X-Box Hackers Trying to Blackmail Microsoft?

wumarkus420 writes "According to this article from CNet News, an anonymous X-Box security research team is threatening Microsoft: either release a digitally-signed official Linux bootloader or face the release of a new exploit that supposedly works without a modchip. While I doubt Microsoft 'negotiates with terrorists,' this should still turn out to be a good I-told-you-so if the exploit is verified." Sounds like a good way to end up in jail.

Morons

[mao che minh]

What a brilliant plan.

"Reveal your trade secrets Gates, or we will set in motion a chain of events that will conclude with our incarcaration in a vile butt-slamming federal prison! We're warning you!"

Re:Morons

[fobbman]

There're not going to white color resort prison. No, no, no. There're going to Federal pound me in the ass prison.

Re:Morons

[flacco]

There're not going to white color resort prison. No, no, no. There're going to Federal pound me in the ass prison.

Actually the federal joints aren't all that bad in comparison to the state systems. that's where you find true mutant hell on earth.

the abominable conditions found in prisons the world 'round plays a not insignificant role in my disillusionment with the human race. prisons are agents of the state, and to tacitly permit rape, murder, and assault on people under the control of the state is h

Re:Morons

[mikeophile]

You are obviously not familiar with minimum security resort prisons.

Re:Morons

[Cloud 9]

The trick is, kick somebody's ass on the first day, or become somebody's bitch.

Re:Morons

[k1llt1me]

Their Australian... They already live in a penal colony. What do they have to lose...

Re:Morons

[SQLz]

Are you an idiot? All they have to do is sign a binary to run on the hardware. There is no source code or anything involved in that, no giving away of trade secrets. Hint: aquire clue before posting.

Re:He's right

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Ever hear of a disassembler? Particularly for something as small as a bootloader, disassembling it is going to be trivial, so releasing a binary is effectively releasing source code. Just because he didn't spell it out doesn't make him a moron, he actually has a good point.

Don't be daft. They've already got the binary, all they want is a signature - disassembly is completely irrelevant. A signature is a cryptographically secure method of vouching for a particular piece of data, in case you didn't know.

Re:He's right

[baka_boy]

Actually, since they're asking for a signed bootloader, that would suggest that the X-Box uses cryptographic signatures to verify binaries. The whole point of that is that, while the bootloader binary itself could be copied and distributed freely, any modifications would immediately cause rejection, as the new binary wouldn't match its signature. For a modified bootloader, you'd need something like the exploit they're threatening to release, in order to circumvent the normal security checks.

Re:He's right

[LWATCDR]

The real problem is not with the security checks per say. It is the loss of money that Microsoft will face. If they release a signed bootloader you could write games for the X-BOX without paying a fee to Big Bill.
You could put linux,SDL, and the game of your your own creation on a CD or DVD and Sell it to the masses with out paying MS a penny.
So what if some people steal your game. We all know some peope will do that anyway. Of course a Linux+usb keyboard/mouse/printer running Linux/Open Office/Mozilla could be the first "net applance" that really takes off. I wounder how long it would take Lindows before they offered a CD+Keyboard/mouse setup.
Oh this could be soo bad for Microsoft. They will never do it.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Morons

[aardvarkjoe]

It probably is a violation of the DMCA -- since the "exploit" certainly involves getting around some built-in protection, which could easily be argued to be useful in copy protection.

I support standard copyright, but it's things like this that explain why the DMCA is a bad law.

Re:Morons

[cyborch]

Luckily the DMCA does not exist outside the US, and I will gladly host information on how to install linux on an x-box. That's not illegal here (Denmark).

Re: Don't be so sure...

[llin]

Denmark was the first country to adopt the EUCD (DMCA++). Here's a good EUCD status page [wiki.ael.be]. It has the same broad anti-circumvention tool [eurorights.org] proscriptions as the DMCA.

Re:Morons

[anonymous loser]

It's only a DMCA violation if it is circumventing the protection in order to violate a copyright.

Clearly, they are trying to boot linux on the machine (that's what they're asking for from MS) a.k.a. reverse-engineering to develop compatible system, which is explicitly allowed by the DMCA even if they are circumventing copy protection.

I'd provide a link to the relevant section of the law which states this, but I'm pretty lazy and someone else can use the karma.

Re:Morons

[bryanp]

Err, did they do anything actually illegal?

