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GameCube (Games) Editorial

Sticking up for Nintendo 109

Posted by Zonk from the i've-always-had-mario's-back dept.
Reader jasoncart wrote in to give us a heads up on an editorial over on Ferrago. In it, the author defends Nintendo from its numerous detractors. From the article: "I love Nintendo and make no apology for it. I admit still that they annoy me like no other company in the gaming world. They can be at times simply utterly frustrating, I know that too well, but how shall I put it? Love is true but comes at a price. It's the one that is closest to you that can hurt you most."
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Sticking up for Nintendo More

Sticking up for Nintendo

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  • *Applause*
    • I agree, I'm sick of the "Nintendo is for kids" attitude many gamers have. It seems there are two kinds of people who say this too: Kids who think playing mature games makes them more mature and people who have never sat down to play Mario or Zelda because they won't look beyond the graphics.
  • Fanboyism is lame. I have to admit that Nintendo does a good job of designing great games, but they also do allot of bad things and have some gamers that are just average (though no stinkers). Nintendo's biggest failures are, roughly in order:

    0. All of the lame censorship starting with the NES.

    1. Error-proned front loading NES when Japanese version was top-loading.

    2. All of the evil empire crap surrounding Tetris at the time of the NES. Atari *cough* I mean Tengen's version was better.

    3. Hell, all of
    • And anything relating to this century, or the article?
    • 8. Most stuff related to the N64. A few good games is not enough.

      But there were many great games, my collection has around 15 or so, and there are plenty i simply didnt buy due to lack of money (i was a teenager when the n64 came out). I, as well as many (but not all) consider The Ocarina of Time to be the best game ever made, on any platform. Just for that and Goldeneye 007 (at the time anyway) made the N64 and awsome console. I recently bought a PS2 just because of "a few good games", namely San andreas,
      • Goldeneye wasn't that great for its time. It was over shadowed by Quake on the PC. 4 player split screen versus 32+ players over the net... hmmmm.... I think the PC had the upper hand there. Of course, if you are only comparing amongst consoles, Goldeneye was pretty good for its time, since consoles didn't get a better FPS until Halo.
        • Excluding LAN parties, Goldeneye was probably the most fun game I'd ever played with a group of friends. There's just something about being in the same room with your buddies while watching them get caught by proximity mines in "The Stack."
    • "0. All of the lame censorship starting with the NES."

      They reversed that policy after a bunch of grumbling by their customers. Okay, the censorship sucked, but at least they listened to their customers instead of going merrily on their arrogant way.

      "4. Delaying the release of the SNES, allowing Sega to get a few breathes of air."

      I don't know the reasons for delaying the SNES, but I doubt they did it because they wanted to see better profits.

      "8. Most stuff related to the N64. A few good games is not
      • I don't care how the N64 sold. I bought one the very day it was released in the states, and I was really let down. Also, Nintendo didn't listen to their customers throughout the entire 8-bit generation and more than half of the 16-bit generation, with regards to lame censorship. So they did go merrily on their arrogant way for about 10 years! That is a really long time when you are talking about video games.

        Finally, Nintendo delayed the release of the SNES, because they wanted to further milk the NES.
        • "I don't care how the N64 sold. I bought one the very day it was released in the states, and I was really let down. "

          To each is own. I was let down by the PS1.

          " Also, Nintendo didn't listen to their customers throughout the entire 8-bit generation and more than half of the 16-bit generation, with regards to lame censorship."

          Mortal Kombat is what drove Nintendo's reversal, and it had a rather solid reason for having the blood etc. Maybe I'm just too young to remember, but I don't recall any particula

          • David Sheff's Game Over [amazon.com] pretty well confirms that Nintendo didn't want to leave the NES hardware, and probably wouldn't have if not for the success of the Genesis and the PC Engine (in Japan). That's just part of Nintendo's traditional design policies: they never, ever upgrade hardware until customer complaints and competition force them to.

    • "Error-proned front loading NES when Japanese version was top-loading."

      The original Famicom looks like a toy, something that wouldn't sell stateside. Making it look more "grown up" (loading like a VCR) was part of the same strategy that avoided the use of the phrase "video game" at all costs (NES instead of NVGS). We're talking about the '80's gaming crash, for cryin' out loud!

      If you want to complain about poor design choices, complain about the NES-101 RF-only output, while the A/V Famicom was... well
      • Two lines back you complain about Nintendo being too cut-throat, and now you're unhappy they weren't cut-throat enough?

