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Role Playing (Games)

World of Warcraft PvP Ranking System Detailed 78

Posted by Zonk from the talk-about-wow dept.
The official World of Warcraft site has details on the Player vs. Player ranking system which they'll be rolling out to the game. It gives meaning to the PvP concept with tangible, and impressive, rewards for engaging in combat with other players, a leader board, and little things like an officer's title. From the article: "As we have mentioned before, when you kill other players or aggressive PvP-enabled non-player characters (NPCs) in your level range, you will receive an honorable kill. All your honorable kills for a week are then calculated to give you an honor score for that week, which then translates into an honor ranking. This honor ranking carries with it titles and material rewards, and eventually, officer status and other perks."
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World of Warcraft PvP Ranking System Detailed More

World of Warcraft PvP Ranking System Detailed

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  • This'll help stop the higher level horde players from ripping through lower levelled areas, which gets annoying pretty damned fast. Blizzard, when their servers are up, have done a pretty damned good job with this game, I have to say.
    • I unfortunately think you are overly optimistic.

      I somehow doubt this will prevent certain high level players from getting their kicks out of killing lowbies.
    • you make it sound like the alliance in its entirety is completely innocent of doing that very same thing.

      I've lost count of how many times my 28 level shaman has been gutted by level 40-60 alliance in hillsbrad, windshear, and ashenvale. In fact, there has only been 2 times when I came within talking distance to a high-level alliance (both were pallies) and wasn't murdered instantly. real cool! pat yerself on the back!

  • Not what I was hoping for. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Spykk ( 823586 ) on Thursday March 10, 2005 @05:09AM (#11897836)
    It doesn't matter so much now that I am approaching level 60, but I had hoped the honor system would function as a deterrent for people killing players half their level. It seems that no penalties will be introduced for dishonorable kills. If anything, this system will only exacerbate the problem. Large groups of players roaming about killing soloers will no doubt be the norm as the benefits for high honor seem very nice. If this system changes anything, it certainly won't be making things any more honorable. On the contrary, expect to be farmed like mobs once this goes live.

    • Re:Not what I was hoping for. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NexusTw1n ( 580394 ) on Thursday March 10, 2005 @05:54AM (#11897949) Journal
      It's obvious the honour system is designed to stop quest griefing - keeping npc quest givers or vendors permanently dead so players can't peacefully quest.

      It isn't designed to stop the slaughter of players, because that is what Blizzard intended to happen on PVP servers. If you don't like ganking, play on a PVE server.

      I don't understand why so many people complain about high level players killing low level players - surely that is half the point of being bigger than everybody else?

      I play on a PVE server, because I've played enough PVP muds to know that every game like this is ruled by kids with tons of free time, or the unemployed. They will kill anyone they can, whenever they can.

      Playing PVP muds casually after work always means sticking with a large group for safety, or sneaking about doing quests hoping the bigger players don't notice me. I correctly assumed WoW wouldn't break this rule.

      The only difference in WoW between PVP and PVE servers, is that ganking and corpse camping and general abuse of opposing factions is allowed and frankly pretty much encouraged by Blizzard on PVP but not PVE.
      PVE still has player vs player combat, but it is honourable because you choose when and where to do it and you can't jump anyone who doesn't want to be attacked.

      The fact that dishonour doesn't count against you when killing low level players, the fact there is a sticky on the BB stating that Corpse camping is perfectly acceptable shows that ganking is exactly what Blizzard intended to happen on PVP servers.

      Which is why those of us who want to play for fun and relaxation, not spend hours getting angry and frustrated at bullying, have chosen Player Vs Enviroment with its optional PVP system.

      • Re:Not what I was hoping for. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by j0nb0y ( 107699 ) <jonboy300NO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Thursday March 10, 2005 @09:51AM (#11898409) Homepage
        It isn't designed to stop the slaughter of players, because that is what Blizzard intended to happen on PVP servers. If you don't like ganking, play on a PVE server.
        My issue is that when I decided to play on a PVP server on day 1, Blizzard had stated that the honor system would be put in RSN, and that killing lower level players would give you dishonor. Now, three months later, the honor system still isn't in, and it is revealed that you never get dishonor for killing other players. Oh well. I'm 56 now, and I'll be 60 by the time the honor system hits. Anyone who won't be 60 by then should move to a PvE server, because leveling from 50 - 60 will be pretty much impossible. The PVP honor system will use the same color system that PVE uses, so level 50 players will be green to level 60 players. So if you're running a lvl 50 char around trying to get xp, you're going to get ganked constantly.
        • >Anyone who won't be 60 by then should move to a PvE server, because leveling from 50 - 60 will be pretty much impossible

          This really doesn't make much sense, as I have found, the higher you go, the more you need other party members to complete quests. I suppose you *COULD* solo, but that's not a lot of fun and it takes a lot of work to complete high level quests solo.

