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Portables (Games)

Nintendo DS Emitting Anomalous Signal? 97

Posted by Zonk from the dual-screens-means-twice-the-emissions? dept.
An Anonymous reader writes "An owner of Nintendo's Shiny New Portable, has noticed his DS is emitting a signal that is projecting a ghostly image of his screen onto his TV- and he's not even multiplayer gaming. He and several others have uploaded photos of their DSs interfering with their TV's reception. As one forum-goer points out, this doesn't seem like the DS is adhering to FCC standards." More news from a forum, so enjoy some NaCl with this.
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Nintendo DS Emitting Anomalous Signal? More

Nintendo DS Emitting Anomalous Signal?

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  • This is pretty much what the whole TEMPEST dealie was about, wasn't it? I'd wager the same thing happens with a GBA LCD if you strip off the case and shielding bits.

    I really like how the forum-goers keep claiming it's a secret feature from Nintendo.

    • Re:Yeah, and? (Score:4, Funny)

      by bynary ( 827120 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @10:41AM (#10963341) Homepage
      "Wow! It must be some hidden feature that Nintendo will release an add-on for!" And your blender is sending "special messages" to your TV everytime you turn it on. I wonder if KitchenAid is going to release an add-on so you can watch your blending live on television?

      • Re:Yeah, and? (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Dunno. My POS microwave puts out so much interference that the TV gets wavy lines. I wonder if I should check to see if I'm getting cooked??!

        The 12 year old 3733t gam3r logic on the warp pipe forums is classic. The DS shouldn't generate interference so therefore Nintendo are doing this deliberately! Woot!
    • TEMPEST dealie?

      • Re:Yeah, and? (Score:3, Informative)

        by Student_Tech ( 66719 )
        TEMPEST @ Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
        Another article [shmoo.com] with some more links.
        I think the original poster may be referring to the Van Eck Phreaking, not TEMPEST as TEMPEST is the US code limiting the radiation out from electronic equipment, and Van Eck Phreaking is actually receiveing the signal emitted from the equipment.
        Actually for more go to Google and look up "Van Eck Phreaking"
  • If the FCC has arbitrary standards for indeceny why not WIFI?

  • Interesting Possibilities (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blueZhift ( 652272 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @10:37AM (#10963301) Homepage Journal
    Hmmm, well this certainly has some interesting possibilities if true. It might be kinda cool to be able to project one's gameplay on a good TV. I wonder if anyone will try to enhance this "feature"?

    • That may be cool, but I doubt it's something controllable To that extent. A TI-86 will mess up an FM radio. I had the same issue with my old GBC, but on different stations. Isn't the FCC regulation that a device has to accept outisde interferance, not that it can't produce any itself?
      • I think it's both.

        My question is: what happens if there's one object bound by FCC rules that is interfered by another that also bound by FCC rules?
      • Someone made some software for the TI-82 that let you play music on AM radio.

        From those pictures, it looks like it only interferes when the tv signal is very weak. I don't think able to pic it up on a channel with mostly static would be called "harmful interference". The TV is turning up it's reciever gain, getting any signal it can.

        Japan, Korea, and many other Eastern countries have very strick EMC regulations, so, it's garanteed that these were tested before being sold. Although, they could have pulled
        • Someone made some software for the TI-82 that let you play music on AM radio.

          Back in the 70s and early 80s, that's how we made sound effects on home computers. Games sometimes contained loops specifically designed to do nothing but generate sound effects when you placed an AM radio in close proximity to the computer.

          Signed,
          You Damned Kids, Stay Off My Lawn!

    • Yeah, that would be cool! And then, we could get like controllers, 'cause, you know, the GBA is a bit small, and it's hard for two people to play at the same time. Maybe it could have rubber pads on the bottom, so it'll stay put on a table, and we'd better make it a bit bigger so it doesn't move around when we pull on the cables.

      Oh, wait, that's a retarded idea. Never mind.

      What part of portable don't you understand?
      • "What part of portable don't you understand?"

        The idea is to have good games that happen to be portable, not just good portable games. If your portable gaming is your gaming choice of last resort, why bother with anything more complicated than an old Game & Watch?

        In other words, if you wouldn't want to play the game on a TV, why would you want to play it at all?