Well, yes. Blackmail is illegal. As an example, If I call you and say "I know you've been cheating on your spouse, and I want you to do X or I'll tell your spouse." that is blackmail. It wouldn't be illegal to just call her up and say "Joe is cheating on you.", but once I make demands of you in exchange for my silence then it becomes blackmail.

It may or may not be illegal for them to release a no-mod-chip exploit for the X-Box, it is definitely illegal for the

This isn't blackmail

[benjamindees]

definition [reference.com]

Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.

Re:Morons

[iceT]

"Reveal your trade secrets Gates"

Well, they didn't REALLY ask for any trade secrets. All they want is a boot-loader that is digitally signed so it can run on the xbox WITHOUT A MOD CHIP. They didn't ask MS how to MAKE a bootloader.. There is no loss of trade secret... only loss of control for the XBOX...

I wonder what would happen in Microsoft released a LINUX kit for the XBOX, including a distro, and the works (a la Sony and the PS/2)... The loader could still be proprietary...

Uh uh

[fm6]

All they want is a boot-loader that is digitally signed so it can run on the xbox WITHOUT A MOD CHIP.

Which Microsoft will never do. Once such a boot loader was out there, you could run any software on an XBox. If Microsoft is unable to control what software gets run on the XBox, they get no licensing fees from XBox developers. Since the XBox itself is sold at a loss, that'd be the end of the whole platform.

Why not?

[fm6]

It works in the movies!

Re:Morons

[TheLastUser]

Remember the god ol days, when buying a product meant that you had some rights regarding how you used it?

How come if I buy, say, a tennis raquet, and use it instead to play squash, nobody f**king cares. But if I take an Xbox and decide to use it play an open-source squash simulator, the gestapo will throw me into the aforementioned "vile butt-slamming federal prison".

And for that matter, what's with all the "vile butt-slamming" in federal prisons? Can't we have some sort of 3 slaps law?

The Racket Racket

[fm6]

Suppose tennis rackets were very expensive to make. No one can afford to buy them, until somebody gets the idea of selling them at a loss, and making a profit by selling tennis court time. They've patented tennis courts, of course, so you can't just build your own. Then people discover that squash is public domain, so they start playing squash instead. How soon would it be before it was illegal to play squash with a tennis racket?

I hear you saying, "That's lame. You can't use regulate people's behavior to that level." I certainly agree. And eventually the big IP hoarders will figure this out. But in the meantime -- well, I was never any good at tennis.

Re:The Racket Racket

[arose]

Too expensive to make? Buy a damn RacketCube.

viva la freenet!

[pillohead]

That was my first thought, freenet that baby let all those 15 users know how to mod thier x-box.

Re:Morons

[Tuxinatorium]

maybe, if they can anonymously do it anonymously

Re:Morons

[Nogami_Saeko]

So, let me see if I have this "reasonable" request straight. Let's check the points...

- Microsoft is asked to release a free operating system bootloader to allow people who bought VIDEO GAME systems to use things other than the game software they are entitled to use.

- Microsoft is selling XBOX systems at a loss (or near loss) and hoping to recoup some of their money on expensive software.

- The hacker types want them to do this in order to run an operating system that's not only free, but is in direct competition with Microsoft's bread and butter operating system market?

Am I summing that up pretty well?

- Oh yes, if they don't provide a free bootloader, the hackers will release a mod that allows you to (presumably) boot unsigned programs, be it linux, or (probably) copied games.

N.

Re:Morons

[NortWind]

... to allow people who bought VIDEO GAME systems to use things other than the game software they are entitled to ...

I don't think you understand what it means to own something. If I were to buy an Xbox, I could legally use it as a boat anchor, a footwarmer, or to run any software I wish to run on that computer. It's only a video game system if you choose to use it to play video games.

...and hoping to recoup some of their money on expensive software.

Microsoft can hope all they like, but buying an Xbox doesn't legally compel the buyer to get even one game. You can buy it and smash it just to admire the the pieces if you want. That's your right as the owner.

The hacker types want them to do this in order to run an operating system that's not only free, but is in direct competition

Yes. Why shouldn't they be able to run their legal software on hardware they own? You don't have to sign a EULA to buy an Xbox.

... if they don't provide a free bootloader, the hackers will release a mod that allows you to (presumably) boot unsigned programs...

