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Role Playing (Games)

MMOG Subscriptions Update 58

Posted by Zonk from the more-moogles-than-you-can-shake-a-stick-at dept.
As he does every few months, SirBruce has updated his page detailing Massively Multiplayer Online Game subscription numbers. No major additions this time around, just some minor tweaks reflecting recent trends. FFXI is way up, with EQ taking a slight dip. No data on EQ2 is included yet. For slightly cynical further analysis, Anyuzer provides us with his opinions.
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MMOG Subscriptions Update More

MMOG Subscriptions Update

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  • No kidding FFXI is way up... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 19, 2004 @04:39PM (#10869214)
    Yeah, no shit that FFXI would be "way up." They just finally got their asses around to releasing the European version of the game. So finally, three years after the original release, European players can play.

    Except it to drop massively by the end of next month as the people still playing it to waste time until EQ2 and WoW cancel their accounts.
    • I miss FFXI :(

      Too bad SquareEnix has a policy of not giving a damn about some things....
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • my problem isn't with the gil buying/selling...my problem has more to do with billing.

          I purchased the game/HDD on the day of release back in February and played it for months with no problems at all. On very short notice, I was sent on a series of business trips that required me to be away from my PS2 and unable to change the billing over to another credit card tied to my national banking account, which is where I would be putting my money (as opposed to my regional credit union, since I wouldn't have acc

  • SWG (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JavaLord ( 680960 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @04:40PM (#10869222) Journal
    I think the next few months for SWG should be do or die time. They have had their Jedi re-structuring, JTS and I think they have a combat revamp coming up. If all of that doesn't fix it, nothing will.
    • I couldn't help but chuckle when I read that the combat revamp is still coming up. That's been in the making for how long?

      • SWG/JTL (Score:4, Interesting)

        by kherr ( 602366 ) <kevin&puppethead,com> on Friday November 19, 2004 @05:49PM (#10870167) Homepage
        The combat revamp was delayed by the JTL expansion. While JTL isn't perfect, they did manage to essentially add a second complete game to SWG, integrating it very well with those who don't have the expansion. The most interesting thing about JTL is how it has drastically altered the economy. Prior to JTL resources were selling for about 1 credit per unit, now the resources needed for making ships are going for as high as 10-15 credits per unit. This is happening on all servers and is confirmed by reading the shipwright profession forum.

        JTL's ship combat is FPS like Tachyon or Starlancer or similar. It's pretty nice compared to the turn-based combat on the ground. What they've done for higher-level pilots are extra ship skills. There are also different levels of responsiveness for ships and ship components, altering things like energy regeneration and rate of fire. It doesn't change the FPS feel, but not everyone fights at the same level. It is now not just natural ability but also how good the gear is that you can put together for your ship.
        • I've actually heard from people who have played it that ship combat is ALL about how good your ship is and what skills you have. Which basically turns it into "who has the most time to play the game and acquire the best stuff" instead of what REAL ship combat should be about...skill.

          • It's a combination of what's in the ship and your twitch skills. That's not really a bad thing.

            If you don't have a good engine, then you can't expect to turn quite fast enough to face the oncoming enemy. If you don't have stout enough shields, you can't expect a very lengthy amount of time before hits start impacting your armor. If you don't have stout armor, then you can expect to be in the vacuum fairly quickly.

            If you take two similarly equipped players, then you can expect the combat to be base
        • 10-15cpu resources, lol. Good resources can hit 250cpu, and I've seen medical resources pass 300.

  • some old ones there ... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ssand ( 702570 )
    I remember the Realm Online, that game has been around for ages, one of the first graphical ones ever released, initially by Sierra, and it's still around. I find it interesting from the Q&A from the Cities of Heroes put on the front page of slashdot earlier (I don't feel like linking) states there are no "blockbuster" MMORPG, and in the graph it shows Lineage at the highest currently, with over 2.25 mil.

  • I just don't see how this is possible. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sgant ( 178166 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @05:20PM (#10869826) Homepage Journal
    Lineage? How can this game be so popular? I've played it...I've played it again...I just don't get it.

