Interplay Targeted By Bioware-fare 215
corby writes: "Bioware Corp., developer of the highly anticipated multiplayer Dungeons & Dragons game Neverwinter Nights, is escalating the conflict with their troubled publisher Interplay. In September, they filed a lawsuit against the publisher, and now they have terminated their contract with Interplay to distribute Neverwinter Nights. The problem is, these guys need each other. The loss of Neverwinter Nights means that Interplay will lose out on substantial revenue from a surefire hit, but Interplay is apparently the only company with rights to distribute games under the AD&D license."
Crap headline again? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Crap headline again? (Score:1)
Re:Crap headline again? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Crap headline again? (Score:1)
Misleading headline (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Misleading headline (Score:2, Insightful)
It took a quarter second for my eyes to move from the headline to the article, during which time I did not succumb to a panic attack or suffer overwhelming confusion.
Should I infer from your post that you believe most Slashdot readers are thin-skinned and stupid?
Re:Misleading headline (Score:1, Insightful)
Interplay Targeted by Bio-warfare
Re:Misleading headline (Score:1)
No one should have taken offence at the original version, which I what I was trying to point out. Hell, no one should have even drawn attention to the original version, as the alleged insensitive humor was too obvious to merit any comment at all. But, hey, anything for moderation points.
Re:Misleading headline (Score:1)
Re:Misleading headline (Score:1)
Re:Misleading headline (Score:2, Flamebait)
The original headline read "Interplay Targeted by Bio-Warfare."
Michael is also an idiot.
abusing +2 since 1998
Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1)
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:2)
Actually, AD&D is a trademark owned by Hasbro. Remember who bought WotC.
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1, Interesting)
If you want to make an exact copy of AD&D and call it GNU/AD&D, expect to get sued. A lot.
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1)
Sword & Sorcery covers it. Just swap with synonyms and you've got a lawsuit-free game system.
Ergo:
Blades & Magic
Swords & Spells
Knights & Summoning
Kings & Casting
Princess & Necromancy
Might & Magic (oops, someone beat me to it).
Legally, they CAN use "Based on the AD&D role-playing system" as a blurb. Heck, there's plenty of fantasy-play systems which could be used in place of the AD&D layout. The DIABLO play system is gaining rapid popularity and it's not the only one.
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1)
It's around. They probably could get the rights to it. (Steve Jackson, owner of Steve Jackson Games, which publishes GURPS, has gone to the Computer Game Developer's conference wearing a shirt saying to ask him about licensing his games.) I personally consider it a vastly superior RPG to D&D.
However, I don't really think it is a valid option for Neverwinter Nights. It would require a lot of changes. I can't see a game that wouldn't allow you to multi-class to more than three classes easily being changed to a classless system with hundreds of skills.
Sword & Sorcery covers it. Just swap with synonyms and you've got a lawsuit-free game system.
I really, really doubt it. Fallout originally had a GURPS license, and after they dropped the license I believe SJ Games sued them to keep them from releasing it as GURPS with the serial numbers filed off.
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1)
Open Gaming Foundationg (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html
The second link is to the SYSTEM REFERENCE DOCUMENT for D20/DnD. It contain's most of the content from the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Monsters Manual I, and the Psionics Handbook.
Re:Open Gaming Foundationg (Score:2, Informative)
This license gives fairly broad rights to most people willing to build upon the d20 ruleset, almost certainly including non-commercial games, but IANAL, so don't take my word on it.
Re:Open Gaming Foundationg (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1)
Big issue would be the setting anyway. The Forgotten Realms is not under the d20 license, so Wizards' lawyers could have a field day.
Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source (Score:1, Funny)
Think before speaking... (Score:2)
Just because you're not charging for it, doesn't mean you can steal someone elses works to include. Just try and include some Metallica MP3's, in an open source projet of some sort, and see how well that flies.
D&D Nitpicking (Score:5, Informative)
Neverwinter Nights will be based on the 3rd edition D&D rules (D&D3e), which is different from AD&D.
