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Rockstar Investigated Over GTA - Vice City 201

Posted by CowboyNeal from the operation-overkill dept.
Jubii writes "Seems the State of Florida is about to investigate Grand Theft Auto: Vice City for possibly violating state hate crime laws. This comes right after Rockstar and Take-Two issued an apology and a promise to remove offensive dialog found in the game. This could cause significant changes for 'mature' games in the future." Since Rockstar has already apologized and pledged to update the game, is it just me, or is the state of Florida only looking to line its pockets with some best-selling game profits? Update: 12/12 00:19 GMT by S : Haitian community leaders aren't satisfied either, saying "the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now."
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Rockstar Investigated Over GTA - Vice City More

Rockstar Investigated Over GTA - Vice City

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  • So frecking useless! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:31PM (#7696008)
    Should car companies sue Rockstar because GTA and VC take well-known cars, give them a different game, then allow players to bash them up in the streets? Should gun makers sue Rockstar for giving them a bad image?

    When I played VC, I *never* once thought, "hey, those haitians, they're pretty bloodthursty!" And you wanna know why? Cuz it's a GAME, not a how-to guide or a travel brochure!

    • Re:So frecking useless! (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, but pimps and whores should sue Rockstar for giving them a bad image!

      • Re:So frecking useless! (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I didn't see any pimps in Vice City, but I sure ran over my share of whores (to get my money back of course).

    • Re:So frecking useless! (Score:5, Funny)

      by Draigon ( 172034 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @11:44PM (#7697508) Homepage
      Video games made me do shrooms and become a plumber. I can't be held responsible for my actions. This is America.
      • Dude, i like yer turn of phrase.... so much fresher than the "running around in darkened rooms listening to electronic music and eating magic pills" quote.....

        Is it an original?? if so can i steal it shamelesly to impress da ladies with?
      • After playing Super Mario Bros. I spent a significant portion of my childhood running around the house looking for gold coins. These games are teaching our kids to chase money! Don't even get me started on the aftermath of my bananna cannon rampage.

  • Hate crime (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:33PM (#7696022) Journal
    I thought the whole premise of the hate crime laws was that the offender had to be doing something else illegal that was motivated by hate, and that was the only way it skirted the 1st amendment.

    I guess all the people that say "slippery slope" is an invalid argument don't know much about governments or laws.

    • Re:Hate crime (Score:3, Interesting)

      by alan_dershowitz ( 586542 )
      Inciting people to violence against a particular ethnic group would be a hate crime, but "KILL ALL THE HAITIANS!" is a fictional utterance by a fictional character in a dramatic work of fiction. It is clearly protected speech. Florida is smoking crack.

      • Re:Hate crime (Score:5, Insightful)

        by cicatrix1 ( 123440 ) <cicatrix1&gmail,com> on Thursday December 11, 2003 @10:03PM (#7696849) Homepage
        Not to mention that the phrase is displayed out of context, since in the game "The Hatians" are a gang. It is clearly not referring to Hatians as a nation, culture, race, or a people in general.

        • Re:Hate crime (Score:1, Redundant)

          by BTWR ( 540147 )
          mod up! mod up! mod up!

        • Re:Hate crime (Score:2, Insightful)

          by superyooser ( 100462 )
          What a cop out.

          Kill the Jews! No, that's not racist. The Jews are a gang. I mean.. uh.. it's just some people we're calling "Jews", maybe not actually Jews. Err, okay they are, but it's just referring to some bad apples. Yeah, that's it.

          Kill the Africans! Death to Americans! Come on, that's evil. What's going through a game designer's mind when he names a gang after the people of a nation? Kill the Poles! Gas the Kurds! Just because the Haitians don't have a well-renowned history of being persecuted or

          • The issue isn't that they're a gang. It's that they're fictional characters in a fictional game where a fictional protagonist is taking fictional action. That should be enough to make the claims of advocating violence against Haitians simply ridiculous. I mean, I should be able to write a book where the main character happens to be a Vichy France collaborator without being attacked for inciting people to violence.