That's the deal they are offering. They are saying "Let us run legal software that we have a fair use right to run on our own hardware, without compromising your security system *or* we will allow any software to be run whether it is signed by MS or not."

Profit!

[grolschie]

Perhaps MS could make money by *selling* such a bootloader..... ;-)

Microsoft would never negotiate with terrorists

[mikeophile]

They hate the competition.

Re:Microsoft would never negotiate with terrorists

[Surak]

The only reason that's funny is that it's true.

WHy can't you get modded Funny *AND* insightful? :)

*slaps forehead and winces*

[Bame Flait]

These morons are just going to make the case for tougher enforcement and DRM.

It's not a war we want - because (and not to be trite) everyone will lose. Throw these criminals in jail and get on with it.

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[Centinel]

These morons are just going to make the case for tougher enforcement and DRM.

Maybe the whole thing is a Redmond-sponsored false flag operation to provide Microsoft with an "example" in support its DRM lobbying efforts.

Now, where did my roll of tinfoil go ...

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[EpsCylonB]

if your tinfoil is in a roll and not already on your head then you are comprimised.

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Maybe the whole thing is a Redmond-sponsored false flag operation to provide Microsoft with an "example" in support its DRM lobbying efforts. "

Maybe you're paid by Microsoft to sound like a conspiracy nut so we'll ignore this possiblity.

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[OrenWolf]

Except that they aren't doing anything criminal.

*unless* they require some portion of Microsoft's own code to reflash the BIOS (or in the resultant BIOS that is flashed), adding a drop of solder to my XBOX is *not* illegal. Running any software on my XBOX is *not* illegal. I own it.

Where they would be "criminals" is if, and only if, they've stolen some MS proprietary code.

And thankfully, the DMCA doesn't apply in Australia.

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[bofkentucky]

Tell that to Dimitri....

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[Pieroxy]

Well, it is obviously illegal to play a DVD on your linux box. Even through you own:
* Linux
* The hardware
* The DVD

It is still illegal to watch a DVD on your box because the MPAA guys didn't grant a license to any software vendor that release a software DVD player for Linux. What is illegal is actually to circumvent the CSS encoding of DVDs without paying for it.

Re:*slaps forehead and winces*

[OrenWolf]

Yes they are, it's called "blackmail".

A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief - (a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and (b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

Are we suggesting that everyone that threatens to release an exploit if a company doesn't patch a problem is a blackmailer?

They're suggesting that they'll toss away their info if Microsoft doesn't make it *required* to use such means to use Linux. In other words, the party "that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand", because the exploit is a *legal* way to do what they want, and they're asking for another legal means to do what they want, or else they will release theirs.

Mod parent down

[acidrain69]

If you had *read* the article, you'd realize that if MS releases an official bootloader, this will *avoid* piracy. The group says they will release the exploit if MS refuses, and the exploit, which allows Linux to boot, ALSO allows for piracy, while an official boot loader wouldn't.

RTFA.

Pipedot. Geek news without the slant.

[Speare]

You know, c|net did a pretty good job of covering the story without the scare-mongering, sensationalistic crap that this poster did. People could read the article and draw their own conclusions, rather than shepherding the flock to the appropriate anti-X rhetoric opinion.

Re:Pipedot. Geek news without the slant.

[GMontag]

Excuse me Sir. We have traditions straddling two millinea AND two centuries here.

Are you proposing that we stomp on the most sacred?

Re:Pipedot. Geek news without the slant.

[calethix]

no offense to you but..
only on slashdot would a post suggesting to actually read the article get a +5 insightful ;)

Bluff.

[Squidgee]

They really think MS would release an official LINUX bootloader?! Of course not.

THis is, plain and simple, a bluff. If they had a way to do it, they'd release it; why wouldn't they? Who needs an official bootloader if you can boot Linux without a modchip?

It's a bluff to bully MS into allowing Linux on the Xbox. And it isn't going to work.

Re:Bluff.

[BiteMeFanboy]

I'll bet they do. They're probably young kids. People who have the ability to learn the technical stuff, or who, as of yet, haven't developed a mature sense of how the world works. So they have the means, just no idea that it won't work.

Re: calling their bluff

[mboots]

RTFA, please. The "hackers" would prefer a legally signed bootloader, since it would not have the side effect of allowing pirated games to run on the Xbox. That's why they aren't releasing their mods right away - they're giving M$ the chance to do the right thing. And actually, you can already boot linux without a modchip; see here [xboxhacker.net] for details.

