believed in the cause.
However Wolfire has had little commercial success. They haven't released
It was a manifesto, it was by this principle that they've built the name they are trying their best to destroy now. Lets see how it works out for them at long term.
For an alternative viewpoint, Hey! A bundle with more games I want to play than usual. Delivered on a platform I like with DRM I've decided I can live with. Bought this bundle...haven't bought them all.
I was just thinking the opposite. Other HBs have made me excited by the weird and wonderful indie titles on offer, giddy at the thought of what unusual gaming treats await me (note: the reality does not always live up to the anticipation, but that's just life all over really). This HB is a big old "so what"- five first person shooters and two third person actioners. I mean I'm sure they're good games and everything, but it hardly sets the soul on fire does it?
I was just thinking the opposite. Other HBs have made me excited by the weird and wonderful indie titles on offer, giddy at the thought of what unusual gaming treats await me (note: the reality does not always live up to the anticipation, but that's just life all over really). This HB is a big old "so what"- five first person shooters and two third person actioners. I mean I'm sure they're good games and everything, but it hardly sets the soul on fire does it?
I just enjoy good games, and I don't give a shit where they come from. Are you one of those people who hates mustard unless it's made by a small co-op?
As for the trite "five of this, two of that", how many previous indie bundles were five platformers and two adventure games?
I'm just excited more people will know about the Humble Bundle and potentially create a larger market for indie games with future bundles.
Don't get me wrong, I play AAA games, and I play FPS games and 3rd Person Action games. I don't mind buying from big developers (with a few morale exceptions), and I certainly have no objection to THQ.
But Humble Bundles usually offer a selection of something different from what I see in the Amazon "best sellers" table. Usually the indy games have something interesting or different about them which makes me really want to dive in. This THQ bundle is just 7 games of the same sort that I've already got a whole
I'm in the same boat. This is BS I spent a lot of money supporting them and time toting HB and the DRM-free Linux compatible games and now they're going to pull this. They won't be getting any more money out of me and can kiss my usual $50 donation goodbye. As well, I'm planing to actively protest them now by making sure to post everywhere I can what a bunch of sell outs they are.
There are many other ways to raise a donation for a charity. There's no need to appropriate an existing brand that was specifically associated with being DRM-free and cross-platform, and then throw those crucial parts of its identity out of the window.
The support of Free, non-DRM software and indie developers is the charity, chief. The other guys are just icing on the cake. Not only have they dropped the indies and dropped the no-drm requirements, but they've they've dropped support of the EFF too!
If a new group had come along with a "support struggling AAA studios" charity then we might laugh, but they wouldn't be denounced for compromising their ideals.
No, the charity was that Humble Bundle was set up to support Child's Play. The non-DRM, multi-platform stuff was the side effect not the primary motivation.
The HIB grand experiment was in proving there was a demand for fair content. Child's Play are simply beneficiaries.
Certainly CP have enough avenues for donation already, it's not like people who want to donate are forced to do so through HIB. One has to assume that the reason HIB was successful was because of the business model, not the charities selected.
HB V had 599,004 purchases totalling $5,108,725.09, Linux and Mac made up well over a third of the HB V sales, with linux users at $8.53, Mac at $6.67 and windows users coming in last at just $4.70 . Maybe my $50 doesn't make much of a difference, but the other Linux and Mac users, with a similar mind set to me, will.
I don't know where you got your numbers, but from the humble bundle V (just now): Avg $8.53, Windows $7.98, Mac $9.99, Linux $12.49. Are you reporting something other than US dollars? Your total and number of purchases both match what the site tells me, so I suspect not. I'm really not sure where you got your number. Also, while those windows users contributed less per person, the total they contributed makes up around 70% of that $5 million. Remember, the 300 spartans may have stood up to Xerces in an
You're right, I quoted the totals from the Humble V Bundle, but the numbers from the Humble Voxatron Bundle. They both showed up as "Humble V" tabs in my browser, however the point still stands.
Your anger is somewhat justifiable. This sets a precedent. Now, other game publishers, who may want to use Humble Bundle, will not feel the need to put in an effort to make their games cross-platform.
Having said that, I'm grateful to Humble Bundle for pushing their cross-platform philosophy as much as they did. It's efforts like that which provide the initial step in generating a flood of games supporting Linux. I'll keep on supporting them, in future bundles, when they once more release cross platform
I'm angry for several reasons. But the biggest reason is that I gave the Humble Bundle brand name a lot of free advertising and word of mouth because I expected them to always be DRM-free and cross-platform.