          I've been questing for the last couple of weeks in Stranglethorn Vale (for those of you who don't play, it's basically PvP Anarchy). I
          • Strangethorn Vale is easily the most ganktastic zone in the game, in my opinion, with Hillsbrad following a close second.

            As far as the questing stuff goes, it's possible to solo most everything but the instances. I just hit 53, and I've easily soloed 98% of the non-instance game.

          • If you are questing in STV, you really are nowhere close to lvl 50.

            The higher level areas will have groups of lvl 60's running around just as well as your group, and it's possible that they use teamspeak. The other fun thing is that there could be a raid of lvl 60 people sitting around ganking players that are trying to get into BRD / BRS

            I chose PvE on purpose, since it doesn't mean that PvP is completely dead... it just doesn't exist when I don't want it to. I'd rather not deal with the hassle. There

        • Actually, one of the big comments that Blizzard did during the final open beta was that the dishonor system had been abandoned because it was hard if not impossible to program a dishonor system that couldn't be abused.

          More specifically, if you have a dishonor system the low level characters can hang around a higher level enemy waiting for their pray to become weak before attacking and the higher level guy can do nothing because of dishonor. There are ways to solve this problem but solving it causes other s
          • This is the correct answer. Dishonor in connection with human players is impossible. If introduced, such a system would cause even more mischief due to the various exploits that just can't be avoided. Killing a lowbe is solitary 'fun', even the biggest asshole won't assume that he won bragging rights for that. On the other hand, it's quite possible for 5 -11 players to kill one guy. To 'show them high lvls' is much more rewarding than what grieving could possibly do for you. There just is no way to do this
          • More specifically, if you have a dishonor system the low level characters can hang around a higher level enemy waiting for their pray to become weak before attacking and the higher level guy can do nothing because of dishonor. There are ways to solve this problem but solving it causes other similar problems instead.

            I believe that there are still possible technical solutions for a high vs. low honor system. Depending on the level difference and what color the lowbie is to you then there could be a system

      • Because the twits that would gank people only half their levels do it to the NPCs that are half their level.

        Sorry but the dishonor system needs to have teeth or this continued behaviour is going to ruin the game for many people. On a RP server there are raids by level 50-60s into newbie areas all the time! Ganking the NPCs which prevents players who cannot hope to challenge these losers.

        As for the issue about why people complain about ganking people half their level and such. Mainly because for all the

        • Blizzard is no different than any other company, they have no end game and they plan to cover for it by relying on PvP.

          I keep hearing the term "endgame" when applied to MMO(RP)G's, (usually in PvP discussions like this), and I can't help but wonder what people are looking for as an "endgame". The whole point of an MMOG is to keep the subscription revenue flowing. If there is an endgame, then once that is achieved, why keep subscribing? I'm not saying that the endgame concept is impossible, though. I

        • Get your thousands of other players to FIGHT BACK. You're not alone on WoW you know. Just because you chose to solo through the game and pretend you're playing single player doesn't mean you can't get help if you want to look for it.

          Show some effort people.
    • I'm a level 39 mage (one more level and I don't have to take the bus anymore) and I routinely solo. I'm already killed quite often by wandering players that just have too much time on thier hands.

      I've been waiting for Blizz to implement their promised honor/dishonor system so that ?? people would leave me alone, now it seems that I will "be farmed like mobs" because of the bonuses that ganking me now gives to people.

      I can even see the higher level players power-honoring some medium characters since there
      • Disclaimer: I'm not in any way taking a shot at the parent poster. This just seemed like an appropriate point to jump in on the discussion.

        The first question that comes to my mind is, what do you think the concept of PvP is if not this?

        In some ways it almost seems a little silly to me to implement PvP in a game like WoW, because the players who really want to play PvP aren't the same kinds of people who want to play a game like WoW.

        I see people posting in this thread saying, in essence: "This
        • To a PvP player, the threat of player violence at any time isn't the end of the fun -- it's just the start of it!

          Maybe we just have different definitions of fun, then.

