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IBM PlayStation (Games) XBox (Games)

PS3 and XBox 2 Processors to be Exactly the Same? 98

Posted by Zonk from the one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other dept.
themuffinking writes "IBM (the manufacturers of some of the parts for the PS3 and Xbox 2) told Alex Albrecht that the processors they are putting in the new PS3 and Xbox2 are going to be the same processor, with the parts around it arranged slightly differently. Alex pried this information out of an IBM employee, likely while interviewing him for the show on which Alex is a cohost, The Screen Savers. Alex equivocates by saying "Now again, this is a rumor... so no Slashdotting". Too late for that, but keep in mind this is just hearsay at this point.
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PS3 and XBox 2 Processors to be Exactly the Same? More

PS3 and XBox 2 Processors to be Exactly the Same?

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  • No Slashdotting (Score:3, Interesting)

    by alatesystems ( 51331 ) <chris&chrisbenard,net> on Monday November 01, 2004 @12:40PM (#10687828) Homepage Journal
    "No Slashdotting" is a sure way to get slashdotted, just as sure as saying "I'll get modded down" will get you modded up.

    I doubt Sony will actually do this, since they are developing their own "grid" technology in their console and are not known for outsourcing the core of their business.

    With that said, Alex is awesome. I liked Patrick and Leo. I liked Leo and Kate. I even liked Kevin and Patrick. I really like Kevin and Alex. The show is more immature now, but it's a lot funnier too! Alex is one of the funniest tv personalities I have ever seen.

    PS - Vote tomorrow(if you're a US citizen registered to vote).

  • If the PS3's processor... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HaloZero ( 610207 ) <[protodeka] [at] [gmail.com]> on Monday November 01, 2004 @12:41PM (#10687842) Homepage
    ...is a PowerPC G5, will Sony use an emulation layer to make PS2 and PSX games cross-evolution compatible? I can't see them breaking that trademark functionality now, when the console market game is really starting to get interesting.

  • Sony??? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kannibal_klown ( 531544 ) on Monday November 01, 2004 @12:45PM (#10687904)
    I thought the big thing with Sony was that they made pretty much everything in the PS2, so they didn't have to rely on other companies and suppliers, and thus got it at cost.

    Going with the same CPU and the XBox 2 (with similar components) is going to mean that Sony is going to have to rely on external suppliers.
    • Isn't there a nice little MIPS 3000 processor sitting in there, providing the PS1 emulation? I'd guess they've been farming produciton of that out to SGI, tho I suppose they could have bought the rights to do it themselves.
      • I don't think the ps1/2 mips chip is SGI's at all. It doesn't have a test-and-set instruction, for one thing. (Which is why postgresql is such a dog on the ps2 -- you need TAS for quick mutex support.)
      • The MIPS core in question (the IOP), sits on the same piece of silicon as the other MIPS core in the PS2 (the EE). Both cores are licensed, not farmed out.
    • "so they didn't have to rely on other companies and suppliers,"

      Which means they get all of the blame for another PS2-esque launch "shortage." This way, if (i. e. "when") it happens again, this time they can try blaming IBM for not supplying processors fast enough.

  • Porting (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 01, 2004 @12:47PM (#10687948)
    Since the PS3, XBox2, and Mac all use the same processor, porting games should be a snap [slashdot.org], right?

    • Re:Porting (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Seahawk ( 70898 )
      Yes - as easy as porting a windows program to linux...

      There is MUCH more to it than just the architecture.

      Look how many platforms linux runs on - supporting different architectures is not THAT hard - but porting between two completely different api's are.

  • This is old news (Score:2, Insightful)

    by CRobin ( 20777 )
    Its been known for a long time now that both Mirosoft and the Cell where to have an IBM power based core... So build it up with some vague hype, and you get this article. Of course IBM gave their most recent power core to both of them, did you really think that either MS or Sony wanted an old PPC core? They both are looking and paying for the bleeding edge power core, which is what they got. Did anyone tell them Apple is going to be using the same CPU core too, oh no!!!! Geez what hype.
    • were....