Bluff? It might just be M$'s left hand.

[twitter]

Did you ever think the plan makes no sense because it's just another brilliant piece of M$ PR? This story has the same stench that the Apple to M$ switcher did. As you noticed, any normal group would have just released the code and trick. No one wanting to play ball with M$ would pull a stunt like this. No, calling people who mod xboxes, "pirates" was not enough for M$. It seems they have decided to make them look like mad bombers, "Do what I say or the xbox gets it!" What bullshit.

This way, they get

Re:Bluff.

[hesiod]

> This can already be done, with the well-known 007 savegame exploit,
> Do what I say, or else I'll tell everyone something they already know!

Not that I put much faith in the skills of an anonymous cracker, but if you actually read the article, you will find that they are supposedly not talking about the '007 exploit.' Supposedly, this one is easier.

Re:Bluff.

[stratjakt]

Easier than what? Booting a game and picking a save file?

You only have to do it once, flash your bios, and that's that.

Unless they found a way to flash the bios without shorting the WE pads (ie; without opening the box), I wont be impressed. It's just a variation on a theme.

They come off like script kiddies. Threatening people with anothers skills/products.

Legality

[phritz]

This is obviously illegal under the DMCA ... but what real laws are they breaking?

Does this legally qualify as blackmail? I can't think of any other laws that would apply here.

Howdy ho

[stratjakt]

Umm, there's already an exploit that needs no mod (the 007 gamesave thingy).

So big freakin deal? These guys sound like idiots.

Whatever they know will be found out by others anyways. I seriously doubt MS cares about the .05% of people who buy xboxes to modify them for linux.

Hell for every guy who buys an xbox only for linux, theres a hundred like me who'll buy a dozen games or so.

It's funny how much power nerds think they have. They have about as much pull as pee wee herman.

Re:Howdy ho

[dnaSpyDir]

They have about as much pull as pee wee herman.

now would that be inside or outside of a theatre?

sorry,couldn't resist :-)

Re:Howdy ho

[drunk_as_in_beer]

It's funny how much power nerds think they have.

We write the software you use. We keep your systems up and running. We do your backups. We manage your data. We guard you while you sleep. Do NOT fuck with us!

I remember...

[Daimaou]

I remember trying this back in the days of Windows 95. I said, "Microsoft, you either release Windows 95 for free, or I will give away a secret code, 111-1111111, which will render your 'key-code' security invalid and allow everyone to pirate your OS."

They didn't listen, so I released it.

Shoot...

[JoeLinux]

I always used 0001235467.

Yours is SO much simpler.

Wow...even on piracy of unwanted/unused Operating systems, the linux community has found a more efficient method. I'm impressed.

Re:Shoot...

[kalidasa]

I always used 0001235467.
Yours is SO much simpler.

Obligatory Spaceballs quote:

"1-2-3-4-5? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life. That's the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage."

I think I saw this on GI Joe once...

[LordYUK]

Who do they think they are, Cobra?

I mean, gee... This sounds like some corny Saturday morning cartoon plot...

"reveal your secret or face my wrath!"

Now all we need is for them to declare that they have an army of fanatical zealots devoted to the cause of bringing their plan to frutation, i.e., Linux on the X-box...

oh, wait...

hmm...

How to make linux look stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah really professional guys,thanks for that

what happens when IT/CTO managers read antics like this ?, you think it furthers Linux adoption or sets it back ?, i know we would look rather stupid if this article came up at one of our board meetings,

Re:How to make linux look stupid

[rmohr02]

RTFA. It explains if the XBox exploit is made public it would allow game piracy, which the finders of the exploit would like to avoid (DMCA blah blah blah). Microsoft just has to decide what they hate more--piracy or Linux.

Simply more direct than usual

[genomancer]

Not saying I agree with them, but all they're doing is being more upfront than most anti-DRM/P2P/etc progressive technologies are. Half the topics on Slashdot these days of whether a corporation should support or fight a technology resolve to "If they don't support it, it'll get released anyway, so they might as well".. these guys are just coalescing that "vague threat" into a direct warning. Intelligent? No.. it's not a great way to fight a guerilla tech-war.. but in a way it's more honourable than the alternative.