A link to the 3rd Edition System Reference Document with all the core rules released to the Open Gaming Foundation (including Psionics!) may be found here [opengamingfoundation.org].
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:5, Funny)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:2)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1)
cheers
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:2, Funny)
Yes. Remember, folks: it is very uncool to like anything.
Do you feel passion about anything? Do you ever laugh and have a good time with friends? Then you're not alive.
Only nihilists are cool and living correctly, and despite that (or because of that) their lives are wasted on them. But I guess that's the whole point.
Re:nihilists (Score:2)
lol, nice nihilist definition. wish i had a mod point for ya.
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1)
I haven't actually played AD&D 2nd ed but a few times, but have spent a lot of time using D&D boxed set / AD&D 1st ed hybrids.. I'm not oldskool enough to have played D&D original - I started with the boxed set edition (red box: Basic Set (levels 1-3, dungeons only); blue box: Expert Set (levels 4-14, outdoors); cyan box: Companion Set (levels 15-25, castles and stuff); black box: Master Set (levels 26-36, kingdoms and stuff); and was it gold box: Immortal Set?).
I have heard that the AD&D 3rd ed is pretty different from 2nd ed, though. But, AD&D 2nd ed definitely was not D&D second edition, as it's so that D&D still had Dave Arneson listed as authors, while AD&D first ed dropped him and had just Gygax. AD&D 2nd ed is considered by TSR (does the name still exist, or are they now WotC?) "a different game from the first edition" which allowed them to drop Gygax from the list of authors and, more importantly, stop paying royalties to Gygax as well as stop having to listen his whining. The same Gygax did to Arneson with AD&D originally..
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:2)
D&D was originally rules scattered through some war game magazines, then there was the D&D boxed set, which covered the rules up to third level.
AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons) was next, rules up to level 11 in great detail with general rules that covered up to level 24 or so. AD&D consolidated the rules from D&D plus many articles in gaming magazines (Dragon mainly). AD&D second edition was an attempt to make the rules more 'sensible', and at the same time bowdlerise the game somewhat (this was at the height of the "moral majority's" power in the freedom loving USA). Most people consider AD&D second edition to be very lame. At this time TSR also released, Oriental Adventures (good add on), and SpellJammer (magic space faring ships) as well as a slew of other add on books all for AD&D (first and second edition).
Just recently Wizards of the Coast (TSR is gone, due to real bad book sales one xmas goes one rumour) released "Dungeons and Dragons" - no mention of a third edition anywhere on the cover or inside, and its quite a different system from AD&D. Most people do call these current rules the "third edition". The new rules are more consistent, and just a little more intuitive. Being thoroughly 'old school' I still prefer to use the old AD&D rules, but my kids like the new books.
Just in case some of you haven't figured out the link between the two things, I have had sex.
so in brief:
Dungeons and Dragons - boxed set
AD&D - same rules, extended and all in one set of books.
AD&D 2nd edition - sucky update
D&D (un-officially the third edition) - good reworking of the game in three books.
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:2)
I stopped playing D&D in 1994 and AD&D in 1996. By that time I'd moved on to Ultima and Bard's Tale. The big attraction was being able to play without having to coordinate everyone's schedule. It was easier when we were younger to get everyone together, but as people started dating, partying, and/or taking studies seriously, weekend-long sessions just didn't happen.
We old farts try to get together now and then, but with work, wives, kids, kid's activities, vacations, it takes weeks of advance planning to get something organized, if your gaming buddies live within 50 miles. Online gaming has been a boon to us with lives, in that we can put the kids to sleep, tell the wives to go do the "girl" thing, then hack and slash again with our ol' buds be they on the other side of the country.
I can't wait for NWN.
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:2)
Okay, well, you are curiously wrong.
D&D (the original) goes back, way back, before my time.