  • An Excerpt from the Forum... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by devnull17 ( 592326 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @10:52AM (#10963452) Homepage Journal

    Here's an excerpt from the thread:

    i really really hope ninty crakes some sort of hardware or wire so we can play our DS's ON a TV. Wud be a really nice idea, but then again the 2 screens on 1 tv would have to be cut down and also you would still have to keep looking at your DS on a lot of games becuase of the touch screen so its kinda pointless in some ways! still, for games like n4su2 and mario 64 wud be mint!!!!!!!!!

    OK, given that the majority of the posts look a lot like that one, why the hell would anyone with half a brain take this seriously? It's obviously just interference coming from an improperly shielded cable. I'm sure the FCC will have something to say about this--well, they would if Michael Powell weren't so busy acting as the Christian right's moralistic attack dog, anyway...

    • -1 Flamebait

      The increased fines were levied by the Democrat on the FCC's board, not Michael Powell.

      Controlling the airwaves is a bipartisan "effort."

  • When I turn on my microwave... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vasqzr ( 619165 ) <vasqzr@@@netscape...net> on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @10:53AM (#10963462)

    I get funny lines on my TV. Same goes for the dehumidifier.

    Gonna recall those, too?

    • You get funny lines on your dehumidifier when you turn on the microwave? Weird.

    • Re:When I turn on my microwave... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Not if the artifacts are due to line noise in your AC mains, as opposed to the device itself emitting RF. This is most likely the case, and it isn't the device manufacturer's problem if you have bad wiring.

      Naturally, this couldn't possibly be the case for the battery-powered DS producing a likeness of the screen image. Like it or not, this will probably be a problem for Nintendo and its users.

      • Why is it a problem for _some_ users? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @11:25AM (#10963742)
        And why is this not a problem for ALL owners of the DS? I'm guessing it's because the people who are bitching about the interference have cheapass television sets, which don't have enough shielding to protect them from interference.

        The shielding is supposed to protect other devices from being harmed by the emitter, but it's also supposed to protect the emitter from things that don't have shielding around them (power cables, speakers, etc.). If a television set doesn't have adequate shielding, it won't only interfere with other devices, it will be easier to interfere with.
        • Someone mod the parent and GP up, they are correctly answering the question but are AC (and currently at zero).
        • It's only a "problem" for DS owners who've managed to dig up old (and likely more poorly shielded) televisions, with rabbit ears, and then play with the DS two inches away from the antenna. Hardly something the FCC would be concerned about.

          Even then, I'm still skeptical about the claims that the noise seen on the television screen at all resembles the contents of the DS screens -- anyone skilled at signal processing care to speculate on that? The DS' two screens both have a resolution of 256x192 pixels.
        • How the hell do you shield a television? You shield something by putting it in a metal box. Hell yeah, lets shield the TV by putting the tube in a metal box. That'll work well. Only thing is, I won't be able to see it!

          A CRT works by glowing when you interfere with the glass end electromagnetically. Hence, you can't shield the glass end, or you can't interfere with it from the inside.

          Note that you can shield the tuner, but that won't help completely. Hence even if you've got a shielded tuner, and you
        • The rules (part 15, as you can see on ANY electronic device in your house) are that the device may not cause any harmful interference and must not accept any it receives. So while a TV might be in violation too, the DS clearly is, because it does cause harmful interference. This is clearly illegal, dangerous (imagine a DS in a hospital or a nuclear submarine, if you permit me some exaggeration) and should be banned, recalled and destroyed. The company should be fined and anally probed. This is really unacce
      • It also could be do to something ALOT simpler called reflections on the cable itself. If they didn't do a good job at matching their output to 75 ohms (assuming they're using cable to hookup to the TV), it could just be a reflection on the cable itself causing the ghosting. This is an effect similar to what multi-path looks like on an over-the air broadcast (though a completely different cause.)
    • Is your microwave licensed under FCC Class B? If it is, it's not supposed to do that. Class A-licensed parts, however, *can* do that.

      RTFM.
  • Just don't play by a TV or shield it yourself or something. I think it would be pretty cool to see a ghostly image of your DS on the screen either way.

    • Re:Shield it yourself (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Oh great, now I need tinfoil for my TV too. This is just the MAN trying to bankrupt me by increasing my need for tinfoil.

  • WOW, L33T! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @11:16AM (#10963653)
    This is clearly intentional, doodz and this is how it happens.

    The DS uses super-sekrit rays which come out of the batteries (or maybe the thumbpad i dont no im just a leet), which beam to a satellite near the moon which nintendo has which then transmits to your tv. It works even with your radio, makes pictures on the screen if u dont have 1 u need a dot matrix printer it workz with those 2.