G

Linux terrorists

[The Bungi]

O yeah, it sucks to be your own worst enemy. Not "release the specs", not "allow other OSes to run", no. "Make Linux run on this thing or else". All Microsoft has to do is turn around and say See? This is what open source is all about! You've heard about al-Qaeda and Hamas, but you ain't seen nothing until you face the the Pensacola LUG!!

Take gun, aim at foot, pull trigger. Repeat until death.

La Cosa Nostra

[ohboy-sleep]

Are they going to start forming gangs? Are they going to walk into a local shop and threaten to fdisk their customer data unless they get their protection money?

This is the wrong approach.

[csguy314]

Trying to twist Microsoft's arm into releasing an official Linux bootloader is definitely the wrong way to go. If people were able to convince MS that there was actually a market for that sort of thing then they might do it themselves, but that's doubtful. Nevertheless, trying to blackmail MS into doing it will only increase the already massive resentment MS suits feel towards the open source movement.
And quite frankly it doesn't make the Linux crown look very nice. Not that MS has very moral business practices; but there's no need to lower ourselves to their level.

seems risky

[Tancred]

Sounds like a good way to end up in jail.

True. However, if the story is true, then the blackmailers are quite technologically savvy. If they also have the willpower (e.g. not bragging about it), it could be next to impossible to trace.

Stupidity and Pointlessness

[AvantLegion]

Why should Microsoft allow running Linux on their Xbox?

Better question: why does anyone care??

You want to run Linux on a $200 device? Buy an e-Machine and shut the fuck up. Linux on the Xbox serves no purpose except for "huh huh, Linux on a Microsoft machine, huh huh huhuhuhuh, I'm a super l33t geex0r!"

Stuff like this is an embarrassment. I hope they get slapped silly with lawsuits.

Re:Stupidity and Pointlessness

[garcia]

agreed except for the point of it NOT being quite as powerful in the media department (tv-out, etc).

I have been quite happy w/Linux on my E-machine 1.8Ghz. It's fast, it's stable, and it was cheap as hell.

Re:Stupidity and Pointlessness

[Xerithane]

Why should Microsoft allow running Linux on their Xbox?

XBox == Hardware, which means it's mine. If I want to flash the BIOS, that's my thing. Microsoft should allow a signed Linux bootloader so they can control what it actually boots (instead of botting pirated games.)

You want to run Linux on a $200 device? Buy an e-Machine and shut the fuck up. Linux on the Xbox serves no purpose except for "huh huh, Linux on a Microsoft machine, huh huh huhuhuhuh, I'm a super l33t geex0r!"

I can understand your point, but you have to look at the differences here:
XBox has a custom NV2X chip, designed for TV Output. It has a decent CPU, 64MB RAM, and a decent size hardware.

It's an appliance box, not a full computer. I would love to have Linux (Or some other flexible operating system) running on there for Jukebox/graphics capabilities.

Stuff like this is an embarrassment. I hope they get slapped silly with lawsuits.

It's a shame you feel that way, because they are doing the same things that made Slashdot a possibility. (Remember the altair, and if you don't, go rent some real documentaries.)

I'll bite

[Gregoyle]

Reasons for running Linux on an XBox rather than another platform? How about:

1. Built in TV out.
2. Built in *5.1* digital sound. Most digital soundcards do not offer this, the only stream sent over the optical cable is in stereo. The one exception I know of is the sound built in to NVidia's NForce.
3. Built in ethernet.
4. Built in DVD/CD-ROM (although it is kind of picky about some of the DVD-R's used)
5. USB after a slight modification (not much harder than modchipping in the first place).
6. Relatively lo

How dare MS released a closed system!

[AvantLegion]

Lots of replies about "it's my Xbox, I should be able to do what I want with it!"

Or, in translated form, "how dare MS released a closed system!"

On what grounds does Microsoft NOT have the right to release a closed piece of hardware?? Why should they HAVE to support all the geeks that want the hardware but do NOT want to buy the software that basically finances the hardware??

Answer: they don't. They have every right to release a closed system. People talk about all the goodies that come in that $200 box. Those goodies are paid for by the game software purchases that are supposed to follow.

If a not-insignificant amount of Xboxes sell without any of those game purchases following, the price point would be hard to maintain.

But of course, none of that matters, because "MS is bad", "bomb Redmond", and other similar bullshit.