        I didn't see any complaining in the post you're replying to, simply a list of Nintendo failures.

        It's beginning to seem that Sony has now lost Square Enix to Nintendo nowadays

        Why's that? Because Square released a crappy game for the GC so they could get into the portable market? Square cares about money, not Nintendo.

        Nintendo's continued existence in the hardware wars suggest other
        • Nintendo's continued existence these days has to do with the Gameboy line and Pokemon. Both lines of products that I must admit, I enjoy. Yes, Pokemon is fun if you realize that it is just a game and its existence is just for that very reason... not to be cool.
        • I didn't see any complaining in the post you're replying to, simply a list of Nintendo failures.

          I think Guppy06 was taking about this:

          3. Hell, all of the evil empire crap surrounding the NES and even the Gameboy. (Too cut-throat)

          4. Delaying the release of the SNES, allowing Sega to get a few breathes of air. (Not cut-throat enough)
    • The videogame industry was completely killed by atari and its kin.

      Nintendo started over, with the right business model, and great games.

      If not for nintendo, you simply wouldn't be playing the great games we have today.

      We owe the industry to them.

      Period.
    • Fanboyism is lame.

      Indeed. But one should also take care to avoid anti-fanboyism, tearing something down specifically because it looks like it needs tearing.

      Nintendo's iron-fisted behavior back with NES licensing is ancient history these days. Their Tetris actions are defendable, since Atari didn't technically have the legal right to make a console version of the game. Delaying the SNES may have been a mistake from their view, but not from ours, since we got to see a good number of very nice Genesis ga

      • This, in fact, could be one of the biggest things working against them. Since they make their own sellers, that tends to mean they don't need to worry about giving third-parties a good deal, which means fewer overall games, which leads to a perception that there are not a lot of titles for the system.

        You're right, but I think your conclusion is a bit off. The real problem seems to be rather that except in the case of some phenomenal exclusive, Nintendo console owners routinely send Nintendo releases th

        • The real problem seems to be rather that except in the case of some phenomenal exclusive, Nintendo console owners routinely send Nintendo releases through the roof in sales while ignoring third-party games, regardless of how good they are.

          I'm not certain this is the case.

          Case in point: Arguably the best US DS launch title was Sega's Feel the Magic, but despite positive impressions almost everywhere you went, it was criminally undersold compared to Super Mario 64 DS, a remake of an old game that really w
        • Case in point: Arguably the best US DS launch title was Sega's Feel the Magic, but despite positive impressions almost everywhere you went, it was criminally undersold compared to Super Mario 64 DS, a remake of an old game that really wasn't all that suited for the DS to begin with.

          I own them both, and the minigames in SuperMario 64 DS beat Feel the Magic by themselves. FTM is an OK game, and it has a lot of personality, but SM64DS has more lasting value. I've spent more time on the Mario trampoline mini-
    • You know someone's a REAL geek when they start their numbered lists with zero.

  • Nintendo for kids? Rubbish. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sc0ttyb ( 833038 ) * on Wednesday December 15, 2004 @11:12AM (#11092936)
    "It's true that in principle they're often stuck in the past and as a result their releases are losing popularity with the modern wave of gamers but that doesn't in any way mean that their games are bad."


    Stuck in the past, huh? I'm sorry, but I have enjoyed every single Mario/Zelda/Metroid game that's been released. Each of them have their charm.

    The cool thing about Nintendo games using these classic franchises is that almost each iteration introduces a new gameplay mechanic that's not gimmicky, but is actually relevant to the gameplay. That's the thing: with classic franchises, they almost always try to spice it up.

    Take the Metroid Prime series (there's 2, so why not call it a series?) for instance. It could have simply been your standard FPS in a power suit. But they actually took everything that made Metroid what it is and converted it to a 3D world full of life and detail. They are easily some the best first-person console games I've ever played. Normally I shy away from FPS on the consoles because of their unnatural feel with a controller. These games were easy to pick up and just start playing.

    That's something else Nintendo games are known for. You can just pick up a controller and start playing the game. You don't have to read a 5-pound manual first for all the key-mappings and whatnot. The accessibility of Nintendo games is second to none.

    Just because some of their games might have bright colors and happy music does not -- I repeat, NOT -- mean they're just for kids. Super Mario Sunshine had some pretty challenging (in a fun way) moments, as did Mario 64, Super Mario World, and even Mario 3 before that.

