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Games Entertainment

Playstation Emulation On The Dreamcast 96

Posted by CmdrTaco from the now-that's-a-trick dept.
martial writes: "I saw the information on IGN; it seems that the people at Bleem! are going to release a DreamCast version of their software to play PC Playstation Emulator."
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Playstation Emulation on the Dreamcast More

Playstation Emulation on the Dreamcast

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  • this is insanity.... 2 competing systems, but one can play the others games

    when i was a kid... it would of been the most insane thing to have, for example, the SNES play Genesis games.... but now.... that is happening.
    This seems all too strange to me.... am I alone on this thought?

    video games just are not the same

    djsw
  • Well that's just grand ... until of course Sony tries to file as many lawsuits as possible. Not to mention bleem doesn't handle games as well as the playstation (go figure) are they planning on porting a stable version of bleem to the dreamcast? When I say stable I mean standardized and taking advantage of dreamcast only processes.

    What about M.A.M.E. for dreamcast ... now that would be cool. Didn't someone port MAME to a digital camera??

    I just want Linux and Mozilla ported to Dreamcast, then I'll buy one.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Dreamcast does have a Windows-ish API buried deep under the hood. Granted, many game developers ignore it entirely (and that's probably a good thing), but it's there. The bulk of the work for this would just be minor code changes and some optimizations to take Bleem! (a Windows product) and a quick recompile.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • political issues - DVD, anyone? (Score:4)

    by Deadbolt ( 102078 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @06:37PM (#1080004)

    What a lot of people here may not know/realize is that we have a very, very good reason (those of us with DCs, anyway) to come out in strong support of bleemcast. Sony sued bleem!, over and over again, trying to bankrupt them, because they were losing control of their media. So they tried to stop bleem!'s release on the grounds that the programmer had reverse engineered it and in doing so had violated a slew of Sony patents and copyrights.

    Sound familiar to anyone? How about Jon Johansen? The bleem! case is VERY applicable to a lot of us because bleem! WON their case against Sony. That case may come up as a precedent in the inevitable DVD lawsuits. In fact, I'm surprised the EFF lawyers didn't mention it when DeCSS was yanked.

    In any case, even though bleem! is proprietary software (sorry :), we should support it and back it up with money. The company has shown grit and stamina in fighting the good fight. I'm sure many of us would like to emulate (pun intended) their successes against the evil corporations. Put $30 behind bleem! or bleemcast. It contributes to a good company with our interests at heart.

  • The person that invented the "NE1 G0TZ" quote was the same guy that invented the term "Bleemcast": the webmaster of Dave's Classics (now known as The Vintage Gaming Network (www.vintagegaming.com)).

  • As we've seen with with the many lawsuits that have gained Slashdot's attention so far, making any technology that allows you to use (dvd player for linux) or copy (mp3.com, napster) the proprietary material of another company puts you in line for a lawsuit. It doesn't mean that you will lose the lawsuit.

    The entrepreneurs behind this new product need to have their lawyers getting ready now, if they want to win the right to sell this product. It's a shame that selling it successfully is a side issue these days.

  • Saturn (Score:1)

    by Mr804 ( 12397 )
    personaly, I'd rather see dreamcast able to play Saturn games. I got a ton of them for like 5 bucks when the machine went under.

  • So, I know I read somewhere that this wasn't possible with the way Bleem! is currently implemented. As I understood it, Bleem! somehow bypasses the main event loop in Windows and gets into kernel mode/rung whatever, so it doesn't have to 'share' by multitasking; it essentially bypasses the OS. Is this anywhere near correct? I know that this would most likely have to be done in assembly... And I've heard it's simply too hard or not possible with the Dreamcast hardware or OS (the CE compatibility part, anyway). I just don't know enough about this, I guess... Anyone care to comment on the technical possibility of this?

    I hope this turns out to be something, so I can play Tenchu in hi-res glory. Other than that, this doesn't help me too much, being a Dreamcast and a Playstation owner ;)
    ---- Ryan

  • MAME already runs on the Windows CE devices -- it hasn't crashed on me, but the current 0.2 version still needs a lot of work cleaning up the performance and range of supported games. Legalities aside, it seems like someone could use embedded CE that works with the DreamCast to create a loader for MAME along with a ton of ROM files on a CD-ROM. I'm not sure if things are directly portable between the PDA version of CE and the embedded version that works with the DreamCast, but the source is out there, and, well, it would be cool as Hell to be able to run those games on the home entertainment system instead of just the ol' computer. (I don't own a DreamCast, but if anyone did it, it'd definitely make me think hard about getting one.)