    Yes yes yes, it's huge in Korea...that's always thrown at us, Korea. Every man, woman and child in Korea playes MMORPG's since the day they're born blah blah blah. I get that. But Korea doesn't have any other game to play there? I mean, are they forced to play this or something?

    Ok, this isn't a troll, it really isn't. Do people here play that game and if so, what is the draw for you? Just because I don't get it doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

    • Re:I just don't see how this is possible. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Llevar ( 788850 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @05:27PM (#10869909)
      Yes yes yes, it's huge in Korea...that's always thrown at us, Korea. Every man, woman and child in Korea playes MMORPG's since the day they're born blah blah blah. I get that. But Korea doesn't have any other game to play there? I mean, are they forced to play this or something?

      They're proud of their Korean Lineage.

    • Re:I just don't see how this is possible. (Score:5, Funny)

      by cephyn ( 461066 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @06:15PM (#10870449) Homepage
      It's a screensaver for them. It prevents burn-in between sessions of starcraft.

    • A different way of playing (Score:4, Interesting)

      by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @09:08PM (#10871652) Journal
      I am in SWG and at times it feels very very lonely. Same is true of most western MMO levelling based games. Read some of the comment on WoW or EQ2, you will see every other review/preview talk about how hard or difficult soloeing is. Ehm HELLO? This is a multi-player game? Why are you soloing everything? Why do you complain that certain story based quests have to be done in a group? If you want solo go play baldurs gate.

      Of course it is just a play style but it is one that is not there in the korean games.

      At least not with korean players. At a previous job we had some contact with asian companies and I got to know 2 geeks who were into ragnarok. They were rather amazed at the way westerners played it. All solo and not chatting just bend on leveling up.

      To them these games are far more social afairs. Kinda like how some people play bridge or whatever. Not as a serious competition but as just something to do while they chat.

      Think IRC with pictures.

      Most games can be done like that. You got people who play bingo and turn it into a party and you got people killing each other because the other shouted bingo to early.

      Some men go fishing as an excuse to sleep during the day away from the wife. Others throw stones at watersporters.

      If I read some of the reviews of EQ2 and WoW (and seen the way some people play SWG) then I almost feel they are playing a solo Diablo/Baldur gates style game with online ladder/ranking system.

      It is not that lineage or ragnarok can't be played in the same way. It is just that its rather simple nature also lends itself more easily to chat while playing it.

      For some reason checkers or monopoly is more often a fun game played for playing with others then chess. Perhaps party games need to be simpler.

      If you are playing in a nice group then lineage and ragnarok can be fun. If the more solo style play does it for you then the western games offer more. Wich is better? Neither, both are multiplayer games but the motivation for you wanting to play multiplayer might make you choose one or the other.

      Oh and think about this. More people are playing korean RPG's with all their horrible western support then are playing ALL western games. Perhaps they got something right.

      • Read some of the comment on WoW or EQ2, you will see every other review/preview talk about how hard or difficult soloeing is.

        Never saw any review/preview that said that WoW was hard or difficult to solo. I played through the WoW closed beta and I can tell you, every class can solo if they choose, or group if they choose. But there is certainly content that just has to have a group to do.

        Oh and think about this. More people are playing korean RPG's with all their horrible western support then are playing
      • ...I play SWG/JTL and I run into a mass of people that simply see no reason to group or join a PA or do much of anything social in the game.

        I have run into all sorts of people that seem intent ONLY on the level as fast as possible, grind, grind, grind mentality. They don't play the game to enjoy what the game offers, they don't read into the story quests, they don't converse with other players, unless they absolutely have to. It doesn't make much sense to me to play that way.

        Playing like that would
    • Ragnarok Online is Korean (the graph says it's Japanese, but it isn't). The graph also says it has 300,000 members, which is no small number (though pales in comparison to Lineage).
  • With Everquest2 already out, World of Warcraft coming out on the 23erd and The Matrix Online coming out on 1/18/05 the old leaders in the MMORPG genre are going to start to slip, EQ's dip is only the beginning of a major shakeup in the MMORPG market.
    • I agree, it's going to _very_ interesting to see what the graph(s) look like in 6 months, especially with World of Warcraft [worldofwarcraft.com]

      Will WoW increase the market share or cannibalize it? Hard to say, but I think we'll see more people who don't play MMORPGs, check WoW out, since it's not focused on the hard-core players. I even had a casual gamer friend say to me, who was also on the Open Beta ...