AD&D originally consisted of three hardcover books: the Player's Handbook, the Dungeonmaster's Guide, and the Monster Manual. The theory was that players could buy the PH and get everything they needed from it, while DMs would buy the DMG and MM for the rest. In actual fact, most everyone bought all three.
Slightly later, after the MM, the Fiend Folio was released. This was mostly a compilation of monsters from White Dwarf magazine. These four books made up AD&D as it was played in the early '80s.
Some people also used a book called Deities & Demigods. It sucked (more than D&D generally did) though so even people who had a copy didn't make much use of it.
In the mid-'80s, TSR started putting out more supplements. One of these supplements was Oriental Adventures. Another was Unearthed Arcana, which introduced a lot of rules changes; there were numerous others, like the Monster Manual II and plenty more I've forgotten (happily).
Second edition AD&D wasn't released until right around the end of the '80s. I've never played it but from what I've seen of it, it's based on Unearthed Arcana, only more so. But by the time it was released, Oriental Adventures (probably the best D&D book ever published) had gone out of print.
I'm not sure when SpellJammer came out precisely; I think it did come out around the same time as 2nd ed. More goofy stuff.
BTW, Wizards of the Coast is a division of Hasbro now. WotC bought TSR with the fortune they made from Magic: The Gathering, and then Hasbro swallowed them up.
ownership (Score:2)
oop. MTG didn't give too much money to wotc (not enough to buy the near-bankrupt TSR and survive with a chance of success). It was Pokemon and WotC's alliance with Nintendo that raked in the cash. It was Pokemon that Hasbro bought WOtC for. Magic and D&D were just "bonuses"
Hasbro bought Microprose to get into the computer game industry, Avalon Hill was suing over the rights to the name of competing games called "Civilization" - so Hasbro just bought Avalon Hill rather than fight them. The entire development team at AH was scrapped as was almost the entire product line (except, of course, Diplomacy).
here's a fun fact for ya: Wizards of the Coast made unofficial D&D accessories (and greetings cards) before picking up a certain Richard Garfield and introducing the world to Magic.
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:2)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1)
Re:D&D Nitpicking (Score:1, Troll)
I Floccinaucinihilipilificate the word Floccinaucinihilipilification.
More D&D Nitpicking (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure that Wizards of the Coast [wizards.com]/Hasbro [hasbro.com] split the Dungeons and Dragons lines into several different developers' hands. Interplay owns only Forgotten Realms [wizards.com] (which includes the Baldurs Gate games, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights) and Planescape.
Due to a grandfather clause, SSI (the company to first publish D&D games, including Eye of the Beholder, Shattered Lands, Menzoberranzan, Strahd's Possession) can still produce Forgotten Realms games. They publish through Mattel, NOT Interplay. Take a look at the Pool of Radiance [poolofradiance.com] site for more information. Oh, and Pool of Radiance will also use the D&D 3rd Edition rules (and is the first and only video/computer game out currently to do so).
I believe that other companies (not Interplay) have rights to other D&D worlds, such as Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Birthright (Sierra owned this one a few years ago but the line may be dead), and Greyhawk.
Just great (Score:4, Informative)
MasterTools (Score:2)
In fact, Ryan Dancey posted updated info [wizards.com] regarding the project just two days ago on the WotC Message Boards.
Re:MasterTools (Score:3)
Re:MasterTools (Score:2)
Whoopeedoo. MasterTools wasn't originally conceived as a game. It was only ever supposed to be a set of tools for F2F gaming management. Just because some yahoo at WotC thought it'd be "neat" if you could play online doesn't mean it was a good idea or even something Wizards/Fluid *ever* had any legal right to do.
As far as the functionality of the program being so limited, chalk that one up to the yahoos at WotC wasting Fluid's time with feature bloat. Now they've come too far to scrap the project, but Hasbro isn't going to budget any more money for development unless and until they see this as a profitable endeavor. *IF* and only if people actually buy MT, then it'll be supported and expanded. As it is, they're way late on delivering this to the marketplace.
Had they focused on the original concept, not only would the thing be out by now, it'd be an awesome utility.