          Being on guard at any time because someone can come and pick a fight with you can be fun, IF there is any chance of a fair fight.

          Being on guard at any time because a level 60 rogue can suddenly pop out of stealth at any time, kill your lower level in 2 shots with NO chance of defense, leading you to spend the next 5 minutes walking back to
        • Problem is, WoW puts a lot more importance on that little number next to your name--your level--than it does on a player's ingenuity. I run a mage, so I can't speak for other classes, but my chance to hit an opponent even four levels higher than me is about 25%. No amount of brainpower or trickery can compensate for that.
          • Fair enough.

            I'd suggest that the design flaw would then be more in how level-based things are. A level 60 character trying to jump on a level 40 character is obviously going to have a big advantage, but the fight shouldn't be unwinnable (assuming the game in question allows a level 60 to attack a level 40, which it does.)

            • It would also take away a lot of the incentive to get to level 60 in the first place. From Blizzard's perspective, it would also let people do everything in PvE in a shorter amount of time and thus cut subscription revenues.
              • Honestly, I doubt it. As long as there is ANY advantage to being higher, plenty of people will do it. As a small example, witness the number of level 90+ characters in Diablo 2 despite the fact that you could easily finish all of the game's "content" by about level 60 if you were of a mind to.

                There's no reason you couldn't keep PvE pretty level based and make PvP less so, either.
  • Sounds like an excuse for virtual violence! What is our world coming to?
    .
    .
    .
    I'll be on Boulderfist

    --

    This is not a sig in the mississippi, it's a sig in denial.

  • Dishonorable Kills layer versus player battles are always best when played out between opposing forces of equal level. Thus, our system creates incentives to attack foes around your level. And it also does not reward those who kill players far below their level. If the player or PvP-enabled NPC you kill is trivial (i.e. gray to you), then you won't get an Honorable Kill. In fact, if you kill an NPC who is not PvP-enabled or who is PvP-enabled and trivial, you will gain a Dishonorable Kill. This exacts a pe

  • We will see.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Thursday March 10, 2005 @05:56AM (#11897958) Journal
    There are a few problems WoW, its main goal is to get people preped for a endgame instances and Battlegrounds.

    Basically you try for better armor/weapons (or do the same instances 1000 times waiting for a drop) on the same instances...

    Then you goto Battlegrounds, and fight for better armor/weapons...

    The only cookie in the game is the weapons and instances? Theres nothing beyond it, theres no real indepth RPG factor to the game. (Ok, some of the quests are entertaining, and a little RPG'ish)..

    And the new PvP system has a few bugs, you get jumped by a 50 and you attack back you get dishonor? A lone 60 attacks a group of 50s and get dishonor? What happens when you dont play for a week or 2, you loose rank? What if you where doing instances? Too many issues still on PvP not explained.

    Also currently, the Alliance outnumbers most servers 2/1, my server Bloodhoof is 10K Alliance vs 5K horde. What happens when Battlegrounds starts and its a limit of 200 vs 200? Alot of Alliance wont be able to play. That is my favorite, since currently Alliance raids towns with more people than can defend. Blizzard seems to want to stop all town raiding and move people to Battlegrounds, since its a dedicated server. Last time Alliance attacked our Horde city of Origmmar, they crashed the server. WTG. :)

    While the graphics and gameplay is fun, the gameplay is locked into "fight, fight, heal some, fight" there isnt anything other than fighting . Farming is just fighting monsters for drops, same difference.

    In SWG you can build a house, build things, put in it, trophies of sorts. But you have a private area, same with Anarchy Online. WoW has no such thing, its bascially, you, and a bank to store some stuff.

    I was hoping for more RPG than hack and slash, while fun, gets old. I have lots of friends who came here from City of Heros burnt out, what happens when you realize you do the same thing over and over? Nothing, you move to the next MMORPG.

    One of the Massive online games "Second Life" actually lets you build things, the flip side, you can build WAY too much, and less of the fun game. Its more social, you build, chat, play games (triva/etc), but no RPG hack and slash.. I think SIM's is about middle, but the tasks are a little stupid, and you feel too cartoonish.

    I really want to see a game that includes both, the building aspect, the fighting aspect, the trophies, the content. I've been following www.mmorpg.com on newer games to see if anything is close.

    WoW PvP is going to be the make it or break it for Blizzard, if they dont offer something for people to enjoy they will lose people to the new MMORPG's coming out. They have newer game engines, have new ideas, Space combat, Car combat, new D&D games, Matrix online, list goes on... so much stuff to keep people busy, 6 months before you figure out if the game has anything left to offer...