    This is uber, we can use a HANDHELD on the TV! I think we shud make a mod so we can take the screenz off the DS and put in a bigscreen TV insted! r0xx0r!

  • Excerpt from Nintendo's Press Release.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @11:21AM (#10963703)
    "It has been discovered that portions of a recent batch of DS units were accidentally exposed to a paranormal mutagenic agent before shipment.

    The unfortunate result is that some DS units are possessed by demonic spirits, and have been known to display erratic behavior, including but not limited to: emitting strange ghost signals, shooting protoplasm, and spontaneously opening dimensional rifts to hell.

    If you have experienced any of these irregularities yourself, we apologize for the inconvenience. Please mail your DS to our new Exorcist Repairs Department and we will repair it free of charge."

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @11:25AM (#10963737)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Bookmark (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Keebler71 ( 520908 )
    I'll need to bookmark this story for the next time someone claims FAA regulations against mobile devices serves no purpose...
    • They do serve no purpose. The airlines can just as easily make rules prohibiting their use, and the electronics companices can make properly sheilded devices. Putting the government in the loop only slows the feedback process down.

      • Re:Bookmark (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Keebler71 ( 520908 )
        The airlines can just as easily make rules prohibiting their use, and the electronics companices can make properly sheilded devices.

        I don't like to throw down credentials for fear of sounding like a braggart but in this case it is relevant. I am a test pilot (or more specificly a test NFO). For a living, I flight test new equipment on military aircraft. Every time a new piece of equipment is introduced, the aircraft and new equipment must go through varying levels of EMC/EMI/TEMPEST testing. Devices th

        • I think you don't understand my point. The airline itself has the power to require its passengers to not use those devices under the same rules the FAA sets or their own rules that they deam safer. Having the government also create and enforce rules is redundant and creates hidden costs. There is no benefit provided to consumers by the government regulation. None of what you have said changes this. All of the problems you pretend will suddenly crop up exist today: government regulation doesn't magically mak

  • ahhh.Cryptonomicron reminders (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AgentGray ( 200299 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @11:44AM (#10963926) Homepage
    Wasn't this called VanEck Phreaking or something like that when you could see what was broadcasted on the screen from one computer to another?

    It was a scene in Cryptonomicron, I believe.

  • I didn't notice this issue, but I did notice one weird thing with mine. When I have the volume up all the way it interferes with the actual display on the LCDs. It gets a little wavy.

  • Doesn't make sense (Score:5, Informative)

    by dfj225 ( 587560 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @12:27PM (#10964388) Homepage Journal
    Ok IANAEE but I believe one poster said he saw an image of Mario in his TV. Now, to my understanding his TV was analogue and the DS is entirely digital. It might make sense to see lines or other noise, but projecting the image seems impossible. I'm not buying it...most TVs get interference from microwaves or vaccuum cleaners or other high powered devices, I have a hard time believing that the DS, which is a low powered DC, digital device would interfere with a television.
    • The only way it could happen, would be if the screens were analog. That would mean the DS would generate a TV signal (just like a normal console) and that signal was sent up to the LCD unit where it was then decoded and displayed (like an LCD TV). That's unneccessary and probably more expensive. So unless that's the case (and the wire/trace that carries the signal is radiating at a specific frequency that the TV can pick up (say channel 3 VHF)) then I'm with you and call bunk.

      Lines, wavyness, causing ghost

    • Re:Doesn't make sense (Score:5, Interesting)