You should get a job in marketing, you're obviously very influential. I mentioned you when I got my usual $1.50 cup of coffee and they only charged me $1.50.
Them choosing not to be feels like a betrayal and a cheat because they're taking all that good will I helped them create to sell something that is at cross-purposes to the reason I helped them create this good will.
Screw the charities, it's about you, and rightly so.
I'm also angry because I spent a bunch of money, always above the average, often significantly so. I spent it not just because I thought the games were worth it. I spent it because I believed in Humble Bundle and what I thought they were trying to accomplish. It was another way for me to invest in the brand.
It seems they were trying to distribute games without a set price or publisher and support charities at the same time.
If they had done something like this under a different name I wouldn't be angry at all. Create another brand "Pay What You Can" bundles or whatever and market your stuff under that brand if it doesn't fit the Humble Bundle image.
While I do understand how you feel, I would suggest that this is a success in many ways.
%r%r
Why did the humble bundle start out? Part of it was the goal of showing major game companies that there was a better way. Pay what you can, support charity, no DRM.
%r%r
While they obviously haven't gotten all the way there, the fact that a major studio's business model is to give away their games for free except what we want is a huge victory for the good guys. I don't like humble bundle going this way, but in th
Well said. That's how I feel, too. The only inexcusable action, here, IMHO, was removing the EFF as a charity option. If I'm supporting DRM, even if it's a light version, I want the EFF to take part of my money and fight for my right to circumvent it as I see fit.
So donate $1 here to get the bundle, and then donate the rest of what you had planned to donate over on the EFF's site. I don't understand the problem.
I feel ya brother. I've bought all the Humble Bundles so far, always paying above the average, but my support of this enterprise has dried up. Heck, I never played the games anyway -- just wanted to show support and get more Linux games out there.
You did the right thing, the initial plan was awesome, and Humble Bundle was kick-ass until today. We can't begrudge those devs we supported in the pre-sellout days. And, they did a few good bucks for charity. Those memories of good times remain.
I agree. I don't begrudge those developers a single penny, and I greatly appreciate what was made. I'm a little annoyed with the Humble tips I gave in support of more of the same, but only a little.
I gave the Humble Bundle brand name a lot of free advertising and word of mouth because I expected them to always be DRM-free and cross-platform....I helped them create this good will.
Are you suggesting that your celebrity endorsement of them counts as "a lot of free advertising" and "helping them create this good will?" I think you overestimate your celebrity status. You have 525 people following you on google plus. Not that you would have a right to feel betrayed even if you had 11k people following you, but... well... check your ego. They don't owe you for saying nice things about them to a handful of people.
OP may have an ego problem, but don't estimate the marketing power of word of mouth.
Whilst the median FB/G+ user might only have 100 friends, an earnest recommendation from someone you know is much, much more likely to result in further action than promotion by an internet celebrity with a million followers.
However, please bear in mind that supporting or promoting any brand is usually a bad idea. They might be great, ethical people with a good mission and awesome products, but you never know when they are g
Why is it wrong and "huge ego" to feel upset if something that may have been a lot of hard work for you seems trashed? Why do you have to be a "celebrity"?
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Friday November 30, 2012 @02:57AM (#42139161)
They owe me something, and they owe the thousands of other people who did the same as I did something.
Dude, seriously, fuck you and the (not-so-humble) horse you rode in on.
Maybe it isn't so, but you come off as one of those people who joins organisations for your own glory. The current bundle is proving you wrong by being the most successful Humble Bundle ever.
Not everyone ascribes to your strict (semi-religious?) ideals. Get over it.
Really, nothing? So, if you had someone tell you that they were going to travel the road and fix everybody's flat tires for free and you went and told all of your friends and gave them some money because you thought that was really awesome. And then it turns out they drive up and tell people they'll fix their flat for $50. Wouldn't you feel like maybe they lied to you and feel kind of icky about the fact that you recommended them to people and gave them money?
They have consistently advertised four things until now:
Pay what you want
Cross-platform
Free of DRM
Supports charity
The two most important to me were 'cross-platform' and 'free of DRM'. I thought the other two parts were neat, but didn't really care about them. I talked them up to people and mentioned them a bunch to others because of those two things. And now they drop them for this bundle. It's very annoying.