    Wind Waker was another game that got chastised for its "kiddy" look. If graphics are all you base a game's worth on (DOOM 3, anyone?), then I feel sorry for you. Wind Waker was incredibly fun, despite its cel-shaded look. It was done for a reason, and it fits in perfectly with the theme of the game. Besides, the new Zelda game features a mature Link, which I know I've missed since Ocarina of Time. Hell, since Adventure of Link, for that matter.

    The kiddy argument just doesn't fly. I think a lot of people say that because Nintendo is almost synonymous with "growing up". I played the NES growing up, and I still buy every console Nintendo makes. Why? They make great games, and they have yet to let me down in that department, even if they do frustrate the ever-loving piss out of me.
    • I just wish nintendo would come out with some adult (or at least more mature games). sure, keep the fun graphics and music, but throw in more mature themes.

      My favourite things about nintendo (aside from reminding me of my youth with the franchises...) is that yes, I can just pick it up and play for a little while, then turn it off. Sure, some games (final fantasy) require a little more time, but still, you can play it for a couple minutes if you wanna rack up some XP.

      I love warioware for that reason. Man,
      • You mean like Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil, or the new Zelda?
        • no, I mean like made in warioXXX

          having more mature graphics != more mature content...

          and my point was more mature titles that you can just pick up and play... resident evil is a crap series.
      • I can understand the desire for Nintendo to push for a more adult market, but I sort of view it like this - sometimes in art the more restrictions you put on yourself, the more free you actually become. I think theres a lot to be said for the company keeping its games accessible to most everybody. Most of their games aren't really kiddy in the sense that someone over the age of 12 wouldn't be interested - they just have a pretty decent all ages appeal. They might not always have the best graphics/sound/sto
    • This is the kind of story where there's no really interesting comments because the vast majority of Slashdotters are huge Nintendo fans, and any post even mentioning another game console in a positive fashion is likely to be modded down. Anybody opposed to the article will not post because posting in a topic like this is utterly useless. (I mean, people thought that the politics comments were biased... it's nothing to the gaming section.)

      Comment: I bought an XBox because the GameCube couldn't play DVDs
      • Yeah, I've never gotten into those console wars because I don't have loyalty to the systems themselves, but rather the games/franchises on those system.

        When I'd already purchased a PS2 and a Gamecube, I got an X-Box simply because of Ninja Gaiden. That's another old franchise from the past that I love, and since I had read a lot of "professional" and player reviews of the game with very positive feedback, I figured it was time to get one. By the time Ninja Gaiden was released, the price had come down a g
        • If a game I really want to play comes out for more than one console simultaneously, I tend to get the PS2 or Gamecube version instead of the X-Box version.

          Even if the XBox version has better graphics or more features? (Which 95% of the time it does. Except in the cases of Godzilla games.)

          I've played Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time on all platforms, and I can tell you without a doubt that the XBox version is the best all-around. The controls are superior, the graphics are much superior, and it incl
  • Let me see if I can find an article about some guy praising Sony and another praising MS then slashdot them all, thats the only way I can think of keeping our supposed "unbiased" status here in slashdot.

    Seriously guys I can definetily understand why to bash MS and the xbox , but sony? other than evercrack what harm have they done to the geek open source community? (slashdot) as far as I know they use linux to code ps2 games didnt you knew that? and every geek I know has a soft spot for cool electronics
    • "but sony? other than evercrack what harm have they done to the geek open source community?"

      I have eight letters to answer that question with:
      MPAA
      RIAA
    • Why they didnt made a portable gamecube with a miniDVD disk instead?

      Because with optical disc drives in a handheld, you have this problem where the drive opens for no reason during game play [slashdot.org].
    • Slashdot... unbiased. Hahahahaha. That's funny... really, really, really funny.

      Sony has had the most underpowered and lowest build quality console for their entire gaming history. The PS1 couldn't push as many polys or texture as well as the N64 could(and the N64 was the first console to support mipmapping), it just wasn't cart based and had enormously larger storage capacity. The PS2 is the lowest powered console of the current generation(yet is priced in the upper tier of console prices), even the Dr

    • Re:slow news day uh? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Guppy06 ( 410832 )
      "as far as I know they use linux to code ps2 games didnt you knew that?"

      First off, when did Linux become a programming language?