Re:Stupidity and Pointlessness

[Euphonious Coward]

There are plenty of good reasons to want to be able to boot Linux on an unmodified Xbox.

First, there are millions of them out there. For anybody who already has one, it's not $200, or $150, it's free (as in beer). Lots of kids get them as birthday, graduation, or Xmas presents. We have the opportunity to rescue all that hardware (and all those kids) from MS oblivion.

Second, there are millions of Xboxes out there. Visiting friends or family, and want to check your e-mail? If they have an Xbox, just bo

Re:Stupidity and Pointlessness

[zakezuke]

Why should Microsoft allow running Linux on their Xbox?

Microsoft should care because they are selling the xbox at a loss, based under the assumption that buying games will be profitable.

While you may disagree with their business practices, it's their product and they have the right to choose how it is sold. While I think they are missing a bet, as they chould choose to sell the Xbox with a basic linux distro, one designed for basic web browsing and e-mail, it's their choice not to create such a product

Um...

[r00k123]

This "secret" has been public for a while now.

There was even a /. story about it: here [slashdot.org]

Big threat...the info is already out there.

"I demand MS give me a copy of WinXP signed by BILL GATES HIMSELF or I will REVEAL THAT THE SECRET DOS COMMAND TO LIST ALL FILES!"

-Ben

It's a trap!

[Rayonic]

This is all an elaborate ploy by Microsoft to get everyone to buy an Xbox. They want you to believe that either A) Linux bootloader will be released, or B) 37337 exploit will be released. Don't fall for it!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to fashion a tinfoil helmet to block the RFID chip the dentist put in my molar.

yea right!

[Flunitrazepam]

Even if M$ , why would anyone believe whoever has this exploit wouldn't leak it anyway?

IF this exploit exists at all, it will either be leaked or duplicated by someone else.

WooHoo

[notque]

Finally some good press for Linux!

Hardware less hack!

[snoozerdss]

up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, B, A, select, start! ;)

Sooooo....

[Doomstalk]

They're trying to force Microsoft to release a piece of software that turns the Xbox into a cheap PC that Microsoft sells at a significant loss. I'm sorry, but I don't see that as especially likely. The modification they propose still requires you to solder the mainboard of the Xbox, and to flash the BIOS. That's only moderately cheaper and easier than installing a modchiop, and a lot more prohibitive than popping a disc into the drive. Let's not also forget that flashing your BIOS in that fashion effectively bars you from playing Xbox Live, since it automatically scans the BIOS on load. Many mod chips, on the other hand, can be switched on and off making them a much more reasonable solution for many pirates.

This won't work

[recursiv]

Quite simply, Microsoft has not motivation to comply. How does the "research group" expect to keep their method from leaking? It will leak regardless. So Microsoft either makes an official linux bootloader for Xbox or not... Hmm.... tough choice.

Promoting vandalism

[ClosedSource]

Another PR victory for the Linux community.

If I were Bill Gates....

[sllim]

I would put these kids in jail first. I would push for terrorist charges. I would try to get one of those sentences where they are not allowed within 15 feet of a computer for like 15 years.

Then (just to piss them off) I would release Linux for the xBox just as they asked.

The icing on my cake? I would charge like $100 for it.

Alas, Bill isn't that entertaining.
He probably has better things to do with his life then screw with these two morons.

Maiman's laser was pointless too.

[SpeedBump0619]

*Sigh*

Why is it that the first response of just about everyone is "who cares"? Are there really that few of you who just do things because they are challenging?

There are a fairly wide variety of reasons to want to do this. The single most interesting reason for me is the ability to play *any* media using this single console. DVDs, VCDs, CDs, Streamed content, networked files, internet radio, flash, movie trailers...Anything I can play using a standard PC, *plus* i already have it connected into my system to play "Halo", "Brute Force", "Outlaw Golf", and a whole host of other games. Also, I can play all my old favorites, using various emulators...pacman, galaga, rastan, etc, etc...

All of this in a console that I already own. Why the hell would I *not* want to do this? Particularly if all it takes is a one time investment of 10 minutes getting the $10 memory card setup. Crist, it's not even a *stretch* for me to make the choice.

You know what's even better? I worked on the filesystem code for the xbox-linux project early on, before the prizes were offered. I *still* got $4500 for that work. That paid for my time and all the consoles I'll want to buy for the next 10 years. Never has a paycheck been so gratifying.