As an aside, I've also noticed that frequent use of profanity, name calling and lack of ability to
Does all your moral outrage help you sleep at night? Cause I can think of at least a handful of problems in the world far more severe and worth getting worked up about than the "injustice" served to you by a privately-owned corporation violating some imagined sense of principle you seem to possess by partnering with a publicly-owned corporation to offer you a bunch of existing games that were only ever developed for one platform, all to help out charities. I mean, those bastards, they might PROFIT from th
If Apple started selling re-packaged cheap plastic laptops that fell apart when you opened them, yes, I'd be pretty upset. I already avoid Starbucks, but if Starbucks decided to use Folger's drip coffee and just boil it down a bit for espresso (and I actually liked Starbucks) I'd be pretty upset over that too. If the local coffee shop I tell everybody has spectacular coffee did that, I would also be upset.
I'm certain that Humble Bundle profited just fine from their previous bundles, and I'm quite pleased wi
Well, for what it's worth, I think I get why you see this as a tarnish of their reputation. The part I don't get that blows me away is why you're taking it so personally though. I mean, this isn't even the first time that they've offered a platform specific bundle. They've had several Android bundles before after all. And for most intents and purposes, they are doing this under a different name. Well, kinda. I mean, it's still the same "humble" (pay what you will) format as all of the bundles, and the
They've had several Android bundles before after all.
Well, Android is an open platform. I could potentially install my own version of Android on a device and play those games without having to give money to anybody. Heck, I could compile it all from source if I wanted. The thing I care most about is not exactly that it be cross-platform, but that one of the supported platforms be a completely open non-proprietary one. This has always been the case until now.
I'm taking it personally because a big part of the reason they've gotten so much press from so many peo
Why are only the biggest problems in the world worth attention? Somebody getting mugged on the street is a darn SMALL problem, and there are a ton of things FAR more severe, but if I just casually strolled by and did nothing at all about it, what would I be? Not sure if that is analogous to this or not but the point is that the "size" of the problem doesn't necessarily matter.
And furthermore, isn't this another victory for DRM and another loss for "freedom" -- isn't that freedom something _you_ support, c
I guess you do have a point, in as so far as saying that being outraged here doesn't mean you can't be outraged about other things. This just felt petty with the implication of a sense of being genuinely personally slighted.
With respect to my sig, I always prefer the DRM free option. At the same time, I just don't feel like I can respect a hard philosophy of "DRM or go home" either. A situation where a vendor cannot choose to implement DRM (should they genuinely want to cut their hand off) isn't reall
It's on the same website and advertised through the same channels as the thing I was promoting. If it were a different website and they'd advertised using different accounts I'd be fine with it. Even if they had used the one account to point out the announcement by this other, separate effort and explained how it would be different, I'd also be fine with it.
They, after all, named something the 'Humble Introversion Bundle' previously and had the exact some terms as all their other bundles.
really? the brand took a hit for me when they started repeating previous games in the recent bundles. i'm actually glad that they've admitted that they've now exhausted the pool of indie non-drm games. what else could they do?
to me, at least, the drm was a very minor detail of the humble bundle. cross-platform; price; charity; and indie were all much more important to me. i don't even have the choice of using this one (no windows), but i don't begrudge them for it; i didn't buy the "three games we've offere
I had that experience once with an unfree p2p app. I poured hours, days and months into it to see my work wasted and misused in the end.
That’s why I decided to only ever support free copyleft programs in which others but the main authors have some code. Then they can’t easily make it unfree - and thus steal my unpaid work.
That’s why I stopped supporting the humble indie bundle when the second bundle did not free the games.
*nod* I don't typically demand that my games be free software. But I can definitely understand your point of view, and I'm a bit conflicted about mine.:-)
But...but...he's THE Eric Hopper. How dare you not see how important he is. He practically single-handedly made the Humble Bundle what it is today. Not the founders, or the companies involved, or the people hired to port games, or the 100s of thousands of other donators. Nope, the Humble Bundle is what it is only because of Eric Hopper.
No, you made some posts that a couple of dozen people probably ever saw. On the other hand, you are acting as if you were the major driving force of popularizing the bundle when probably a 1000th of one percent or less of all donators ever heard of you.
They helped build that brand with my help. I provided them tons of free advertising and word of mouth because of the principles I thought they upheld. They're making a mockery of my effort.
Get over yourself. You're a nobody that had negligible effect on their success.
Yes. I made a post a couple of dozen people saw. I talked personally to 5 or 10 people.
And there are thousands of people like me. We each made our little contributions. Each of us helped make the Humble Bundle brand what it was. It wasn't just me, but I helped. And so did they. Many of us our upset.
Thousands of negligible effects add up to a real effect. I think my anger is justified. So is theirs.