    Cheers,
    ZicoKnows@hotmail.com

  • now i can play my metal gear solid [konami.com] on my dreamcast... aahhhh.

  • Well this bleem emulator is going to be pretty sweet for those people who already own dreamcasts. Isnt this the first WinCE based port for the DreamCast? If so, that is a very cool application of the technology. Very sweet if you ask me. The embedded system may be windows based, but the object model porting is a great concept. --jay
  • they *will* have MS's WinCE development libraries on their side

    I doubt it: Dreamcast developers can choose between Windows CE, Sega's own lightweight OS, or they can write their own OS... the OS boots off the CD.

    Windows CE games so far seem to suffer from a fair amount of overhead: since Bleem! will need all the resource it can get, I bet they develop on the Sega OS.
    --
  • From the website: Works with over 300 games (and growing!).

    You can also try Virtual Game Station [virtualgamestation.com] which does about 200 games plus some PAL games (the Mac version does a lot more, but it came out almost a year ago).
  • But there are lot's nlot's of great games for Playstation that probably won't be ported to the dreamcast
    That's reason why people use emulators.
    To be able to play your old favorites without cluttering your desk with 10's of old computers and consoles.
    Let's hope that the C64, Nes, Snes, Amiga, Atari, etc, etc emulators out there get ported too.
    Wouldn't *that* be a treat? Just put in a cd and get access to 600MB's of C64 games!!!>br>
  • Sony FINALLY announced a US release date and price for the Playstation 2 yesterday - I was hoping to see a /. story about it, but none yet. The Playstation 2 will be available on October 26, for $299.
  • But you're forgetting that we haven't heard anything from Sega yet; we don't know if they support Bleem or not, just because Bleem for
    DC exists doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that Sega supports it.

    Yes it does: to release a Dreamcast game commercially, you need to get a license from Sega.
    Bleem! would not have announced this product if they didn't already have a license to sell it.
    --
  • As a Dreamcast owner, I'll tell you why it's important: Playstation has lots of good games, and Dreamcast has relatively few right now. Sure, that will change as Dreamcast grows with age, but I'm still not convinced that the Dreamcast will ever have nearly the number of games the Playstation does because of the hype it future competitors are getting.

    So what if the games aren't the best in graphics and technology. That doesn't make game play any less significant.
  • Sony has tried on several occasions to have both VGS and Bleem pulled from the market because of various supposed violations of their patents/copyrights. They -did- initially get VGS pulled off the market, but it was later turned over, and VGS is back on the shelves (and is now also available for the PC). Sony's actions against Bleem however have so far been in vain. Not that they haven't stopped trying - personally, I think this is a classic case of a big company trying to bury an little upstart competitor in legal fees.

    Bleem and Connectix are both doing their best to stand up to a large corporation, fighting to keep emulation legal. For this reason alone, I am fully supporting them both.

    Phillip Morris, Nike, Microsoft..
    For such crimes against humanity and depraved indifference

  • I tend to agree that the Windows-like API is kind of a bad thing. Every developer I've talked to is scared of the performance hit that would cause on the Dreamcast. I can't help but wonder if Bleem won't be a little slow on the DC.

    It's a real bummer because I remember Sega touting how easy it would be to port games due to the Windows support.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Pool (Score:2)

    by HalB ( 127906 )

    I have a suggestion for the next Slashdot poll:

    How many days until Sony sues over this?

  • can I play my backed up versions of my games or is this worse than an actual mod-chipped playstation.
  • Bleem! has already had its day in court with the PC version, amd since none of Sony's code is used it is perfectly legal. Sony's gonna fume over this, but there really isn't anything they can do about it, or else Bleem! wouldn't already be on the shelves at your local PC Software store.

    And anyway. being a Dreamcast owner, I look forward to this, especially since my PSX died a while ago. Plus....it's just nice to see someone put emulation on the other company's hardware.