      Burn Karma Burn!
    • I disagree. I do believe that MS and Sony would be more interested in an older core than the latest core. From a price point it makes more sense that they would user a older, cheaper core. Especially since a lot of the work will be done by the GPU and not the CPU. Especially when you consider that theses devices will run custom OS's that are optimized for their application. It all boils down to money. Remember these deceives will cost in the 300$ price range. What ever CPU they use has to be cheap, (
    • Of course IBM wansn't going to have two separate PPC projects, one ("Cell") with Sony and another for Microsoft. But from Sony's hype, the Cell was supposed to be something quite revolutionary and specifically designed for their game machine. I was imagining lots of small cores, or somesuch thing.

      So it is a surprise that the Xbox processor will essentially be the same. I expected it to be much more like the regular Power5 than like the Cell. So does this mean the Cell itself is really not so different fro

    • Well, believe it or not, IBM has the resources and the smarts to make things other than PPC cores. And, Sony and Microsoft paid them to design new cores especially for their systems, but Sony and Microsoft don't know that IBM only made 1 core for the both of them.

  • Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by polyp2000 ( 444682 ) on Monday November 01, 2004 @12:59PM (#10688171) Homepage Journal
    I remember reading something along these lines on the register or was it here on
    slashdot

    It is certainly true to say that IBM are having to do with the new cell chip- but it is also doing this in partnership with hitachi and sony.

    If the PS3 is to be using G5's (which are available now) then how come they are specifically branding it as CELL, plouging development costs into it when the chip already exists? Its idle speculation - and who knows who this infomation anway it could be IBM's tea boy for all we know ...

    Nick...
    • CELL likely refers to an interconnect (similar to Hyper Transport, but for longer distances and varried latencies), but the G5 is perfectly good at processing, so why not save a few ten-billion dollars and use an existing CPU for the actual core.

      Nobody designs new CPUs fron scratch anymore.
  • IBM is also making the Gamecube chip. So if the gamecube get's a different chip, will it be less powerful? IBM must be in a tough position and probably has to make sure that each chip perform about the same.
    • Why.

      You get what you pay for.
      if nintendo pays for a faster chip, thats what they get.
      • Which is one of the reasons why I said if the nintendo processor would be faster. Nintendo does not have the deep pockets that Sony and Microsoft have(I believe that this might be Nintendo's last system). Sony and Microsoft can definitely pay for the fastest CPU. IBM would probably recieve complaints from the companies if their(Sony or Microsoft) processor turned out to be slower than the competition. Well the processor is only one component. What matters is how well the overall system is built and
        • Nintendo does not have the deep pockets that Sony and Microsoft have

          Wrong. Nintendo isn't as big, but they have assloads of cash. The 'loss' that they posted a couple quarters ago? It was because they had too much cash in weakening US dollars.

          Sony and Microsoft can definitely pay for the fastest CPU

          Wrong. Customers pay for the fastest CPU. (Well, except in the case of the XBox, where Microsoft *does* actually heavily subsidize the cost of the console)

          IBM would probably recieve complaints from t
          • Sony and Microsoft can definitely pay for the fastest CPU

            Wrong. Customers pay for the fastest CPU.

            Wait, they don't have to pay IBM until their product sells? That's a pretty sweet deal. I would have imagined that IBM would require some money up front.

            /smarm
        • Nintendo ONLY does games. Compare Nintendo with the games-sections of Sony and Microsoft and be amazed where you'll find Nintendo at.

          They have truckloads of money.

          Nintendo has a lot of systems yet to make.

          The Gamecube has almost sold as much world wide as the Xbox - and there are no chipped cubes in those numbers like there are chipped Xboxes.

          • But there certainly are a lot of used Gamecubes in the market. I work at a Game Crazy in suburban Chicago, and we almost never get Xboxes traded in, people usually only trade in their PS2 units when they're broken... we get 'Cubes traded in all the time.

            It's unfortunate, because I think the Cube is a great system, but we must have at least 15-20 used Cubes in the back room. I can't speak for any other store, but this is at least what I see.
            • I'm a technician at a best buy and from all the other techs in the company as well as at other stores, we never see Gamecubes come in as faulty, the returns simply come in as, "we didn't want this" or it simply needed a good blast of air to clean out the dust puppies.

