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Portables (Games) Technology

Sony PSP/Nintendo DS Opinion Piece 50

Posted by Zonk from the two-new-players-at-an-already-crowded-table dept.
Mr Nash writes "The Armchair Empire has posted a lengthy op-ed about Sony's PSP and Nintendo's Dual Screen where the writer comes to the conclusion that "the market just doesn't appear to be ready for a pair of new handhelds to step onto the scene."
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Sony PSP/Nintendo DS Opinion Piece More

Sony PSP/Nintendo DS Opinion Piece

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  • Good article, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zangief ( 461457 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @09:53AM (#10513602) Homepage Journal
    Old news for the fans who have been tracking down those devices for a long time.

    (I would like an explanation about how a brilliant Super Mario 64 port is a bad thing.)

    When sony will spill the beans about the psp price? Battery life was already kicked into the developers yard, so I expect that most games will have small load times before gameplay (2-10 seconds) so they can put on the game box "Expected battery life: 3 hours".

    Interesting times.

    • Re:Good article, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zapman ( 2662 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:15AM (#10513824)
      I agree about the old news bit. I also think the author is being quite harsh on Nintendo. Every one has been scoffing at their GBA->GameCube linking as just a profit scheme. It is a profit scheme, but there are some huge advantages to it for the gamer as well... just take a look at FF:Chrystal Chronicals.

      The point of this is that Nintendo had the guts to do something different, and allowed people (like Square) to be creative. The DS with it's dual screen and stylus will be the same. It's a change of paradigm... it allows new controls, and new interfaces.

      If you want something cool, take a look at the Metroid game for the DS. It's a true FPS for a hand held. And since the DS does wireless, you just have to walk up to someone else with a DS, and you can play head to head (up to 4 player IIRC). No wires, no funky cables, just play.

      Who knows what new ideas will come out of it?
      • It would really be nice if Nintendo made an effort to push their cool-toy technology on their developers. You give the example of the GBA, Gamecube link-up. Nintendo should make a serious effort to start implementing this in as many games as possible. I just bought Madden. That and most other sports games are just begging for the GBA to be used as your own secret playbook. Obviously connectivity wasn't included because it's cheaper for EA to just port the PS2 version as is (removing stuff if necessary)

  • The article is right! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by koi88 ( 640490 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:10AM (#10513783)
    It's like the iPod. The iPod is doomed.
    People are just not ready to spend hundreds of dollars for a portable music player when they can just as well listen to the music at home.
    Or they use their MD-Player or Discman the bought just a few years ago.

    Nobody will buy another music player.
    • No, it's more akin to asking people to buy the 60 gig iPod model (i.e. the DS or PSP) when they're already happy with their perfectly working 20 gig model (the GBA).

      • Re:The article is right! (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Except the DS holds a heck of a lot more incentive to upgrade over GBA SP than a 60 GB iPod does over a 20 GB model. The DS doesn't render the GBA completely obsolete, and it can do a whole lot of things the GBA can't. Their capabilities overlap, but those of the GBA are not merely a subset of those of the DS.

        The analogy to iPods doesn't fit very well because of this. A 60 GB iPod can do everything a 20 GB model can.

  • Market not ready? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:19AM (#10513864)
    I wouldn't be so sure that the market isn't ready for new portable gaming devices. The "desktop" console market has been operating on a much faster cycle than the handheld market. Handhelds are traditionally cheaper and have more of a tradition of backwards compatibility, so there's no reason why consumers can't be persuaded to buy a new one every couple of years. The gameboy was supreme for years, Nintendo almost certainly hoped that the GBA could manage a similar feat. After all, they hadn't had an even vaguely serious challenge to their monopoly in this market since the Game Gear, over a decade ago, and even that was seen off quite easily.

    However, all that has changed. The N-Gage was a flop in terms of sales, games and design, but it did drive up technical expectations of consoles. Once Sony started sniffing around the market, Nintendo didn't really have much choice but to offer a new device. So far, we've mostly been hearing the Nintendo fanboys ranting about how the DS will see off the PSP and Nintendo will remain supreme. In the very short term future, this might be true.

    However...

    Sony (and even Nokia) have deeper pockets than Nintendo. If they want to make a serious assault on the market, they can afford to do so over a period of several years. They can afford to research, develop and release a new product every couple of years. Indeed, Nokia have already announced their intention to continue to refine and enhance the N-Gage. If Nintendo don't want to be seen to be left behind in the eyes of the average consumer, they have to try and keep up. Their old strategy of putting out a winner and then milking it for years and years just won't work. This, I'm sure, is how Sony are hoping to take over the market from Nintendo. On the basis of what happened in the "desktop" console market, I think they'll eventually succeed.