            Thre are a lot of other reasons that this should have been thrown out cited here (the chara

          • Re:Hate crime (Score:3, Informative)

            by Bazzargh ( 39195 )
            What was going through his mind was probably that this was a gang member from one minority group (Cubans) talking about a gang from another minority group. Unless street gangs have suddenly adopted a forward-thinking racial integration policy, they may well refer to each other like that.

            Here is the script [gamefaqs.com]. The "single line" most objected to is probably this one:

            UMBERTO: Hey, ladies. You know what I'm gonna do?
            UMBERTO: I'm gonna kill me a Haitian. And then?
            UMBERTO: And then I'm going to make love like a
          • speech that explicitly encourages genocide probably should be illegal.

            1. I disagree.

            2. This wasn't speech designed to encourage genocide, it was speech from fictional character(s) designed to make you kill members of a gang of Haitians.

            Was it stupid for them to have something like that in the game? Probably. Was it a crime, should it be illegal? No-fucking-way.

      • Re:Hate crime (Score:2, Insightful)

        by iocat ( 572367 )
        Rockstar's only mistake was apologizing in the first place, IMHO! They made this controversial and offensive (but oh-so-fun) game. It's rated M. There are no toys based on it. It's, as the parent notes, a dramatic work of fiction. No apologies necessary! If you don't like, don't buy it, don't recommend it, and don't talk about it.

        It's like the Sopranos. If you're ethnically Italian, as I am, and it offends you (which I don't understand, since the show obviously doesn't represent the life of most Americans

    • Re:Hate crime (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:20PM (#7696474) Homepage Journal
      you know what? i wish more people just watched southpark and shutted the hell up. the hate crime episode in this case particular.

      it's not just about it being a funny show.. it's the social commentary that makes it great.

      anyways, how long has the game been on the shelves? hmm? a freakking long time perhaps hmm? somebody fishing for extra points somewhere hmm? being kyle's mum hmm?

      it's largely a parody of stereotypes anyways(the game).
    • This is exactly the reason why companies NEVER, EVER admit any wrong-doing. Once you say "ok, I see your point, and will correct the problem", you open yourself up to all kinds of liability.

      Now, because Rockstar did something nice for them, they are getting shafted. They would have been better off telling them to go fly a kite (or at least lighten up).

  • What games need... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HolyCoitus ( 658601 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:34PM (#7696035)
    Is a strong arm militant group to bribe the government officials like the RIAA and MPAA. I can't even begin to think of all the racial, sexist, and otherwise hateful things I've heard in music or in movies and GTA gets hit on something completely stupid? I'm serious though. Video games are just as legitimate a form of expression and entertainment as movies and music. Why isn't it treated as such?

    • What we don't need... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by plastid ( 535330 )
      ...is yet another *AA telling us what criminals we are.
    • Video games are just as legitimate a form of expression and entertainment as movies and music.

      What do you mean? No videogame has yet to touch the delicate artistic expressionism found in the simple lines "F---, F---, F--- the Po-lice." Or Eminem's heartfelt ballads to killing his wife in front of his daughter. Or for that matter, Eminem's hearfelt ballads to murdering fags. Such obviously worthwile expression of the human sexual condition is worthy of the protection of the law. This television game,
    • Well, there is this . . .

      http://www.siia.net/

      Do they count?

  • What Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:35PM (#7696036)
    That GTA:VC is a generally offensive game, yet they want Rockstar to remove one relatively innocent line? It's ridiculous, because it's a game. Rockstar isn't advocating killing Haitians. They aren't encouraging people to go on killing sprees to make their own criminal empire either. It's a freaking game, a work of fiction.

    • Re:What Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by meta-monkey ( 321000 ) * on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:41PM (#7696664) Journal
      Yes, it's amazing isn't it? They're not demanding they remove the violence or the killing. It's perfectly okay to run people over on the streets, or shoot them repeatedly. However, God (oops...can I say that?) forbid they should say something bad about Haitians. I mean, that's just unforgivable.
  • "To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."

    It's FICTION, and thats protected speech. No one was telling people to kill Haitians! IT IS A V-I-D-E-O G-A-M-E.

    I am losing more faith in the elected officials of Florida. Keep this moron away from butterfly ballots.