      "I'm already addicted, and its not even out yet!"

      If someone who is a casual gamer (who only really likes co-op gamin

    • I personally am interested in what's going to happen once GuildWars comes out (). Since it's not going to have a subscription fee, will it be tracked by the same standards? I saw reports of 400,000 to 500,000 players during their recent preview event. Since it's not subscription based, I imagine it may not force many people to quit their other subscriptions, but still, if this game takes off, it could make it more difficult for the others to charge monthly fees at all, if not at their current rate.
      • Guild Wars isn't an MMO, why would they track it?
        • I'm afraid I don't understand... just because it utilizes a different way to handle the mas of players, what about it makes it not fit the description of "Massive Multiplayer Online"?
          • Firstly, their own FAQ says they call it a CORPG, not a MMORPG.

            Secondly, their use of highly instantiated spaces makes it almost a matchmaking service with a 3D graphical front-end. However, we are seeing a similar approach with games like Tabula Rasa, so I wouldn't disqualify it on these grounds.

            Finally, without a monthly access fee, it will be difficult to count subscribers. If they give out numbers that include everyone that ever bought the game, it's going to be difficult. I'd need something like a

    • Is it? Why (Score:2, Informative)

      by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 )
      EQ2 is just going to ursurp EQ1

      Perhaps. People have invested an awfull lot of time with their EQ1 characters. Are they really willing to start all over?

      WoW has had a lot of positive reviews but nothing truly staggering. Nothing to suggest that people not yet involved with MMO games will take it up. Will it be enough to take people away from characters they invested a lot in to try a new game?

      SWG has released JTL. The figures are not yet in on how good or bad it is doing. SWG has a lot of dual even trippl

      • Yes in some ways it looks good but they also been amazingly reluctant to truly open up their betas to europeans. Have they got something to hide?

        They are trying to keep players on the servers in their own region. Each region is launching at a different time. US, Korea and Aus/NZ launch on Tues, EU on Feb/Mar '05, no idea when China launches. The European closed beta just launched September 30. Wether they will have an open beta like the US is still to be determined. Sorry you guys have to wait, the op

      • I'll admit my experience in MMORPG's is slim, but having played WoW I can honestly say it really is all that its cracked up to be. I got lucky; my gf was in the open beta this past month, so I played a bit on her account. The _only_ thing I had to complain about is lag and server overload. Other than that it was really impressive, and clearly done in Blizzard stlye (complete with practical joke humour - on the last day of the beta the GM's set demons loose in the major cities and turned many players into
        • Gf reporting in... and yeah, WoW really does blow EQ right out of the water. I played EQ last night for the first time since the WoW open beta started, and man, did I ever notice the differences. SOE has screwed up so many things with EQ that I will never play one of their games again, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way - there are a *lot* of disgruntled people in EQ, and WoW is going to give them a viable alternative. If I hadn't made the open beta for WoW, I probably would have kept pl
      • Unless you are really into the particular "world" once you abandon a MMOG I think people evaluate all alternative games on pretty much their own merits.

        Personally I like changing games once in awhile and I would actually be less interested in moving from EQI to EQII than trying something totally different.
        • I took a break of about 18 months between EQ1 and now... but since EQ2 came out first, I'm giving them a shot first.

          It's definitely not EQ1, which is good... whether SOE ruins the game through the hijinks and mismanagement with EQ1 remains to be seen.
  • Looking at his data it seems that he might be a bit bias toward a certain game. There are only 19 data points for Lineage while there are double that for games that have released later on. He doesn't tell what time of year these statistics were taken and he doesn't provide a set time interval between his recordings. It is good data, but nothing that could show any grand results. The only thing this is good for is telling who is on top at the moment, which might not always be accurate by his scale either. I
    • I can't create data points out of thin air! I can only graph data points as companies release them or I get them secretly from a reliable source. I'd love to have precise figures on a monthly basis for every MMO out there, but you'll have to convince the companies who make them to do that. I'm just doing the best I can to report the information that is out there.