Each of us helped make the Humble Bundle brand what it was. It wasn't just me, but I helped. And so did they. Many of us our upset.
All of you seem to be part of an extremely small minority since this outsold 14 of 19 of the past bundles in less than 8 hours. At it's current pace it'll be the second highest bundle by tomorrow.
It doesn't matter how much this bundle sells. Loyal customers are hard to get and easy to lose. They won't get another desperate big label so soon. Lets see how well they do in the next bundles.
I wouldn't. There is market for them. That much is proved. They just need to agglutinate around someone else who still can serve as a symbol of what they fight for.
Actually, no. The first purpose of a business is to serve their customers. If they do that well and are careful about expenses, they will make money. Businesses who's first purpose is making money are invariably businesses I despise and avoid if I possibly can.
It's pretty trivial to come up with ways to make money that make a lot of people really unhappy and angry. Those aren't the kinds of businesses I want to see in the world.
I want to see businesses that are creating happy customers and making money doin
The aim is not to make money for charities, otherwise ALL the money or at least most of it would go to charities by default. The aim is to give a chance to developers that do not have proper means of distribution while allowing customers to get DRM free content. Charity is just something they thought about to help with the publicity.
I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm +Eric Hopper [google.com] over on Google+.
I'm angry for several reasons. But the biggest reason is that I gave the Humble Bundle brand name a lot of free advertising and word of mouth because I expected them to always be DRM-free and cross-platform. Them choosing not to be feels like a betrayal and a cheat because they're taking all that good will I helped them create to sell something that is at cross-purposes to the reason I helped them create this good will.
I'm also angry because I spent a bunch of money, always above the average, often significantly so. I spent it not just because I thought the games were worth it. I spent it because I believed in Humble Bundle and what I thought they were trying to accomplish. It was another way for me to invest in the brand.
If they had done something like this under a different name I wouldn't be angry at all. Create another brand "Pay What You Can" bundles or whatever and market your stuff under that brand if it doesn't fit the Humble Bundle image. Then I wouldn't feel like all the work and money I put into supporting the Humble Bundle brand was a waste.
Re: (Score:1)
How do you feel about the recent sale of books on HiB?
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Seriously, if you don't like it, just don't buy it.
Some shops sell items I don't like or don't want and I just skip these and buy what I want when I see it. No need to make a fuss about it!
Sure it's Steam on Windows only. But considering it has the biggest market share, it's quite ok to do so when you want to raise money for a charity. If you're considering buying the bundle and don't want to support THQ or Humble Bundle, just change the split accordingly! It's for a good cause!
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time I hear someone justify a business decision with "Since the majority of the money is here, it'll be a great idea to just completely ignore all other sources of revenue!" gives me a horrific twitch.
What is it? Are they actually teaching this in business school nowadays?
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering in only 8.5 hours that it has outsold 14 of the last 19 bundles and still has nearly 13 days to go shows that their decision really isn't hurting them.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, let's all completely ignore that this bundle is dwarfing the previous bundles in the first day in terms of money collected.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, let's all completely ignore that this bundle is dwarfing the previous bundles in the first day in terms of money collected.
Because the only thing that matters in life is money, right?
Re: (Score:1)
So do you lack proper reading comprehension or were you just too lazy to follow the discussion properly? Try reading what I responded to and then you will realize that your comment has absolutely no relevancy to what was said.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because the only thing that matters in life is money, right?
If you are managing a fundraiser for charities like the Red Cross, then yes.
If you are trying to help out an established developer in deep financial trouble or a newcomer who needs leg up, then yes.
Re: (Score:2)
So in order to make money for the Child's play charity or Red cross, they have to port to games to as many platform as possible and spend lots of money. Just to be sure everybody has access to it, I suggest they consider a port to Linux, OSX, Xbox, PS3, Amiga, BSD, Snes, Atari, Gameboy, Hurd and various models of coffee machines with integrated LED display.
If you want to raise money and you can do it efficiently as the games have already been made, there's no shame about it.
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, *this*.
I see two things happen regularly:
1. Totally ignoring the minority because they seem to be a pain to deal with. i.e. Why support 2% of users who run Linux? Why support the 10% who use Mac? Why support the few people who might want to use an English computer to read Chinese web sites? Why sell English (only) movies to people in Japan? Why sell these fancy PDAs to cheap-skate Americans?, etc., etc. Even if there would be a profit, it's less of a profit than we will get from another item, so
Re: (Score:2)
No, but what they do teach in business school is don't spend $10 to go after a dime.