    • Re:Dear Delray... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by El ( 94934 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:48PM (#7696158)
      Remember, if you advocate killing cops in a Rap song, that's protected free speech! But if you advocate killing a particular group of people in a videogame, that has to be against the law! (Of course, I'm sure these same people would probably like to make offensive songs and movies illegal too, but unfortunately the record and motion picture industries have more powerful lobbying groups.)
      • Didn't 2 Live crew get arrested for obscenity in Broward County in Florida? It seems like Florida has a general disrespect for Free Speech in the arts.

        • Re:Dear Delray... (Score:5, Funny)

          by buffer-overflowed ( 588867 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:37PM (#7696630) Journal
          Yea, we should really kick Florida out of the union.

          The dead vote there, they can't hold a proper election, they don't seem to comprehend what free speech is... I mean the list goes on and on.

          We're watching you Florida, one more screw up, and your phallic landmass is out!
          • I'm a current resident of florida, and a proud owner of Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City. I never once felt the desire to carry out any acts of violence at a particular ethnic group after playing the GTA series.

            What is so special about that game is that it makes fun of EVERYONE equally, there is no one safe from the dark humor of the game's authors.

            I think in Florida you will find an extremly large difference of opinion depending on the age group, and between Orlando / Tampa / Miami.

            A lot of the
          • Or just give John F Hickory a digger and let him build his river..... ;)
    • I am losing more faith in the elected officials of Florida.

      That's a joke, right? The mob stays out of Miami because the elected officials have all the lucrative territory pretty much wrapped up. All they have to do to stay elected is keep the AARP card holders scared about black people carjacking them. Woo, negroes! (Vote incumbent.)
    • Not only is it fiction, it's funny. The Haitians in the game are a GANG. So when the Cubans say "Let's go kill some Haitians"...he's talking about the GANG.

      This is getting ridiciulous. Lousy whiners. They can't even get the CONTEXT right for the "offensive" phrase. JEEZ, this is SUCH a bunch of crap.

  • Research.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NegativeK ( 547688 ) <`moc.liamtoh' `ta' `neiraket'> on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:37PM (#7696055) Homepage
    How much have the people who are making these claims looked into the game? That game bashes pretty much every group out there. You have the religious right guy talking about the commy Reds and his statue/spaceship, a goth guy that goes outside when it rains or he needs milk, some happy woman who's just.. Disturbing, NPR like announcers who are money grubbing [edit].. And that's just from a radio station. So, if that game is guilty for hate crimes, it sure isn't guilty for discrimination, because it hates everyone. It's humor, guys. Get over your ego.

    Things like this make me doubt the future of the human race.

    • How much have the people who are making these claims looked into the game?

      The problem with this is that the kind of people who buy this kind of game, are not the same kind of people who take this sort of stand on racism and hate crimes.

    • Re:Research.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Naikrovek ( 667 ) <jjohnson@ps g . com> on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:03PM (#7696302)
      Things like this make me doubt the future of the human race.

      the future is clear to me - in 20 years no one will be able to say anything for fear that it will offend someone.

      currently you can't do/say anything that will offend someone, but what about the countless people that are not offended by an action? should we lower our society to suit the most sensitive and most irrational people, or should the majority win?

      well the majority isn't winning anymore when it comes to things like this. the feelings of one person now override the feelings of millions of others, and even that is based on someone's word - they SAY they're feelings were hurt. its a good thing people don't lie for money ... because then even the basis that someone's feelings are hurt could be labelled as a frivelous (sp?) lawsuit.

      I agree that hateful and slanderous remarks should be removed from our collective conscience, but is attacking video games the way to do it? if the collective conscience of america wasn't already thinking of such things then they would have never made it into the game - the game is the symptom of racial slurs, not the cause, you fucking prats.

      outside of the USA everyone makes fun of us Americans. do I care? no. should i? no. if someone makes an anti-america game do i give a flying patootie? hell no - its just a damn game.

      so i say bring it on. hey foreigners, make lots of games that poke fun at americans: "hey, you gonna eat that untouched entire large super-supreme pizza," "now just wait a minizzle," "i'm 28 and i can't do long division anymore," "i've never voted, voting doesn't matter!!" and various other stupid (yet all too common) american sayings should be included. will we care? fuck no. we'll think its funny. I will anyway.