    • Re:Market not ready? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dogbowl ( 75870 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:24AM (#10513910) Homepage
      I think you underestimate how deep Nintendo's pockets are.
      and how thin Sony's profits have been.

      Haven't had a challenge in the handheld market since the game gear? I can name five off the top of my head, all from large well established companies.

      My guess is that you're posting somewhere from Europe, where Nintendo doesn't have a strong presence. Crack open their financials, take a look at the world market. These guys are not hurting in any way, shape, or form.
      • and how thin Sony's profits have been.

        So thin, they've been non-existent for 2 years straight. Sony Corp., as a whole, has seen finacial losses, overall, for the past two fiscal years. The Games Division (PlayStation) was about the only thing profitable in the whole company, but not profitable enough to keep the rest of the company out of the red.

        And, Sony saw a loss on the Games Division recently as well, thanks to lower than expected PS2 and PS2 game sales.

        Thin profits isn't really the right wor

    • In addition to the fact that Nintendo is rolling in more money that you realize...
      What makes you think a rich company hammering out new products every few minutes is something that would actually take away sales from a company that sticks to their products? Microsoft is being criticized by many for releasing their new product so soon after the previous one, already. Long product cycles are a good thing.

      Sometimes the quality of your people is far more important than the quantity or equipment.
      • Microsoft is being criticized by many for releasing their new product so soon after the previous one, already. Long product cycles are a good thing.

        Well, I guess we shouldn't complain about Longhorn then...

  • DS PSP DOA? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by slumpy ( 304072 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:29AM (#10513950) Homepage
    The article had very little positive things to say about either side, it's almost as if the author worked on the N-Gage and was bitter...

    Nintendo has said they want the DS to be a third pillar in gaming, with GCube and GBA as the other two. And the holy trinity series makes sense, or at least helps to explain they're not trying to do away with the GBA.

    The PSP on the other hand has been pushed back a year....11/05 so Sony can work on the battery life. Perhaps the market will be ready then.
    • Nintendo has said they want the DS to be a third pillar in gaming, with GCube and GBA as the other two. And the holy trinity series makes sense, or at least helps to explain they're not trying to do away with the GBA.
      The "holy trinity" idea is nothing new for Nintendo. Back in 1995 they tried to expand into a third gaming unit with the Virtual Boy, and although we all know how that ended, I think there's still room in the market for a third pillar of a game system.

      • Re:DS PSP DOA? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by n0wak ( 631202 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @11:16AM (#10514349) Homepage Journal
        > I think there's still room in the market for a third pillar of a game system.

        There already is a "third pillar of gaming" blossoming: mobile gaming. Especially in Asia. It's not as big here, as our phones are years behind, but it is getting huge in Japan and growing in Europe and all the major game developers are jumping on board (like Square-Enix, and EA).
    • How can the GBA serve as a second pillar when the DS clearly has designs to take over its position? I mean, if the DS isn't the successor to the GBA, can you rightly call it backwards-compatible with GBA games?

      • Re:DS PSP DOA? (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        The DS is more like partially sideways compatible with the GBA. I say partially because only single-player features will work on the DS. I say sideways because Nintendo has vowed to continue support for the GBA. If the DS were the GBA's "true" successor, they'd have plans to begin phasing out GBA hardware and, to a lesser extent, software. Not to mention the fact that they'd have made the DS fully compatible with the GBA. The compatibility with the GBA that they are including, in my opinion, is just to
    • "Nintendo has said they want the DS to be a third pillar in gaming, with GCube and GBA as the other two."

      So they are trying to create the Triforce? I thought Zelda was just a game!
    • The PSP on the other hand has been pushed back a year....11/05 so Sony can work on the battery life. Perhaps the market will be ready then.

      Correction: The PSP has been rumored to be delayed. Sony maintains [slashdot.org] that the console is on track for a Christmas 2004 release in Japan. Whether or not that's true, however, is still up for conjecture.
    • Great, I've been looking for a portable version of this game!

      Oh, wait - that wasn't what you meant. :(

  • Portable audio comparisons are pointless (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fr0dicus ( 641320 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:34AM (#10513992) Journal
    Just because it's an electronic gadget that fits in your pocket does not mean that comparison is in any way valid. The whole point with the success of portable audio is that you can use it while doing something else. It's worth the effort because you can use it when you want.

    Video gadgets require attention, and the price of low battery life or just plain high price leads to failure to adopt or abandonment. The Gameboy established itself because it had excellent battery life and a low price. I can't see these doing much of either.

  • Analysis seems flaky (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Canthros ( 5769 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @10:48AM (#10514145)
    Despite the hue and cry from certain parties, the U. S. economy is in pretty fair shape and still getting better. It's not dotcom-bubble level, but it's not bad. It was worse when the SP was released.