So tell me how foolish I am, berate my hobby as pointless or shortsighted. Then you go buy an xbox *and* a pc, that's fine. I'll just sit back and laugh at you.

this just in!!!

[macshune]

SYDNEY--Four teenage boys were found clinging to life today, after being thrown through 98 windows in a normally quiet suburban Sydney.

"We don't know for sure who did it, but this looks like the work of the MSDS--the Microsoft Defenestration Squad," said a Syndey Police Department spokesperson

The boys alledgedly had developed an easy way to circumvent the anti-piracy controls on Microsoft's game console, the X-Box. Reportedly, they tried to blackmail Microsoft with the information to try get a version of the Linux operating system to run on the X-Box. Microsoft never reponded to their blackmail.

The MSDS is wanted in 56 countries for a wide range of crimes. Everything from extortion stemming from unreasonable licensing agreements, to the now familiar chucking-folks-out-the-windows routine used to discourage competitors.

Sydney hospital officials say that the boys are making a good recovery and will be released by the end of the next week.

Signed Linux = Hacked Xbox

[Gray]

I'm somewhat impressed the author of the article got the skinny on the 007 trick, but he missed the real point.

For non-Xbox nerds, it works like this.

The XBox has internal flash for the BIOS.
To enable flashing, all just need to jumper one point (referred to as the D0 point) to ground.

The 007 trick is an buffer exploit that allows you to boot linux, once you've got linux running, assuming you jumpered D0, you can reflash your internal BIOS with a hacked version (which ignores keys). You'll never play Xbox Live, but you can now play pirate DVDs and copy games to your hard drive.

With only the buffer exploit, it's at least a challenge, but if MS was to release a signed Linux distro, the process would be trivial. Jumper D0, boot MS-Xlinux, FTP to Xbox, upload bios burner app, pow. Hacked Xbox.

It's *extreamly* unlikely MS would ever do this. These guys can release easier solutions for buffer overflow related methods, but nothing can have as much potential for evil as a signed linux distro.

RTFA

[Myuu]

"A signed Linux boot loader will not allow users to load pirated games, they say. However, the release of new Xbox exploits that the researchers claim to have developed to run Linux on the console could have the side effect of allowing piracy without the need to install a mod chip, something the hackers say they would like to avoid"

This is less terroristic than the replies and post would tend to make you believe.

what a coup

[scrytch]

wow, so all eight people who run linux on their xbox can put their soldering irons away. And still get blacklisted off XBox Live anyway.

Microsoft must be quivering with fear, really and truly.

pointless

[geoff lane]

If they really have a mod-less hack to allow unsigned code to boot on the xbox the correct thing to do is release it.

There is no way MS will allow Linux or any other OS to boot on xbox as that effectively makes the system open and then MS wouldn't make any money selling certificates.

Besides, MS will now play the terrorist card and you _know_ how well that plays in Washington.

Re:The land of the free

[EpsCylonB]

It's called blackmail, and it's illegal for a reason, asshole.

if the DMCA didn't exist then they wouldn't need to blackmail M$. If you want to prove that a law is unjust then this is eactly what you need, normaly law abiding people (as most geeks are I assume) having to resort to illegal methods to get things done.

Re:The land of the free

[goldspider]

"if the DMCA didn't exist then they wouldn't need to blackmail M$."

And if I were rich, I wouldn't have to rob a bank.

So does the fact that I'm not rich justify my robbing a bank?

Re:The land of the free

[EpsCylonB]

"if the DMCA didn't exist then they wouldn't need to blackmail M$."

And if I were rich, I wouldn't have to rob a bank.

So does the fact that I'm not rich justify my robbing a bank?

Hmmm, the issue is this, if someone buys an xbox then they should be able to do whatever they like with it since they own it. The DMCA places restrictions on what you can do, it inhibits your freedom.

The bank was never yours to begin with. Now go away and don't come back until you have found a better metaphor.

Re:The land of the free

[palewhitemale]

oh snap, he called out your metaphor.

Re:The land of the free

[CastrTroy]

if someone buys an xbox then they should be able to do whatever they like with it since they own it. The DMCA places restrictions on what you can do, it inhibits your freedom.

So, does that mean if i Buy a gun, I'm allowed to shoot someone with it. Or, if i buy some paper, and a fancy printer, i'm allowed to make counterfeit bills? Your logic is flawed.