      Haiti: take it as the joke its meant to be, not as the money grubbing, attention-seeking opportunity you seem to think it is. If you get offended you are weak. why don't you get offended that Haitian language support was left entirely out of perl 5.8? oh wait, i know: no money to be won.

      • We don't have to wait 20 years for that... it's here today. You don't even have to say that you personally are offended. Just mention that someone might be offended, and you can probably get just about anyone in big trouble for almost anything they say.

        Personally, I am offended by all the hypersensitivity and political correctness (i.e. thought control) we have allowed ourselves to be subjected to. But does anyone care if I, a white American male, am offended by that? Nope.

  • Oversensitivity and Greed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mark_MF-WN ( 678030 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @08:41PM (#7696085)

    Video game developers are just seen as an easy target because they don't have the massive financial backing of the MPAA or RIAA (movies and music routinely have far more offensive content).

    The supposed Haitian community leaders (9 times out of 10, "community leaders" are just obnoxious individuals who decide that they speak for everyone else) are simple using this as a chance to grab some attention at Rockstar's expense.

    The state of Florida is just going after the cash, because they know that video games don't have enough popular esteem yet among those with power to be well-defended.

    I'm going to go out and buy GTA3, just to spite them.

    • I'm not entirely sure why the above was modded as flamebait. Paragraph by paragraph, I agreed.

      Videogames are easier targets than movies or music because, by and large, the developers don't have as much money and they're viewed as 'bad' forms of entertainment. Much like when speaking against pornography, it's an easy publicity move to take the moral high road against videogames. That isn't to dismiss what affect videogames may (and probably do) have on the players. I know I get wired after a long session of
  • this has to be... quite possibly... the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. I mean common... they take the line completely out of context, and then bitch and moan over it. hey, im part italian... how about all the games/movies that portray italians as mobsters... should i rage.. NO. Its fiction... a "game"... not real. This is just another example of stupid people following other stupid people who have nothing better to do.
  • So far, the results of the poll are a little under the numbers. Let's set the vote right!

    Should Grand Theft Auto Vice City be pulled from the shelves?

    Yes. It is racist and offensive. 20.00% 52
    No. It's just a game. 21.54% 56
    No. If you're offended, just don't buy it. 58.46% 152
  • Before they investigate a game, they should read some studies themselves to see that a game alone won't cause someone to kill.

    And where are these idiots when we see people killing Mexicans, blacks, whites, Russians, Arabs etc in movies, books and television? Are they not possible hate crimes by the definition these idiots will use to try and change/stop production of GTA:VC? You can't change rules or laws, and introduce made-up ones, just to suit your effort to garner a few votes from fanatical parents.
  • So if this would possibly fall under hate crime legislation, what would become of games like RtCW, where in multiplayer you can play on a team that killed a lot more people than any organized crime group, real or fictional. (Note: unlike the GTA Capos, the Nazis *actually* killed people, too) Would the makers of movies like American History X be similarly liable, since there were characters that encouraged hateful activity?

    You know, characters in Fight Club really seemed to suggest that destroying skysc

    • what would become of games like RtCW, where in multiplayer you can play on a team that killed a lot more people than any organized crime group, real or fictional.

      Actually, Joseph Stalin killed over twice as many people as Hitler did, but Stalin didn't descriminate. He rounded up millions of his own people during his "purges", labeling them traitors, and sent them to gulag (Siberian labor camps), including heros of the siege of Stalingrad who were getting too popular for their own good.

  • Crossing the Line (Score:2, Insightful)

    by illuminata ( 668963 )
    I've made comments about this situation in the last thread, so I'll try not to repeat too much.

    I think that this effects much more than M-rated games now that the State of Florida is getting involved. When Rockstar and Take Two self-censored, I didn't like it, but it was their decision. However, to use political muscle to try to censor the comment that the Haitian group misinterpreted is fascism. The Florida Attorney General should be removed. No matter how you slice it, it's protected speech. Not to menti
    • The Florida Attorney General should be removed. No matter how you slice it, it's protected speech.