    I know, i've spent way too much time playing WoW, more than most games in the past, I've been level 60 for awhile, leader of a guild (Since our leader left for a "Leet" guild.). Going on high end instances, about a month away from all our avereage guys making 60. Just in time for Battlegrounds, or limited raid parties.

    I think Battlegrounds is going to be the saving grace for Blizzard, if it sucks, people are going to leave.
    • ...In SWG you can build a house...

      The Sims is that a way. -->

    • Re:We will see.. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Wildclaw ( 15718 )
      There are lots of things to do in WoW. First let me mention the four core values that drive most people playing MMORPGs

      Explorer/Achiver/Socializer/Killer

      Most people don't exclusivly belong to one group but like do some of each. There are even tests you can do on the internet to find out how much of each group you belong to.

      Explorers probably have it the best in WoW. There are lots of details in the world of warcraft. Blizzard has done a great job adding small details everywhere. The huge amount of quests

      • Achievers are probably those least satisfied with WoW. This is the group that contains the most powergamers and by now most of them should probably have atleast one character at level 60. The reason achievers aren't happy with WoW is the same reason WoW is popular. WoW is far from the grind that games like Everquest/FF XI are. It is possible for casual gamers to reach the max level in WoW. Achievers despise this because they want to be better than the casual gamer because they spend more time in the game.

    • And the new PvP system has a few bugs, you get jumped by a 50 and you attack back you get dishonor? A lone 60 attacks a group of 50s and get dishonor?

      That's EXACTLY why you aren't penalized for dishonorable kills. At all. All it does is tell you that it was a dishonorable kill, you don't 'get dishonor,' as you say.

      What happens when you dont play for a week or 2, you loose rank? What if you where doing instances?

      Yes, you lose rank. If you aren't playing at all, you certainly shouldn't be higher ranked
  • I think this PVP system is terrible. It rewards how much you play, rather than how good you are. There are people that play this game 40+ hours a week. I have a job and other obligations. On a good WoW week, I may play 30 hours. 15 hours is more common for me. I don't expect to ever get anywhere near the higher ranks.

    The other problem is that this sytems outright encourages ganking. Once this patch goes in, it's going to be very difficult to level a character from 50 - 60, because there are going to
    • I only expect the Ganking squads of 60s that you describe to work on PvP servers. On PvE servers, we don't have that sort of problem.

      If it does become a problem, make sure that when you head out, you head out to less populated areas with a large group.
      • Yeah, this obviously won't be a problem on PvE servers. My main issue is that when I decided to play on a PvP server, Blizzard had said that an honor system was coming RSN, and that it would be dishonorable to kill lower level players. Now, three months later, there's still no honor system, and it's announced that there is never dishonor for killing other players. Hey! This isn't what I signed up for. And I'm lvl 56, so I have no desire to reroll on a PvE server. Oh well, I'll be 60 soon, so it won't
        • The people who say "stop whining and go to a PvE server instead" don't take into account that quite a few people are in guilds that moved from another MMORPG and don't want to give up being able to play with their mates just because the guild leaders chose a PvP server to play on.
          • And then the real question is asked... How do you gank someone who is in a guild? They should have atleast a couple of friends around at most times.

            And if you really don't have fun playing the game because your guild requires that you play on a PvP server, maybe you should consider joining a better guild that likes PvE more.

            OK, that sounded a little trollish, but seriously, Blizzard can't be expected to change the rules of the PvP server just because your guild plays on it.

            Also as I mentioned in a previo
            • When your guild mainly consists of higher level players because you just don't have as much time to put into a game due to work/RL commitments you're not likely to be hanging around the same areas.

              I've not objection to making new friends in a game, but when you've been playing with the same bunch of people for over 2 years you don't want to just say goodbye to them :)

              Not in the least trollish sounding, but the manual did say that there would be repercussions for people who got their kicks from ganking low
              • The chicken idea was the best one I have heard so far. Guaranteed to annoy gankers while not making it possible for multiple low levels to grief a higher level character.

                Hurting the ego is much more effective than hurting stats/reputation.
          • yes, obviously people that went on PVP servers *because* of the rules should yield to ones that moved there *despite* them. That seems perfectly just. What do I care for your guild?