              Xboxs and PS2s however (PS1 way back when) come in constantly for more than just cleanings, bad hardware, brand new games no longer working, where a good dusting and cleaning doesn't do the trick.

              I've had my Gamecube knocked over by my spawns
    • IBM must be in a tough position and probably has to make sure that each chip perform about the same.


      Not really. Just a similar speed as what they promised each company.
  • I was under the impression that Sony manufactured all of the PS parts using its own companies. Doing so would make tremendous sense, since they would get a huge hunk of business out of it, as opposed to IBM.
    • but it's still an IBM design based on the PPC architecture. IBM's made a small to-do about how they've been selling the PPC "core" to other companies to modify for their designs. I.e. they sell the design to sony engineers for PS3, sell the design to MS for XBox2, of course they have some fab available too...and they've got REALLY good numbers on efficency... so good even nVidia and AMD partner with them for research and a little fab!

      Big blue may have lost the PC wars, but they're making it up in spade

  • I had the feeling before, that maybe CELL will be a PowerPC with (several?) custom vector coprocessors.
    For PS2 compatibility they could just use the PStwo chipset, so they don't depend on MIPS. And I think they already announced that PS1 compatibility will either not happen, or be a software emulation.
    But in general I think this is BS. Neither Microsoft or Sony are so stupid that they don't recognize a similar. What is most likely is that Sony just uses IBM's manufacturing plans.
    And I couldn't really think

  • Unforseen dissection? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sentry21 ( 8183 ) on Monday November 01, 2004 @01:23PM (#10688610) Journal
    As it says on his weblog, they are supposedly rearranging the components on the motherboard and hoping that Microsoft and Sony won't notice.

    Honestly, I can't believe that a giant like IBM, or any of its decisions, would not forsee someone at Sony tearing open an XBox2 or someone at Microsoft tearing open a PS3, stripping it down to transistors and seeing what makes it tick. If I were working on the XBox2 team I'd have two PS3 preorders in as soon as I could - one so I could have, and one so I could dissect.

    This is likely BS meant to start an uproar, or a misinterpretation (i.e. perhaps they are both using G5 processors with slight differences, or the chipset is slightly different). The machines won't be identical beyond what's required by the processors, I'm sure.

    --Dan
    • I doubt they'd be hoping that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't notice. IBM is too savvy to screw around with either of them too much. They make their money on their reputation of being able to provide anything to anyone, though rarely the fastest product (currently, they're having no trouble there) and never at the lowest price. Hence, if Sony and Microsoft are getting basically the same thing, they're both either fully aware of the situation, or they just simply don't need to know because it's irrelevant to the

    • As it says on his weblog, they are supposedly rearranging the components on the motherboard and hoping that Microsoft and Sony won't notice.

      Not the motherboard, the CPU. "It turns out that what IBM is doing is moving around parts on the CPU to make them look different". Of course the two chips would still have essentially the same performance, instruction sets, and features, so it wouldn't take either Sony or Microsoft long to figure it out. Which indicates to me that this rumor is all rubbish.

  • want rumors? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I heard that the next XBOX will be red! I'm serious! Can we post it on /. please?
  • This is a huge blow for Sony, an admission that their brilliant Cell design sucks the big one? Ouch.

    Someone needs to get on making a Dual emulator pronto!

  • Pretty clear whats going on (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zeromous ( 668365 ) on Monday November 01, 2004 @02:09PM (#10689448) Homepage
    Seems to me, that both the Xbox and PS2 will use a powerpc core.

    Now as anyone knows, this does not make two processors the same. Its obvious this is speculative hype, hinting at something many observers have suggested over the past few months with the announcement of IBM supplying XBOX2 chips.

    Let's not forget there is something else to Sony's chip design. It was designed by Kenny-boy remember? in *cooperation* with IBM? Hmm sounds like a propietary architecture based on a powerPC core to me... likelihood of a Ken Kutargi chip in an Xbox? not bloody likely.
  • Has anyone considered that the "Cell" chip of the PS3 is just a graphics processor (or maybe for more general use, but highly specialized just the same) and that they still need a GPU for controling the whole system?

    So maybe they both use a PPC core, so what? Do you realize how many things have PPC cores in them? There are cars with them. Does that make your car an XBox II or PS3? Of course not.