      Correct me if I'm wrong (which I know someone will), but wasn't there a big stink about six to ten months ago when some judge, in his infinite wisdom, declared video games not to be protected speech?
      • Well, I checked in to what you said because it did ring a bell somewhat, and you're not wrong. But that ruling was overturned.

        In short, St. Louis County tried to limit the access of mature games to children, won its initial case, but had it overturned. Here's [cnn.com] more information.
  • In a continuation of my rant about the idiots that throw up their arms about computer games, I pose this question to the State of Florida and other like-minded idiots:

    Since GTA:VC hit the shelves, how much of an increase in Hatian murders has occured? How much of an increase in Cuban murders has occured? And how many of all the Hatian/Cuban murders in the period since GTA:VC was released are not related to gang crime between existing rival gangs?

    Answer me that, showing me a significant increase that can

    • along those lines (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 )
      No offense to Haitians or anyone else, but WTF took them so long to get pissed off and organized about this game? "Blah blah blah... its to late, they already made their money." Yea, why weren't you protesting a year ago when it would have been easier to resolve the situation? Anyone think Florida would be thinking about hate crime laws if this whole brewhaha happened a month after the game was released?
  • What freedom of speech protections apply to this? Does Take2 have to censor thier creative work becuase certain groups take offense to that work?

    Im definetly not advocating discrimination, but it is a part of human nature. Do we have to ignore it to remain politcally correct? The same goes for certain words that are now considered taboo. But what if someone was writing a book with a character who might use those words? Do they have to censor themselves?

    IMHO politcal correctness has sheilded the real issue
  • "To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."

    Ok, lets replace the line with "kill the bastards" instead of "kill the haitians" - this makes no difference to the context. In that case, the 'particular group of people' we are being told to kill are SPECIFICALLY the X number of haitian characters shooting at us, IN THE GAME.

    How this could possibly be construed as a hate crime is beyond me. Su

  • I'm sorry, what are they supposed to do with the games on the shelves now? Release magic DVD fairies that will change the dialogue to less offensive dialogue?

    What this amounts to is that the censor-happy idiots weren't able to block the game because fo the sex and violence like they wanted to, and so they had to resort to getting it on a crap charge like this. /shrug

    The censors never win in the long run.
    • I think what they (those that are offended) want, is for Rockstar to recall and drop the title from production.

      I am not saying that this is even a realistic option, but honestly I don't see any way to appease the offended mob at this point. A lot of people have been against GTA3 from day one and this out of context hate thing is just a cause to champion before the neutral public. I think that the anti-"Kilographic" (those are quotes of disdain BTW) games people are just drooling over the marketing potentia
      • What they, and most other groups of this type, is for Rockstar to 'donate' to them to show how sorry they are for what the did.

        It is all about money.
        • Maybe, but I think it is more about egos. Some people don't like other people that don't agree with them. If they inflict harm on Rockstar, then they feel good about themselves, and their little special interest group now has power (if the world bends once it will bend again sort of thing). Money may play into it eventually, but the real struggle here is power. Look at prohibition in the U.S. Most of the protesters and common citizens campaigning and crusading against liquor did not stand to gain any moneta
    • Exactly what I was thinking.

      It's impossible to alter the games that have already been sold, or at least the PS2 versions. An XBox patch might be possible, and a patch for the PC versions is almost a certainty. Still...what do they do with the PS2 versions?

      The hard drive hasn't been released yet, so there appear to be only two viable options. Either try to destroy all existing copies of the game and replace them at no cost, which would cost a huge amount of money, or find some way to alter the game vi

  • I know it's just a game and all, but come on. I'd think it would be clear by now that making negative race related comments in any media is going to get you into trouble. It's a hard lesson for Rockstar, but they'll recover from it. They make great games, and I'm sure they're kicking themselves now for their lack of foresight.

  • should be protected (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pretzel_logic ( 576231 ) * <andy.shookNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:11PM (#7696400)
    I am not a lawyer, I am a programmer. That said IMHO, If I was the game manufacturer I would simply hide behind freedom of speech and freedom of press.

    It seems that our local governments have forgotten that freedom is the key. The judge should remind them of this and toss it out of court.

