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Portables (Games) Hardware

Nintendo DS Modded to Play GB and GBC Carts 94

Posted by Zonk from the original-tetris-on-the-DS- dept.
Steve E. writes "Apparently someone has made the first hardware mod to the Nintendo DS. An entry over at the Nintendo DS Livejournal Community gives detailed instructions on how to modify a DS to play legacy cartridges." From the post: "1. Disassemble your Nintendo DS. This step is fairly self explanatory, if you can't figure out how to take your DS apart, you should stop here."
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Nintendo DS Modded to Play GB and GBC Carts More

Nintendo DS Modded to Play GB and GBC Carts

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  • I am suspicious... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Eshock ( 646544 )
    This seems a little suspect, in order for this to work Nintendo would have had to have included the GBC chipset on the DS, then disabled it for some reason. It can't be done via emulation because of voltage differences between GBA and GB carts.

    • Re:I am suspicious... (Score:4, Informative)

      by GoRK ( 10018 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @06:16PM (#11076404) Homepage Journal
      The Z80 CPU of the GB/GBC is basically built into the silicon of the GBA processor. It has really nothing to do with being a seperate chip of any sort. The modification works because the DS in "GBA Mode" is hardware identical to a GBA. The only other difference is that GB/GBC carts take 5V instead of 3V, which it appears is the main function of the jumper wires in this mod.

      It's likely though that after nintendo burns up their (presumable) back stock or order commitments of GBA CPU's that they will switch to a CPU that does not contain these extra elements and this modification may become impossible.
      • Or they were planning on offerign some sort of stacked-cart like the old Game Genie as a "special offer" for legacy players - something very few will want, but might pay a lot for.

        How about a mod to get back the support for the GBA link cable games? That feature-death was a nasty one. Of course I'm being unrealistic - that's most likely impossible due to different architecture.

        • Adapters (Score:3, Informative)

          by tepples ( 727027 )

          Or they were planning on offerign some sort of stacked-cart like the old Game Genie as a "special offer" for legacy players - something very few will want, but might pay a lot for.

          It has a history:

          • Sega Power Base Converter to play Master System games on Genesis/Mega Drive and a similar attachment to play Master System games on Game Gear.
          • Super Game Boy to play Game Boy games on Super NES/Super Famicom. A few Game Boy games even had enhancements specifically for Super Game Boy.
          • Game Boy Player to pla
          • Game Boy Player to play almost all Game Boy, GBC, and GBA games on GameCube, but a few video-heavy GBA titles intentionally freeze on Game Boy Player because the publisher doesn't want people videotaping the FMVs.

            That's interesting. What games are known for this?
          • I think it's less about videotaping and more about publishing rights. The publishers pushing the DVDs wouldn't appreciate someone selling "their" shows on GBA carts.

            • I think [GBA Video titles freezing on Game Boy Player is] less about videotaping and more about publishing rights.

              I suspected that too until I read this [nintendo.com]:

              Because the Game Boy Player can be attached to a VCR or DVD recorder, the ability to play Game Boy Advance Videos was disabled to prevent illegal copying of Game Boy Video material.

              Unlike on the Xbox and PlayStation 2, there is no Macrovision chip in the GameCube.

      • Also, the Z80, while *very* useful, it's a relatively simple and cheap part to build, buy, or implement into the silicon of another chip. I think the design is even copyright-free by now.
    • oops, I guess you can shut up now
  • While the ability to play advance games was nice, one thing that really held me back from getting a DS thus far is my large collection of classic Gameboy games (many of which are still very fun! Link's Awakening anyone?).

    This isn't the type of news that is gonna make me run out and buy a DS immediately, but it is enough for me to give it consideration next time I decide to spend over a hundreds bucks on a toy.

    • Why don't you just wait for an emulator?

      You may be out of luck for GBC games, but there is a rather good GB emulator (Goomba [webpersona.com]) that you can load onto a GBA flash cart with all your games. That is, unless Nintendo has done something to the DS to make it not read GBA flash carts.

      • Nintendo DS reads GBA flash carts just fine, so Goomba works as well on a DS as on a GBA. Two caveats:

        • Flash2Advance and EZFA flash carts are ordinarily written to through a cable connected to the GBA's link port. The GBA, GBA SP, and GameCube Game Boy Player have this port, but the DS doesn't. I'd suggest buying the EFA (Extreme Flash Advance), which is written to through a connector on the cart itself. if you want to run PocketNES and Goomba on a Nintendo DS.
        • There exists no publicly known way for GBA
    • "one thing that really held me back from getting a DS thus far is my large collection of classic Gameboy games"

      WTF? Do you have a ceremonial hammer you smash your old consoles with whenever you get a new one? Is your SP going to vanish into thin air the moment you get your receipt for your DS from the store clerk? Or do people actually go through those "Trade in your old system and save $0.02!" deals at EB?