Cross platform development is nice, but unless the payoff from the costs associated with such development and the support hassles it creates is substantial, it's ultimately not worth the effort.
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That is only true when return on investment is linear, which in any established economy/market it is not. As you pour more resources into a proje
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Seriously, if you don't like it, just don't buy it.
What makes you think he's going to buy it? Oh, how embarassing! For a moment I forgot it's a crime to express yourself in online discussions. We serfs must either speak well of a product or not speak at all, lest our the worst happen. Our benevolent corporate masters might even lose potential profit - the most important profit of all - if we aren't more careful with our sinful tongues.
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For a moment I forgot it's a crime to express yourself in online discussions.
Actually, I'm just amazed anyone would care about your opinion on the subject.
(Same way I'm amazed they would care about mine.)
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That's a lot coming from someone whose argument is:
WHiiinnneeee.....OMG! NO LINNNNUX 4 CHARITY!!!! THEY DID THE LINUX LAST TIMEEEEEE!!!!!
Seriously, no one wants to hear that, you're not 4.
When called out on it, it turns into some sarcastic rant "OMG!! YOU WONT LET ME TAAALLKKK"
No one really wants to hear that either. Your point of view comes across like a whining toddler that is upset because the candy she has isn't her favorite flavor.
So stop acting like Humble Bundle just started WW3 and pay attention. H
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Sure it's Steam on Windows only. But considering it has the biggest market share, it's quite ok to do so when you want to raise money for a charity. If you're considering buying the bundle and don't want to support THQ or Humble Bundle, just change the split accordingly! It's for a good cause!
All this while Steam is going to Linux... The irony... (And the lack of my support as I only pay for native Linux games)
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Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Pay what you want, DRM-free, cross-platform and helps charity."
That's been a tagline of all the bundles so far, IIRC. It's not just some implicit assumption on his part. You'll note how they had to contort it for the THQ bundle.
It's no surprise that people are angry when the Humble Bundle guys diverge this much from the image they have built up for their product. This is brand dilution; people came in expecting the usual and were disappointed.
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"Pay what you want, DRM-free, cross-platform and helps charity." That's been a tagline of all the bundles so far, IIRC. It's not just some implicit assumption on his part. You'll note how they had to contort it for the THQ bundle.
There have been four android-only bundles. That's not any more cross-platform than PC only.
As far as DRM-free, these aren't indie games. Were they indie games, I feel like this would indeed be a step backward. But this is a big chunk of a big company's catalog. Granted, they're desperate, but naming your price on 5 games all from a publisher, and the DRM is only steam? That feels like progress.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Informative)
There have been four android-only bundles. That's not any more cross-platform than PC only.
You are very mistaken. The games in the Android bundles were available for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, and Android.
This bundle is useless for a large portion of regular Humble Bundle buyers. Apparently they're raking in cash, good for them. Maybe this is a good direction for them, but they're risking the loyality of their Mac and Linux supporters.
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Seems they have found a lot of new Humble Bundle supporters, and all in one day.
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Seems they have found a lot of new Humble Bundle supporters, and all in one day.
No, they've found people who were looking for cheap games.
It'll take until the next bundle comes out to see how many supporters stick around.
That is, if any sites other than their own actually bother to announce their next bundle.
I'm one of the people who's pretty ambivalent... (Score:2)
THQ is one of the nicer publishers and not seeing them go under is a good thing. I can even see this being positive for the entire games market (from a gamer's perspective); more competition means more innovation.
As for the DRM... Well, it's Steam. It's already the "I could get this without DRM but Steam is more comfortable and hassle-free enough for me not to care" D
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In the humble bundle for android, a significant number of games were also released for the windows, os X and linux. I bought two of teh 4 bundles and more than half the games have been released on PC.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Informative)
Okay, I know nothing of these people, but did they ever promise to always be free and cross-platform?
Pretty much, yeah. From the Humble Bundle's blog:
Welcome to the blog of the Humble Bundle. We sell bundles of cross-platform, DRM-free video games by independent developers. You get to set your own price while supporting the Electronic Frontier...
Cross platform, DRM free, indie, and "pay what you want" are the four things that the Humble Bundle has built their brand on. Ars has a pretty good write up on the problems here:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/11/humble-thq-bundle-threatens-to-ruin-the-brands-reputation/ [arstechnica.com]
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Only for those that didn't pay attention (Score:2)
The Humble Bundle changed, or sold out if you like, long ago. This isn't a real surprise. The Humble Bundle is run by Wolfire Games. Their previous, and pretty much only, product being Lugaru, a game with bad graphics where you play a ninja rabbit (yes, really). They've announced a couple other games, for example Overgrowth, but nothing has been released. Overgrowth was announced in 2008 and is still in alpha.