    If I want to make a product, and there is a market for the product, I should be able to sell it on the market. It should be up to the retailers to decide if they want to put it on the shelf.

    The leftist or rightist or whatevers will always be yelling about right and wrong, but thats their opinion and they are allowed to say it.

    The product is already listed as an adult game. For end users that are responsible enough to understand the game is fiction.

    "kill the Haitians" is simply a line in the plot of a fictional game. If they started a kill the Haitians advertising campaign available to the public eye, thats different.

    ..don't tread on me..
    • Yeah, but free speech is not unlimited. For example incitement to racial hatred or violence is usually illegal.

      Still, in this case I think it's pretty stupid. You're role-playing a gangster. Going around gratuitously killing lots of people is what gangsters do. I mean you can equal well argue that the game promotes dangerous driving or mowing down pedestrians. The cartoon level of violence that the game portrays is hardly different, probably far less graphic than reading a book. And it's not as if Haitians

      • Re:should be protected (Score:3, Interesting)

        by eht ( 8912 )
        Quick google search turned up Wired News:Games Elevate Hate to Next Level [wired.com], hate crime games have been around for quite some time, most don't make enough money to interest lawyers and groups that are playing the "victim" card, but are actually playing the "I want money" card.

    • "kill the Haitians" is simply a line in the plot of a fictional game. If they started a kill the Haitians advertising campaign available to the public eye, thats different.

      You think the outcry would be any different if Rockstar had decided to name the gang "Mexicans" or "Southern Hicks"?

      This should suprise no one... the lawsuit may not have a leg to stand on, but it makes you wonder if there isn't a guy a rockstar who hates people from Haiti and is responsible for this whole thing.

  • From now on.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by lpontiac ( 173839 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:40PM (#7696659)
    .. I am making fun of this ethnic group at every opportunity.

    They weren't targeted specifically in the game. The game leveraged and/or poked fun at a plethora of stereotypes. They need to get the fuck over it.
    • I say Rockstar should replace the entire mission with a new one: a pro-censorship group is in town... KILL 'EM ALL !!!
    • "Kill the Haitians" is specific. You are now planning to target "Haitians" specifically, because of a complaint against a publisher by someone in Florida. GTA is a fun way to release agressions and repressed hatred against many kinds of fictional people, in your home where it doesn't insult anyone. Now you're letting it influence your behavior towards other real people, who you haven't even met. Get your head together, lest you become a parody of the kind of person the censors usually just have to invent.

  • Rockstar's Mistake (Score:5, Insightful)

    by setik ( 679643 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:50PM (#7696733) Homepage
    In my opinion, I think the point at which Rockstar lost was the instant they decided to issue a statement apologizing to the Haitian community, they basically said "we are wrong, everyone feel free to sue us now, because we admit defeat".

    Rockstar should have done the right thing for all games everywhere and fought this out in court as a free speech issue, which it clearly is.

    Wont be long till we see other developers and publishers get sued, or worst of all banned or censored industry wide. If you though games were getting too many sequels and relying too much on franchise IP because publishers were not will to take risks, I can only imagine how much harder it will be to make original games with realistic content.

  • Rockstar announcement (Score:3, Funny)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @09:58PM (#7696798) Homepage Journal
    In order to satisfy the demands of the florida haitian community, Rockstar has degun devellopment in a time machine that will be used to go back in time in order to remove offensive content from their game.

    The machine will then be used to back to the paleozoic era and Rockstar employees will then wipe out all life on earth as we know it, applying the only possible way to never offend anyone ever again.

  • Speaking of prejudice... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jermyjerm ( 705338 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @10:07PM (#7696878) Homepage
    From a Miami Herald story [montereyherald.com] about the issue:

    "American society is racist, even though there are antiracist laws," Lesly Voltaire, minister for Haitians living abroad, told The Herald. "It's based on a formerly slave-owning society, which has left its mark, and there are people who think they can make money on that racism."

    And it's not offensive and prejudicial when a government official from another country makes a judgement on an entire society based on a practice abolished over 100 years ago?

    The world makes me so mad, and this issue is just idiotic.
  • "the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now."