    And stuff.
    ---------
  • It seems to be like Sega is asking for trouble? Are they asking for Sonty to not leave them even a small portion of the market when PSX2 comes out? Because sony has the power to blow dreamcast out of the water. You don't piss off someone with a grenade in their hand (or nuke in sony's case). Wonder how long before the Dreamcast emulator for PSX2 =)
  • I would imagine that some people already do this... sort of. Using NES, SEGA, SNES, GameBoy, Sega GameGear, Saturn, PSX, and N64 emulators on a box with TV out, you could rig up quite a little entertainment system. Imagine one of those cheap GameBoy emulators on your bigscreen TV... Now THAT'S technology at its finest. Super Mario Land's theme coming out of your JBLs...
  • The point here is not that Dreamcast owners can play PSX games, nor that PSX2 owners will be able to play PSX games...
    This is the mainstream gaming community EMBRACING EMULATION. (Something which Nintendo [nintendo.com] still claims is illegal!)
    This is another step in the legitimization of emulation, and a chance for us to get un-tied to a particular console.
    It's also the first step towards unifying the disjunct world of console gaming to a standard platform which (face facts people) will resemble the world of PC's. Instead of consoles, servers, PDA's and desktops running widely different operating systems on unreasonably different hardware, we'll see standard-conformant PC's tailored to particular purposes, which allows you, the consumer, to pick and choose exactly what best part of the computing world to take advantage of.

  • WRONG (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sony never sued Bleem. Sony sued Connectix, the makers of the Virtual Game Station, which predates Bleem and is for Mac. All the arguments you gave apply to Connectix, not Bleem.
  • While we're on the subject of Bleem!, I hope they're not trying to port their Windows version to Dreamcast. I observed the wine team trying to get it to work, only to conclude that it used too many dirty Windows hacks to get "the access it needs" to run Bleem! What access that is, I'll never know. It's this same reason that Bleem! doesn't run on Windows 2000 yet.. I'll stop being offtopic now..
  • The Playstation has inferior horsepower. The DC is much faster and has a quicker and more refined graphics engine. PSX games do not compare to DC games when you look at the graphics.

    What did you expect? The PSX came out in what, late 95/early 96? The DC benefits from all that 3D acceleration research that's gone on since then.

  • What I want to know is if I can play all my games for PSX that are out-of-country games or copies of beta games on plain disc with that system. If so, I am going Dreamcast. Crazy Taxi RULES! :-)

  • Works a little differently than PC Bleem... (Score:4)

    by ClassicG ( 138845 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @07:25PM (#1080031) Homepage
    One bit of worry earlier about the DC version of Bleem was the fact that you can't patch or upgrade a console program like one for the PC, and that the compatibly from the PC version (good but relatively low) would carry over and that there would be no way to improve it later.

    But with the announcement of the 'bleempack' technology, each of which will be having support for 100 games, a theroy has emerged of how Bleem will get around this problem. Basically, Bleemcast will not be like the PC version - one single emulator, with balanced optimizations made to make as many games as possible run reasonably well. Instead, it is believed that each bleempack will contain one hundred versions of the emulator, each one specially tweaked to run one single game as faithfully as possible.

    To my knowledge, this type of console emulation (multiple versions of the emulator, each tweaked specially for a particular game) has only been done once before - a Gameboy emulator for the Atari ST. I'm looking very forward to seeing how it turns out, and I suspect that this might be what finally gets me to get a DC for myself.

    Phillip Morris, Nike, Microsoft..
    For such crimes against humanity and depraved indifference

  • Ah wonderful. Can Bleem get any more vague on this.

    Bleem for PC is hailed due to its ability to generate higher res graphics and more detail. (Like the flies buzzing in Dino Crisis) I wonder if this could be done on the dreamcast too. Could be a pretty neat reason to buy bleem. To play through your old games again, but with a little more detail then before.

    I wonder how wip3out would look. Or xenogears.
  • Sony starts selling fewer consoles, Johnny Day-trader reads about it in Time, Johnny dumps his Sony stock. I'm just sayin'.

    Johnny Day Trader isn't going to make a large dent in Sony's stock. If he's too dumb to look into how the industry works and doesn't realize that Sony selling less consoles is good for the bottom line, then he's an idiot and Tommy Day Trader will buy his stock and make lots of money.

    On a side note, what about controller compatability? Is Bleem! going to make us use Dreamcast's (in my opinion) ergonomically horrific controlers? Those things make the Genesis controlers look usable.

    As far as controlers go, I think Sony's the only one on the market who's got it right: small and durable with buttons close together. Everytime I play on an N64, I feel like I'm going to break that damn joystick off, and my fingers do more hiking than Argentinian mountain goat herders when I play Dreamcast. Neither of these controlers make much sense to me, and christ, have I tried. I'll wait for PSX2 just for this reason...
  • More like the SNES playing orignal (can't think of the name of the pre-genesis system) sega games.
  • What controllers are you using that rip the skin off of your thumb? The Dreamcast controllers are pretty easy to use. You must be thinking of the Nintendo controllers which were causing problems. You've got to remember, Nintendo even gave out gloves they were so bad!