    That said, I think his criticisms of both systems are pretty well on the mark, but I'm still confident that the DS will perform sufficiently to stick around. It has a large and growing library of games stretching back to the original GameBoy, in addition to the titles planned for exclusively for it. Remakes can be a bit of a drag, but remakes of good games are still good games, and many of today's gamers did not grow up with an NES. If Square decides to release their FFIII remake stateside finally, it will be a brand-new game, practically speaking, for the U. S. market.

    What looks, to me, like a more interesting parallel is between the original GameBoy and the Lynx, TurboGrafx, Game Gear, and other portable consoles of the early to mid nineties. The GameBoy has consistently beaten its competitors by being good enough for a lower price. Despite all the other feaures of the PSP, I suspect that's what will happen here, too.
  • "the market just doesn't appear to be ready for a pair of new handhelds to step onto the scene."

    I agree completely. The market is not ready for a pair of new handhelds. Therefore the most logical conclusion is that one of them will die out.

  • Lowering the bar for slashdotters everywhere (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ribond ( 149811 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @01:51PM (#10515734) Journal
    How did this random website make news offering a one-trick-pony review of this hardware? It's crap. Here's why.

    To hit the high points, lets start with his conclusion.

    At this point, the market just doesn't appear to be ready for a pair of new handhelds to step onto the scene.
    The latest Nintendo handheld platform (the Gameboy Advance) launched in 2000 (the SP is just prettier, not more functional -- it's the same device). Clinton was President, some parts of the world still liked Americans... and we were typing away on piii 600s, with 64mb of ram. In what way are we not ready to move on? Of course we're ready for a new platform, and maybe even a new idea or two (it's about damn time I had a real FPS in my pocket, and fragged others wirelessly). I'm a married man with a kid, I don't have too much cash to spare... but I have a GBA, a GBA SP and I'll get myself a Nintendo DS when it comes out (I'd consider the Sony, but it is beyond my price range).

    That's the big picture. Some smaller points:
    Sony:
    -he's only got 2 complaints about the PSP:
    One: Battery life: Yes. But batteries get better and for all we know they'll offer a fuel-cell pack for this thing in a years time. I give Sony props for putting out the polygons.
    Two: Price: He's got a point, it's expensive. But people by iPods and I think they're crazy.

    Nintendo:
    -His arguments against the DS make even less sense.
    One: "remakes aren't innovative". New software reshaped to take advantage of a new platform using new features... the only thing that's still around is the Mario face on the box.
    Two: The GBA is out there and it's cheap. F3@r this? Really? You have a gi-mungous installed base with compatible games and you're offering updates for those legacy titles when used on the new H/W (pokemon gba titles can d/l updates at the new movie, in the DS)... this is market leverage, not a liability.

    I guess this guy gets recognized for maintaining his luddite-ish "I-hate-new-things" tone for the entire article, but this just means he's taken a stand, not that he's thought it through.

    • The latest Nintendo handheld platform (the Gameboy Advance) launched in 2000 (the SP is just prettier, not more functional -- it's the same device).

      Right. If you consider the ability to view the screen to be prettiness, and not functionality.

      (Just saying.)
    • I agree with you, and I wanted to say I think the author is underestimating the flaws he points out in the PSP.

      The Game Boy has been around for a long time and (ignoring the Virtual Boy for a moment) Nintendo has basically made the only successful handheld machine. And if my memory serves me, it's essentially because of the two things the author pointed out as problems with the PSP: Battery life and price.

      The TurboExpress, Game Gear, Nomad, Lynx, probably even the Neo-Geo Pocket Color, and maybe others

    • "

      But batteries get better and for all we know they'll offer a fuel-cell pack for this thing in a years time."

      Actually, no. Batteries improve very slowly, much slower than computer technology. And fuel-cell technology will not arrive in time to save the PSP.

      The consideration he doesn't mention which I think is salient is durability. Sony hardware is crap (except for TVs). PS2s break down at an alarming rate and nobody is dropping them on the ground or stuffing them into knapsacks. Conversly, the GB

  • Analysis of older gamers is lacking. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by muel ( 132794 ) on Wednesday October 13, 2004 @01:58PM (#10515798)
    This article doesn't pay attention to the biggest reason companies are going after the portable market with two new systems - they're trying to finally break into that 18-35 year old market that portables have never nailed before. Sure, the GBA SP is sleek and cool, but the games, for the most part, are dinky, 2d, kid-focused titles, and sales for older gamers certainly aren't in the same realm as consoles.