    I can see eBay auctions now:
    -- BANNED uncensored GTA game!
    -- rare GTA original version, low re$erve!
    -- HOT GTA GAME recalled InSuLtInG FUNNY!

    There is a ton of tongue-in-cheek ethnic humor in that game. Jaysus Christ on a jumped-up, chariot driven crutch --- will Comedy Central be the next target?!

  • Two Words (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mr.Coffee ( 168480 ) * <rhysfeezled@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Thursday December 11, 2003 @10:09PM (#7696895) Homepage
    Free Speech.

    I know this will result in a discussion of "is it ok to make potentially racist material available to children?" but IMHO, that's where parenting comes in.
  • I would understand if Haitians were the only ethnic group singled out for mindless killing, but honestly....at a point in the game, you actually -work- for the Haitians, specifically for the purpose of killing the rival Cubans. At other points in the game, you kill Italians, French, Colombians, hell, I think I even killed some seagulls. If one took killing people out (and don't whine about ethnicity - in case it's not obvious, -everyone- is part of some ethnicity), you'd have.....nothing. And if you have a

  • Manufacturers of Scrabble are next (Score:5, Funny)

    by Andy_R ( 114137 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @10:28PM (#7697035) Homepage Journal
    "Giving low point scores to all the vowels is clearly racist" said Aiiiaoa Oaoaiuuii for the Hawaiian state prosecutor's office.

    World Scrabble champion Hzbrgzny Zgknyskqjz of Poland is rumoured to be a key witness for the defence at the trial.
  • The (most likely) goal of the apology is to quell criticism that might adversely affect the sales of their games, current and future.

    If the apology does not accomplish that goal, perhaps they should now retract it. Use the resulting publicity to take a stand for free speech and gain some noteriety.

    Just a thought. I haven't done a full analysis, I really can't without intimate knowledge about Rockstar etc., but it's worth thinking about. If the recipients aren't going to be gracious about it, perhaps it's

  • Knee-jerks (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Thursday December 11, 2003 @10:31PM (#7697060) Homepage Journal
    "To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."

    Well, if a game were to attempt to motivate people to commit genocide, then yes, I'd agree, it probably violates some law. The problem is, even out of context, "kill the Haitians" doesn't imply killing a group of people from a particular community. It implies killing specific people, i.e. a gang. Since the Haitians that the line referred to was in reference to that gang, it's even harder to bend the facts in order to support the idea that Vice City is anti-Haitian.

    Frankly, this whole fiasco is doing more to make people dislike the Haitian Community than anything Vice City did. Nobody likes misunderstanding to be used for frivilous lawsuits and the like.
    • I just think it's funny to read it deliberately mis-pronounced:

      Hate-ians.

      Of course you have to kill them, they hate you! (Or, they hate blokes from Scotland...)

  • did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now
    They won't be there for long!
  • "To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."

    Holy shit, it isn't telling you to kill the Haitians. It is telling your character, Tommy Vercetti, to kill all the Haitians. If you are unable to make that distinction you are either way too young to be playing it or you have probably already killed someone before touching this game and should be locked up.

    • And that goes for any games. I mean, Christ. Suppose you're playing Yoshi's Cookie. I mean, God forbid the instructions say that "Yoshi should eat cookies", because some idiot might, at least in a totally distorted reality, manage to interpret this as a mandate to eat cookies without stop in real life. Furthermore, this is clearly targetting the defenseless bulimia sufferers of the world.

      Sigh.

      You know, I really don't have feelings about most minority groups one way or the other. Except when crap like
  • And I thought I was the only one who's television told him to do things like that.
  • "The presence of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City on the shelves of national distributors and retailers ... continues to constitute a clear and present danger for Haitian nationals in the United States. Residents of Little Haiti (in Miami) have become like a sitting duck," Jean-Robert Lafortune of the Haitian-American Grassroots Coalition told Reuters on Thursday."