It should be no surprise they haven't had a ton of commercial success.
Well the Humble Bundle was q
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Selling out is when you give up the principles for the sake of money. That's new for Wolfire.
Now, to be fair, I don't know how Wolfire actually feels about DRM
They aren't a publisher (Score:2)
They are a distributor. Publishers put up the money for a game to be made, and handle marketing and all that. Wolfire is just a distributor.
I'm not hating on them for making money, just pointing out what is going on. If someone like Valve was doing this, well then sure people might be surprised. After all they've all the money in the world so if they started a special indy, DRM free, thing it would be because they believed in the cause.
However Wolfire has had little commercial success. They haven't released
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When you think about it, giving someone the source code for syphilis is the cause of the problem.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Interesting)
For an alternative viewpoint, Hey! A bundle with more games I want to play than usual. Delivered on a platform I like with DRM I've decided I can live with. Bought this bundle...haven't bought them all.
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I was just thinking the opposite. Other HBs have made me excited by the weird and wonderful indie titles on offer, giddy at the thought of what unusual gaming treats await me (note: the reality does not always live up to the anticipation, but that's just life all over really). This HB is a big old "so what"- five first person shooters and two third person actioners. I mean I'm sure they're good games and everything, but it hardly sets the soul on fire does it?
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I was just thinking the opposite. Other HBs have made me excited by the weird and wonderful indie titles on offer, giddy at the thought of what unusual gaming treats await me (note: the reality does not always live up to the anticipation, but that's just life all over really). This HB is a big old "so what"- five first person shooters and two third person actioners. I mean I'm sure they're good games and everything, but it hardly sets the soul on fire does it?
I just enjoy good games, and I don't give a shit where they come from. Are you one of those people who hates mustard unless it's made by a small co-op?
As for the trite "five of this, two of that", how many previous indie bundles were five platformers and two adventure games?
I'm just excited more people will know about the Humble Bundle and potentially create a larger market for indie games with future bundles.
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Don't get me wrong, I play AAA games, and I play FPS games and 3rd Person Action games. I don't mind buying from big developers (with a few morale exceptions), and I certainly have no objection to THQ.
But Humble Bundles usually offer a selection of something different from what I see in the Amazon "best sellers" table. Usually the indy games have something interesting or different about them which makes me really want to dive in. This THQ bundle is just 7 games of the same sort that I've already got a whole
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You thought the Humble Bundles were about free software, chief? They are about giving to fucking charity, you ignorant myopic twat.
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So if I do anything immoral but give cut to charity I get a free pass?
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There are many other ways to raise a donation for a charity. There's no need to appropriate an existing brand that was specifically associated with being DRM-free and cross-platform, and then throw those crucial parts of its identity out of the window.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
The support of Free, non-DRM software and indie developers is the charity, chief. The other guys are just icing on the cake. Not only have they dropped the indies and dropped the no-drm requirements, but they've they've dropped support of the EFF too!
If a new group had come along with a "support struggling AAA studios" charity then we might laugh, but they wouldn't be denounced for compromising their ideals.
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No, the charity was that Humble Bundle was set up to support Child's Play. The non-DRM, multi-platform stuff was the side effect not the primary motivation.
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The HIB grand experiment was in proving there was a demand for fair content. Child's Play are simply beneficiaries.
Certainly CP have enough avenues for donation already, it's not like people who want to donate are forced to do so through HIB. One has to assume that the reason HIB was successful was because of the business model, not the charities selected.
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Should the next Humble Bundle come out with indie, DRM-free titles, will you eat crow?
Because, in your words, indies have been dropped and DRM-free have been dropped. As if they will never, ever do that sort of thing again.
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Your anger is somewhat justifiable. This sets a precedent. Now, other game publishers, who may want to use Humble Bundle, will not feel the need to put in an effort to make their games cross-platform.
Having said that, I'm grateful to Humble Bundle for pushing their cross-platform philosophy as much as they did. It's efforts like that which provide the initial step in generating a flood of games supporting Linux. I'll keep on supporting them, in future bundles, when they once more release cross platform
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I'm Eric Hopper over on Google+.
That's nice. The link makes it extra special.