Re:The land of the free

[hesiod]

> And if I were rich, I wouldn't have to rob a bank.

More like "If my bank didn't charge these fees, I would be rich, so I'm going to make you either give me the money back or I'll tell everyone how to break into your bank." Still not legal, but as an analogy, closer to the truth. The answer is still "then don't do business with them."

Re:Playing Nice With Vendor Notification?

[drinkypoo]

They can't release a patch because the flash update jumper is not connected. People couldn't flash their Xbox without opening it and voiding their warranty; Xboxes would have to be returned to service to be updated.

Of course, Microsoft can fix the problem in upcoming Xboxes, which will happen if they do release the exploit.

Re:Playing Nice With Vendor Notification?

[chundo]

You're missing the point. If Microsoft releases a signed bootloader, there is no need to set a jumper, because the XBox security subsystem will recognize it as a valid program.

-j

Re:Playing Nice With Vendor Notification?

[drinkypoo]

No, you're missing the point. I was talking specifically about how Microsoft cannot release a patch for this vulnerability to fix old Xboxen.

Next, setting a jumper in and of itself does not allow you to do anything other than flash the BIOS. You still need some kind of boot loader.

Finally, there is no incentive to Microsoft whatsoever to release a signed Linux loader. If they don't, then only current Xboxes are going to be able to run Linux without it. If they do, then all current and future Xboxes will

Re:Waste of Time

[Squidgee]

B. It's real, they are missing the big picutre. MS looses money on every XBox sold. If they signed a Linux Bootloader that would be an endorsment of a way to loose money and I wouldn't doubt it to be against their own EULA for uses of the XBox.

ENOUGH with the "MS loses money for every Xbox sold". So, if we the /. readers are to read you comment, then MS doesn't want to sell Xboxes? Ludicrous.

MS sells Xboxes at a loss so they can gain an upper hand over the rest of the Videogame market. They have much larger profit margins than the rest (Sony, Nintendo), so they can lower prices to such a level where the rest can't compete. Then they don't need to worry about lowering prices because they'll have beaten out the other consoles.

AND, for every Xbox bought MS loses less money. There fore they want more sold, not fewer.

The "Buy an Xbox and MS loses money" argument is stupid stupid stupid. MS wants you to buy and Xbox. They lose more money for every Xbox on the shelves than every one brought home.

Re:Waste of Time

[OrenWolf]

Almost.

You're forgetting the obvious.

Each XBOX is a loss to Microsoft. Supply channels mean there aren't a lot of em on store shelves anyway.

Microsoft's greatest fear? A situation where someone buys an XBOX, and *no* games. Ever.

Let's pull a number out of my ass and say the MS needs someone to buy 2 games to "break even" on an XBOX sale. If you buy an XBOX, Mod it, run Linux and/or pirated games exclusively on it, then all you've done is cost them money. They've lost money on you.

If modding the XBOX becomes trivial, the chance that less games will be bought, and that the magic number of required games will *not* be exceeded for them to be profitable grows. THAT is the issue.

It's not "Microsoft doesn't want you to buy an XBOX", its "Microsoft doesn't want you to buy an XBOX and *nothing else*".

Re:Waste of Time

[Pretzalzz]

C. After Microsoft refuses, and they release their exploits, and Microsoft inevitably accuses them of piracy, they can retort that they tried other avenues to run linux and were rebuffed and so this was their only option to enable a legitimate use of the XBox.

Re:Waste of Time

[mblase]

If they signed a Linux Bootloader that would be an endorsment of a way to loose money

This assumes that scads of people start buying XBoxen just to run Linux on it. Last I checked, the majority of people bought one primarily so they could play "Halo".

Or do you really think that all this is just so people can play "Tux Racer" on their HDTV sets?

Re:Waste of Time

[Xerithane]

The hack isnt fake. The hack is old and well known. It involves running the game 007, and using a doctored gamesave to reset the system and boot linux. Then you can flash the bios.

They said in the article that it was similar, but an easier approach -- but their system will allow piracy to go rampant on it, and they don't want to open that can of worms.

Just a bunch of loudmouth attention seeking idiots, making the legitimate hacking scene look like dirtbags.

They're just saying they want a real bootload

hrm...

[mikeee]

So if they do release a signed bootloader, does Microsoft get the $100,000?