    So, apparently, all we need to do is just wait a bit, and the massive tidal wave of death, carnage, and destruction will wipe out every last Haitian
  • I am so sick and tired of the crap hate gets. Personally I don't think it's too much of a crime to hate. The government has no business telling me who I can hate or not. Hate is a natural part of human existance. Maybe unpleasant for some but no less unpleasant then driving through Los Angeles and seeing bumper stickers that say "Fuck You, this is Mexico now!" [libertyforall.net] Fact is this is America and it's our right to hate for any reason we choose. If I shoot someone then why not come after me for the crime of sho

    • Re:Enough of this! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 )
      Hate (alone) is not illegal. In fact, criticism of people based on race or whatnot is quite legal, First Amendment-protected speech (as long as you don't violate slander/libel laws, of course).

      Hate crimes refer to a specific class of crimes that are always illegal, but have punishments elevated by being classified as a hate crime.

      If you kill someone, you might be looking at, say, a second-degree murder charge. However, if it is found that you killed the other person because you hated the color of his sk
      • So the end result is that it's ok to punish people you don't like or agree with more harshly then another group for the same crime. In any case, Rockstar hasn't comitted any crimes so why is the state threatening them with punishments under the hate crime laws?
        • In any case, Rockstar hasn't comitted any crimes so why is the state threatening them with punishments under the hate crime laws?

          It isn't. Some random commissioner (i.e. not important and probably trying to win Haitian votes) "forwarded information on the game to a friend at the Attorney General's office". It's awfully unlikely that the state would go for this case.

          IIRC, "inciting to violence" is illegal, which they might try. I'm not really familiar with crimes that fall under it, but I suspect that
      • The law ought not to afford special protection for certain people or groups of people. That's really all hate crime legislation is (well, that and the beginning of prosecution for thoughtcrime, of course :-)

        Who's to determine who should get special protection? When they start prosecuting people for hate crimes committed against men, white people, Christians, and heterosexuals, then maybe my attitude toward hate crime legislation will change. But of course, if hate crimes are prosecuted equally when comm
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Replacement dialog? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mister Cookies ( 718635 ) on Friday December 12, 2003 @01:02AM (#7697980)
    Now that Rockstar has caved and announced that the dialog will be removed, what will it be replaced with? I mean, you can't just dump the player into a situation with no objective, that was the purpose of the phrase in question in the first place. In today's America, there is no proper solution. SOMEONE would find SOMETHING wrong with some little bit of something totally trivial, as they have here. Add in a bit of whining and complaining to some sympathetic politician, and nothing is safe.
  • I would pay more retail if it meant it went into some kind of defense slush fund just for these kinds of suits at this level/quality game.

    If they asked for donations for a defense fund for this game I would put up some money, as very rare an occasion as that would be for me.

    If we don't pay to support the games we like, and want to see more of, the litigation and new laws will bog them down and keep developers away. A few victorys with a 10$/game defense fund for the next Manhunt could go a long way tword
  • Aren't technically Rockstars property. They now belong to the retailer, so unless Rockstar caves even more and takes them all back tough titty.

    I'll be pissed if their next patch for the pc version alters the game. I realize I can always uninstall and play it fresh, they can't change the cd, but I bought the game last spring and understand it how its meant to be understood.
  • Maybe these Haitian community 'leaders' should stop making a big deal over one out of context phrase in a silly video game, and start concerning themselves with, oh, I dunno, Haiti. It's one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere, it lacks food and drinking water, and their government is riddled with corruption. And never mind the 300,000+ children that are virtually sold into slavery in Haiti, known as 'Restavecs'. I find it ironic that they refer to slavery here, which was abolished over a
  • ... now I'm even more sympathetic to the sentiment of the game's Cubans!

    So the Haitians are offended by a line in the game about killing Haitians? You know what? I'm offended that the god damned Haitians try to kill me in the game!

  • From the article :
    "To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."

    In other news EA Games today announced that to prevent future lawsuits they will not ask players to "kill Germans" in the upcomming sequel to their Medal of Honour WWII first person shooter. The sequel has now been renamed to Medal of Honour, Let's all live together in peace.

  • If I was Rockstar, I'd have a press conference and in classic Johnny Cash style flip them the bird.

    This is all a joke. It will fade away and be long forgotten. It's clearly protected under free speech (and last time I checked, even "race hating" speech is free.) Besides, it's a video game, with fictious characters/situations/stories.

    Blah.

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