    This guy's analysis assumes that the target consumer already owns a GBA or an SP. His assumption is WRONG. There are a lot of older gamers who don't see a need for a portable system, particularly the CASUAL adult gamer; the one who buys Madden and GTA and rents a few other games. Both companies are going for the wow factor to nail the older audience into thinking they need a portable system. The PSP has the edge in the "cool" factor, thanks to Gran Turismo, MGS:Acid, etc, but the DS has the battery life and price point that PSP desperately needs to convert its "cool" factor into pure sales. And Metroid Prime: Hunters might be just enough to get older gamers to pay attention and give a crap during launch. Furthermore, Nintendo has already announced an expected shortage this X-mas season. That is terribly intentional - the buzz of the "hard to get, super-awesome toy of the season" will put the DS in the lead with both sales AND reputation well before anyone even holds a PSP in the states.
    • Whilst i think you are over-generalising, i agree in principle that a LOT of 18-35 year olds dont own a GBA, but do play consoles. That's not suggesting that there arent any (or that are loarge percentage of GBA owners aren't in this bracket), but it does say there are a lot of people who wouldnt buy a GBA because they "think" its a kids toy. This are mostly the same people who wouldnt buy a GC because they think it only has kids games.

      So in theory you are right, in that a fair percentage of people who wou

  • That article... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    That article was horrible. Almost all of the complaints (at least DS-oriented) were based on very small factual evidence! I can only conclude that the arguments against the PSP are similar.

    I really enjoyed how the writer concluded that the DS was just a retro-device, pumping out remake after remake. Only two games have been scheduled for re-release on the DS, and both of the games were HUGE sellers in the past. Among the sizable list of expected releases, it's hard to believe that this system is simply
  • I'm curious as to whether anyone agrees with this guy. I found some of his points valid, but as I read through it I found his convictions lacking. Especially when he said that Nintendo never used to put out a new handheld every couple of years. 1989 - Gameboy 1996 - Gameboy Pocket 1998 - Gameboy Colour 2001 - Gameboy Advance 2003 - Gameboy SP 2004 - Nintendo DS It seems that Nintendo tends to upgrade their handhelds a couple of years after their initial release (except for the gameboy to the gameboy Poc
  • The PSP comments are valid--a Sony rep at the Tokyo Game Show said the console will "allow for two hours of continuous play"--which kinda hints that games taxing on hardware (specifically in accessing the UMD disc) may have a very short lifespan.

    Furthermore, the quality of Sony's disc-reading products (and products in general) are horrible--partially due to the fact that Sony made a shift from Japanese factories in the 90s to factories in Malayasia (while still retaining the high price tag). MD/CD Walkman

  • I would venture to guess that remakes are important to Nintendo because those are the games that sell like blazes. The Super Mario remakes all sold like crazy when they game out for the GBA. I own a GBA expressly because there are many remakes of the good old games I used to play. I own a single game for the system that isn't a sequel or direct remake (Golden Sun 1). I will more than likely skip buying a GBA SP to replace my original GBA in order to get a DS because Nintendo is remaking more good old ga
  • Compounding the problem is that Sony is asking PSP developers to limit how much they push the handheld's technology in their games. The whole prospect is terribly self-defeating. Why bother putting a bunch of powerful hardware in your handheld if you don't even want game developers to take full advantage of it anyway?

    Is there a problem with providing a bit more power than what is intended to be used so that in the few cases where a game would normally struggle (too many enemies on screen, etc) it will i

    • Yeah, but the way these things tend to work, when a new system comes out, developers generally have to work their way through a few games before they can really push a system to its limits, as they learn its strengths and weaknesses, and master its capabilities. So to some degree, the first round of games is already handicapped in regards to its ability to exploit the hardware. And now Sony is asking developers to intentionally go even easier on it?

      With laptops and whatnot, different power levels to the cp
  • But have you seen the Metal Gear Acid [konamijpn.com] Trailers? That thing looks somewhere in between the graphics capabilities of the PS1 and PS2. Just look at the size of the new PS2, it's clear that Sony can fit that technology into a handheld. Sorry, but I think the market is ready for a PS2 you can play on the subway.
  • Evidently, I haven't been keeping up, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (oh yeah, this is Slashdot, so I don't have to ask for that, do I?)

    The P2P uses different media (not DVDs) for its games, so while it is code-compatible, it is not media compatible, so if I buy it, I have to buy all new games for it, even though I have a shelf full of PS2 games.

    I was under the impression that the DS was 100% compatible with GB/GBA/SP games. I learned reading this that it doesn't support multi-player or GameCube
    • The Nintendo DS is not backwards compatible with the original GameBoy or GameBoy Color. That said, I'm hoping someone can pull it off with an addon that goes in the GBA game slot, because I have a few GBC games that I would rather not have to use my GBC for.

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