    -Tim
  • I dunno - I thought that the N64 controllers were awful until I actually used it. Then I discovered that while it's butt ugly and has too many usless buttons (no one uses the cross pad anymore, sniff...) it's comfortable as anything.

    PSX controllers bug me - the cross is interrupted in the middle, I can never tell the difference between the first set of shoulder buttons and the second, and it's just not as comfortable.

    Of course, I like the iMac mouse too, so it just goes to show YMMV.

  • The suits have no idea how to deal with it. Do they

    1. Allow bleem to sell the emulator for the PC and other platforms like this, encouraging people to buy competing platforms and thus negating the 'third party advantage' the PSX has.

    2. or
    3. Do they use Sony's huge store of cash to purchase this little company, put them to work creating emulators for the PSX and Dreamcast on their PS2, discouraging developers from immediately jumping on the PS2 bandwagon and watch their third party developers work on obsolete or competing platforms.

    Either way, they lose something. With the first option, they lose the accrued advantage of years of third party support, and with the second, they discourage exclusivity in third party support. Admittedly, they also win something in both cases (i.e., continued licence income from PSX games or boosting third party support to include all current Dreamcast games) but they have to say to the boss "Getting these apples is worth losing these oranges," or vice versa.

    If it was a case where the managers could definitely say "Iff we succeed, we'll increase revenues," then someone might stick out their neck, but as it is, there are too many tradeoffs. So, the managers waffle when asked their positions about bleem, and eventually decide to try to make the whole problem disappear. Thus, they try to sue the product and company out of existence.

    What the public and Sony really needs is for the suits at Sony to sit down, analyze the situation, and decide on one course or the other. They cannot make the technology disappear, and even if they could, it would be a really bad precedent. The minute technology is forced to disappear because of the decisions of a few powerful people is the day when we can look forward/backward to a time like the Dark Ages, where knowledge was destroyed because it didn't fit with Church/Corporate Dogma. Yes, there come times when we, the public may decide to 'retire' a product (leaded gasoline, CFC's) but the underlying ideas/technolgy are usually replaced, not destroyed.(i.e., other, healthier catalysts and refridgerants)

    In any case, Sony, a technology driven company, should really think carefully before leading any sort of crusade back into the past...

  • hmmm, first off, no windows on dreamcast, more of an altered version of the new WinCE called pocketPC, Which has no similar code to the windows9x or win2k line of products.

    Second, a PC emulates a playstations custom chips on one or two standard chips.

    The pentium is made to do many things well, not one thing really well. a dreamcast has plenty of custom chips that can emulate the playstations custom chips quite well or even better than the original PSX. Windows emulates PSX sound through a pentium, also emulates the core OS on a pentium. The only thing the pentium can be free from is 3dfx or 3d accelerator card emulating the PSX graphics chip.
    The dreamcasts GPU can more than adiquitly emulate the slow ass PSX chip, the CPU can handle emulating the PSX 33mhz chip, and the onboard sound will more than easily run PSX crappy 16bit sound. Bleem! is a completely software emulation on a single CPU system. It would not so much be software "emulation" as a playstation software "layer" to translate between the chips, not emulate the chips. similar to WINE, Wine is Not an emulator. just a software layer between Unices and Windows programs.

    Also, i have seen words of a "Dreamux." yes, linux on a dreamcast as well as some other OSs that will port over easily like the embeded BeAI(mini-beos)
  • Huge court battle. Atari sued Coleco over their add-on 2600 expansion module for the CV that let you play 2600 games. Atari lost their suit. Thus precedent in the US is set. Sony shouldn't even bother suing over Bleem distro in the US since they'll obviously lose.
  • wasn't this submitted weeks ago?
    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    v.3.12
    GCS d-(--) s+: a-- C+++$>++++$$ UL++$>++++$$ P+>++++$ L++>++++$ E--- W++$>++
  • Anyone remember the Playstation launch? Sony found out about a golf promo thrown by Sega executives (during the Saturn days), and sent an actor dressed in Crash Bandicoot costume to grandstand in front of the media, embarrassing the Sega execs.

    Maybe Sega should return the favor by sending a giant blue hedgehog to the PS2 launch, passing out copies of Bleemcast... : D

  • Emulation, oh boy oh boy (Score:4)

    by Brento ( 26177 ) <brento.brentozar@com> on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @05:12PM (#1080042) Homepage
    Somehow this harks back to OS2. The minor player in the market brings out "emulation" of the leader's last-generation platform. Sure, it works, but at that point, who really cares? People who buy Dreamcasts aren't going to get excited about the ability to play Playstation games when the Playstation 2 is already out.