Re:MasterTools (Score:1)
Something like OpenRPG (OpenRpg.Org) but with better graphics.
Re:MasterTools (Score:1)
No! Really?
I am talking about the original stated goal of having the ability to pay DnD 3e over the net with a Human DM and Human players.
That was NEVER supposed to be what MasterTools was for. Wizards never had the rights to develop that sort of program.
Besides, there's no reason why you couldn't do 3e over the net with MT the way it was originally conceived and IRC.
Re:MasterTools (Score:1)
As to playing it over the net as is, no you cant. The combat features will not be network aware.
Re:MasterTools (Score:1)
Like I said in my previous post, some yahoo at WotC thought it'd be "neat".
Ain't you never heard of mission creep?
OpenRPG (Score:1)
Re:Just great (Score:2, Informative)
Also, Infogrames owns the rights to all computer-based tools and games. Interplay may have a license to publish D&D games, but then again, so does SSI (remember Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor? Released just a month or so ago...), and probably one or two other publishers. Owning the rights to something altogether and owning a license to something are two completely different things.
They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights... (Score:4, Interesting)
Stated reason was difficulty breaking them from an MS framework. Seems like a designer fubared by choosing that framework to begin with, huh?
Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights... (Score:2)
It sucks, but a bad decision early in the design product makes some things impossible. The fact that the game itself is playable on Linux, Windows, and Mac is a huge thing, however, and IMHO much more important than the toolkit. That shows good design from the beginning.
Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights... (Score:1)
Ah, but this is the game editor we're talking about. It's not about making money on sales, but on fostering a vibrant 3rd-party game world design scene. The relevant question is: is there a significant non-Windows level development scene? And I think, considering the number of D&D aficianados that use *nix, that you could say this is the case.
I find it surprising that they could figure out a way to make the game cross-platform, but not the editor. An editing tool doesn't have nearly the audio, video, and networking demands placed upon it that the game itself does; an editor just has to have some dialog boxes, various map displays, etc. If anything I would expect it would be easier to put together a cross-platform editor than it would be to create a cross-platform game.
Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights... (Score:1)
hmm. (Score:1)
What are we gonna say?
Fuck 'em - they deserve each other, though it would be nice to see the game come out. I hate it when adults act like children, damn....
Wizards = Publisher? (Score:1)
Penny Arcade's take on it... (Score:5, Funny)
I got a giggle out of it, at least...
Re:Penny Arcade's take on it... (Score:1)
http://www.megatoyko.com
argent
Licenced properties... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Licenced properties... (Score:1)
Hey, I was salivatin' for "Hired Guns" back in 99. Got a copy you can "release" to the newsgroups?
Dungeons and Dragons (Score:4, Flamebait)
Lol! (Score:1)
Re:Dungeons and Dragons (Score:1)
Re:Dungeons and Dragons (Score:3, Funny)
All gamers should click that link (Score:1)
Re:Dungeons and Dragons (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.lunarpages.com/darkdungeons/ [lunarpages.com]
Re:Dungeons and Dragons (Score:2, Funny)
Whoa there! (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.poolofradiance.com/ [poolofradiance.com]
I don't see any mention of Interplay or Bioware there, yet it's an AD&D computer game. Would anyone care to explain?
Re:Whoa there! (Score:1)
Note that this was written years ago.
Re:Whoa there! (Score:1)
Pool of Radiance is a kind of a sequel to the old SSI gold box series (Pool of Radiance, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness) which was set in Phlan, then the surroundings, in the end covering the Moonsea area with visits to Myth Drannor, outer planes, thwarting plots to revive a god and so on. The whole SSI series, including other AD&D licensed games like the Eye of Beholder series, are available as "The Forgotten Realms Archive", in three boxes. The games look pretty awful by current standards, but were important milestones on the CRPG timeline.