            • Re:some problems (Score:2, Informative)

              by malf-uk ( 456583 )
              "Among any enemies as bitter as the Horde and Alliance, there is honor. If you flaunt this honor and engage in objectionable PvP play such as killing new players vastly inferior to you in level, or killing essential non-combat NPCs such as flight masters or quest givers, you will earn dishonor"

              Those were the PvP rules stated in Blizzard's own manual.

              I was just saying that some people, myself included, are on PvP server mainly because that's where their mates are not out of a particularly strong desire t

              • But then that still leaves us with the problem of higher level players getting attacked by groups of lower level gray players. Under no circumstances should someone get dishonor for killing someone who attacks them, no matter what the level difference. Perhaps if you received dishonor for killing a gray PC/NPC *only* if you initiated combat, not vice versa...
              • I wasn't aware of those rules. Of course, this changes the situtation. Well, the problem with dishonor as I see it are the vast number of exploits that come to mind, regardless the model that is brought up. I guess they (blizzard) went a little overboard when accepting what surely was just a concept for the manual. The underlying issue is probably that computers are not quite fit to distribute justice and this is what any dishonor system would be about.
    • Looks to me from the article like although you won't get dishonour from ganking lower-level players, nor will you get honour, not unless the player is of similar or higher level to you. So I would say that it is more of an issue that level 60s will not be able to accrue any honour (thus rewards) at all!
  • But DAoC STILL has WoW beat in this (and most other departments)...
  • I'm only attacked by alliance characters 10+ levels above me. The only plausable explaination is that my level 28 Orc Shaman is seen as an enormous threat by level 60 elf rogues.

    boy howdy I just can't wait for this new patch to go through and give all level 50-60 elf rogues a reason to scour contested areas in the search of rewarded PVP. There's a name for us level 28 shamans: Target of Oportunity.

  • This is frustrating (Score:3, Insightful)

    by An Onerous Coward ( 222037 ) on Thursday March 10, 2005 @01:52PM (#11901101) Homepage
    I've been resisting the desire to move over to an RP server for a long while now. One reason is that I know a couple of people on the PvP server I'm on right now. They play much more than I do, and have been sending me nifty stuff.

    The other reason was that--real soon now--Blizzard would be implementing an honors system. I assumed that once it was installed, there would be some sort of punishment for people who ganked lower-level players.

    That's what I want out of the honor system. Not epic armor, or ph4t l00t, or the chance to call myself "Grand Marshal" (I can do that anyways, thankyouverymuch). All I want out of it is a simple change in the game mechanics that provides a disincentive for high-level players to beat up on low-level players.

    It looks like that's not going to happen, and that I don't have a temperament that enjoys the sort of crap being pulled on PvP servers. So I think it's time to put my characters into retirement, and move to an RP or RL* server.

    * Real Life server. Much harder to farm for gold, the permadeath rules are worrying, and you never get an epic mount. But arguably the play is richer and more rewarding, and the server has zero latency and phenomenal uptime.

  • Effects on WOW Predicted (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cbuskirk ( 99904 ) on Thursday March 10, 2005 @02:30PM (#11901758)
    1. You will almost always be grouping on a PVP server. Once this is in place it will be very hard to solo past level 30. Players will have incentive to kill you so you will want to be in a group to minimize this, and maximize you ability to kill players of the opposing faction.

    2. Despite what anyone says, I believe that Blizzard is correct that this will decrease ganking of low level players. There will now be risk/reward in PVP. I don't run around killing level 10 creature because it is not worth my time. My time is better spent killing those creatures that can reward me for my kill with money or an item I can use. The same will apply with the honor system. I will be rewarded for seeking out players of my level to kill not those who are lower level. As for those players who still gank. Well lets just say that there are small children of all ages who need to kill weak people to feel big and no amount of dishonor would stop them anyways.

    3. This will hold on to hardcore players. If Blizzard loses the hardcore players they loose their long term revenue stream. All the talk about casual players is well and good but they wont be around for the long haul. This is the kind of compelling ladder system that will keep those competitive players sticking around paying their $15 dollars a month for years to come. If they don't stick around the game will die out.
  • kill ratio would be a good start.

    I played an all-pvp mud called "GroundZero" back in the day. Basically a 25x25 grid with some walls, random weapons everywhere, and two teams. You kill each other, then you kill each other some more. (There were some other little things but basically you just pick up an M-16 or USPS-Issue-Standard-Assault-Rifle, or electron cannon, chain saw, flame thrower, grenades, whatever, find some ammo if applicable, and hunt down players on the other team.) The ranks in the game were

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