I'm angry for several reasons. But the biggest reason is that I gave the Humble Bundle brand name a lot of free advertising and word of mouth because I expected them to always be DRM-free and cross-platform.
You should get a job in marketing, you're obviously very influential. I mentioned you when I got my usual $1.50 cup of coffee and they only charged me $1.50.
Them choosing not to be feels like a betrayal and a cheat because they're taking all that good will I helped them create to sell something that is at cross-purposes to the reason I helped them create this good will.
Screw the charities, it's about you, and rightly so.
I'm also angry because I spent a bunch of money, always above the average, often significantly so. I spent it not just because I thought the games were worth it. I spent it because I believed in Humble Bundle and what I thought they were trying to accomplish. It was another way for me to invest in the brand.
So, what were they trying to accomplish?
http://web.archive.org/web/20101106094641/http://www.wolfire.com/humble [archive.org]
It seems they were trying to distribute games without a set price or publisher and support charities at the same time.
If they had done something like this under a different name I wouldn't be angry at all. Create another brand "Pay What You Can" bundles or whatever and market your stuff under that brand if it doesn't fit the Humble Bundle image.
Exactly, so no one would eve
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Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well said. That's how I feel, too. The only inexcusable action, here, IMHO, was removing the EFF as a charity option. If I'm supporting DRM, even if it's a light version, I want the EFF to take part of my money and fight for my right to circumvent it as I see fit.
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You are assuming the EFF even wanted to get involved with this bundle why?
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You did the right thing, the initial plan was awesome, and Humble Bundle was kick-ass until today. We can't begrudge those devs we supported in the pre-sellout days. And, they did a few good bucks for charity. Those memories of good times remain.
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I agree. I don't begrudge those developers a single penny, and I greatly appreciate what was made. I'm a little annoyed with the Humble tips I gave in support of more of the same, but only a little.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
I gave the Humble Bundle brand name a lot of free advertising and word of mouth because I expected them to always be DRM-free and cross-platform....I helped them create this good will.
Are you suggesting that your celebrity endorsement of them counts as "a lot of free advertising" and "helping them create this good will?" I think you overestimate your celebrity status. You have 525 people following you on google plus. Not that you would have a right to feel betrayed even if you had 11k people following you, but... well... check your ego. They don't owe you for saying nice things about them to a handful of people.
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OP may have an ego problem, but don't estimate the marketing power of word of mouth.
Whilst the median FB/G+ user might only have 100 friends, an earnest recommendation from someone you know is much, much more likely to result in further action than promotion by an internet celebrity with a million followers.
However, please bear in mind that supporting or promoting any brand is usually a bad idea. They might be great, ethical people with a good mission and awesome products, but you never know when they are g
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Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Insightful)
They owe me something, and they owe the thousands of other people who did the same as I did something.
Dude, seriously, fuck you and the (not-so-humble) horse you rode in on.
Maybe it isn't so, but you come off as one of those people who joins organisations for your own glory. The current bundle is proving you wrong by being the most successful Humble Bundle ever.
Not everyone ascribes to your strict (semi-religious?) ideals. Get over it.
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No they don't you entitled twat.
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Really, nothing? So, if you had someone tell you that they were going to travel the road and fix everybody's flat tires for free and you went and told all of your friends and gave them some money because you thought that was really awesome. And then it turns out they drive up and tell people they'll fix their flat for $50. Wouldn't you feel like maybe they lied to you and feel kind of icky about the fact that you recommended them to people and gave them money?
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Hahahaha what. They advertise a pay what you want on video games. This bundle is a pay what you want on video games. Get the fuck over yourself.
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They have consistently advertised four things until now:
The two most important to me were 'cross-platform' and 'free of DRM'. I thought the other two parts were neat, but didn't really care about them. I talked them up to people and mentioned them a bunch to others because of those two things. And now they drop them for this bundle. It's very annoying.
As an aside, I've also noticed that frequent use of profanity, name calling and lack of ability to
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The other bundles were cross-platform and free of DRM. This one isn't. So hey, they don't advertise as that!
I'm glad you don't care about charity though, sure tells me a lot.
As an aside, eat all the dicks.
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Do you really need goodies like games to donate to charity?
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If Apple started selling re-packaged cheap plastic laptops that fell apart when you opened them, yes, I'd be pretty upset. I already avoid Starbucks, but if Starbucks decided to use Folger's drip coffee and just boil it down a bit for espresso (and I actually liked Starbucks) I'd be pretty upset over that too. If the local coffee shop I tell everybody has spectacular coffee did that, I would also be upset.