    (I know Bleem has nothing to do with Sega, so the IBM analogy doesn't really hold.)

    I hear the comment already - you're saying, "But then I can upgrade and still keep all my Playstation games." What's the point, speedy - if you already have a Playstation, then you don't need the emulator. Why pay extra to play something you've already got?
  • This reminds me so much of something that was available for the Colecovision (the console and not the Adam) many years ago. Coleco's unit had an expansion port on the front, and they came out with a device that would play Atari 2600 games on the system. As I recall (I was probably 6 or 7 years old at the time) there was a lawsuit but ultimately the device was allowed to be sold (I know since I bought one). I wonder if the same result will occur here. Bleem so far has been successful in fighting off Sony in the courts for the PC version. Apparently the business model for the Bleemcast product is a bit different. Customers will purchase an access key disc which would then allow games associated with that disc to be played. So they'll be making revenue by providing access to specific psx games. That could be trouble, especially from the publishers who may demand a royalty. So we'll have to see. Frankly Bleem on the PC was crap.. I haven't tried any recent builds, but none of my favorites would run on it.
  • How does this work? Doesn't dreamcast only read GD-Roms? Am I missing something?

  • Heck ya (Score:3)

    by SirPhreak ( 122663 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @05:14PM (#1080045)
    I was on the phone with a bleem rep today (I work at dreamcast.net) and he told me the actual product will be released within a couple weeks and everything will debut at E3, so check out dreamcast.net for the latest on this.... This should be very sweet, playing games like GT2 and the final fantasy games with some graphical enhancements on the dreamcast. Im sure going to enjoy it
  • The mind boggles at the magnitude of the lawsuits that are going to stem from this... =P

    It was truly only a matter of time before somebody tried to do this. There have been a couple console emulator packs released for other consoles, but I was under the impression that this would be difficult, at best.

    Does anybody know if Bleem! has started to reverse engineer the Playstation2, hopefully for Bleem2!? Because I'm holding out... is this even feasible given today's PC hardware? Hmm...

  • ... Yes, but can it play Pac-Man?
  • ...this thing has better emulation than the backwards-compatability of the PS2? I've worked on a PSX game (not as a coder tho), and the developers avoided Sony's buggy libs whenever possible. Might put in dent in the PS2 juggernaught-to-be and keep Sega kicking for a little while longer.

    /me looks dejectedly at old Sega Saturn
    --
  • Wow.

    www.emucamp.com [emucamp.com]

  • Is when will I have PS2 emulation on my PalmIII?
  • It means that I won't have to buy a playstation, yet I can play twisted metal to my hearts content. There are good games for the playstation that I currently cannot play. Anything to save me money and to reduce the things I have to connect to my TV. Which currently number 3. It would be less money that I would have to spend. Besides, the playstation will be phased out once the playstation2 comes out. (Which will be able to play playstation games. I think that it is basicly the same emulation process as the Dreamcast will/would use. Although the implementation will be vastly different.) For the record I do not own a playstation, but I do own a DC so this does save me money. If you owned a playstation then, I agree it would be silly to buy. But don't just write it off as silly because you already own a the playstation.
  • I own the PC version, and let me tell you I'm not impressed. Sure some games look pretty nice with the D3D enhancements, but too many of my playstation games don't work properly. One annoying problem is the non working transparency. This makes playing certain games very difficult. (ie in I.Q. the qubes don't reflect off the floor so it is hard to tell their positions, also the markers don't show up well either).

    Hopefully since they are writing it for one specific platform it will work better.
  • Does anybody know if Bleem! has started to reverse engineer the Playstation2, hopefully for Bleem2!?

    The DVD player in the PSX2 (earlier versions anyway) paid no attention to the region codes and thus could play DVDs from anywhere on the planet. Will this feature be ported too?