      The DS isn't supposed to replace or compete with the GBA, it's supposed to be "something else."

      • Do you have a ceremonial hammer you smash your old consoles with whenever you get a new one?

        Maybe he just wants to bring only ONE console with him when he travels...

        The DS isn't supposed to replace or compete with the GBA, it's supposed to be "something else."

        Nonsense. That's what nintendo says. They're both mobile gaming platforms, therefore they compete. If I want one of these, I will decide for one of them. I won't buy both "completely different platforms". They are definitely competitors.
      • Remember the saying, "When all you have is a ceremonial hammer, everything looks like an obsolete nail."

        *SMASH*
    • We got my mom a new Gameboy Advance SP for Christmas. My mom loved her gameboy classic and the only game she plays is Tetris. Problem is her Gameboy classic died and, well, she needed a new one.

      It will be the only game ever played on that Gameboy Advance... You can tell me what you want, but Tetris hasn't been beaten in playability ever since it appeared on the Gameboy classic. A Gameboy DS would be useless for my mom.

  • You can pick up 2nd hand Gb and GbC units for under $20 bucks... why bother?

    Sounds like another case of Y?BIC (why? because I Can) or DSOTAOS (Do Something Outrageous So I can appear on Slashdot)...

    • Re:Why?? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pluke ( 801200 )
      It's very nice to have one machine that does everything. I would be interested in seeing if Nintendo did anything special for the GB and GBC games playing environments like they did for for the GBA. I wonder if they are going to phase it in as the GBA is slowly phased out. Is the GB and GBC hardware actually used by the DS to support anything else, ala MegaDrive (Genesis for my american friends) and its sounds processor being the old mastersystem processor?
      • No; the extra junk needed to support the GB/GBC (Mainly just a Z80 core) is not active at all with a GBA game. The z80 core cannot be accessed in any way from the "GBA side".

        As I said in another post, they probably plan on dropping the current GBA processor in the DS in favor of one without the vestigal Z80 stuff in a future hardware revision, so this modification may not continue to work until they run out of their current stock or order commitments on the chip.
        • Maybe or maybe not. The original Z80 probably takes very few transistors. And in order to make a new ASIC, it will cost at least $100K. If the processor is actual custom silicon, and not just an ASIC, then the cost of the new processor will be much higher! I know that they will make a million of these things, but it might just be cheaper to keep what you have, rather than re-spin in order to save $0.05 per unit.

          Also, if they expect to build the GBA-SP for a while, it also makes sense to have one invent

    • Re:Why?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Goosey ( 654680 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @06:19PM (#11076430) Homepage
      If you have a DS, or want a DS for playing DS/GBA games... But you also have GB/GBC games then why would you want to carry two handhelds around when you could only carry one?

      Not to mention the article also includes a tip on increasing the wifi range, which certainly seems useful regardless of if you are interested in GB/GBC games or not.

      Sounds to me like another case of CBIMCAE (Complaining because I must complain about everything)
    • What do IBC root beer and Tostadas have to do with anything?

  • Fake crap (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Just FYI it was deleted from a moderator of that community because it's bullcrap.

  • Joke? (Score:5, Informative)

    by eikonoklastes ( 530797 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @06:25PM (#11076491) Journal
    From livejournal.com [livejournal.com]
    I don't want to hear any more non-sense about DS being able to be modded to play GB/GBC games. This is nothing by krap. Why? Well, grounding an already grounded wire and grounding the antenna isn't going to get you anywhere my friends. the pictures where taken from http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3530. The voltages do not match between the DS/GBA and the GB/GBC. Remember how the GBA units had a physical switched that was pressed when you inserted a class game? This switch turned off the ARM7 CPU, turned on the Z80 CPU, upped the cart voltage from 3.3v to 5v, and changed the wiring configuration used on the link port. Grounding an already grounded pin on the cart and grounding the DS's antenna, how exactly will that accomplish all of this anyways? ITS NON-SENSE!!!

    • Re:Joke? (Score:3, Informative)

      by eikonoklastes ( 530797 )
      Follow the thread... [livejournal.com]

    • Re:Joke? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by lewiscr ( 3314 )
      Responding here, since I don't want to register to post at LiveJournal. For what it's worth, I have no idea at all about the DS or GBA. I don't own either and don't plan on it. IAAEE (Electrical. Engr.)

      I agree that the post sounds suspicious, but I'd like to play devils advocate. The refutation sounds almost as suspicious as the orginal post.