    I'm sure Sony and Microsoft know exactly what they are getting from IBM and what the similarities are (and a
  • I think that makes sense. And shows (one more time) how Sony lies with respect to their future technology. They were hyping the CELL as the new supercomputer, revolutionary, etc. But, at the end, it will probably be just a powerpc processor (still a great processor).

    Still, the PS3 should be more powerful than Xbox2, since it will come out almost a year after.

  • ...On the 3rd day (Score:4, Interesting)

    by slumpy ( 304072 ) on Monday November 01, 2004 @03:52PM (#10691656) Homepage
    I might be crazy, but I have a theory where game companies consoles have the most success with their 2nd system and begin puttering out with the 3rd system...

    1. NES...Good system...great seller
    2. SNES...Best system of all time
    3. N64...UH-Oh, not a bad system, but Uh-OH

    We're now soon approaching the PS3, which I think may follow in the footsteps of the N64, which was a decent system, but nowhere close to the success of PS1 or even SNES. Therefore, I predict Xbox2 will emerge as the new "PS2" and we'll enter Pax Microsoftana for a while until X3 or whatever we call it. Same can be applied to portables....GBA is amazing, but will the DS, or 3rd entry into the fray be successful? Following my arbitrary model, then no, although I'm hoping it is.

    Thank you for reading
    • Same goes for Master System, Mega Drive and Saturn, BTW.

      I think it's a coincidence but analysts already predict that the PS3 will lose the lead to Microsoft's next system which could very well be. Sony's abuse of their position (SCEA rejecting 2d-like games, for example) might make third parties go to Microsoft next gen and catapult them into first place.
    • FYI. The GBA is the third generation Gameboy. There was the original, then the Gameboy Color, then the GBA. I would say that the portable market follows different rules than the home consoles though.
    • Actually, from what data I've collected, Nintendo has consistently sold less and less units with each hardware revision.

      NES = 62 million units
      http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/nes.htm [psxfanatics.com]

      SNES = 46 million units
      http://www.nintendoland.com/home2.htm?history/hist 3.htm [nintendoland.com]

      N64 = 30 million units
      http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/n64.htm [psxfanatics.com]

      I didn't see any up to date info on the sales of GameCube, but I guesstimate somewhere between 12-18 million units.

      Now supposedly, the game m
    • Sega
      1. SMS -- not much
      2. Genesis -- great seller
      3. Saturn -- crash
      4. DC -- well, better than Saturn

      So that's a "maybe" for your theory

      Atari?
      1. 2600 -- best seller
      2. 5200 -- nuthin'
      3. 7800 -- still more nuthin'
      4. Jaguar -- fuhgedabouddit

      That was a peak at #1, unless you count pong systems or something. It's an interesting idea, but I think the sample size is too small and there are too many counterexamples to really generalize like that.

      Also, NES was dominant in a way I don't think SNES ever was, given
    • Too bad the DS is their fourth entry (GB->GBC->GBA->DS).
  • The Cell is a multicore PowerPC system [theinquirer.net], with a vastly different overall architecture.

    XBox 2 PPC, hell that's been known for a while.

  • This is one way to have your homepage seen.

    First of all put a picture of your self on your homepage. Start a rumor, put it on your homepage, have /. conver the story=)

    I would like to see games come with a sticker: PS3 and XBox2 compatible=)
  • Apple has announced a PPC chip shortage and won't be able to make next year's targets.

  • Seriously, what DOESN'T have a PowerPC in it?

  • Don't tell Alex the chip is similar to the G5, or he might start smashing perfectly good XBox and Playstations on the air to appear as an even bigger idiot then when he smashed the working Mac instead of either trying OS X, or donating it.

    I stopped watching The ScreenSavers often when G4 took over, and completly when it moved to LA.
  • PS3 will be different... It'll be slightly faster... TO THE MAX!
  • PowerPC is an architecture [ibm.com], its not just a proprietry brand like "G5" which everyone here seems fixated with. The G5 is just an *implementation* of the PPC architecture.

    This is why PowerPC has supported 64bit, way before anyone but IBM actually *implemented* it.

    Also, why would IBM make up a whole new ISA just for Sony, if anyone can license [ibm.com] PPC?

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