    =================================
  • The Dreamcast can read GD-Roms but it can also read regular CDs. (In fact a few early DC games were actually CDs and not GDs). And since PSX disks are still normal CD's the Dreamcast will have no problem reading them at all. D
  • I sure don't understand why Sony would fume over this. They lose money for every system they sell, and make it up in licensisng fees from game manufacturers. Since I'm assuming it'd be more difficult to crack (or mod) the Dreamcast bleem, users would have to have actually buy the Playstation games. Sony may sell less Playstations, but this can only help their profits.
  • Why are they making a version of Bleem for the DreamCast, and why would anybody want it? I don't care how much a Playstation costs. If there is a Playstation game that isn't already available for the PC that I want to play, I will just go out and buy a Playstation. Or I will just use a friend's.
    BTW, most Playstation games suck. Those that don't include FF7 and FF8, Cool Boarders, Spyro, and Spyro 2. Also, same pretty much the same for the DreamCast and the Nintendo 64. Whatever happened to the good old days when it was story that counted, not graphics? (Sheds tears for a time long past)


    When the pack animals stampede, it's time to soak the ground with blood to save the world. We fight, we die, we break our cursed bonds.
  • Interesting things to consider... If the DC consumer has Bleem! then that takes away from sales of actual DC games, but if the resolution is doubled and the framerate also increases then hardcore Playstation gamers will have incentive to buy a Dreamcast (which with the Bleem software and Dreamcast hardware is essentially a Super-Playstation). With new customers buying Dreamcasts, there's more incentive for them to buy actual Dreamcast games. On the other hand, it's a well known fact that Sega doesn't really make any money off of the hardware, it's all about licensing the games. I wonder how Sega will react? We all know Sony's probably already thrilled ;)
  • how are they going to do this; does anyone know? will the dreamcast be capable of booting off the bleem cd and then permitting you to insert another cd? or is there some kind of solid-state plug that they can use?

    also, aren't playstation cd's crippled somehow (with bad sectors?) how would the dreamcast read these things if it's not expecting it?

    hey.. that brings up a good point. i wonder if bleem checks for the bad sectors like a playstation does. if not, buy a dreamcast with bleem, and then you can play duplicated playstation games without having to do anything nasty to the interior of a playstation..

    - pal
  • Yeah, but how do I load this emulator? Is it a physical console add-on like a memory card or is it software you load?
  • It was a rumor then, though. This is confirmation.

    Rumors abound that Bleem! will announce its plan to release a Bleem! PlayStation emulator for the Dreamcast at May's E3 videogame convention. The mind simply boggles at the possibility of Sega's Dreamcast system being flexible enough to tap into the vast libraries of the Sega Megadrive, the NEC PC-Engine and the Sony PlayStation.
  • Last time I checked, Sony was persuing a seperate case against Bleem, this time for patent infringement instead of copyright infringement. (shrug)
  • God, if only I'd have seen this yesterday when I was moderating... I'd have blown all 5 points on making this "Score: 5, Funny"...

    What a piece of work... kinda trollish, but very funny if you actually read it. In a sick way.

    --
    "Give him head?" ... "Be a beacon?"

    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft Ad
  • Well. While emulation is a great thing to have (The Genesis had a complete Master System built in to play the old games), I don't think that one standard is the best to have.
    I can remember a console or rather a standard for a console named 3DO. It never really caught on.

    I think, this is mainly because a console cannot be upgraded easily. A console is delivered and used "as is". Standardizing this would mean that you cannot use newer technologies.
    In the PC-World, you can just upgrade. If your GFX-Card is too slow, replace it with a faster one. The processor is at it's limit, then get a new one.

    That's why emulation is good. You buy a new console and with an emulator you still can play the old games.
    As is with bleem! you maybe benefit too from improved graphics. At least, the pc-version supports 3D-Accellerators. Tekken 3 just looks great on it.

  • It is my understanding that the Dreamcast does not contain a traditional OS in a ROM, but rather, loads the OS and drivers at boot time. you can check it out at this old page I found The point is, any OS can be used for development, a game can ship with the latest drivers, etc. [canadawired.com]
  • damn, meant to hit preview 'stead of submit. be merciful. -=b
  • Some from that page you linked to:

    --
    Does Nintendo Think Emulation Companies Promote Piracy? Why?

    Yes. The only purpose of video game emulators are to play illegal copied games from the Internet.
    --

    Ho hum.
  • The Atari 2600 was #1 until NES came along. Along with an emulator for their Atari 5200, they made the 7800 compatible with 2600. Amid all this inbreeding, Colecovision decided that to get the millions of 2600 owners to jump to their superior system, an emulator that played the 100's of inferior but popular games from Atari was needed. WHEW! Take a breath. Lawsuits followed but the idea had been cast. Bleem! is only the latest to utilize this technology loophole to our mutual advantage. I own DC & PSX and look forward to the new systems[PS2,Xbox,Dolphin]. A product like Bleem! will keep me playing my older games that much longer.
  • I.e. badly.