Re:Whoa there! (Score:1)
However, the best CRPGs to date have been Planescape: Torment and Fallout 2. Both allow for different activities in a level that makes You forget that it's still linear. Note that the old (A)D&D modules were linear, too, so CRPGs being linear is just natural progression. It'd be too hard to write it otherwise.
D&D is not enough (Score:3, Interesting)
Put Baldur's Gate and Rogue side by side, and you see that Bioware has done more than just computerize D&D. They've greatly enhanced the user experience with sophisticated interaction, simulation, and non-player character engine. And they've also created a story that is sophisticated enough to engage but simple enough to be managed by a "Dungeon Master" that's just a piece of software, and thus has no ability to improvise. That last is not technically sophisticated, but it's what impresses me the most.
Re:D&D is not enough (Score:2)
Be ye warned! This has happened before. This will happen again. This is why the GPL is important. Analogous licenses should be created for other fields, whereever people start group creations. If they are not created, then some (you choose the perjorative term) will steal them. And then forbid the original creators from using their own creations. Sometimes I feel that such folk deserve neither mercy nor life. But acknowledging that they exist is the first step toward dealing with them. The GPL attempts to eliminate their habitat, which is certainly the preferred approach.
.
Slashdot = Misinformation? (Score:4, Informative)
Bioware CAN publish titles under AD&D license, interplay has been rideing the "bioware" wave for over a year now. Bioware has every damn right to terminate their contract, especially since Interplay VIOLATED the terms of it.
The game is slated to be released Mar 2002, and on another note, I submited this story on wednesday.
I have posted anonymusly in order to protect myself and other sources.
Someone should tell Infogrames (Score:5, Informative)
If Bioware can't hash things out with Interplay, I'm sure they can get a deal with Infogrames.
Exclusive Rights? (Score:2, Interesting)
The part that does mention AD&D indicates that it is being used under license, no mention of exclusivity.
Can anyone clear this up?
Re:Exclusive Rights? (Score:1)
Jaysyn
Agh (Score:1)
Keep your hopes up (Score:1)
Look at the copyrights page (Score:2)
* Bill Watterson - Calvin and Hobbes - This one I really don't understand, Bill didn't license anyone C&H...
* Peter Townhend - Tommy
* Mario, Luigi, The Princess, Yoshi and Koopa are trademarks of Nintendo of America, Inc
* Rodney Dangerfield Copyright © 1997 Dangerfield Entertainment
* Statistics provided by STATS, Inc. © 1998. All rights reserved
Makes you wonder what these chacters are used in / licensed for...
I don't think that means they were licensed.. (Score:2)
Interplay does not have any D&D rights (Score:1)
That sucks (Score:1)
the D&D NAME and LOGO licensed (Score:1)
Derek
Ok, right from the Bioware forums... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm thinking people are jumping the gun.
Not just another headline complaint... (Score:1)
Thank (insert favorite deity here) it isn't! Something interesting for a change! Had enough of this terrorism business.
On a more related note, can't wait for NWN!
My solution (Score:2, Interesting)
Frankly, I'm Glad (Score:2)
No, this isn't flamebait. I'm glad that they might get out of the AD&D business, and back to writing original, interesting, and easy-to-use adventures. Baldur's Gate was ok, but it was too tied to what it tried to reproduce -- AD&D, without going all the way.
Fallout was excellent because it was a role-playing game, but it wasn't any RPG you'd ever seen, short of pen-and-paper. What made Fallout great were the multiple conversation paths and the options you'd get, based on how knowledable or personable you were. It also helped that it was structured, but not overwhelmingly linear.
Yes, it had flaws, but the gameplay more than made up for it, and that's what I want to see more of.
Re:Jesus chirst (Score:1)
Re:Jeez.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Jeez.. (Score:1)
Re:WTF is with that title? (Score:1)
Re:WTF is with that title? (Score:1)
Re:Black isle tried that (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Black isle tried that (Score:1)
-JacobC
Re:Would have been a more clever headline... (Score:2, Offtopic)
without using the update tag of course.
Re:Not Me! (Score:1)