      Bruce

  • What WoW & EQ2 won't do... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by oddman ( 204968 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @07:19PM (#10870988)
    I don't think World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 are going to seriously affect City of Heroes. The kind of quick-easy action, no crafting game-play that CoH exemplifies is pretty much unique in the MMO sphere.
    • I don't think World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 are going to seriously affect City of Heroes.

      You might be right. On the other hand, I played CoH to pass the time waiting for WoW to come out; using CoH as a kind of gateway to a full-fledged MMO game. (Or maybe Neverwinter Nights was the gateway.)

      Are there a lot of people like me? I don't know. WoW is definately more fun than CoH, and I don't know of anybody that likes superheros and hates fantasy to the extent that, given the choice, they'd pick CoH over

  • The Lineage-Korea Connection Revealed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by matthewcraig ( 68187 ) on Friday November 19, 2004 @09:01PM (#10871631)
    In Seoul this fall, I visited a good number of their very cool "PC Rooms" (pronounced "PC bong" ... lol). I was determined to find out the Lineage - Korea Connection !! Gotta admit first this might not be the whole story because some of the details were lost in the language barrier. Yeah, it's true, Lineage is big-time popular there. However, I think I discovered at least part of the reason behind the popularity. Apparently, entering one's Korean ID number (might not have been a national ID number, maybe tied to a phone number?) unlocked one free Lineage / Lineage II account. As much as I wanted to play, no one had any idea how a westerner without this ID number could register on the Korean Lineage servers, and I tried about four crowded "PC Rooms" with the same results. One guy actually let me register with their unused ID number saying he was never planning to use his Lineage II account. Although a weird server problem kept it from working, I got to see the whole registration process, and it was remarkably unobtrusive (no immediate questions about credit cards, home telephone numbers, next of kin... American companies, are you listening?). While I don't think the game is entirely free to Koreans, I do think Lineage makes it very easy for Koreans to get started maybe offering an automatic free month or so. Even still, consider these regular players are walking out of their apartments down to the "PC Room" (generally one per two/three blocks sometimes more or less). It was surprising finding at even 7 AM Saturday there were people down there racking up XPs online!
    • That's really interesting. I wish north american gaming would take an approach, not nessesarily a free trial, but at least allow you to play the 30 day trial that comes boxed without registering w/ a credit card. I'm looking forward to WOW, as blizzard seems to know what they are doing, and are probably going to be releasing time cards.
    • They don't ask you all that stuff because NCSoft and the gamer aren't in any kind of financial contract with each other. It's the Internet cafe that actually has the deal with NCSoft, the players just have it bundled into their pc usage charge when they go into the cafe.

      The sub numbers in the study are derived from numbers NCSoft have released about how many active accounts they have.
  • That dip in EQ subscription seems pretty normal to me. MMORPGs are getting overly common these days, and people would be looking for something new (i.e., newer than what they already have). I'll be interested to see how EQ2 comes out though, although I suspect it'll have a low subscription as well, since it's a sequel to an already-released game, and people might be skeptical of it's new gameplay/features/graphics/whatever.

    • Re:Dip in EQ (Score:3, Interesting)

      by WuphonsReach ( 684551 )
      EQ2 seems to be doing well out of the starting blocks. Something like 300k toons created already (and there's a limit of 4 per account, which means there are at least 75k subscribers and maybe 150k).

      Will it be the runaway success that EQ1 is? /shrug

      It's only the second week after launch. Most reviews and word-of-mouth are positive. So far it's been a pretty clean launch with only minor cosmetic bugs found in the game. The beta testers seem to have done a good job, at least with the starting content.
    • I signed up for the free trial of EQ in the weeks before EQ2 shipped to judge if I wanted to get into EQ2 when it shipped. There were numerous high-level characters giving away everything they had - both money and equipment. I'm pretty sure that EQ2 is going to cut into the number of EQ1. More importantly, it's going to make a big cut in the number of 'serious' players.