    I don't understand why these emulators appear. They are generally slow, buggy and consume two many resources. They also tend to die out fairly quickly.
  • Sony release the 'DreamCast Emulator for PSX2' and MS will be real, real pissed when the 'X-Box Emulator for PSX2' is released, before the X-Box even ships.

  • No It Doesn't :) (Score:3)

    by Ian Schmidt ( 6899 ) on Thursday May 11, 2000 @07:29PM (#1080070)
    The Dreamcast can run Windows CE, but WinCE is in no way, shape, or form "under the hood". It resides entirely on the game disc and boots from there if the game uses it. Otherwise the Dreamcast is 100% Microsoft-free.
  • So it didnt need a emulator to be compatable with DOS apps & Win3.X apps. Plus with Odin OS/2 has reversed enginerred W32 API built in, so it can do win9X/NT apps without emulation either. Actually when it comes to DOS & W3.X apps, an OS/2 system will beat any equilivent windows system anyday.

  • Here's an idea. (Score:3)

    by Elvii ( 428 ) <david1975@c o m cast.net> on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @05:25PM (#1080072) Homepage
    Anyone thought of an emulation-based box? Probably not possibly ATM due to tech and licsense reasons, but a console that could play NES/N64/PSX/PS2, dreamcast, etc, would be neat. The price on something like that, thou, is something I'm not even gonna think about. :) Nor am I going to wonder how to run cart and cd based games pratically on a system like this.... it's just an random thought. Back to perl now, oh well..

    bash: ispell: command not found
  • I'm not so interested in the coding aspect of it (they *will* have MS's WinCE development libraries on their side) but I am kinda interested in how it's going to work. I'm assuming that you'll probably have to pop their CD/GD into the Dreamcast and load it up, followed by removing the disc and putting in a PlayStation game. Not too difficult at all, but still... I wonder, since usually when you remove a disc the system returns to the main screen. Interesting, nonetheless, especially if they can get it to enhance games to anywhere near the quality that the PC can with Bleem!...
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Well, now we're going to start seeing a different question on emulation-related IRC channels.

    "NE1 G0TZ D4 BL33MC4ST R0MZ?!?!?!?!"

    Interestingly enough, one of my friends invented the term "Bleemcast" in 1999, far before there was even speculation on the matter.

  • Re:This is interesting... (Score:3)

    by Rew190 ( 138940 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @06:14PM (#1080076)
    ... But you're forgetting that we haven't heard anything from Sega yet; we don't know if they support Bleem or not, just because Bleem for DC exists doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that Sega supports it. After all, Sony was pissed at Bleem... But to my knowledge, Sega hasn't said anything about this new software yet. If they have, can someone provide a link?

  • So? (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )

    I'm not terribly surprised, I'm sure someone would do it just for the hack value. After all, you can play MAME games on some digital cameras...

    Also, a message to everyone who thinks this is illegal in some way:

    I understand the PSX2 (not the PS/2!) is going to do the same thing. In hardware. So pipe down, already...

    Now if only the PSX2 could emulate the Dreamcast emulating the PSX...

    So what then, you say? Well, then you can hack on PS-ZX [uk.com], and not rest until you can play DEFENDER!!!

    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
  • I hope so, I'm not sure if bleem! on the PC does CD/Reigon checking. If this played backups/imports, Sony may actually have a case against Bleem! on Dreamcast, however, if it played backups/imports, I'd be one of the first in line to by a DC + Bleem!

  • It is a GD-ROM that you boot, then load a PSX CD in its place

  • short some buttons? (Score:3)

    by bbk ( 33798 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @06:24PM (#1080080) Homepage
    As anyone who has used it knows, the dreamcast controller does not have the secondary trigger buttons that are on a playstation controller, or one of the dual shock's analog sticks (which are far better than the "rip the skin of your finger" stick on the dreamcast).

    Aftermarket controllers anyone?
  • But will this emulator allow them to play burnt Sony Playstation games? If so,I could see a lot of people buying it so they don't have to go through the hassle of installing mod chips.

    Colin Winters
  • Revenue stream for Sega??

    This just means more money for Sony, since Dreamcast owners will now buy more Playstation Games.

    To me, this looks like something of a desparate act.. How does Sega derive any additional revenue from this? I guess they'll sell a few copies of Bleem, but with the current legal climate in the US with regard to copyright infringement etc, surely Sony could claim Sega are circumventing a copyright protection mechanism - i.e. PSX discs are intended to be used only in PSX consoles, and have a special mechanism to prevent them being copied or played in other players. Bleem have already won in court, but whats to stop Sony from re-suing Sega for a similar infringement and winning?