      by GoRK ( 10018 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @04:29PM (#10967440) Homepage Journal
      Even if the screen is driven digitally, it's still serially updated. If the timings are in sync enough to 60hz (or 30Hz even), then you could get some kind of semblance of an image on your TV (59.97Hz) from the interference. This is proably likely, too, since most games are striving to run at 30-60Hz. Maybe you don't get an image all the time as the framerate is not always high enough to reach 60Hz updates -- this is further backed by the evidence of people only getting decent screenshots of things like menus, etc. where there are low poly counts and the hardware can easily manage a constant 60fps.
      • The DS screens refresh at 60Hz. Period. It's the same with a PC: you refresh your monitor at 60, 75 or 85Hz perhaps. It's constant and doesn't depend on either the CPU or GPU load. Besides, the DS uses a line buffer (and not a frame buffer). If the rendering engine can't follow, lines will drop, but the refresh rate will still be 60Hz.
    • It's likely that the chip ultimately responsible for the display is not quite a custom fab and contains both an LCD driver and also an S-Video/Composite output as well.
      Sort of like how every Radeon chip has a DVI, VGA-RGBA and S-Video outputs, even if not all three are enabled on various models.
      There could be a trace with no terminating connector inside that if held near a TV, could radiate that signal to be picked up somewhere after the RF-baseband but before being amplified... or something like that.
    • perhaps its like the woman who claimed to see the virgin mary in her grilled cheese sandwich (Which recently sold on ebay for an absurd sum of money) .. point is.. people see what they want to.
  • As a frequent airplane traveller and lover of handheld gaming, the NDS concerns me. I know any device which emits a signal (wireless devices, cell phones espcially) are BANNED for usage on airplanes because they can interfear with the airplane's equipment.

    Apparently, the issue is sereous enough that the Nokia N-Gage includes a special "airplane" mode that will not emit any such signals.

    Back to the DS, using it on airplanes worries me. I do not think you can turn off the wireless, and last I checked it was

    • Re:Using the NDS on an airplane (Score:5, Informative)

      by The Evil Couch ( 621105 ) on Wednesday December 01, 2004 @02:28PM (#10965689) Homepage
      I used to be an airborne Ranger. While prepping our equipment during an airborne operation, a lot of times, guys would be doing radio checks as well as using their radios to communicate with guys in other airplanes and guys that were already on the ground.

      We're talking radios with 5 watt transmit power, minimum. If we weren't screwing up instruments then, I have a really hard time believing that low-power interferrence is that big of a problem. instruments have to be pretty on, or we'd have a misdrop and drop in some farmer's field or something, which didn't happen, so I'm pretty sure we didn't screw them up badly, if at all.

      I'm pretty sure that the FAA is just paranoid about their restrictions.

      I wouldn't worry about playing games on airplanes.

    • If cellphones were any danger to airplane equipment, how come they aren't collected by the crew before takeoff and given back after landing?

      I've read somewhere that Airbus is actually working on a way to use cellphones on their airplanes, by having a small "basestation" or whatever they're called on board and transmitting the signal via satellite.

      The same article mentioned that cellphones onboard an airplane are actually prohibited because it would seriously confuse the network when a few hundred cell
      • Cellphones regulate their output power according to the received signal strength; if Airbus put a base station on board that lets any cellphone register with it, the phones will select the lowest power level that lets them talk to the base station.

        Thus, it could be true that at full power (which can be set for as much as 35km line of sight), cellphones would interfere with the plane's electronics, but at the power levels needed to communicate within a plane (considerably less than 1km) the phone is not pro

  • So, does this mean that if I use a DS near my TV it'll suddenly become a touchscreen TV? I've always wanted one of those...
  • the affects of these anamolous waves, it also protects you from other nasty waves as well HERE [zapatopi.net]
  • If this is true, then it's likely that airlines or the FAA will ban the DS due to communication concerns. I just hope they don't use this as an excuse to ban all game systems. On the other hand they have been becoming more relaxed recently regarding electronics, so this might not even be an issue.
  • I thought the DS used a lcd. A lot of people always want to reuse their old laptop LCD's and have to be told that sadly this is not possible because LCD's need special hardware to get them to work. This hardware is an integral part of you laptop.

    Unless the DS has a tv out why should it ever generate a tv signal? It simply computes a screen and sends it to the lcd. The only way they would have a tv signal is if the computer first generates a digital image, this is then converted to a analog signal (this sig


  • Televisions fall under FCC Part B rules. If they pick up stray interference, they are required to "accept the situation". It is the responsibility of the manufacturer and consumer/owner to create a tv less susceptible to interference and/or to adjust their antenna/cable/etc accordingly. The TV owner has no recourse.

    The DS is only afoul of FCC rules if it interferences with licensed radio reception equipment(Public safetly, aircraft, ham, etc...).

    If somehow it was powerful enough to interfere with the actu
  • I am really really stupid Sad I have an atena on my tv and I shoved it in the headphone jack and my DS froze Crying or Very sad but then im turned it off and on again then it was ok Smile But now every time it turns on and off it makes more of a click sound Confused -this is one of the funniest things I have ever seen
  • I wonder if this has anything to do with it? http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000997020865/ [joystiq.com]

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