      > Well, grounding an already grounded wire and grounding the antenna isn't going to get you anywhere my friends.

      That depends on the current involved and the c

      • That depends on the current involved and the capacity of the traces. The extra current drain might be required to handle running the cart at 5V instead of 3.3V.

        HIGHLY unlikely -- even 5mil traces can handle enough current to take care of the return path for a 5V cartridge that is composed of a ROM and some memory decode logic. Not a nice way to ground a system but certainly workable.

        I can't think of a good reason for grounding the antenna, but I can think of some plausible areas to investigate. Sin

    • Re:Joke? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Eil ( 82413 ) on Monday December 13, 2004 @09:00PM (#11077743) Homepage Journal
      And will ruin your DS, thereby voiding the warranty.

      This is a NON-STORY and Zonk, the editor, should have some common sense beaten into him for posting it to the main page.

  • Bad News and Good News (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 13, 2004 @06:47PM (#11076709)
    The bad news is this story is BS.

    The good news is, you can play GB and GBC games on a DS if you have a flash cart. ...And you can take that to the bank!
    • With what, an emulator? The only news I'd heard so far was that you could use GBA flashcards in a DS to play GBA games.
      • Why not?

        Its all code. It shouldn't be that difficult to write a gba rom that wraps gb(c) roms.

        What I wonder is if you can programmically access the data in the GBA slot with the NDS game image.

        If so it could open up a whole range of options for coolness. (Like an mp3 player NDS cartridge that uses GBA cartridges as disks.)

        • It shouldn't be that difficult to write a gba rom that wraps gb(c) roms.

          There is such an emulator [webpersona.com] for Game Boy mono ROMs, but it doesn't support GBC-only (transparent plastic) titles.

          (Like an mp3 player NDS cartridge that uses GBA cartridges as disks.)

          If you just want to play music from a flash cart on your Nintendo DS, you don't need to go into DS mode. Get GSM Player [pineight.com], which works on anything that can play GBA flash carts, and fit 150 minutes of music on one 256 Mbit cart (or less if you have gam

      • There are some free homebrew GB and GBC emulators written for the GBA. I always thought a project like that was redundant, but now it seems to have merrit. Basically, you can play GB and GBC games, just not from the carts. You have the have the roms on your flash linker.
        • The limitation here is processing power. I honestly have no idea if the GB/GBC games ran well on the GBA using an emulator, but the natural solution here would be to use the DS processor for these things, not the GBA processor. But since the GBA flash carts only seem to have access to the GBA processor, I guess we'll have to wait for a DS-specific flash cart. If it's even possible. Do they make flash memory that small? Time will tell.

          • Two solutions are being explored on dsdev.org forums [gbadev.org]:

            • crack the encryption on the Nintendo DS cart bus, and make a cart that loads DS code from a flash cart in the GBA slot, or
            • figure out how to boot the DS from Wi-Fi, and then make a small dongle that boots the DS with a program that loads DS code from a flash cart in the GBA slot.
            • Following links fom within there, it appears that the DS's encryption has been hacked (Just today even), and working cart readers have been made. So progress is being made.
    • More good news is you can play NES games, movies, music, pictures, and Ebook's if you have the gameboy advance movie player [movieadvance.com]. It works flawlessly in the DS, and is cheap as hell. And lik-sang got it to me in 2 days from hong kong w00t!
  • The story is indeed a fake, that was so short lived that no one even seem to have a mirror of the original page around.

    Yet it got published on slashdot, apparently deemed worthy of it based only on a weblog entry by some random guy, and a few guy backing his assertions.
    Even with a defective bullshit detector, the absence of any picture attempting to proving that it indeed worked should have been enough to warrant at least a little wait for some kind of proof before slashdotting this.

    Now for a mandatory te
  • I was looking forward to GB and GBC games _finally_ droping in price a bit (you'll still plunk down $30 bucks for a MegaMan game at a lot of places). When I bought my GBA, I was looking forward to lots of cheap, $5 dollar games. These days I'm lucky to find something for $15....

  • Indeed a hoax. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Spykk ( 823586 )
    He came back with pictures after being accused of lying, but they have been debunked. Info avaialable here [livejournal.com].
  • Here's the instructions [livejournal.com], complete with pictures. Here's the debunking [livejournal.com].

    If you're too lazy to read the debunking, here's the rundown. You have to break your serial number sticker to even get at the screws to open the DS, and the pictures don't show a broken sticker. As for the screenshots with Pokemon running, they're taken using an emulator called Goomba. You'll notice that the game supposively running on the DS isn't colorized even though the GBA automatically colorizes GB games. Goomba doesn't.

    Mos

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