    Personally, i think Sega has every right to do what they are doing, but Sony certainly has the $$$ to buy the law, at least in the US.

    The previous case was heavily based on the fact that PCs did not directly compete with the consoles for sales - i doubt this holds true with regard to Dreamcast vs PSX/PSX2.

    Perhaps i would buy a dreamcast if i knew my warezed PSX games would run on it, since they won't run on a PSX2 until MOD chips or similar devices become available for it (Which is when i'll consider buying a PSX2). I know thats 'wrong' and all, i guess i'm just an evil man.

    I'm all for this capability being provided, i just don't see it as being a very pivotal decision for Sega, as it simply cements Sony's position as the manufacturers of the One True Console in the minds of everyone.

  • is there any upcoming emulator for the
    dreamcast itself ?
    long time ago there was a fake (Nightmare),
    but nowadays is the scene very quiet :-(
  • Geez,

    I wouldn't want to be in Bleems shoes right about now.
    Sony, even though they've already been through the courts once, must be going to try it again, even if just to slow things down.
    It's a bit like someone working out the formula for Coke and handing it to Pepsi!


    "How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge [insurge.com.au] - AK47


  • If it plays PSX games, then it'll be able to play the
    Namco museum titles [ign.com], the first disc of which contains pac man. This is a bit interesting as the Namco Museum games are run under emulation on the PSX. So to play these titles on the DreamCast will represent two layers of emulation. I'm sure it'll work fine, but it's a little funny to see time marked by layers of emulation... something like rings in the trunk of a tree.

    There's also the 20th anniversary pac man [ign.com] title.. but I like the emulated original better.



    Seth
  • There is something to be said about being able to play Final Fantasy 8 and Chrono Cross on a dreamcast.

    But i didnt even knowthe dreamcast supported CDroms.

    ----
    Oh my god, Bear is driving! How can this be?
  • Ask and yee shall recieve, and no, this doesnt link to that damn goatsex shit.

    http://www.zdnet.com/ zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2240504,00.html [zdnet.com]

  • Re:Emulation, oh boy oh boy (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you don't own a Playstation, why do you own the Playstation version of Twisted Metal. That doesn't sound like it saves money. Am I missing something?
  • Well then they've got to be mad over something since they took Bleem to court. If they saw it as a good thing for Sony, then I seriously doubt they'd try to sue the company making this "good thing". It probally presents a loss of control to Sony.
  • It makes money for Sega by making you get the console. For while they may not make money on the actual console, it does mean they can start to sell you Dreamcast games instead of only PSX games. So by you buying a DC, Sega now has a totally new market that they otherwise would have lost to Sony. Surely you won't buy a $200 DC to only play PSX games when you can pick up a PSX for $100.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I'm surprised that no one so far is happy about this. So far, it seems only Sega has said emulation is legal (Sony has not really said anything, but they sued bleem!) and Nintendo still has their stance "All emulators are illegal!". Sega is willing to release emulators commercially or endorce them (First the "Sega Smash Pack", now the "bleemcast!"). Many people will like this for the reason that they can sell their used PSXs and some games but keep the good ones. However, the rumor mills have stated that you will only be able to play 400 games (100 per "bleempak" you buy), making me kind of angry. I'd rather have a full fledged emulator than an emu that checks for certain games.

  • This is interesting... (Score:3)

    by Shaheen ( 313 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2000 @05:34PM (#1080093) Homepage
    This is actually kinda cool. I was actually going to buy a PlayStation at one point to play games like Final Fantasy VIII the way they were supposed to be played - on a console where the resolutions are right.

    I have a Dreamcast, and this type of thing just made my day. It seems that Sega really knows where to go in this age where they know the following invariants about console gaming:

    • Their console will be obsolete in about a year
    • The games it can play will be thrown aside along with the console


    That's it. However, Sega seems to be taking the right direction. By supporting emulation of games, Sega is showing that older games are a viable source of revenue, even if it's a pittance compared to what they used to make, it's still something. Also, it might even revive a market for a long dead console. How many of us have wished for a good old Nintendo or Genesis after playing some of our favorite games in an emulator?

    I like what Sega is doing, and I'll definitely be on the preorder lists for Bleem! when it comes out for Dreamcast

    Also, for more E3 spectaculars (such as a WarCraft III trailer and PS2 news), check out dailyradar.com [dailyradar.com]

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