  • My thoughts on PvP in WoW (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Durindana ( 442090 ) on Sunday November 21, 2004 @05:18AM (#10879928)
    Folks are talking a lot about WoW's upcoming release, and rightly so. It really is going to be the big beasty game it's been promised to be.

    But to counter the WoW love I'm seeing I'd like to offer some thoughts on the game's quality for a particular segment of the market: the PvPer.

    Caveats: I'm an ex-Clan Lord, ex-Shadowbane player. I enjoy questing and other PvE-type activities for the social aspects, but to put it simply I find playing against the computer damned unsatisfying, fairly quickly. Of course I know serious PvP isn't for everyone, but for those of us who aren't willing to bother unless there's a human on the other side to challenge us with player (NOT character) skill, strategy and quick thinking, there's no substitute.

    Executive Summary of my thoughts on WoW PvP: Not Ready for Prime Time, but Lots of Potential. The game is so clearly built around a PvE/questing model its deficiencies in PvP really stand out. However, the engine is robust and looks great, even on sub-standard hardware like mine. I think the problems for PvP posed by a largely PvE game are overcomable, but it's going to take some very significant ruleset/mechanics changes before it's worth it.

    Specific problems:

    - PvP is Meaningless. It's basically a multi-person duel with no stakes involved. You don't lose anything but a couple of minutes - or less - spent respawning; no loot, little damage to your gear, no money, no experience, NOTHING. There's no recognition for a PvP kill, no death list, no guild/race/area messages about who's kicking who's ass. You can't loot a corpse, you can sit and stare at it until the player decides to respawn, when you can kill them again with no consequences for either of you. Yay.

    - Any sort of operational tactics are pointless, because you can't hold territory or ground unless you round up all your enemies, they kindly allow you to kill them all in the same place, and you corpse-camp them. Otherwise they can just rez for free, rapidly, regroup and attack. Everything's a running battle with no center, no topographical advantage, no flanks, no nothing, just a mess.

    - All classes are the same speed unmounted. This is ridiculous, and it makes finishing kills a joke if your main damage route is melee. You need potions/gear to move faster, which brings me to my next point.

    - The game is dependent on items. This is so Everquest-y it's not even funny. Whether you're skilled or not matters far less than the items you have equipped and, therefore, the time you spent farming to get them (or for the money to buy them at auction). This SUCKS. Some augmentation by items is fine, but this game is ALL about items. And level. Which also sucks. Skill and strategy anticipation is a very distant consideration.

    In the brief time I was playing I had a several Horde players complain (this is through their Alliance alts and buddies) that I was exploiting because they for some reason couldn't cast when they wanted to. I was just using the rogue attack Kick; when they looked it up (if they bothered) they complained that it's too powerful to use against players. Come oooonnnnn. In that same vein people were screaming bloody murder and shouting to GMs anytime Horde players mounted a raid. This was on a "PVP SERVER."

    Brief aside on player skill v. character skill, cause that's a differentiation that I know a lot of PvE gamers don't make. In general I'm talking about knowledge of your opponent's capabilities, knowledge of your own and the facility to advantageously match yours against his. Facing your enemy with strength in the areas of his weakness, to paraphrase Sun Tzu.

    - The group mechanics are rudimentary. Max players in a group is not high enough for PvP and there's no way to move in formation. Presentation of group stats - with the portrait and all - is too clunky to make proper use of against human players.

    - Far as I know there's no mouse-push camera option. There needs to be if there's not.

    - The combat abilities are built aroun
    • You sir, need to go and play Eve-online. It's sci-fi, so miught not appeal, but it's all about PvP. There are certain areas where PvP is not allowed unless you're in a war (which costs a bit of cash, but nothing more), but in the high reward areas pvp is fair game for anyone.

      Also, they've just introduced the mechanisms to capture and control territory by building stations in space which can be destroyed by other players.

      I've just quit due to real life, but I'd recommend it to anyone who wanted to get in
  • FYI, thanks to Slashdot's continued lack of care, my web site will be down for some time due to lack of bandwidth. Whether or not I choose to block Slashdot links in the future depends on their willingness to respond to my pleas.

    Bruce

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