      Secondly, what's the point of using open source software when you need to sell your soul to get the SDK? I've tinkered with a lot of homebrewed PS2 software and none of it involved getting Sony's SDK or even "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" as far as I can tell.

      "and every geek I know has a soft spot for cool electronics and thats what sony is all about,"

      Then I'm correct in assum
      • While I really don't mind you putting down that one guy and probably agree with some of your points...what's the deal with the whole HDTV thing? Just because I like having a fantastic picture you think I put stickers on my car? How are they even slightly related? HDTV is cool technology, it is the future of television. Putting stickers on your car to make it look cooler or faster...that's idiotic and has nothing to do with technology. I don't know if you are bitter because you can't afford the technolo

    • Re:slow news day uh? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MilenCent ( 219397 )
      but sony? other than evercrack what harm have they done to the geek open source community?

      Slashdot is a lot more than the open source community. They did release a PS2 version of Linux, but they still made sure to keep their own proprietary layer running beneath it, which was missing the point.

      The people who don't like Sony do it because:

      A. They are a huge company and it's very easy to hate them (even rightfully) for that, and

      B. They have worse games, on the average, than Nintendo.

      Do not underestimat
      • I don't think you have any clue why people hate Sony. They hate it because it is a huge company? That's not a reason to hate something. Their may be some things that they do as a huge company...like anti-comeptition things...but that isn't because of their size, it is because of their business practices. And point B...what the hell? I mean, comparing game quality is one thing, but comparing the average of all the games is absolutely daft. Both have good games...PS2 has more games, so even if you argue
        • PART ONE: Big Companies.

          I don't think you have any clue why people hate Sony. They hate it because it is a huge company? That's not a reason to hate something.

          That depends on who you ask. Big companies are the source of a lot of the problems we face as a culture these days, centering the power of many into the hands of a few.

          Their may be some things that they do as a huge company...like anti-comeptition things...but that isn't because of their size, it is because of their business practices.

          And, in
  • If you catch a lot of flack for hearing how nintendo is just for kids, get one of these.

    http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?products_id=604 1& lsaid=322441

    One of the features
    - Contains Sound-Chip imitating roar of the chainsaw when vibrates(!)

  • Mature content (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MilenCent ( 219397 ) <johnwh AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday December 15, 2004 @03:19PM (#11096179) Homepage
    From the article:

    Which is more mature - GTA San Andreas or Animal Crossing? I bet that nearly every single one of you would say GTA but I disagree with all of you. Yes, even you. Animal Crossing is a far more mature game in many ways.

    This is the most insightful thing in the article (which contains some errors -- Nintendo didn't develop the Power Glove, it was just available for their system).

    The definition of maturity has become somewhat clouded, what with the MPAA's and the ESRB's ludicrous rating systems. They have caused people to equate violent and sexual content with maturity, which is foolish.

    The point of those systems isn't to say that these elements are mature, but that the viewer/player should be of at least this maturity level before being exposed to them. Which itself is awfully condesending to the consumer, but is at least less stupid than the common assumption.

    Maturity is not what kinds of objectionable content you put in your work. It is an outlook, a way of being sure of yourself despite what you see, a tendency to look out for others before yourself, the ability to behave rationally, respectfully, thoughtfully. Judge it this way, and I can name thirty-year-olds who might not be considered worthy of playing Grand Theft Auto.

    But Animal Crossing rewards all those attributes listed above, while many things in the GTA games, despite all their considerable design strengths, do much to tear them down.

    And that is why it's a much more mature game, cartoon animals and all, than GTA.
    • Indeed, my favourite phrase in the article is:

      "Many people would disagree on purely visual terms. GTA is all dirty streets, fast cars and big guns. Animal Crossing is about animals living in a cartoon village. But surely forming judgements based on visual elements alone is intrinsically immature?"

      Check, and mate.

      (Other attacks against Nintendo are open to debate)
    • I don't have any mod points today, so I'm glad that you've already reached a score of 5. Great comment.
  • i know this is old discussion but ill tell u all why nintendo is going to die the only important thing sony did, the ONLY, was taking videogames out of our kids bedroom and making them stilish enough to make them a home entertainment device... thats it... its not the extremely powerfull device they dide, its not that their games have mature looks while nintendo looks childish, nothing of that... the big issue is that u look to a playstation u see a home entertainment device that you, a full grown man, will
    • Oh, I competely agree with everything you say. But doesn't that just beautifully describe the current status of the human race?

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