I'm certain that Humble Bundle profited just fine from their previous bundles, and I'm quite pleased wi
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They've had several Android bundles before after all.
Well, Android is an open platform. I could potentially install my own version of Android on a device and play those games without having to give money to anybody. Heck, I could compile it all from source if I wanted. The thing I care most about is not exactly that it be cross-platform, but that one of the supported platforms be a completely open non-proprietary one. This has always been the case until now.
I'm taking it personally because a big part of the reason they've gotten so much press from so many peo
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With respect to my sig, I always prefer the DRM free option. At the same time, I just don't feel like I can respect a hard philosophy of "DRM or go home" either. A situation where a vendor cannot choose to implement DRM (should they genuinely want to cut their hand off) isn't reall
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Jesus tittyfucking Christ you're an entitled little baby. Cry a little harder.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:4, Insightful)
If they had done something like this under a different name I wouldn't be angry at all.
You mean something like 'Humle THQ Bundle' instead of 'Humble Indie Bundle'?
Yeah, if only they had done so...
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It's on the same website and advertised through the same channels as the thing I was promoting. If it were a different website and they'd advertised using different accounts I'd be fine with it. Even if they had used the one account to point out the announcement by this other, separate effort and explained how it would be different, I'd also be fine with it.
They, after all, named something the 'Humble Introversion Bundle' previously and had the exact some terms as all their other bundles.
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That's ok dude, I'm a nobody on Google+ too.
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really? the brand took a hit for me when they started repeating previous games in the recent bundles. i'm actually glad that they've admitted that they've now exhausted the pool of indie non-drm games. what else could they do?
to me, at least, the drm was a very minor detail of the humble bundle. cross-platform; price; charity; and indie were all much more important to me. i don't even have the choice of using this one (no windows), but i don't begrudge them for it; i didn't buy the "three games we've offere
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I had that experience once with an unfree p2p app. I poured hours, days and months into it to see my work wasted and misused in the end.
That’s why I decided to only ever support free copyleft programs in which others but the main authors have some code. Then they can’t easily make it unfree - and thus steal my unpaid work.
That’s why I stopped supporting the humble indie bundle when the second bundle did not free the games.
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*nod* I don't typically demand that my games be free software. But I can definitely understand your point of view, and I'm a bit conflicted about mine. :-)
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But...but...he's THE Eric Hopper. How dare you not see how important he is. He practically single-handedly made the Humble Bundle what it is today. Not the founders, or the companies involved, or the people hired to port games, or the 100s of thousands of other donators. Nope, the Humble Bundle is what it is only because of Eric Hopper.
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I and thousands of people like me, yes. We all helped. I didn't do it singlehandedly, no.
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No, you made some posts that a couple of dozen people probably ever saw. On the other hand, you are acting as if you were the major driving force of popularizing the bundle when probably a 1000th of one percent or less of all donators ever heard of you.
They helped build that brand with my help. I provided them tons of free advertising and word of mouth because of the principles I thought they upheld. They're making a mockery of my effort.
Get over yourself. You're a nobody that had negligible effect on their success.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. I made a post a couple of dozen people saw. I talked personally to 5 or 10 people.
And there are thousands of people like me. We each made our little contributions. Each of us helped make the Humble Bundle brand what it was. It wasn't just me, but I helped. And so did they. Many of us our upset.
Thousands of negligible effects add up to a real effect. I think my anger is justified. So is theirs.
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Each of us helped make the Humble Bundle brand what it was. It wasn't just me, but I helped. And so did they. Many of us our upset.
All of you seem to be part of an extremely small minority since this outsold 14 of 19 of the past bundles in less than 8 hours. At it's current pace it'll be the second highest bundle by tomorrow.
Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:I'm one of the people who's pretty angry... (Score:5, Funny)
All of you seem to be part of an extremely small minority since this outsold 14 of 19 of the past bundles in less than 8 hours.
Oh, well why didn't you *say* so before! There was all this argument about principles and screwing over previous supporters and ethics and whatnot.
But they did it for *money* so that's OK!!!
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The point was that the whiners are an irrelevant, minuscule minority whilst the vast majority of supporters don't care.
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Actually, no. The first purpose of a business is to serve their customers. If they do that well and are careful about expenses, they will make money. Businesses who's first purpose is making money are invariably businesses I despise and avoid if I possibly can.
It's pretty trivial to come up with ways to make money that make a lot of people really unhappy and angry. Those aren't the kinds of businesses I want to see in the world.
I want to see businesses that are creating happy customers and making money doin
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